Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[heinkill]

Well, in IL2 the P51D was my second favourite chariot after the Spit IX...can't dogfight in it to save my life but love it for blowing stuff up (like tanks, trains, V2s or bombers) and when I need to run away, it has the legs to get me out of trouble! I like the Jug too, but those 190s can reel me in, and chew me up bad. In my P51 all they see is my heiny waving goodbye. My third favourite was the A20. Which says a LOT about me...

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2013 by heinkill

[DD_bongodriver]

OOhh now that's nice, she looks pretty in commonwealth clothes too.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

To me...

 

The P51 is the flash rich kid.

The Spit is the really cool kid.

The P47 is the big fat kid who is lots of fun.

 

and the 109 is the silent moody kid who is a bit scary and nobody messes with.

[DD_bongodriver]

Not the individual, but as a species i don't think that would be very far off Bongo, unfortunately.  

 

 

I just thought at least when people found a group with similar interest they tended to support the interest.

[Rjel]

Yes, no doubt I won't regret my purchase, just like I didn't regret buying Clod and have absolutely no fear in backing the DCS kickstarter, we Clodites have a lot of love to give, we will still give some of you smaller minded types the a warm wecome if you get over yourselves.

*sniff* I'm so ashamed.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I just thought at least when people found a group with similar interest they tended to support the interest.

 

You would hope so, but we know better than most what we can be like.

[DD_bongodriver]

*sniff* I'm so ashamed.

 

[DD_bongodriver]

You would hope so, but we know better than most what we can be like.

 

Self destructive........

[JG27_Chivas]

Most of us wouldn't know which sim has the better FM if it hit us beside the head, but we certainly have our bias's.   It appears that COD, BOS, and DCSWW2 will all have very good FM's.  

 

The P51, is a real beauty, although I've gravitated to the 109's/190's since the IL-2 days, as the German's certainly know how to build beautiful cockpits, and those cannons can end a fight much quicker, allowing more time to do the same to their wingman.

Edited September 29, 2013 by JG27_Chivas

[Zak]

Cool refreshing read-only infractions sent to bongodriver, Mac_Messer and Tvrdi.

God, this thread only makes ppl agressive. Is it what you got this thread for? flame wars?

The question is rhetorical, I guess..

[Rjel]

To me the P-51 looks like a pregnant guppy with that huge belly radiator placed so far back. Together with the boxy vertical tail and wings it isn't exactly pretty in my eyes. I had to do a double-take when I read that the belly radiator actually increased the planes' air speed because of the jet effect of the hot exhaust... - Really an example of how appearances can be deceiving.

 

The somewhat so-so looks do not detract from the fact that it was a fantastic fighter that took the battle far into Germany and broke the back of the Luftwaffe.

All good points but all the more reason why North American Aviation was able to ramp up production so quickly. I love the looks of the Mc202s and 205s but what a production nightmare they must have been?

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

All this has to stop guys, its doing nobody and no sim any good. I used to be one of the worst offenders for this sort of sniping and arguing but hopefully ive learned its a pointless process and it gets nobody anywhere, and im trying hard to not start again.

 

Were a small group of like minded people, the last thing we need to keep doing is taking sides and attacking any sim that's not your favourite, or from your favourite developer.

All flight sims need our support but if you cant do that, then lets at least stop trying to shoot down the sims we cant, on this or any other forum.

 

The problem is, for it to end, everyone needs to stop doing it.

 

So please chaps, end it tonight.

[Bearcat]

Funny thing is, i like the P51B,  Weird.

 

I like the B too and it is modeled in DCS.. at least in the model viewer ...

 

I see the P-51 as an efficient machine, but the 109s just have this...style... to them.

 

I gained a greater appreciation for the 109 over time as far as it's looks go .. but to me the P-51 and the Spitfire are the two most beautiful pistin fighter aircraft ever made.

 

Very nice skin Bearcat. When I heard fir redtail´s.....their stories are inspiring and fascinated. My favourite US plane would be P47D and overall Spitfire  IX....both included in Europe 44 hehe.

DCS WW2 Europe 44 would be much different than BOS. Though both have their strongpoints. I believe Europe 44 would have more believable FM, much detailed CEM etc...BOS probably would have better effects and maybe crowded MP. We need to see.

I dont agree DCS has long learing curve. I needed 2 nights to learn CEM in P51, takeoff procedure etc... Ofcourse, that needs more practice to become automatic but nothing like its for geeks who habe einstein brains...

 

There is no way of knowing that and actually if they are done right they both should have a similar FM.

 

I've loved the look of the Mustang since I was a wee little boy, not big enough to piss in a key hole.  Had a model of the P-51 with a working prop and see thru fuselage.  The internals alone were a thing of beauty.  The P-51 seems to me to be the pinnicle of prop driven fighter planes.  

 

 I think second in line based solely on appearance would be the P-38 Lightning.  And of course, everyone loves the B17 and Mosquito.

 

I had that ...

 

You repeat that over and over..

Why should DCS have a more believable FM, when the guy that developed the AFM concept is working at BoS exculively?

 

Exactly .. Not only that .. as I stated above,, if the FMs are done right then they should be similar.. There should not a=be a great disparity between the two.

That is correct.

Too sad that BoS fanbois lie just to derail DCS. Sad people.

 

I have had enough of this BS from you and your buddy.

[Bearcat]

Cool refreshing read-only infractions sent to bongodriver, Mac_Messer and Tvrdi.

God, this thread only makes ppl agressive. Is it what you got this thread for? flame wars?

The question is rhetorical, I guess..

 

 

Hmmm I see I am not the only one... This thread is going off the rails so fast I can't keep up.

 

Look guys if you folks want to keep this thread going you need to loose the BS and keep the discussion on track.. To those who reported certain posts to the mods thanks..

[AndyJWest]

Meanwhile, back on the DCS forums, Luthier's latest post needs some well-thought-out responses: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114788

 

 

[royraiden]

To me...

 

The P51 is the flash rich kid.

The Spit is the really cool kid.

The P47 is the big fat kid who is lots of fun.

 

and the 109 is the silent moody kid who is a bit scary and nobody messes with. and if they did he would kick their asses

Fixed:) But nice comparison.

Edited September 30, 2013 by royraiden

[Feathered_IV]

Meanwhile, back on the DCS forums, Luthier's latest post needs some well-thought-out responses: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114788

Gosh. Better late than never I suppose, but I do wish some of these things had been thought out earlier. Another dramatic about-face so close to the end is very unlikely to yield results. That being said, a Paypal option would certainly help. That is one of the principal things holding me back after the crisis of management issues.

[taildraggernut]

Interesting....

 

Thread about DCS, arguments between DCS bashers and DCS supporters, DCS supporters banned.......

 

I'm out.

[Uufflakke]

Sometimes I have the feeling this thread is not about a Flight Sim but about a Train Simulator.

 

With all this derailing....

 

[Bearcat]

Interesting....

 

Thread about DCS, arguments between DCS bashers and DCS supporters, DCS supporters banned.......

 

I'm out.

 

Indeed you are.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

At the moment it looks like to me that there will be about 1800(+) pledgers for DCS WWII:Europe 1944 with maybe 125000$ pledged. Maybe a little bit dissapointing figure, but then again understandable I think. It should still be enough to make a solid basic product and build on that. I think that would be the only way to convince some of the people. Other than that, I see also more general type of problems with flight sim marketing. Something I haven't really thought about earlier. And this common with every and all real flight sims. First is how to get the attention of the general public, cause I am willing to say that customer base for flight sims and for other type of games are slightly different. Meaning that there are people who might not be that interested about most type of games, but could be about flight sims. Reaching those people is problematic, because they don't read flight sim forums etc. So marketing needs to take a different route. The second one is something that someone brought out in the comments for kickstarter, namely (the imaginery) the cost of all the related stuff. I am in opinion, that to enjoy a flight sim, only things you need is a computer that can run it and joystick. Some rather cheap twiststick will do. But to me it seems many people have impression, that you need to have high-end Hotas system with pedals and track ir and whatnot to enjoy. And that makes it look like the cost for just playing the game is too high and there is too much trouble. Then there is the notion that flighsims are too hard to learn. This is actually something that puts away quite a few "gamers". People who play a lot of games, let's say FPS type and are pretty good at them. Now picking up something that actually requires you to start from beginning, where you are not proficient just after short familiarisation, is something that puts them off. This goes with other people also. And flight sims are to attract larger audience, all of these are also something that needs some attention, I think. One thing Ilya was right about in one of his vids was that flight sims would benefit, if the learning would be more fun.

 

Just my current thoughts about DCS WWII, but also, and even more, about flight sims in general.

[Dakpilot]

I was just at The Fighter Collection website (arrived there for a different reason) and am surprised there is no mention of DCS WWII kickstarter project at all, or maybe i couldn't find it?

 

http://fighter-collection.com/cft/

 

Lots of mentions about DCS P-51 and being able to try i,t and new DCS Jets out at airshows but nothing about kickstart or DCS WWII did I miss it somehow?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Stig]

All this has to stop guys, its doing nobody and no sim any good. I used to be one of the worst offenders for this sort of sniping and arguing but hopefully ive learned its a pointless process and it gets nobody anywhere, and im trying hard to not start again.

 

Were a small group of like minded people, the last thing we need to keep doing is taking sides and attacking any sim that's not your favourite, or from your favourite developer.

All flight sims need our support but if you cant do that, then lets at least stop trying to shoot down the sims we cant, on this or any other forum.

 

The problem is, for it to end, everyone needs to stop doing it.

 

So please chaps, end it tonight.

 

+1 Furbs

 

I would only add, it really only takes a $1 pledge to show support for the DCS KS, even if you're a bit cagey about the product or the people behind it. After all, it is a WWII fligtsim, and that's why we're all here isn't it? We have nothing to lose, but everything to gain, imo. 

[dburne]

I was just at The Fighter Collection website (arrived there for a different reason) and am surprised there is no mention of DCS WWII kickstarter project at all, or maybe i couldn't find it?

 

http://fighter-collection.com/cft/

 

Lots of mentions about DCS P-51 and being able to try i,t and new DCS Jets out at airshows but nothing about kickstart or DCS WWII did I miss it somehow?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Outside of the one forum at the ED site, and here, and at Atag's site, there is not a whole lot of mention about it anywhere.

Edited September 30, 2013 by dburnette

[Stig]

Outside of the one forum at the ED site, and here, and at Atag's site, there is not a whole lot of mention about it anywhere.

 

Also at Simhq. At M4T and SAS, however there is apparently very little interest in it.

[Dutch]

To me...

 

The P51 is the flash rich kid.

The Spit is the really cool kid.

The P47 is the big fat kid who is lots of fun.

 

and the 109 is the silent moody kid who is a bit scary and nobody messes with.

The P-51 is the Bleached Blonde with mini-skirt and artificially enhanced parts

The Spitfire is the sophisticated natural beauty who looks the part even without make-up.

The P-47 is Dawn French.

The 109 is that bird out of the Japanese horror films, such as 'The Ring'. And I don't mean the crappy Hollywood remake.

[BFsSmurfy]

I don`t quite understand the logic behind $1 gets you the 3 planes, if that had been touted at $20 nobody could complain, it`s probably worth $80 in reality. If it`s to draw folks in it`s a brave move, I can`t see 150k being achieved and that`s down to poor advertising, poor planning and lack of forum visibility on the lead fella`s part imo, but hopefully the B17 will be a purchase option at around $50, and the other planes at a similar level.

 

Wouldn`t it be great if all the WW2 sim devs could get together and make one fantastic sim, shared resource, shared funding, but if us lot can`t get along , what chance have they got!!!

[Freycinet]

I actually think competition will be more stimulating for these sims than cooperation between all of them would have been. I'm pretty sure DCS WWII (if it gets off the ground) will make BoS better and vice-versa.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Problem for me is there is no competition when all three/four sims don't address the need for co-ops or chat lobby in game or HL. ROF, BOS, CLOD and DCS all ignored the most faithful simmers there are and I don't see this changing any time soon. Hopefully one day one of those devs will realize how important this is and when then implement the changes needed and regardless of a name they will become the next 'IL2'. That will be the company that I support 100%.

[BFsSmurfy]

Looks like he`s got his butt in gear finally, the map SDK is a yes, so that`s a real plus point imo.  pledges have risen quite a lot in the last few hours, I still think the 150k is too far away given the time remaining, but you never know. 1 months time 1 new WW2 sim to play, 1 years time 2, happy days!!

[Bearcat]

All this has to stop guys, its doing nobody and no sim any good. I used to be one of the worst offenders for this sort of sniping and arguing but hopefully ive learned its a pointless process and it gets nobody anywhere, and im trying hard to not start again.

 

Were a small group of like minded people, the last thing we need to keep doing is taking sides and attacking any sim that's not your favourite, or from your favourite developer.

All flight sims need our support but if you cant do that, then lets at least stop trying to shoot down the sims we cant, on this or any other forum.

 

The problem is, for it to end, everyone needs to stop doing it.

 

So please chaps, end it tonight.

 

LoL.. I know you are serious Furbs and believe me.. I can really really really appreciate and testify to the fact that you indeed have become a changed man.. but when you said that I had images of recovery in my head.. "Hi .. my name is Furbs and I am a recovering flight sim forum ..... "

At the moment it looks like to me that there will be about 1800(+) pledgers for DCS WWII:Europe 1944 with maybe 125000$ pledged. Maybe a little bit dissapointing figure, but then again understandable I think. It should still be enough to make a solid basic product and build on that. I think that would be the only way to convince some of the people. Other than that, I see also more general type of problems with flight sim marketing. Something I haven't really thought about earlier. And this common with every and all real flight sims. First is how to get the attention of the general public, cause I am willing to say that customer base for flight sims and for other type of games are slightly different. Meaning that there are people who might not be that interested about most type of games, but could be about flight sims. Reaching those people is problematic, because they don't read flight sim forums etc. So marketing needs to take a different route. The second one is something that someone brought out in the comments for kickstarter, namely (the imaginery) the cost of all the related stuff. I am in opinion, that to enjoy a flight sim, only things you need is a computer that can run it and joystick. Some rather cheap twiststick will do. But to me it seems many people have impression, that you need to have high-end Hotas system with pedals and track ir and whatnot to enjoy. And that makes it look like the cost for just playing the game is too high and there is too much trouble. Then there is the notion that flighsims are too hard to learn. This is actually something that puts away quite a few "gamers". People who play a lot of games, let's say FPS type and are pretty good at them. Now picking up something that actually requires you to start from beginning, where you are not proficient just after short familiarisation, is something that puts them off. This goes with other people also. And flight sims are to attract larger audience, all of these are also something that needs some attention, I think. One thing Ilya was right about in one of his vids was that flight sims would benefit, if the learning would be more fun.

 

Just my current thoughts about DCS WWII, but also, and even more, about flight sims in general.

 

To a point .. but I really think that the reason a lot of folks don't do sims is because of the learning curve and the hardware reqs .. Other products may have a steep learning curve but the nature of the FS learning curve demands a lot of multitasking that many are just not up for.. You will find that most simmers started with a love of flight and aircraft .. and the reason why so many WWII simmers are older is because we have a stronger connection with the aircraft.  I agree that the marketing of sims needs to be better.. but I think that if we had a few more movies about WWII pilots on the big screen it would help. I expect to see a spike in interest in WWII aviation when the HBO series about the 8th is finally released.

 

I was just at The Fighter Collection website (arrived there for a different reason) and am surprised there is no mention of DCS WWII kickstarter project at all, or maybe i couldn't find it?

 

http://fighter-collection.com/cft/

 

Lots of mentions about DCS P-51 and being able to try i,t and new DCS Jets out at airshows but nothing about kickstart or DCS WWII did I miss it somehow?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

This is one of the things that causes me alarm about this project.. I don't have money to burn and I invested what I did invest in this project more as a gamble and a nod to my passion for wwii SIMS THAN ANY and I knew the risk.. but this kind of stuff is what makes me go hmmmm.

 

+1 Furbs

 

I would only add, it really only takes a $1 pledge to show support for the DCS KS, even if you're a bit cagey about the product or the people behind it. After all, it is a WWII fligtsim, and that's why we're all here isn't it? We have nothing to lose, but everything to gain, imo. 

 

True...

 

Outside of the one forum at the ED site, and here, and at Atag's site, there is not a whole lot of mention about it anywhere.

 

 

Also at Simhq. At M4T and SAS, however there is apparently very little interest in it.

 

I was going to say this myself.. I am a little concerned at the lack of promotion on the part of the team itself but I look forward to late 2014 early 2015  which is when I think we will see DCS WWII

[royraiden]

SDK Tools announced!!!

[LLv44_Mprhead]

 I expect to see a spike in interest in WWII aviation when the HBO series about the 8th is finally released.

 

 

 

 

This is something that I also expect to see happening. And it is a really good thing. What you said about hardware, it is also true. You need to have dedicated gaming pc to be able to play flight sims and large part of those who would otherwise be the most potential customer base don't necessary have them.

Edited September 30, 2013 by mprhead

[Feathered_IV]

I'm glad to see they are reconsidering releasing so many aircraft for free. It did not make sense economically. I would suggest that the Spitfire be the free one (I see Ilya favors the Jug). Even my mother knows what a Spitfire is, and if they wish to draw people into the project, that is surely the one to tempt them with.

[Bearcat]

Yes but changing the terms after so many have already pledged will be problematic for sure.

[Tektolnes]

Why? The terms only change for non-pledgers after the KS finishes. You can pledge anytime up to the close and get the original offer.

[Feathered_IV]

It does seem to have made a hash of things a bit. I still haven't put in yet myself. I'd been waiting to see how the kickstarter was handled, to gauge how one might expect the much more complex task of the sim to managed.

 

I can't see how the team can expect to deliver the basic package in twelve months. They'd need to average a new aircraft finished every twelve to fourteen weeks to stay on target. The map and other game assets are another consideration for the unreleased Edge software. Two years from now, perhaps that is a more accurate estimate.

 

The one dollar I could pay now for three flyable would be pointless for a sim that is "going ahead anyway". The success of the project isn't so much dependent upon an injection of cash as it is a badly needed dose of common sense. I think it will be better for me not to support the project at this time. If DCSWW2 turns out to be a fiasco, I'll have saved myself some money. If it beats what looks like some rather poor odds and makes a success of itself, I will gratefully pay a premium price for whatever content is on offer.

[Tektolnes]

I think it's feasible. The P51-D is done. The FW-190 is around 80% done. Yo-Yo is clearly working on the Spit IX already. The EDGE team are already working on the map. That leaves the P-47 and 109-K4 to do from scratch plus the two AI non-flyables.

 

ED are fronting this more than people seem to realise. They've got RRG guys sitting in the same office as ED guys in Moscow judging by the video - that's more than the other 3rd party partners seem to have. ED are also the ones fronting up the rest of the cash most likely. They know that there's much quicker money in WW2 than modern jets. Their F-18C won't even get a news update for another year.

 

If they let out that they're working a lot in WW2 their massive modern jet fan base would throw all sorts of wobblers. This setup with RRG allows them to get work in WW2 done while they continue to work away on the Hornet which is going to be a stop-start process given the nature of that project. So while Ilya might be a bit of a PR clown there's people with the experience in developing high fidelity WW2 planes working with him which leaves less scope for things getting mucked up.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

 

Creator Ilya Shevchenko about 10 hours ago

Hey guys,

Quick update. Just to get some of you a bit more excited.

We finally have a decision on the EDGE SDK.

It's a YES!

I'm doing a quick video about it and recording some footage from inside EDGE. Should be a quick video to make, look for it later tonight.

Hopefully we can organize a community effort to create more landscapes for DCS WWII. This can mean a community-created Southern England, or Ardennes, or Market Garden, or Ruhr, there are tons of options and I really look forward to a discussion on this topic!

This really is big news!

 

Eventually getting access to the Edge SDK means a hell of a lot to the longevity of this sim.

 

Don't like the maps? No problem, go make your own and show how it's supposed to be done!

 

In previous posts Luthier said that the maps could be extended after release. Maybe community generated sections of the map could be incorporated latter on if they are good enough. Even if they are not there are a hell of a lot of very talented people out in the community, why not take advantage of them!

 

This is very cool!

[MACADEMIC]

I nearly withdrew my support, until I realized something.

 

There's something very dear about Luthier's passion. This is a hero's journey. He's been right there at the top, at young age, has taken a deep fall, is trying to get on his feet again. The clumsy campaign is evidence of this struggle. It's easy to see what could have been done better. Obvious to everyone who watched. Not so easy to see the inner fight. The doubts. The fear.

This kickstarter is his katharsis. From great pain great strength can be born.

Here's to the crazy ones...

MAC