Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

[Tektolnes]

Wrong, totaly wrong, being part of DCS doesn't mean same quality!

ED have final quality control. If it's not up to their standards then it won't be released. They have a brand to protect so I'm not worried about the final quality. Also the flight and engine models are being done by the guy who did the P51 in DCS World so the experience to do that quality is there as well.

[BFsSmurfy]

^{I lowered mine to $10, the stretch goals have zero chance of being reached so the $40 pledge was $30 down the pan, some people seem to think the $40 pledge gets you the 190 & the 51...it doesn`t, the additional aircraft of your choice were out of the stretch targets, so if I`m reading that garbled page correctly no stretch = no additional planes for anyone. Now if someone said you can have planes of your choice made by RRG after they`ve been made regardless of the kickstarter I`d leave it at 40. but what`s the point as 10 gets you beta access, 3 flyables and 2 AI and a map, and I`m damn sure the 190 won`t be $75 when that comes out so there no point pledging $85 to get that.}

Edited September 18, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[Freycinet]

Wrong, totaly wrong, being part of DCS doesn't mean same quality!

Eagle Dynamics vouches for the quality of the products they release. They always have.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I actually increased my pledge to 85$, I'm not trying to get most bang for the buck, but to support project I hope to see succeeding.

[Tektolnes]

^{I lowered mine to $10, the stretch goals have zero chance of being reached so the $40 pledge was $30 down the pan, some people seem to think the $40 pledge gets you the 190 & the 51...it doesn`t, the additional aircraft of your choice were out of the stretch targets, so if I`m reading that garbled page correctly no stretch = no additional planes for anyone. Now if someone said you can have planes of your choice made by RRG after they`ve been made regardless of the kickstarter I`d leave it at 40. but what`s the point as 10 gets you beta access, 3 flyables and 2 AI and a map, and I`m damn sure the 190 won`t be $75 when that comes out so there no point pledging $85 to get that.}

 

 

The $20 would get you one of the P51 or Dora in DCS WW2. $30 would get you both the P51 and Dora in DCS WW2. $40 would get you all aircraft if stretch goals were hit - which won't happen so probably not the level for you if you're looking at this purely economically. To get immediate access to the P51 / Dora Beta once released in DCS World though you'd need to go for the higher levels. Admittedly it's a tortured way of describing it all and could probably due to with a final clarification from Ilya but that's the general understanding that people have.

[Feathered_IV]

I think he also said there was a basic free to play component as well.

[Tektolnes]

True - you'll get the P47D, 109K4 and Spitfire IX for free. In my opinion it's worth a punt at $30. I'm in for more as I want the Dora beta once released for DCS World and want to back the project overall anyway. But $30 gives you 5 planes to fly overall which is hard to knock.

[Feathered_IV]

Releasing the three all-new aircraft and map for free is an unusual move for a commercial company. I'm sure they will have to reconsider that later.

 

Does anybody know how long it took to make the P-51? It might be a useful yardstick to measure how long it will take them to complete the basic package. The twelve months that is currently estimated seems more inspired by BoS's development than a measured, realistic schedule.

[Bearcat]

Not much info yet.  Only three very small pieces of landscape.  Everything else seems to be the work of others.  Maybe if they can show something of substance before the campaign comes to an end they might see a bit more support.  So far there hasn't been the, "screenshots, videos, schedules, and the most detailed feature description you’ve ever seen on any flight sim ever" that Luthier originally promised.  Presumably they will be along in the next two weeks.  Sooner would be much better than later however if he wants to get the greatest benefit from it.

 

 

Uhhhhh that would be here wouldn't it..

 

(I'm just sayin.. )

[JG27_Chivas]

^{I lowered mine to $10, the stretch goals have zero chance of being reached so the $40 pledge was $30 down the pan, some people seem to think the $40 pledge gets you the 190 & the 51...it doesn`t, the additional aircraft of your choice were out of the stretch targets, so if I`m reading that garbled page correctly no stretch = no additional planes for anyone. Now if someone said you can have planes of your choice made by RRG after they`ve been made regardless of the kickstarter I`d leave it at 40. but what`s the point as 10 gets you beta access, 3 flyables and 2 AI and a map, and I`m damn sure the 190 won`t be $75 when that comes out so there no point pledging $85 to get that.}

 

 

You'd be wrong.

$0 gets you the free demo and three aircraft

$10 gets you the free demo and access to the beta 

$20 gets you the free demo and three aircraft plus your choice of the P51 or FW190 in DCS WW2 if the 100,000 goal is reached

$30 gets you the free demo and three aircraft plus the P51 and FW190 in DCS WW2 if the 100,000 goal is reached

$40 gets you the free demo and three aircraft plus the P51 and FW190 and any other aircraft built if stretch goals are made.

Of course your credit card won't be charged if the goal of 100,000 isn't reached

This is incredibly cheap.

But by all means pay whatever you think is fair.

Edited September 19, 2013 by JG27_Chivas

[gavagai]

Releasing the three all-new aircraft and map for free is an unusual move for a commercial company. I'm sure they will have to reconsider that later.

 

Does anybody know how long it took to make the P-51? It might be a useful yardstick to measure how long it will take them to complete the basic package. The twelve months that is currently estimated seems more inspired by BoS's development than a measured, realistic schedule.

 

They are going to use some P-51 components for other aircraft to speed up the development.  They are also going to simplify the way they model some things, like bends in a hydraulic system, etc.  So the development of the Spitfire, P-47, and 109 will be faster than it was for the P-51.

[Bearcat]

We have a tendency to dig in our heels on specific issues, and I am definitely guilty of that.  Not being happy with a developer's previous title makes us very squeamish.

 

Say some of us.. 'cause some of us are in with both feet and buttocks.. while others are not even going near the water so...

 

(.. again... I'm just sayin.... )

[Feathered_IV]

That sounds reasonable. Any idea how long the P-51 took to make btw?

 

Still not quite sure how the DCS WW2 is going to be profitable. If the map and ground assets are all being given away for free along with the three new aircraft, the only area they can get revenue is from the Dora and Mustang - already produced by other developers, I just can't figure out how they can make it worthwhile. :/

[Chuck_Owl]

Non-Official Brochure (Revision C):

http://www.scribd.com/doc/168449062/DCS-WWII-Non-Official-Brochure-Download-for-HD-version

 

Note: The version in Scribd is low-res. You can see the HD version if you download the pdf file itself or download the non-scribd HD version if you're not a Scribd member.

 

Alternate non-scribd HD version: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20586543/DCS%20WWII%20Non-Official%20Brochure_RevC.pdf

[Bearcat]

This should have been up 7-14 days ago.. great work.

[JG27_Chivas]

That sounds reasonable. Any idea how long the P-51 took to make btw?

 

Still not quite sure how the DCS WW2 is going to be profitable. If the map and ground assets are all being given away for free along with the three new aircraft, the only area they can get revenue is from the Dora and Mustang - already produced by other developers, I just can't figure out how they can make it worthwhile. :/

They're going to get a check for 100,000 dollars, hardly enough, but its a start.  Its not about the initial release its about the long haul, years of creating, and selling aircraft, theaters, etc.  Don't get me wrong the initial release is very important, and will sell, or kill future development, and sales.   They hope to be in it for the long haul, and I like most others hope they succeed.

[nirvi]

Interesting topic about the Jumo-213A of the FW-190, comparison of the original data and the dcs model.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114094

[BFsSmurfy]

"$30 gets you the free demo and three aircraft plus the P51 and FW190 in DCS WW2 if the 100,000 goal is reached"

 

If that`s true I`d up it to 30, perhaps if Shevchenko can be bothered to post anywhere I could ask him directly!!!

[Tektolnes]

Ilya confirmed it already. It's in this thread:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114011

 

So if you like combat flight sims and have the spare cash $30 seems like a decent punt to me.

[BFsSmurfy]

Thanks for digging that out, I`ll stick the extra $20 back in then, seems way too cheap, can`t understand the logic behind 3 free aircraft and a free game???

Edited September 19, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[Tektolnes]

My guess is that it's a couple of reasons. Firstly there's no getting away from what happened to before and he may feel that he needs to err on the generous side as a gesture of goodwill and trust. Then if people like the product future flyables that are released will get purchased and if the freebies were done to a high standard then there should be a decent base of consumers too. I still think 3 freebies was too much but I won't be complaining next Sept (or so)!

[Mac_Messer]

If I wasn`t so forgiving, I`d reduce my pledge to 10 bucks. Why? Because when I pledged 30$, I wanted the additional two aircraft of my choice. Those would have been the Typhoon and the Focke-Wulf as the next two flybles made and not given for free. Next thing I see is that a B17 takes that slot, so my Typhoon/Focke-Wulf hopes are finished. IMO it is this among the reasons why KS really slowed down.

 

Really no interest in the stretch goals being made.

[Mogster]

Realistic, in terms of the money already pledged, stretch goals may have helped. $150k for the Typhoon, $200k for the FW190A and upwards.

 

It's too late now.

 

I wonder if Luthier ever expected or really wanted the stretch goals to be met? Producing a map and 3 new DCS warbirds in 12 months is a lot to ask. Producing more planes could extend development and make people angsty. After all the Dora still isn't available.

[Matt]

I wonder if Luthier ever expected or really wanted the stretch goals to be met?

I thought i was the only one thinking like that. I mean, 275.000 USD extra for southern England (however that would've turned out) and the B-17 is quite a bit imho.

 

Anyway, the kickstarter is about half way done, seems quite obvious that it will reach the 100.000 USD goal and nothing else. Fair enough for me. I'm looking forward to flying the addtional 4 planes (i already own the P-15) over a new map.

[gavagai]

Say some of us.. 'cause some of us are in with both feet and buttocks.. while others are not even going near the water so...

 

(.. again... I'm just sayin.... )

 

A technical/software debacle like Clod is a very different thing.

 

Remember how the P-51 guns fire in Il-2 1946?  That's the kind of thing I'm hinting at.

 

Anyway, Luthier just posted at DCS.  He apologized for the delay in updates.  They are working hard to show more stuff.  He said he underestimated the expectation to see more completed content before the start of the KS.

[Mysticpuma]

Just put together a short unofficial promotional trailer

 

https://vimeo.com/74960856

 

Cheers, MP

[royraiden]

Superb job Mystic.It will surely be great to see what you can do once DCS WW2 and BOS are released.We are in for some great master pieces

[ram0506]

Well done, excellent work!

I wish Ilya would integrate it on his kickstarter page as an update.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Great trailer, loved the action shots from CoD.

 

Looking at the DCS P51 and Dora though reminded me though, and I know it's a really silly point and I've said it before, but for all the brilliance of the aircraft models in DCS, they're sterile.  They're sterile because I can't believe there's a real person in the cockpit (however daft that notion might seem), I look at the external footage and it looks like a wooden dummy at the controls, it just doesn't suck me in. Now that may change for the DCS WWII but as it's only a small non essential detail so probably not.  By comparison BoS is miles ahead in this area and hopefully those animations will be still further improved upon from those used in RoF, from which they are based, as have the pilot models.

[royraiden]

To be fair it looks a lot better than previous sims.Pilots on ROF and now on BOS look the best so far and that is a great attribute , but I had to point out that, that is not the norm.The good thing at least for me is that you can see the pilot when inside the cockpit moving the stick,rudder and throttle.Also the bailout animation is the best there is, be it on first or third person

[gavagai]

Great trailer, loved the action shots from CoD.

 

Looking at the DCS P51 and Dora though reminded me though, and I know it's a really silly point and I've said it before, but for all the brilliance of the aircraft models in DCS, they're sterile.  They're sterile because I can't believe there's a real person in the cockpit (however daft that notion might seem), I look at the external footage and it looks like a wooden dummy at the controls, it just doesn't suck me in. Now that may change for the DCS WWII but as it's only a small non essential detail so probably not.  By comparison BoS is miles ahead in this area and hopefully those animations will be still further improved upon from those used in RoF, from which they are based, as have the pilot models.

 

Said like a true, hardcore sim pilot!

[JG27_Chivas]

Thanks for digging that out, I`ll stick the extra $20 back in then, seems way too cheap, can`t understand the logic behind 3 free aircraft and a free game???

I agree, the pledge changes made the incentives a little confusing.   Especially when it was impossible to edit  some portions of kickstarter.   It is too cheap, but there is nothing stopping us from pledging a little more.   I would imagine they hope to be in the business for many years, building aircraft and theaters, so they're looking at the free demo and aircraft as a lost leader.   It will bring more people into the sim initially and if its good, they will stay making their market base larger.   For selfish reasons I pledged considerably more as their entertainment value has far out weighted any investments I've made in the genre.

[Rjel]

Great video. Like the BoS video released for the presale campaign, this is the type of video needed to draw a bigger audience. Why Oleg and co. never drew on your talents was always a mystery to me. Keep up the good work. I hope to see a lot of BoS stuff from you soon too.

[JG27_Chivas]

Excellent stuff, MysticPuma.   I'm not so sure IC would have let DCS/Oleg/Luthier use video of  the original Il-2 and COD.   

[Freycinet]

Just put together a short unofficial promotional trailer

 

https://vimeo.com/74960856

 

Cheers, MP

 

Mysticpuma, this message just went into the inboxes of my 1668 youtube channel subscribers:

 

"Hi subscribers! - I haven't made a vid for too long due to technical issues with Cliffs of Dover. Soon Team Fusion will release their patch and then I'll be back at it! :-)  In the meantime, check out this fantastic video by Mysticpuma: [link to your vid]   It is about the DCS WWII Kickstarter, which will hopefully bring us a new great WWII combat flight sim. Give it your support!"

 

Thanks so much for doing the vid! - I know you made some sacrifices for it, so very much appreciated.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Freycinet

[Freycinet]

Just posted Mysticpumas video on Reddit. Come over and give some upvotes and comments!

 

Flightsim subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/

Specific thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/1mqsnt/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_unofficial_promotional/

 

Il-2 subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/il2/

Specific thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/il2/comments/1mqtuu/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_unofficial_promotional/

 

Hoggit subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/

Specific thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1mqt3c/dcs_wwii_europe_1944_unofficial_promotional/

[Bearcat]

MP I like the video .. I just take umbrage with one part....

 

The line .. "The next generation of combat flight simulation .. waits to take to the skies.... "

 

The next generation of combat flight simulation will be on over 2000 hard drives very soon... and Niel you know where I am coming from.. I got nothing but respect for you and your work .. but it seems to me that with the announcement of the DCS KS .. a lot of people are acting like IL2 BoS is chopped liver... as if now that Oleg and Ilya may be back in the business everything else .. not to mention the last 10 months.. is rumor and innuendo.

 

That is not the case...  and I know you mean nothing by it.. and I don't want to turn this into the usual my balls are bigger than the other guys' kind of thing that it often degenerates to .. but it just kind of kills me how so many folks act like BoS is chopped liver.. just another flight sim coming out or that it will somehow be a welcome step up from War Thunder.. but the real sim will be out with DCS... .. now that the great and all powerful Oleg & Ilya team is back in the game.. I tell ya what.. when/if this thing does come out.. it will have it's space for sure and I hope like hell it succeeds because I have already dropped slightly less than I did for the BoS pre order into it.. because I am a flight sim junkie  .. and as I have often said.. WWII sims are my thing ...  my flight sim crack... but it will not be the only big dog on the track.. and it may not be the biggest dog .. so I am glad that good things loom in the WWII flight sim market... but let's not get it twisted here what is going on.. and as I said... the next generation of combat flight simulation will be starting .... in a matter of weeks.

 

Be sure.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

looks like Luthier just shot himself in the foot with this response!

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1879025&postcount=1198

[Injerin]

looks like Luthier just shot himself in the foot with this response!

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1879025&postcount=1198

Yea not very promising as far as getting new pledges.... I will most likely pledge but, I'm not seeing much development beyond the initial release due to the lack of funding

Edited September 20, 2013 by ANON6_Injerin

[kongxinga]

This defeatism is getting to me. I feel like dropping to 30 as well now. Got to hold fast.

 

Oleg's approach to modelling is not my cup of tea, so I don't think BOS is chopped liver. Frankly Oleg was a minus, but I like the P-47, and I am not getting it in Stalingrad anytime soon, hence my kick.