Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[z0ttel]

I've just found this - some interesting statistics about the DCS:WW2 KS project:

 

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/#chart-daily

 

I hope, it hasn't been posted yet ...

Edited September 9, 2013 by z0ttel

[BFsSmurfy]

Needs a lot more pictures of the work they`ve done on the 190 pit imo, perhaps they can`t show them, images please.

[Rjel]

Steam sale today, you will get 70% off the P51 and others....

Wow! I came within [ ] this much of ordering it yesterday after I installed DSC World. I've had the A-10C for quite a while. I've really had a hankering to try the P-51 for quite a while after reading some of the comments here. Guess I got lucky this time.

 

As to the other part of this, I'm still undecided about Oleg and Luthier's new enterprise. It has zero to do about hatred, holding grudges or any other childish crap but more about wanting to see solid info about what is planned. A few planes listed and map ideas really isn't telling me much at this point.

 

There are a couple of guys here who need to grow up. If you absolutely loved CLoD, great. If you want to have Luthier's baby, good for you. But this constant drivel you post is tiresome. It was tiresome last December when this forum opened. You know why you're here and why you post like you do. So does everyone else. Get on board with the subject matter here (meaning BoS) or go away.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Rjel

[Uufflakke]

Till sofar there is not that much enthusiasm for the new video for a brand new project in my opinion. 7 comments in 3 hours time and 5 visitors in that thread at the moment.

If they want to convince the doubters to back the project they really should come with promising WIP videos and images of DCS WWII.

Promotional talk is fine but it is all about the product.

 

Panem et circenses/ хлеб и зрелища

[Bearcat]

For me its not about trees being collidable, its not about the number of aircraft.  Whats holding me back are the managers of the team.  I just cant see giving my money to anything that Ilya or Oleg have anything to do with.  They were both managers of CloD and that is what killed that product.  Bad management.  

 

  Its nothing personal against them, Im sure they are chums to talk to or be around, but all I have to show from them is failure.  Im sure the coders they have are talented. but bad management can tank any project no matter what it is.  

 

I wont be kicking in for this starter, but if they show that they can make something decent, ontime, and relatively bug free, Ill pick it up then.   

 

I find it hilarious that a large number of people are doubting BoS because of 1C, but not DCS:WWII for ILya and Oleg.  here is a hint 1C didn't code Clod.  They just just financed it, until its failure was to much to bear as a company business wise.   If people would listen to the truth I suspect there would be a much different tone about that new project.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Pretty much my take.. except for the kicking in part .. I am willing to kick in even though I felt burned by CoD... I am willing to give this team a second chance.. actually a 3rd chance.. IL2/PF was the first chance  (SCOOOOOOOOOOORRRREEE!!) CoD was the second chance .. and while it was initially a bust.. it is not bad now and while some may say that is in spite of it's creators I tend to look at the original creators when I consider any modded product...

 

While I certainly understand many of the sentiments expressed, I can't say that all I have seen from those guys is failure - certainly Cliffs would fit into that category - at least the initial release. IL2 and then FB and PF, I would say were far from failures. I mean IL2 pretty much set the bar for many, many years in a WWII combat sim.

 

I tend to be a glass half full kind of guy, so I am positive and hopeful for their new venture with ED - it does ease my mind somewhat that ED will be overseeing it - no way are they going to let a title release under their name, that is not up to their standards. And I am even way more positive at this point for BOS, and very excited,  after all we have seen much of what they have done to date, obviously it will live up to 777's standards, and ROF is a great sim.

 

But I sure understand folks on the fence, or want to take a wait and see position with this new affiliation with those guys and ED. I did contribute to the Kick Starter, namely to help support another possible WWII combat flight sim.

 

Good times guys, good times!

 

This... is even closer to my take...

 

I agree with dburnette, the IL-2 franchise set new standards for flight sims an a lot of us here have likely spent countless hours enjoying the series. Yes CloD was a big disappointment but the previous titles gave me huge value for money so in that respect Oleg and co. are in credit in my ledger. I find it odd that all the blame is being heaped on Oleg and Ilya for CloD yet nobody wants to hold 1C accountable for any blame at all, they were all involved so surely must all shoulder some blame?

 

Not only that .. whatever TF did.. without CoD it would nopt have been possible.. just as the great work of TD would not exist without IL2.

 

TD readily acknowledge their debt to Oleg for creating the base that allowed them to keep modding the game to the extent it has been. TF feel the same way about CloD however it was mismanaged which everybody does recognise. Despite the past I'm willing to take a punt that lessons have been learned about trying to do too much. The fact that they're using a solid code base such as DCS suggests that maybe they have. I'm not blindly following them but am willing to provide backing as I know the final quality will have to be good or ED won't let it be released. And having 5 iconic birds done at the P51 level is too good an opportunity to pass up for me. If you have specific gripes about Oleg / Ilya I would suggest you follow the moderator's requests to take it elsewhere.

 

+1

 

What was that what I said about people holding personal grudges? Do you really need to post your hate drivel? You seem to have zero clue that this time the engine is already there, so Luthier won`t be the one to ruin it if that is what you mean.

You clearly have a personal agenda so please go back to general discussion  forcing people to preorder premiium packages of planes you haven`t even seen.

 

Oh my.... hate drivel? C'mooon... is all that really necessary? Really?!!

 

Another of those one side die hard fans which will do everything to sodomize something which they think is in the "other tent".....you surelly kept the tension going here...

 

Im sick now...

 

Well I am sicker than you after reading this.. sodomize ... really??!!

 

 

 

Look why don't we just stow all the drama and keep this ship sailin smoothly K?

[Jochen]

Abend beisammen    Hope you guys are behaving in here. Great to have a WWII flightsim for this winter and one for next autumn (hopefully).

[JG27_Chivas]

New Video here....

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/593803

 

 

Nice video, though i dont think people still unsure about the project are going to be swayed by it.

What we need is videos and pictures of the actual project, maybe there is more to come yet...if not then i think maybe the kickstarter has been a bit premature.

 

All we have is thoughts and ideas, while that maybe good enough for people who know DCS and are already interested in WW2 flight sims, its not going to be enough for a more varied crowd of possible customers.

 

Hope Luthier has more up his sleeve.

How could kickstarter possibly be premature?   Kickstarter wasn't designed for people that have already built their product.   Its for people that need financial help to build the product.   Its not possible for Luthier to show a video of a product, that hasn't been built yet.   We are being asked to support a new WW2 series from the combined development crews of DCS World, RRG Studios, and Flying Legends.

 

Flying Legends/DCS are responsible for a number of first class works, and Oleg/Luthier are responsible for developing the best combat flight sim ever in IL-2 1946.   They tried to build a bigger and better game engine for their next series, but they took to long to finish it, and lost their financing before it could be finished.  They deserved alot of bad press, for taking soooo long, and releasing an unfinished product, but that didn't mean they wanted to release it too soon, or that it would be a bad game engine when it was finished.  Team Fusion is currently doing an outstanding job proving the COD game engines potential, without any help.   That said, Teams  Fusions work would not be possible without the years of hard work already done by its developers.   This time the developer is building a new series with an established/improvable  game/graphic engine, and proven partners....what's not to like.

 

That said, there are no guarantees,  especially in a small genre, that's expensive, and time consuming to build.  Time will tell if the community is large enough to support these projects, and with enough vision to see their potential.  

[Rjel]

That said, there are no guarantees,  especially in a small genre, that's expensive, and time consuming to build.  Time will tell if the community is large enough to support these projects, and with enough vision to see their potential.  

 

I hope you aren't implying that it was the end users lack of vision that caused CLod to fail. I think a lot of us have the vision to see a product with a good to better chance to succeed as witnessed by the support BoS has received here. I need a little bit more vision of the new DSC project before I'll buy in. Right now it's really only based on ideas and a couple of planes already made by others. I really hope it all comes to pass but I'll reserve judgment at this point.

[Jochen]

Right now it's really only based on ideas and a couple of planes already made by others. I really hope it all comes to pass but I'll reserve judgment at this point.

 

Those (P-51D, Fw.190D) are already 2 planes made to the highest flightsim standards today though. It'll be a study sim with Normandy sandbox to play in.

I think in Il-2: BoS you put more emphasis on immersion into the world; in DCS: WWII 1944 more on the plane models.

Even without many sandbox W.I.P. pictures it's still an exciting project and worth a pledge.

I'm going to be playing both, and hope eventually all studios will combine forces for something never seen before (nothing wrong with dreaming).

Edited September 10, 2013 by Jochen

[Rjel]

Those (P-51D, Fw.190D) are already 2 planes made to the highest flightsim standards today though. It'll be a study sim with Normandy sandbox to play in.

I think in Il-2: BoS you put more emphasis on immersion into the world; in DCS: WWII 1944 more on the plane models.

Even without many sandbox W.I.P. pictures it's still an exciting project and worth a pledge.

I'm going to be playing both, and hope eventually all studios will combine forces for something never seen before (nothing wrong with dreaming).

I agree about the P-51. I've been playing around with it this evening, tt's a great looking model. Like I said, I do hope their project comes to be, it's just that I'm just not sold yet. I'll see how much info is presented throughout this month before I jump onboard.

[Jochen]

I agree about the P-51. I've been playing around with it this evening, tt's a great looking model. Like I said, I do hope their project comes to be, it's just that I'm just not sold yet. I'll see how much info is presented throughout this month before I jump onboard.

 

Welcome on-board. I'll be flying BoS this winter. We're a relative minority in gaming land, so let's fight together.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

How could kickstarter possibly be premature?   Kickstarter wasn't designed for people that have already built their product.   Its for people that need financial help to build the product.   Its not possible for Luthier to show a video of a product, that hasn't been built yet.   We are being asked to support a new WW2 series from the combined development crews of DCS World, RRG Studios, and Flying Legends.

 

Flying Legends/DCS are responsible for a number of first class works, and Oleg/Luthier are responsible for developing the best combat flight sim ever in IL-2 1946.   They tried to build a bigger and better game engine for their next series, but they took to long to finish it, and lost their financing before it could be finished.  They deserved alot of bad press, for taking soooo long, and releasing an unfinished product, but that didn't mean they wanted to release it too soon, or that it would be a bad game engine when it was finished.  Team Fusion is currently doing an outstanding job proving the COD game engines potential, without any help.   That said, Teams  Fusions work would not be possible without the years of hard work already done by its developers.   This time the developer is building a new series with an established/improvable  game/graphic engine, and proven partners....what's not to like.

 

That said, there are no guarantees,  especially in a small genre, that's expensive, and time consuming to build.  Time will tell if the community is large enough to support these projects, and with enough vision to see their potential.  

 

 

Chivas, did you see the star citizen kickstarter or other game kickstarters? have Luthier, Oleg and the team done nothing towards the spit, 190 or the 109? they must have more to show than what we have seen so far, the kickstarter funds are not the only backing they want or have.

 

I said they need to reach out to other people, not just the usual crowd and to do that they to show more than what they have so far, the timing of the kickstarter is premature to me, but i think the timing had nothing to do with the start of the war but to to do with something much closer to home here, you dont have to be a genius to work it out.

[SOLIDKREATE]

Chivas, did you see the star citizen kickstarter or other game kickstarters? have Luthier, Oleg and the team done nothing towards the spit, 190 or the 109? they must have more to show than what we have seen so far, the kickstarter funds are not the only backing they want or have.

 

I said they need to reach out to other people, not just the usual crowd and to do that they to show more than what they have so far, the timing of the kickstarter is premature to me, but i think the timing had nothing to do with the start of the war but to to do with something much closer to home here, you dont have to be a genius to work it out.

 

 

I have to agree. The Fw-190D-9 and the P-51D were are already made so nothing new was done. I would like to see the other planes modeled and showcased before I plop down some money I may never see again. And if they are to do Europe in WWII, there are a lot of planes and maps they need to build over the next 2-3 years before we see an alpha. And that's just a small part of game creation.

 

 

On a side note I think they should get in touch with some airshow promoters and set up a demo truck so other aviation enthusiasts can get into our genre.

[JG27_Chivas]

Chivas, did you see the star citizen kickstarter or other game kickstarters? have Luthier, Oleg and the team done nothing towards the spit, 190 or the 109? they must have more to show than what we have seen so far, the kickstarter funds are not the only backing they want or have.

 

I said they need to reach out to other people, not just the usual crowd and to do that they to show more than what they have so far, the timing of the kickstarter is premature to me, but i think the timing had nothing to do with the start of the war but to to do with something much closer to home here, you dont have to be a genius to work it out.

 It doesn't take a genius to figure out they need the kickstarter monies "now" to hire more talented people.  More talented people working on the project will garner more aircraft/map details/features done in the year or so before release.  Plus all the experience gained by those new people, will translates to more things possible in the following years of development.  Its good for the developer, and good for us.   The investment is ridiculously small compared to the possible years of entertainment value.    

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks for the tip off regarding the DCS sale on Steam. Have shelled out for the P-51. At RoF prices its pretty hard to say no. Is the Dora actually available as AI yet or is that one still in the works?

[Skoshi_Tiger]

They broke the halfway mark today. Hope the momentum keeps on over the next 25 days!

 

Even though I'ved owned the P51 since release I've only just started going through the training missions. Even though very procedual it's not too difficult - and theres the start cheat!  

[71st_AH_Hooves]

The 190 is in game a there is also an AI 109 that you can DL.  Though from what Ive heard the 109 is just a P-51 with a 109 skin as far as FM is concerened, but its not advertised to be a true flushed out 109.  Just nice to Dog fight against something other than a mustang.

[Bearcat]

The Dora is available now as AI. I suggest you get into fkying before you try to fight. You will see what I mean.

[Feathered_IV]

That's good news. It'll take some days to download DCS again but I'll look forward to trying it out. The other modules look very attractive at the moment too. The Huey particularly.

[TheBlackPenguin]

I might as well throw in two cents, firstly assigning "blame" on Clod, few if anyone mentions Ubisoft in that mess, and if you follow enough developers they will tell how much influence publishers have in the project. Ubisoft already have had a history of destroying sim under their care beginning with Silent Hunter V and then Clod (remember the epilepsy filter?). So, with this in mind I backed DCS WW2.to let them prove themselves outside of any game publishers sphere.

 

Star Citizen was pretty unique, they were collecting donations before going to Kickstarter and already had enough money to create a nice demo within the Crytek engine which really helped push sales, but no way can DCS WWII follow the same suit exactly, even down to selling llifetime insurance on hulls as an incentive to buy extra content.

 

First time trying out the P-51D, taxiing was a bit of a pain, so simply opened up the throttle and had a quick fly around, enabled guns and had fun strafing all sort of things.

 

Looking forward so much to all these simulations, they will complement each other so well .

[gn728]

I have a ? - not sure how it all works- if they make their 100k , project stays alive, they could, if they wanted, to coninue to fund the project through crowdfunding, not kickstarter, to reach the other stated goals?

[JG27_Chivas]

I have a ? - not sure how it all works- if they make their 100k , project stays alive, they could, if they wanted, to coninue to fund the project through crowdfunding, not kickstarter, to reach the other stated goals?

As far as we know, they still have enough monies to finish the free demo, even if there is no monies coming in from kickstarter.  It just won't be as robust as it might be if they were able to hire more talented people to create more content.   They've passed the half way point in a few days, but it appears the next fifty will be much harder to come by. 

[gn728]

Well for me attention was grabbed a lot more from their projected goals than those videos  i think the more, if anything, they can show from within the game over the next 25 days will help the momentum.

[Zmaj76]

It'll be a study sim with Normandy sandbox to play in.

I think in Il-2: BoS you put more emphasis on immersion into the world; in DCS: WWII 1944 more on the plane models.

Even without many sandbox W.I.P. pictures it's still an exciting project and worth a pledge.

I'm going to be playing both, and hope eventually all studios will combine forces for something never seen before (nothing wrong with dreaming).

 

This ahould be a "sticky" in this topic. Bolded part more than anything. Youv said everything.

[Mac_Messer]

As far as we know, they still have enough monies to finish the free demo, even if there is no monies coming in from kickstarter.  It just won't be as robust as it might be if they were able to hire more talented people to create more content.   They've passed the half way point in a few days, but it appears the next fifty will be much harder to come by. 

Obviously because some people choose to put it down even before it gets off the ground.

Well for me attention was grabbed a lot more from their projected goals than those videos  i think the more, if anything, they can show from within the game over the next 25 days will help the momentum.

Good point. AFAIK they`re already using DCS material for the kickstarter even so maybe they could get ED permission to show some ingame footage. That alone would do some good imo.

This ahould be a "sticky" in this topic. Bolded part more than anything. Youv said everything.

Yes, quite obvious to me. DCSWWII and BoS are not nearly the same fruit yet some people treat DCS as some type of danger for BoS. How do they not get that two very fine sims are coming our way and how lucky simmers are, just baffles me.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Mac_Messer

[Tektolnes]

The next video is going to show EDGE. That should be interesting.

[Zmaj76]

 

Yes, quite obvious to me. DCSWWII and BoS are not nearly the same fruit yet some people treat DCS as some type of danger for BoS. How do they not get that two very fine sims are coming our way and how lucky simmers are, just baffles me.

Exactly. DCS is more like a hardcore sim in terms of FM, DM, CEM, feel of flying...It has very nice fully functional cockpits..but its not a "more massive" MP immersion game like BOS (will be)...OK not to the extent of an old Il2 46 unfortunately but...I mean, in DCS AI can see through clouds and planes can fly through trees...land is dull etc...Then again BOS wouldnt be a match in terms of FM (even though Im sure FM in BOS will be ok, much better than in old IL2) .So I think we will have a 2 completely different producs which are btw settled in different time and theatre of operations....I already preordered BOS and will fund DCS Europe when my next poor payment arrives...that is on 2nd of October...I just cant fund both right away. And BTW, nobody gives a credit to all customers who preordered or backted both sims even though both devs did some....lets say errors in the past....So we still trust them....not like we have a choice hahahah

 

 

The next video is going to show EDGE. That should be interesting.

Oh yes...Luthier realized he will need to show some real stuff not just "tourist postcard videos" with signs "please support me". I mean. Sims are serious business?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Tvrdi

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

What makes you think BOS will be any less of a sim than DCS in FM, DM or feel of flight? sure it wont have clickable cockpits or full start up procedure i agree, but once the engine is running where have you heard it its going to be any less of a sim?

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Yes, I don't see them competing at all, BoS and DCS are different animals, and theres a place for both on my hard drive.

[Matt]

It's a pledge...your card won't be charged until the 5th October ...assuming the target is reached of course.

Yes, i'm aware of that. Thanks for the info though.

[Trooper117]

How anyone could think that DCS WWII would be a better sim than BoS is beyond me... neither title is available yet to compare.

As to clickable cockpits, I've never liked them. Not bad in a study sim where you have time to find and make sure you are clicking the correct control, but in a combat sim where you need split second timing to find that lever or button on screen I found it a hindrance, not a help.

[SYN_Jedders]

Sadly it looks like the battle lines are being drawn again...

 

The whole "My game is better than your game" was bad enough....now we have to listen to "My new game is going to be better than your new game"...

 

I have the ability to enjoy both and could not give a "monkeys f**k" about who thinks theirs is "better"....

[Zmaj76]

How anyone could think that DCS WWII would be a better sim than BoS is beyond me... neither title is available yet to compare.

 

LOL Nobody said that...juts that the two sims would be different in so many ways...Im too not a big fan of clickable cockpits. I mean its nice to have, its cool, but can be difficult to handle in combat. All I said is that flying a P51 in DCS (which I tried now) is somehow harder than flying any prop plane in any other sim. Its more diffficult and feels real. Sure, I already said what I dont like with current DCS engine and that its never intended to be an immersive MP sim.  Maybe this will change with Europe 44? And, you know that all ppl doesnt look for the same things in sims. Ahh yes...I just preordered BOS and DCS Europe 44 will wait till 2nd of October (poor salary for EU and US standards) as someone told me my credit card will withdraw money immediatelly and refund it if project doesnt reach goal.

 

jihaaaaa

Edited September 10, 2013 by Tvrdi

[Jochen]

How anyone could think that DCS WWII would be a better sim than BoS is beyond me... neither title is available yet to compare.

As to clickable cockpits, I've never liked them. Not bad in a study sim where you have time to find and make sure you are clicking the correct control, but in a combat sim where you need split second timing to find that lever or button on screen I found it a hindrance, not a help.

 

That is where a programmable HOTAS or OrbWeaver comes into play. For some flight maneuvers you would want some more control over your plane (tight turns with landing gear doors slightly opened). At least manifold pressure, prop, flaps and trim control. For engine also mixture and carburetor control. But not necessary depending on your skill level and what you want out of a sim.

[Feathered_IV]

I think I'll be needing some sort of box o' sliders and switches if the occulus rift turns out to be the next big thing. 

[ST_ami7b5]

Don't miss live stream tomorrow:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1280-live-stream-il-2-bos-wednesday-september-11th/

Edited September 10, 2013 by ami7b5

[Scarecrow]

Glad to see the DCS title getting some attention over here and that 777 aren't adverse to a competitors product being discussed on their boards. I've kicked into DCS WWII and I prordered BOS. So here is how I see it...

 

1.) BOS and DCS WWII will be different animals, but neither will be superior in the amount of entertainment or the combat experience you'll get. But DCS will be more expensive.

2.) RRG are a 3rd party Dev Team like Belsimtek (who are awsome!!) and they are developing a "period map" and a few more flyables for the map.

3.) RRG wil be subject to the same rigorous QA that ED apply to their own in-house products.

4.) The past is the past and project management on the scale of a flightsim is outwith the capability of 99.99% of the people who post on this board so please lets not argue over it anymore it undermines the entire genre in a time when it looks like things might be getting better for us.

 

I hope that DCS WWII manages to get off the ground in terms of the initial map and plane set allowing further development of a Study sim level WWII combat flight sim.

I can't wait to get into BOS this autum and have a great time flying and then next year get all geeky about the DCS switchology.

 

I have to admit though that 2 and a half years after learning the A10C startup I can't be bothered with cold starts anymore, its fun learning them, but it does get boring eventually.

[BFsSmurfy]

Lots of guessing going on in this thread, lots of un-substantiated rubbish as well. Here`s my take on it all. ED have a very very nicely done P-51 which does feel more involving to fly than any other sim I`ve played, I can`t speak for their jets/choppers because I have zero interest in them. If they pass that realism via their engine onto anything that RRG produces we`ll all be happy. The cockpit for the 190 looks very nice, if the rest of RRGs future work is as good we`ll all be happy.I don`t think they`ll make the same mistakes as before but who knows, that would be guessing.

 

I do know that people judge you on your last job, happens in all walks of life, and perhaps that`s why lots are sitting on the fence, the last job for Mr Shevchenko had was a bit of a disaster and lest we forget 777 loaned them key members of their own team to try and knock it into shape. He virtually disappeared from the forum when the crap hit the fan. Are people doubting their ability to produce a good product..maybe...ED should ensure that they do, so that`s one fear allayed for some. Can they manage the project in a fashion that everyone gets what they`ve paid for, working and of excellent quality...don`t know...you`d hope they learnt from the previous efforts wouldn`t you.

 

I wish them all the best, he`s suffered there`s no doubt about that, he was knocked down but he`s back up and fighting...that shows bollocks. good luck to them. i`ve put money in as it`s a giveaway anyway so not a lot to lose

 

With BoS you have a team with a proven record of getting it right, constant updates and honest answers on the forum. Everyone who has had hands on experience hasn`t had a bad word to say about it, you can`t compare FMs/DMs because we have no ED teamed with RRG content to compare against, that`s fact. People who have flown BoS have all been happy, a fact that most seem to forget when going off on one about a product they have yet to experience.

Edited September 10, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[Trooper117]

I'll certainly sit on that fence until I see a decent product... I'll certainly buy it if they get it off the ground and it proves to be all that it is supposed to be

[Kaenzdhi]

I am a hardcore flight simmer since 1982, and with my little experience , i can safely say that I will not support this project. All my confidence (and my money) in the excellent BOS team.