Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[saf]

Oooh, I'm quoted above!  FWIW, I learned that you can go a bit over 10 minutes at WEP with MW50 before breaking the engine.

Sorry about the quote thing lol.  I have not yet been able to burn my engine in the D9 as my experience is that web is not needed in df with the P51.  I think I seen a max at 11min 30 sec on ED forum.  One thing I have to say though ... either the online P-51 pilots are very brave or very ........ (add your own word) :D

[Chuck_Owl]

Sorry about the quote thing lol.  I have not yet been able to burn my engine in the D9 as my experience is that web is not needed in df with the P51.  I think I seen a max at 11min 30 sec on ED forum.  One thing I have to say though ... either the online P-51 pilots are very brave or very ........ (add your own word) :D

Trust me, Doras got shot down in droves yesterday evening. There's plenty of very competent Mustang pilots out there. In my experience, the P-51 can handle himself very well.

Edited August 7, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[saf]

Trust me, Doras got shot down in droves yesterday evening. There's plenty of very competent Mustang pilots out there. In my experience, the P-51 can handle himself very well.

Your positive response gives light at the end of the tunnel for those of us who do not currently hold the qualities you mentioned (I am aware that DOW server have P-51 pilots with these qualities). I must admit that I feel myself a little more confident in D9 than P-51.

 

You succeed quite well in putting forward that help is always available.

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

[gavagai]

The DCS P-51 decisively out-turns the 190D-9, while the latter has better climb and acceleration.  190 pilots must use wingman tactics to succeed here.

[saf]

The DCS P-51 decisively out-turns the 190D-9, while the latter has better climb and acceleration.  190 pilots must use wingman tactics to succeed here.

Last night before i left the DoW server I saw the D9 got outnumbered as alot of players vent to fly the P-51 - was it on purpose?  This is the first time i have witnessed this, all other nights it has been the otherway around.

 

As the D9 pilots are getting better and better, what I have seen is the unhistorical P-51 getting shot out of the skies like a turkey run.

[DB605]

If the situation would have been different, this could well have happened. Planes were so close to each other in terms of performance. However, in online, it will never be like in late '44/45.

[LukeFF]

If the situation would have been different, this could well have happened. Planes were so close to each other in terms of performance. However, in online, it will never be like in late '44/45.

 

That reminds me of a quote by Hans Dortenmann, which is recorded in Axel Urbanke's book on III./JG54. When he went to evaluate and select new pilots for his unit in September 1944, his remark was, "My god, what are they teaching these guys?" Indeed, victories and success by D-9 units were pretty rare in the real world.

[DB605]

Yeap, there were no "standard" luftwaffe pilots anymore left. Only handful of experten and rest were hopeless cannon fodder.

Dortenmann's D9 victory list is however good example how different things could have been with properly trained, experienced pilots:

 

21.

2.11.1944

12:30 B-17 12./JG 54 GS DQ 1, Engelbertswald, SW of Lingen B-17 (43-37531) of 447 BG, USAAF 22.

6.11.1944

11:04 P-51 12./JG 54 GS GR 1, Epe, 3 km NW Bramsche P-51 (44-14229) of 334 FG, USAAF flown by 1st Lt Walsh, baled out, POW 23.

7.11.1944

15:30 P-47 12./JG 54 GS JQ 1, W of Münster Tempest V of 274 Sqn, RAF flown by F/Sgt Coles, killed 24.

29.12.1944

12:50 Spitfire 12./JG 54 GS JQ, Münster-Handorf area -  25.

13.2.1945

16:56 P-47 12./JG 54 GS QQ 3, Nastätten area S of Nassau P-47 of 22 FS 36 FG, USAAF 26.

13.2.1945

17:00 P-47 12./JG 54 GS PR ?, Weinähr 5 km E of Nassau P-47 (42-74657) of 22 FS 36 FG, USAAF flown by David I Swope, baled out wounded, POW 27.

21.2.1945

17:30 Mustang 11./JG 54 Rheine Mustang of 315 Sqn, RAF 28.

22.2.1945

14:00 P-51 11./JG 54 Farwick NW if Quakenbrück P-51 (44-14747) “Rough Rider” of 383 FS 364 FG, USAAF flown by 1/Lt Ross, baled out wounded, POW 29.

19.3.1945

13:36 P-51 14./JG 26 Rheine-Lingen P-51 of 78 FG, USAAF  30.

19.3.1945

13:37 P-51 14./JG 26 Rheine-Lingen P-51 (44-72407) of 78 FG, USAAF flown by Maj H Downing, baled out, POW 31.

28.3.1945

11:34 Tempest 14./JG 26 5km SW Münster Tempest of 56 Sqn, RAF 32.

31.3.1945

14:46 Auster 3./JG 26 Ludwighausen -  33.

12.4.1945

12:53 Tempest 3./JG 26 15km N Uelsen Tempest of 33 Sqn, RAF 34.

12.4.1945

12:54 Tempest 3./JG 26 15km N Uelsen Tempest of 33 Sqn, RAF 35.

17.4.1945

11:34 Tempest 3./JG 26 SW Lübeck Tempest of 80 Sqn, RAF 36.

21.4.1945

15:19 Spitfire 3./JG 26 Buchholz -  37.

26.4.1945

19:16 Yak-9 2./JG 26 SE Prenzlau -  38.

27.4.1945

18:25 Yak-3

[saf]

"Deliveries of Grade 100/150 aviation fuel to Eighth Air Force fighter airfields commenced in June 1944. ^{8 9 10}  This coincidentally occured about the same time as the introduction of the P-51D into service.   Even though the USAAF had cleared the P-51 for 75" Hg., the Eighth Air Force chose 72" Hg as the P-51's War Emergency Rating. ^{11 12}   Apparently there is more to the story, however, as Encounter Reports demonstrate that 75" Hg was used operationally. ^{13 14}"

 

Quote from this side http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html

 

[LukeFF]

Yeap, there were no "standard" luftwaffe pilots anymore left. Only handful of experten and rest were hopeless cannon fodder. Dortenmann's D9 victory list is however good example how different things could have been with properly trained, experienced pilots:

 

Yep, Dortenmann is the prime example of what the D-9 could do in experienced hands.  

Edited August 10, 2014 by LukeFF

[MiloMorai]

1:34 Tempest 14./JG 26 5km SW Münster Tempest of 56 Sqn, RAF 32. 31.3.1945

A 3 Sqn Tempest was lost on this date - NE of Damme.

Damme is NNE of Munster

 

12:53 Tempest 3./JG 26 15km N Uelsen Tempest of 33 Sqn, RAF 34.12.4.1945

A 33 Sqn Tempest was lost on this date W of Uelsen

RAF lost 3 of 4 Tempests to direct enemy action this date, Lw claimed 6

 

12:54 Tempest 3./JG 26 15km N Uelsen Tempest of 33 Sqn, RAF 35.17.4.1945

A 80 Sqn Tempest was lost on this date - S of Lubeck (Lw claimed 3 Tempests this date, this area)

Uelsen on the Dutch border is a long way from Lubeck

 

11:34 Tempest 3./JG 26 SW Lübeck Tempest of 80 Sqn, RAF 36.21.4.1945

A 3 Sqn Tempest was lost on this date (Stab and 6./JG26 each claimed a Tempest on this date - NW of Perleberg)

Perleberg is SE of Lubeck (Lw claimed 3 Tempests this date, non by Dortenmann)

 

From the lost list in The Typhoon and Tempest Story Thomas/Shores

 

Lw claim lists can be found at http://lesliesawyer.com/claims/tonywood.htm

Edited August 10, 2014 by MiloMorai

[Rjel]

There is little doubt had the war continued even a couple of months longer, the D9 wouldn't be facing the D model Mustang exclusively but the P-51H followed by the P-47N in larger numbers the the Focke Wulf could ever have hoped to build. Not to mentioned more and more British Tempests. The same scenario would have played out even with pilots of near similar ability. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I tested the DCS Dora offline a bit. Different feel compared to BoS. DCS Dora is nice to fly, excellent view out of the cockpit and easy engine management. I like it. Taking off is trickier than in BoS, but landing was pretty straightforward. Just need to set the buttons and all that, a task of it's own in DCS. Definitely requires TrackIR or OR to fully utilize the clickable cockpit. Nevertheless can't wait for the other WW2 birds coming out.

 

PS! One thing I noticed, I definitely need to upgrade my pedals as the toe brakes are essential in both BoS and DCS.

[Chuck_Owl]

Just discovered that you can actually code a radio station broadcast in the mission builder. Pretty neat!

 

https://vimeo.com/103538101

Edited August 15, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[Brano]

Hmm,50$ for map of Normandy,where in fact non of anounced LW aircrafts saw action....Well,either I will wait for some relevant map (Belgum,Netherlands,Ardennes) or I will dump all this DCSWW2 enterprise for the time being.

[Chuck_Owl]

Online action is getting better and better.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_MBQg3908k

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Rwpe1v79M

Edited August 21, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[Finkeren]

Looks exciting, but I just can't get past the DCS environment. Those flak bursts are incredibly nasty looking.

 

Still, the cockpits are gorgeous, and the flying seems to be fun.

[Tektolnes]

The flak is a script made by a user (not ED) more as an aid for spotting enemy incursions. I'd prefer if it was turned off on that server personally but spotting isn't great on DCS at the moment.

 

The dogfighting is great though. Feels quite different to BOS - feels like you have to have silkier hands in DCS to balance maneuvering & energy retention and the planes aren't quite as agile which makes things a bit less frenetic. Not a criticism of either product - I enjoy both. Just a subjective feeling.

[FlatSpinMan]

Interesting to see. I'd never seen DCS footage before (never thought to look). The landscape is quite like IL2 1946 around v4.10. And the ground fire (or was it just gunfire from the Mustang) looked like a modern type of weapon. 

That sounds like a criticism. I know it's not even trying to be a recreation of a WW2 ground environment yet, so I don't intend it that way.

 Oh, but now I sound like I'm criticizing it out of the corner of my mouth.

 

Curse this internecine inter-sim warfare! It makes everything you say sound suspicious.

[siipperi]

Interesting to see. I'd never seen DCS footage before (never thought to look). The landscape is quite like IL2 1946 around v4.10. And the ground fire (or was it just gunfire from the Mustang) looked like a modern type of weapon. 

That sounds like a criticism. I know it's not even trying to be a recreation of a WW2 ground environment yet, so I don't intend it that way.

 Oh, but now I sound like I'm criticizing it out of the corner of my mouth.

 

Curse this internecine inter-sim warfare! It makes everything you say sound suspicious.

I believe he's using mod ground textures. And i believe there was zu23s. Not exactly modern but still more advanced than ww2 AA, and don't expect any ww2 assets when they flying over the Georgia.

 

Well we DCS players don't look that kind of critizism as sim war but valid points that should be fixed and those will be eventually. Remember DCS World isn't just ww2 sim or modern sim (even though there is enough assets to call it one). It's platform for all kind of theatres and airplanes, even for non combat ones.

[Krupi]

Interesting to see. I'd never seen DCS footage before (never thought to look). The landscape is quite like IL2 1946 around v4.10. And the ground fire (or was it just gunfire from the Mustang) looked like a modern type of weapon. 

That sounds like a criticism. I know it's not even trying to be a recreation of a WW2 ground environment yet, so I don't intend it that way.

 Oh, but now I sound like I'm criticizing it out of the corner of my mouth.

 

Curse this internecine inter-sim warfare! It makes everything you say sound suspicious.

 

Trust me it does not look that bad when you are flying, but it is an old map. 

 

But that is irrelevant really, soon EDGE will be coming out and then next year we will have a WWII theatre map

 

What to expect from EDGE...

 

[SOLIDKREATE]

Interesting to see. I'd never seen DCS footage before (never thought to look). The landscape is quite like IL2 1946 around v4.10. And the ground fire (or was it just gunfire from the Mustang) looked like a modern type of weapon. 

That sounds like a criticism. I know it's not even trying to be a recreation of a WW2 ground environment yet, so I don't intend it that way.

 Oh, but now I sound like I'm criticizing it out of the corner of my mouth.

 

Curse this internecine inter-sim warfare! It makes everything you say sound suspicious.

 

 

The maps in DCS look just as good as IL2:BoS. I have no idea what that guy modded. I own DCS:P-51D and I plane on buying Fw-190D and F-86F. I even have FC3 (Flamming Cliffs 3) and A-10C.

 

 

Trust me it does not look that bad when you are flying, but it is an old map. 

 

But that is irrelevant really, soon EDGE will be coming out and then next year we will have a WWII theatre map

 

What to expect from EDGE...

 

 

 

 

Makes me hopeful of seeing Kittyhawk's & Spitfire Mk.V's vs. 109F-4/Trop & 109G-2/Trops

[PA-Sniv]

Just discovered that you can actually code a radio station broadcast in the mission builder. Pretty neat!

In your video, taxiing the Dora looks like driving a car...   Is it me?

[Nage]

Love the Dora and I got my first kill in MP...however, from time to time, DCS MP still has that ugly stuttering (apparently when somebody is shooting guns)..its pitty. I hope new DCS engine will fix that.

[DD_bongodriver]

Must be you, the 190's have very wide track undercarriage, very stable on the ground.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiNj_u-fXiI

[snowsnipersnow_sniper]

available November !!

[DD_bongodriver]

The screen shots are total drool material

[snowsnipersnow_sniper]

you're right bongo, but beta in novembre there's time to polish textures on it.

and edge and normandy map will may be available one day.

Anyway, a hardcore realistic accurate FM,  sim as dora or P51, in BF 109 is a good news. target

For myself i prefer Flying raf or Russian in BOS but it is a famous one.

I will purchase DCS spit when available. my favourite plane, just to put those think down. ;-)

Edited August 28, 2014 by snowsnipersnow_sniper

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I need to sew my wallet shut, I swear to God.

[ST_ami7b5]

I need to sew my wallet shut, I swear to God.

LOL

 

I have Mustang and Dora; now I'll wait for the Normandy map before further shopping...

Edited August 29, 2014 by ST_ami7b5

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I thought my VISA would be spared, but no...That Kurfürst looks gorgeous!

[Finkeren]

Looks nice enough, though still with that DCS look, I'm not quite sold on.

 

However, am I completely off the reservation, Or does the pilot look a little too small sitting in that cockpit? Most pics I've seen of pilots sitting the 109s cockpit, there seems to be almost no room at all.

[DB605]

Looks nice enough, though still with that DCS look, I'm not quite sold on.

 

However, am I completely off the reservation, Or does the pilot look a little too small sitting in that cockpit? Most pics I've seen of pilots sitting the 109s cockpit, there seems to be almost no room at all.

 

"Nice enough" sounds a bit underestimation for me Easily best 3d model of 109 in any sim som far. But yes, pilot is bit small, it's especially noticeable in shots from above.

 

 

 

But from front and side pilot looks ok enough. And it still not even beta.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by DB605

[DD_bongodriver]

Negligible.

 

[Finkeren]

It's not the 3D model itself I'm criticising. Most of the newer DCS models are far better and more detailed than anything out there, including BoS.

 

My problem is with the way it presents itself in the sim. I don't know if it's the shaders or the almost complete lack of reflections, but it just kinda looks like a very high-poly model had been transfered into IL-2 1946.

[1./JG42Nephris]

looks like a very high-poly model had been transfered into IL-2 1946.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

I really hope Edge will be able to polish the outlook and give the models the value they actually deserve...imho of course.

[Finkeren]

Also, and this may well just be a pre-beta placeholder, the spinning prop looks kinda awful.

 

Still, a nice model, and if people who actually own the DCS 1944 birds can be trusted also a great FM.

[DB605]

It's not the 3D model itself I'm criticising. Most of the newer DCS models are far better and more detailed than anything out there, including BoS.

 

My problem is with the way it presents itself in the sim. I don't know if it's the shaders or the almost complete lack of reflections, but it just kinda looks like a very high-poly model had been transfered into IL-2 1946.

 

I see your point, and i agree about lack of reflections. They are especially nice in BOS. Maybe it's because of old game engine, hopefully they will be improved in EDGE.

[Tektolnes]

Yes the reflections in BOS are definitely nicer at the moment. Edge will address this issue as far as I know. Just have to look at the gorgeous Sabre screenshots taken in Edge. That thing is going to shine.  

[MiloMorai]

It is good that late 1944 German fighters (D-9, K-4) are being introduced to give the early 1944 P-51s some competition.