Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[Revvin]

War Thunder is where the money is.Make of that what you will.

A couple of stats from wiki. No, I struggle to believe it as well, but there you go.Anyone willing to attempt a hi fidelity DCs type sim in this market had my respect.

 

'July 25, 2013 - War Thunder reaches 3 million players.'

 

'The average size of maps in the game currently range from approximately 65 km x 65 km to 100 km x 100 km to 200 km x 200 km'

 

Its a nice number but all the free MMOG's are the same. Its new so people sign up, after all they have nothing to lose its free but how many stay? I'd like to know how many of those accounts are active. Because of its F2P model they had to make concessions to get people in and hope they bought content, one big one being mouse control/mouse aim call it what you will but it opens up its potential audience even further on top of being free. I wonder how many long time flight sim fans like me downloaded it but left when they felt the mouse control element left them perhaps at a disadvantage.

[Stig]

All I can do is go with how I feel. I'm for supporting any product I believe in. Yeah 40 bucks won't kill me either but that isn't the point in my mind. I just don't get a good feel for this product. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say so. I'm not going to sit here and try to talk others out of chipping in. I'm just going to pass this time around.

 

That's fair enough, and I'm not singling you out. It's your viewpoint, that you probably share with many others. The point I'm trying to get across is that you and all the others wanting US planes and the Western theatres, that well, this it. If it's where the big(ger) market is now is the time to show it, but you're not. So that's got to leave not only RRG/ DCS wondering whether the US planes/ WTO is the gold mine the community keeps on claiming it to be, but 777/ 1C are also likely to become sceptical.

 

You may think not you're risking anything by waiting and seeing, but what you risk is that you won't get to fly the aircraft you really want in the theatre you are looking forward to most, because in the end nobody makes it.

 

This is all conjecture on my part of cause, not being privy to either of the above developers intentions, plans or financial situation. It may be worst case scenario, but not unfeasable given the niche market that flightsims are.  

[Freycinet]

My problem to the DCS graphics are i am loosing view in P51 on an oponent at a distance of 300m+, what makes dogfighting for me useless of course. A proper working mp is a must be in todays time ,which is not atm.

Another issue is that the project presentation is again far off looking professional.

I dont know about the internas of Clodo and what happened.However the disaster got a personal projection on the lead dev, so i am not sure if it was smart to use the same one for community contacts and advertisement.

People demand multinational big developer professionalism from a small guy working on a shoestring budget that he tries to supplement with donations.

 

I never thought so many (so-called) flight sim enthusiasts would get so much pleasure out of kicking a guy already lying down...

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I never thought so many (so-called) flight sim enthusiasts would get so much pleasure out of kicking a guy already lying down...

I really don't think that there's that many of them Freycinet, They just make a lot of noise!

[Bearcat]

1CGS have the 1C financial clout behind them just as Maddox games used to do.

This is correct.I stand corrected.

 

I don't think a lot of this is so much kicking a guy when he is down as it is having a certain level of expectation for a product. I supported DCS WWII at a decent level because I know the project needs the support and based on IL2 and even CoD regardless to it's initial issues at release it is a good product overall with enormous potential... but there are still certain expectations that 90% of the folks who do this thing e engage in expect and being able to track a target without it disappearing entirely is one of them. This was also an issue in IL2 at one point as I recall. In the same vein it is not so much a matter of kicking this project in the face but seeing similar patterns from a previous experience with the key players behind it and wondering if what is being seen is a repeat. Considering the flak that BoS got right here at home based on it having a connection to CoD for what that was worth.. to expect the same development team that brought CoD to the market .. not pieces of the team.. but the decision makers themselves... and not see a degree of scpticism is unrealistic. Having said that I am sure that everyone in this thread even the sceptics and critics would like nothing more than to see this project succeed.

[FlatSpinMan]

Look, is this thread really serving any good purpose here? Especially the last couple of days it has become a venue for trashing Luthier, Oleg, and fellow simmers.

The Kick starter is what it is. A sincere, hopeful plea for community support. Maybe it couild have been done differently, maybe not. You can choose to pledge, or not, and either choice is perfectly justifiable and a matter for the individual to decide.

We want to allow discussion of this but just don't want any replaying of pointless, unwinnable old arguments and grudges with a mix of new ones. It just serves to irritate people and spoil the forum atmosphere.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Ive decided to give Luthier a break, hes trying to develop a sim that i "might" want to play at some point, i might even love it.

 

So from now on im just going to wait and see what happens, if i like it great, if i dont then i haven't lost anything.

 

Ive room on my HD drive for all the WW2 sims that will be around next year.

[Bearcat]

From the Nielsen 2008 study:5 years old study, but I guess the main idea is still valid. The "hard core" of the flight sim community is tiny, compared to popular gaming titles. In 2008, we were at 0.6% of what the then most popular game was. You can only be commercially successful if you make a product good enough to attract occasional players, but occasional players don't fund kickstarters. They come in after the thing has been published, and praised by international media.

All the more reason why folks should get behind this project.. Look if you are really leery you can pledge a weeks worth of beer money or the cost of a matinee movie for two... or one. You don't have to pledge the full cost of a new product but if you call yourself a simmer and you go on about sim vs game and you enjoy the sim offerings currently available then you should pledge something . There is a range that is wide enough to meet any budget or age bracket. A 12 year old getting $20 a week can do something here and still have a bit left over so...

[theOden]

So, we're allowed to say why we support this but not why we're not?

[DD_bongodriver]

So, we're allowed to say why we support this but not why we're not?

 

I believe if you can give a usefull reason not to support it beyond simply not being able to forgive Luthier for having bad days at work then fill yer boots.....reason away.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

I think there's actually a general principle at play here: I don't want to spend my money on something that is an unknown quantity.  That is nothing to do with tribalism or history,  I'd just like to see what it is I'm buying.

 

I appreciate the economic difficulties involved with producing and selling a niche videogame, but I've pre-ordered several titles recently (not just the obvious one) which have looked great in prospect, but have turned out to be a waste of money.  Some recovered with patches and so on (and are sold for a 10th the price within months) but others just get dropped by the publishers and you're left with  a turkey.

[Freycinet]

It is of course perfectly valid to not want to put money into DCS WWII. I would never "demand" that anybody does it.  These are trying times in the world economy and for lots of individuals, so if people don't want to wager on an unknown quantity that's perfectly fine. I'm just happy that a couple of thousand people are daring or economically comfortable enough to do it, because without seed money and pre-orders we wouldn't have ANY hi-fidelity flight sims to enjoy. I hope that those who withhold their contributions will remember that a few years down the road, when they're enjoying fully-fledged sims, but I'd never hold a grudge against them.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Freycinet

[Mac_Messer]

So, we're allowed to say why we support this but not why we're not?

Well you should come up with something better than badmouthing a prestarter project everytime just because you feel like it.

[Rjel]

I hope that those who withhold their contributions will remember that a few years down the road, when they're enjoying fully-fledged sims, but I'd never hold a grudge against them.

Having preordered BoS, I guess I can sleep well tonight knowing that.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I think there's actually a general principle at play here: I don't want to spend my money on something that is an unknown quantity.  That is nothing to do with tribalism or history,  I'd just like to see what it is I'm buying.

 

I appreciate the economic difficulties involved with producing and selling a niche videogame, but I've pre-ordered several titles recently (not just the obvious one) which have looked great in prospect, but have turned out to be a waste of money.  Some recovered with patches and so on (and are sold for a 10th the price within months) but others just get dropped by the publishers and you're left with  a turkey.

I look at is sharing the risk. We like and want quality sims, they have the enthusiasm and potential skill to make them. We both need each other and should be prepared to bare some of the risk, which if truth be told is really no risk at all on our part, unless you value the price of a couple of beers that much that you wouldn't give the developer, who has been involved in work that has defined 10 years of flight simiming when the genre had been all but given up for dead by many.

[Dutch]

I look at is sharing the risk. We like and want quality sims, they have the enthusiasm and potential skill to make them. We both need each other and should be prepared to bare some of the risk, which if truth be told is really no risk at all on our part, unless you value the price of a couple of beers that much that you wouldn't give the developer, who has been involved in work that has defined 10 years of flight simiming when the genre had been all but given up for dead by many.

 

Exactly Hagar the Horrible old Bean. If everyone who has pledged so far over the last two weeks pledged just another $10, they'd reach their target and more. Even Furbs, Tree and Falstaff can afford to lose that much, you know?.

[Freycinet]

Having preordered BoS, I guess I can sleep well tonight knowing that.

 

Except for that nagging feeling at the back of your head that you really ought to contribute just a little bit to the Kickstarter...  ;-)

[Freycinet]

Exactly Hagar the Horrible old Bean. If everyone who has pledged so far over the last two weeks pledged just another $10, they'd reach their target and more. Even Furbs, Tree and Falstaff can afford to lose that much, you know?.

 

Now, don't start sounding like a televangelist...

 

[BFsSmurfy]

I want that jumper, it`s bad taste day at work on Fri and that beauty will seal the deal!!!

Ps If everyone who bought BoS teamed up with everyone who pledged for DCS WW2 and agreed to buy/pledge $50 or the std pre-order everyone would benefit, ie I`ve bought Bos but I pledge $50 if someone who has pledged $50 on DCS buys the $49.99 pre-order for BoS, Utopia if only it was that simple!!!!, we need divine help from the fella above. I`ll get back in bed now, that`s enough crap for one day!!!!

Edited September 22, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Well you should come up with something better than badmouthing a prestarter project everytime just because you feel like it.

 

I thought that was quite ironic :D

I think I would have been swayed had it not been for the fact that the map didn't cover the SE of England...where are these P51s going to take off from? Is it going to be furballs/airstarts over Normandy?

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Don't worry about it, it looks like the kickstarter will succeed in spite of some peoples efforts to sabotage the effort.

Which is good news for everyone, and flight sims in general IMO. Maybe it would be good for people to ponder on the thought that no one would even be here if it wasn't for the efforts of Oleg Maddox  and Ilya Shevchenko several years ago.

[Zmaj76]

support what u want and dont support what u want....world wouldnt stop

[FlatSpinMan]

support what u want and dont support what u want....world wouldnt stop

Yep. I'd just add, "If you don't like something, ignore it - don't whine about it".

[Zmaj76]

Yep. I'd just add, "If you don't like something, ignore it - don't whine about it".

well if you bought a sim you truly love, nothing wrong to whine about serious issues in it,.....both devs and customers have their priorities and sim market is also changing.....i had my disapointments with lack of fixing fms in rof but im optimistic that it would be better with bos and dcs ww2 eu.....after all its bigger market and there are more docs around....as long as they wont go into massive cockpit production....

Edited September 22, 2013 by Tvrdi

[Bearcat]

Don't worry about it, it looks like the kickstarter will succeed in spite of some peoples efforts to sabotage the effort.Which is good news for everyone, and flight sims in general IMO. Maybe it would be good for people to ponder on the thought that no one would even be here if it wasn't for the efforts of Oleg Maddox and Ilya Shevchenko several years ago.

Uther you really need to can the drama.

 

Sabotage the the effort..? Really..? By choosing to not support the product? Look there were folks who had all kinds of reasons why they would not support BoS as well and they had nothing but complaints and glass half empty nonsense with every update... and some of those guys most of them now have gold or silver bars under their avatars but this came after weeks of incessant arm waving and drama queen posts .. If people choose to not support the DCS KS then that is their business.. It is a good thing to support IMO and I put my money where my mouth is like I did here ... If others choose not to do that then that is their business but to say that they are "sabotaging the effort" or attempting to is just more drama queen BS that some of you folks are now famous for. If you want to discuss the product then by all means do.. the fact that this thread is up here says volumes. So just relax and be happy that it looks like the KS goal will be reached. It will be up to the team to deliver now on their stated goals.. I just hope that there is more forthcoming than there has been thus far. I can't even go to the DCS site and find a prominently displayed update page from the team and some of the updates I have seen only raised eyebrows as opposed to expectations so from what I have seen more sabotage is coming from the team itself than anyone outside of it who has no influence or at best much less influence than the actions of the devs. None of this has made me withdraw or even loer my support pledge and I am sure that i am not alone in this even among the critics who at least did choose to support the project in spite of reservations. ...

 

.. and by the way .. I have not seen anything other than lip service on your "support" for BoS thus far either and that lip service based on another post in a different thread. but your choice to not support it.. or to support it and not show it for whatever reason that would be if i took you at your word that you did support the project, would still be YOUR CHOICE and in no way constitute you "sabotaging the effort" ... so ... stow that nonsense because to me it sounds like the same kind of rhetoric that poisoned other forums concerning another sim.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Yep. I'd just add, "If you don't like something, ignore it - don't whine about it".

 

Well there's whining and constructive feedback, I've not read the whole thread although knowing the flight sim community I can just imagine what some of the posts are like.

 

Having said that I wished they'd put a little more thought in to how they were going to do this, it feels very haphazard and disorganized to me. I hope it will become something good but I wouldn't put more money up front for another sim unless it felt exceptional. They really need to be 'selling the product' but instead it feels more like they're relying on past performances and a name from years ago and even a little bit of pity.

 

Good luck to them, we can never have too many flight sims

[heinkill]

13 days to go, only 4,000 dollars to go, 96000 pledged.

[FlatSpinMan]

I'm tired of this? Anyone else tired of this? You tired of this? Cos I am.

[Rjel]

I'm tired of this? Anyone else tired of this? You tired of this? Cos I am.

Yup. Maybe it's time to round up all the usual suspects?

[royraiden]

I'm tired of this? Anyone else tired of this? You tired of this? Cos I am.

Tired of what?

[AndyJWest]

Something for those complaining about the supposed lack of support for DCS:WW2 shown here to ponder: the DCS forum has 47,800 members. What does that tell you...

[Tektolnes]

Something for those complaining about the supposed lack of support for DCS:WW2 shown here to ponder: the DCS forum has 47,800 members. What does that tell you...

 

Doesn't tell much of anything really. A lot of the DCS crowd are only into the modern stuff and throw regular hissy fits about ED working on things like the Dora. But if you compare the number of backers with the apparent rough number of BOS pre-orders I honestly don't think it's doing badly considering where it's at in the project lifecycle.

[tempered]

 Around $3,000 and some pocket change to go and the kickstarter will be successful.  They are really going to need some serious attention to reach that first stretch goal.

[GP*]

Exactly Hagar the Horrible old Bean. If everyone who has pledged so far over the last two weeks pledged just another $10, they'd reach their target and more. Even Furbs, Tree and Falstaff can afford to lose that much, you know?.

You keep mentioning the "Furbs, Tree, Falstaff" nonsense in every post you make in this thread (three times now). You do realize that's part of his signature, right? And, consequently, has nothing to do with this thread in particular. Seriously, stop it. It's obnoxious and has nothing to do with what Furbs is saying.

 

But anyway, I've been watching this thread and the Kickstarter as a whole for a while now. Some people need to get off their high horse and stop acting so holier-than-thou for contributing to the Kickstarter. It's incredibly tacky to flaunt what you do with YOUR money, and expect others to follow suit for something you're trying to further via financial means. Especially when the project has such dubious mangers at the helm...

 

Lastly, people need to check their emotions at the door here. Just because some are openly doubting Luthier's ability to develop this sim, doesn't mean they're saying he's an awful person or anything. In a business such as this, your reputation is based on your past successes or failures, and there's nothing wrong with that. After all, business is business.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Really don't see them reaching any of the stretch goals, but I hope they will work on making those expansions anyway after initial release. It would be awesome to get to play scenario with B-17s doing a bombing run with p-51s and p-47s escorts and Fw-190 and Bf-109 intercepting.

[DD_bongodriver]

But anyway, I've been watching this thread and the Kickstarter as a whole for a while now. Some people need to get off their high horse and stop acting so holier-than-thou for contributing to the Kickstarter. It's incredibly tacky to flaunt what you do with YOUR money, and expect others to follow suit for something you're trying to further via financial means. Especially when the project has such dubious mangers at the helm...

 

 

Absolutely agree, may as well adorn yourself with a massive gold plaque saying........oh wait......

[Rjel]

Now that it looks assured the kickstarter campaign will be successful, can this thread be locked before it completely deteriorates? By now everyone is aware of each others opinion, their allegiances and contempt. It's obvious some here just stir the pot continually for whatever perverse pleasure they get from it. DCS has a forum to discuss this subject. It's better taken there.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Rjel

[Uufflakke]

Something for those complaining about the supposed lack of support for DCS:WW2 shown here to ponder: the DCS forum has 47,800 members. What does that tell you...

 

Not much.

More important is the number of visitors at the DCS WWII forum.

At the moment it is 13 visitors (2 members, 11 guests). And that is more often the rule than the exception.

Only in the beginning with the announcement of Kickstarter there was a constant number of at least 70 visitors.

And it is so easy to generate more traffic at their WWII forum: More interaction by the Dev team, regular updates (even a few very early WIP pre-alpha screenshots will be appreciated) and for God's sake make the updates easy to find on the site. Now the updates #1 to #4 are well hidden in the forum. So for a curious newcomer there ain't much to see and they won't turn back the next time.

[leitmotiv]

yes nice point, just look at forum numbers here on BoS when its time of live stream,  around 170 on this forum and around 380 on russian forum people at same time, every live strem they increase largest amount of people at same time number

Edited September 22, 2013 by Yaklover

[JG27_Chivas]

Absolutely agree, may as well adorn yourself with a massive gold plaque saying........oh wait......

That's funny