Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[Dakpilot]

I am sure they are busy, but to make a clear statement about 1 map and 1 model update each week, even to the point of specifying the day, then being late on the first and completely missing the next two does not give confidence.

 

I am sure efforts are being made to get a dedicated web site up and running, but really it only takes a minute to post and give some feedback...especially from the team with "the greatest level of intereaction with the fanbase in the history of flight sims " or whatever the blurb was

 

At this stage I am sure twice weekly updates are not needed but why again promise and not deliver, or even give comment. Although there will certainly be genuine reasons for the delays, the lack of interaction can only lead to easy criticism and reflection on past history...

 

Cheers Dakpilot 

[DD_bongodriver]

I don't think they make any promises, somehow that's what they get interpreted as.

[Dakpilot]

You are correct, they made no "promises" but 

 

"Fridays will be our 3D development updates: planes, cockpits, vehicles, and so on.  

Tuesdays will be our landscape development updates where we'll be looking at our Normandy as it takes shape. "

That cannot be taken any other way than as, lets say a clear intention.... quite simply a bit more interaction and not weeks of silence will put minds at ease, just an opinion...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

Exactly, I see nothing in there saying it will be 'every' Tuesday and 'every' Friday, so clearly the intention is to mark those specific days but not to suggest a regular soap opera.

[Dakpilot]

I think two updates a week is fairly unambiguous.....

 

anyway i look forward to some news soon 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

^{'Hello folks,}  

 

 

^{I think we're going to do two development updates per week.'} 

 

 

When you quote it in full the ambiguity comes from the 'I think' part, still no firm promise of such regularity but rather a statement from a man drunk on enthusiasm.

 

anyway I'm also looking forward to some news whenever it comes.

[ST_ami7b5]

"'Sry, I'm too busy ATM, will see you next week"

 

Fictious response that took me about 20 seconds...

[DD_bongodriver]

Did you pause an important task just to write that post?

[ST_ami7b5]

c'mon...

 

It's not even funny.

I'm a backer too.

[DD_bongodriver]

Me too, I personally couldn't care less if we get 2 updates in the entire process, I just want to see the finished product roughly on time.

[AndyJWest]

I've not seen a finished air combat simulator yet...  

[DD_bongodriver]

Hmm...good point, OK I just want to see a released product roughly on time......

Edited October 23, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[ST_ami7b5]

Look bongo,

 

I would never make a promise I'm not sure I can deliver.

Ok, it happens ofc. you can't do that.

But in that case I would (FOR SURE) let the community know what's the reason (20 secs)...

 

No need to continue this dialogue, 'cause i'm sure we both wish DCS:WWII success.

For obvious reason.

Edited October 23, 2013 by ST_ami7b5

[DD_bongodriver]

Sure, I understand fully that many need the community interaction thing, what I don't understand is people who like to make public spectacles over the issue, not accusing you of this but I have absolutely no doubt that some will make the ride as unpleasant as they possibly can for everyone.

[Mac_Messer]

^{'Hello folks,}  

 

 

^{I think we're going to do two development updates per week.'} 

 

 

When you quote it in full the ambiguity comes from the 'I think' part, still no firm promise of such regularity but rather a statement from a man drunk on enthusiasm.

 

anyway I'm also looking forward to some news whenever it comes.

Well I think two updates over alpha material is a wasted effort. I`m more kinda guy that wants to see firm results on a certain deadline. Then if those results aren`t met I`d get nervous.

[Dakpilot]

I also would be more than happy with a monthly update.

 

My dis-satisfaction with how things are are simple:

 

Friday Development Update - October 11, 2013

60 comments 

 

Like

86 likes

 

Hello folks,  

I think we're going to do two development updates per week. 

Fridays will be our 3D development updates: planes, cockpits, vehicles, and so on.  

Tuesdays will be our landscape development updates where we'll be looking at our Normandy as it takes shape.  

We have a lot of stuff you haven't seen yet, especially in the 3D category, so hopefully these won't get boring or stale for a while.  

Today: first look at our Tiger I tank.  

 

Followed by the next update, in line with the above schedule hinted at, a sort of precedent is suggested/provided

Update #18

Oct 16, 2013

Normandy Development Update - October 16, 2013

8 comments 

 

Like

55 likes

 

Hello folks,

I’ve been absolutely swamped these past few days. Catching a plane to Moscow in a couple of hours, so I probably won’t respond to any questions or comments on this update for at least 24 hours.

Here’s where we are with Normandy today....

 

All great then a gap of 8 days without a peep, Mine and many others point, is why set yourself up for criticism, threads in many forums wondering what happened when a simple "we are busy  " will keep interested minds at rest

with past project experience to fall back on I find it hard to understand this kind of management, which could so easily be avoided.

This IS a flight sim community and criticism is bound to come so why leave yourself SO open to it with past histories.

This is not bashing, simply looking for explanations, I WANT this to succeed and look forward to it

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

If a person walks around with a sign saying 'shoot me' is there really an obligation to actually do it? we all know what Luthier is like, we all know that regular updates are not his forte, we all know he has the skills to produce this software.

[Dakpilot]

My simple suggestion is that he stops wearing the sign 

 

there everyone happy

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

So the temptation is simply too great? it's a fair point though, nobody wants him to wear the sign.

[JG27_Chivas]

Luthier is usually way to optimistic in what he and his team can accomplish in a short period of time.  That said I don't think he intended to start two updates a week immediately.  He still has the rewards to get properly documented, have made, and sent out which could take a considerable amount of time.  As far as the game content updates, one every two weeks would be more doable.  Not much can be done in a week that worth showing, especially at this stage in development.  That said he's probably looking at the huge dent the rewards will make in the 150 grand and wondering if it may be better spent on an extended holiday with no intention of coming back.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Hi Chivas, where you been?

[Feathered_IV]

That said he's probably looking at the huge dent the rewards will make in the 150 grand and wondering if it may be better spent on an extended holiday with no intention of coming back.

I was pretty concerned about that. The writing editing and publishing of five or six books is going to be a very large and costly task. Many of the manuals will need to wait until the aircraft are finalised. I'd imagine luthier intents to do most do the writing himself, as he does it rather well. However his time will be taken up with so many more pressing things, I doubt he'll have the time. There might well be a twelve month delay between the release and the mail out of the books, if they can be accomplished without jeopardising the project.

[Jochen]

WW2 aircraft manuals are widely available. Add key mapping, some charts and ring binder. No complaint from me.

From the air combat manual I expect a little bit more, but that also has been written before.

 

As for today's simulation games; don't expect final on release, and community involvement.

This has been an ongoing trend not exclusive to IL-2 ... Silent Hunter, Steel Beasts, Falcon, ArmA; all became great games because of the modding community. Be glad that there are still game studios that believe in making fully-fledged sims, instead of the usual zombie-killing shite.

 

I do agree that the DCS: WWII forum has quieted down and I don't think it's good.

On the other hand; I think Ilya needed a breather from moving to the US and the KS campaign and is aligning with his team while he is on vacation in Russia.

 

Keep the faith ... we're the only simmers left.

[kestrel79]

My guess is the "manual" will just be the instruction book pdf that the DCS p-51 already has printed out and put in a ring binder. The new planes will be similar to that. If you are expecting more prepare to be disappointed. I'm not holding my breath.

 

I hope we get an update today...

[Uufflakke]

Update #18 on Oktober 16th: 'Stay tuned for a 3D modeling update on Friday!'

 

Well, two days later it was Friday the 18th: Nothing

Then Friday the 25th: Nothing

 

Communicate at least that there is nothing to show because the team is not satisfied with the WIP status. Or something like that.

A few lines won't take that much time of his busy schedule.

I think in Chernobyl there is more traffic then at the DCS WWII board at the moment, only 2 posts today.

 

This line in Update #18 is very ambitious:'We started working on a 1:1 recreation of Utah beach. It’ll be one of the areas recreated down to each street, each object. It’s obviously in the very early stages.'

Each street, each object. That is an immense task to fulfill I would say.

Isn't Luthier a bit overenthusiastic? Ambitious? Lost his sense of reality? Bluffing?

Or will we really see a 1:1 recreation and is it my scepticism?

 

Time will tell, time will tell.

[Matt]

Well, after the last update with the Normany map, i wouldn't mind if he would take his time and stick with quality updates. Showing new stuff twice a week is a bit over the top anyway imho.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Has he done a runner ?

 

Has he not heard of Twitter (From someone who steadfastly refuses to get with it).

 

If Celeb's can tweet about scratching their bo**ocks (even the girls) and think it might be vaguely interesting surely Luthier can spend a couple of minutes a week saying stupid inane things like "Don't worry, I'm still alive"  or " busy in the office this week sorting out work schedule for workers" or "Can't post updates for the next couple of weeks as I'm out of the office" etc etc

[BFsSmurfy]

I`ve given up caring about this one, if it comes to fruition and is playable on a 32+ slot server I`ll be happily surprised. Wouldn`t hurt for him to appear and say something in support of his project, it`s what most GOOD project managers do.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Still way too early to start worrying yet, its getting no more than a slight sideways glance at the moment.

[Sim]

Seems to be dead already? People are asking how to cancel the backing on ED forums and the mods are actively deleting "where is luthier" threads..

Edited October 31, 2013 by Sim

[DD_bongodriver]

Thank goodness, no reason why they shouldn't want to keep the same order over there as here.

[EAF_Paf]

I backed it because I love WW2 sims. I was not impressed by the KS and Luthiers PR, but, well everybody needs a second chance and to have another combatsim on the horizon is great.

I don't understand why L said there will be 2! updates a week and he can't reach it. Noone demanded such at this development-stage... Again its bad PR.

BUT to say its already dead is absolutely over the top. Now give him some time and see what he can deliver.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Seems to be dead already? People are asking how to cancel the backing on ED forums and the mods are actively deleting "where is luthier" threads..

 

That's, mmmmmm, maybe a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? That said, there most certainly are individuals who already want to withdraw their backing and so on, although I fail to see any reason to do that in this point. Other than being really inpatient, that is. Still, Luthier should withdraw his earlier statement about 2 updates a week (probably done in the heat of the moment anyway) and aim to one update in two weeks or something like that. And for those worried about how things are going on, there is something to see in DCS WWII terrain thread in ED forums at least.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I wouldn't even starting worrying for at least another 3 months, as long as all the people got the rewards sorted, the P51 and 190, there is nothing to get worked up about.

Edited October 31, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[Dakpilot]

Thank goodness, no reason why they shouldn't want to keep the same order over there as here.

 

Of course it is a site belonging to a business, but at least here there IS some interaction when hot topics arise and not weeks of nothing....

 

Monthly updates would be fine at this stage but a month (okay two weeks) of nothing is not helping anybody....one screen of a (goodlooking) flooded field is nothing compared to one sentence from the team leader..his last comment was dont expect anything for at least 24 hours

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[DD_bongodriver]

Yes, no denying PR is really not Luthiers forte, he has a habit of handling it badly, personally I couldn't give a rats ass about it, as long as he gets on with the job of producing what I really want.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Personally, I'm not so much worried as disappointed.

 

I freely admit that there might be some confusion as to the twice weekly updates and when they are supposed to start but Luthier isn't on another planet and even two or three words on the DCS forum might be beneficial.  If he produces the goods and they are of the quality he has promised then his lousy PR is just a fly in the ointment, nothing more.  However a couple of words, given the myriad of ways to communicate in this day and age, isn't really asking too much, is it ?

[Feathered_IV]

I don't think too many people would be shocked to discover that Luthier is disorganised and does not set realistic goals for himself or his team. Nor that he is rarely on time and is prone to long absences. This sort of thing is entirely normal and shouldn't be anything to get worked up over. Maybe by July/August if there is no apparent movement or the map has been thrown in the bin to start again, then there might be some cause to worry or to wonder.

[DD_bongodriver]

Let's face it, over here we get spoiled rotten with regular pampering, so it's a culture shock to get anything else.

[Dakpilot]

A lot of people are expecting Feb 2014 alpha access, if nothing is heard by July/Aug I WOULD expect a bit of concern, 

 

Cheers Dakpilot