Unlock Modifications is a boring process to be honest...

[BlackDevil]

Did you compare it to the DCS FW? I can't - don't have the 190 in BOS. It think there's a serious weight issue in the BOS FM. If you have both please compare them.

Ground interaction is much better in BoS. That makes take off and landing more realistic. The difference in the air is smaller. But the D9 should be easier to fly, as it has an inline engine. (less gyro effect)

Edited October 27, 2014 by BlackDevil

[ST_ami7b5]

This post should be read by the developers.

... and those "EXP" pics really hurt my eyes badly.

[[KWN]T-oddball]

is somewhere updated developers status about unlocking vs multiplayer?

 

does they reading this forum or just no care as expected?

the die was cast a long time ago regarding the unlocks I doubt anything could change that, over time the hard feelings will subside and hopefully the positives of the game will outweigh the negatives.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Well, I'm glad the "2x on autopilot" approach is working for some folks, but apparently I'm not going to be able to do that.  I did manage to get past the "Esc key not working" bug (in that it has not recurred since it trashed my first tutorial mission), but I've had nothing but trouble with the post-tutorial missions.  

 

On my first attempt my 109 was rear-ended by the following AI plane on the runway.  Fortunately, I was still sitting there in front of my screen and saw that happen, so I didn't come back 20 minutes later only to realize the mission had failed.  The second time, I managed to get off the ground, but I sat there watching things go at 2x just in case something else went wrong.  After getting all the way to the action area and shooting down one of the enemy fighters, I watched my 109 and its 3 AI buddies circle pointlessly over the area for the next several minutes.  There was no sign of the enemy bombers, which apparently had passed through the area while we were being engaged by the enemy fighter.  I finally got tired of watching the 109s go around in circles, so I bailed out:

 

 

Something I wish I could do from this unlock process

 

After that debacle, I learned I had gained a whopping 6 EXP:

 

 

Apparently, it forgot I had managed to take off, so I didn't even get half of those points.  RUK?

 

So then, I decided that maybe an intercept mission was not the way to go, so I selected an escort mission for the next try.  After getting all the way to the action area, shooting down an enemy fighter who was threatening the Stukas we were escorting, and making it safely all the way back till our airfield was in sight, I watched in simulated horror as one of my AI buddy 109s rammed into me on the landing approach - another bailout, and another paltry points result after all that time:

 

 

By the way - in what alternate universe does it make sense that shooting down an enemy plane would be worth less than half the points you get from just taking off?

 

 

At this rate, I'm likely to lose interest before I can get to the end of this process.  Oh wait ... that's already happened.  I'll check back in a few weeks and see how things are going.  Hopefully things will be better by then.

I do think something has changed. I could start a mission on normal/auto/2x speed come back in 30 minutes hit esc and collect my points.  Now each mission I run I crash,or AI ram me for no points. Put your tinfoil hats on but I think the devs got wise to our auto missions and introduced some random failures. :D  I did run a few missions on full real but I can't seem to pull up the mini map, only the O key works, is that normal?.

[Brano]

By the way - in what alternate universe does it make sense that shooting down an enemy plane would be worth less than half the points you get from just taking off

At this rate, I'm likely to lose interest before I can get to the end of this process.  Oh wait ... that's already happened.  I'll check back in a few weeks and see how things are going.  Hopefully things will be better by then.

You killed one enemy and you killed your own machine.

+1-1=0

[avlSteve]

Put your tinfoil hats on but I think the devs got wise to our auto missions and introduced some random failures. :D

 

I think what happens is, the more you progress, the harder it becomes; more action, much deadlier AAA, etc.  So if you're on autopilot at 500 meters and overfly that enemy airfield, you might have some issues. 

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I think what happens is, the more you progress, the harder it becomes; more action, much deadlier AAA, etc.  So if you're on autopilot at 500 meters and overfly that enemy airfield, you might have some issues. 

Maybe but 3rd mission in a stuka on the first campaign? I went through most of the Lagg unlocks with no problem on auto..I know I shouldn't but I did. I'm still keeping my tinfoil hat on!

[kozo]

^{the point is that everyone who raising hands for no unlocking for multiplayer, shoul not play SP campains then. lets degrade the game to all same basic green planes as developers wants, and share videos as usual on your channels...}

 

^{if we asking for no grinding and they can see that almost everyone finaly play campains, there is no force to change their mind}

[BladeMeister]

Hmmm, disaccord abounds. I have to concur, BOS and unlocks do not mix, amongst other things.

 

S!Blade<><

[Mac_Messer]

There is one thing that bothers me with DCS dora.I can´t stall it whatever crazy maneuvers I push it into.

Sorry for OT

You prolly have problem with ur joystick

Did you compare it to the DCS FW? I can't - don't have the 190 in BOS. It think there's a serious weight issue in the BOS FM. If you have both please compare them.

That is doubtful. The Anton and the Dora are two very different aircraft.

[Mac_Messer]

The unlocks aren't going anywhere, lets stop whining. It's only 10-15 missions per plane.

On the bright side, and whoever disagrees with this is a liar, the campaign really improved my ground attack skills.

 

199th post on this thread, this thread should be locked, it's getting out of hand, it's not productive anymore, and is now just fodder for people who've barely played the game.

I think it is safe to say that squad training with ground attack gives more learning quality. And in a bit more realistic environment.

As far as I know Bf109F4 and G2 were pure fighter versions.Any bombload was smtg rare,nonstandard.ETC500 bombrack has been produced only in small quantities for G2 and F4 20mm gunpods were also built only in few hundreds.

Fw190 A3 detto.No bombloads available for it as standard.Outer wing 20mm MGFF cannons can be a bit of controversy.Some publications suggests that they were not commonly equipped (to save weight and increase performance) on easrtern front.This can be a question of disputes.

Do you have a problem with having options? We`re talking multiplayer scene, amongst others. Surely the Soviet fighters have no bombloads available?

[TG-55Panthercules]

You killed one enemy and you killed your own machine.

+1-1=0

 

Clever - but it you do the math it's clear from the two mission results screens I posted that the point total awarded for shooting down an enemy fighter is 12 EXP, compared to the 30 EXP you get for just taking off - so, less than half as I stated.

 

It's that sort of WTF? moment you have when you see that kind of result that makes you really question the point of this whole unlock process.  Maybe this is just a compromise to make sure that anybody can get the EXP needed for unlocks without having any real combat skills at all - but if that's really the case, that just seems like another reason to wonder why they would bother to make anybody go through this in the first place.  

 

But the basic problem is that by making the seemingly inexplicable decision not to make this unlock thing optional instead of mandatory, they've put themselves into a no win situation - if they make the process more "legitimate" (i.e., hard and long to do because it requires actual practice and progression of skills) they'll really piss off the large segment of their core market of players who hate the idea in the first place and already resent having to spend any time playing SP in order to be able to play a full-bodied MP game (as well as those SP players who don't really want to "level up" their pilots like they were dark elf ninja warlocks), and if they make the process easier or more "gameable" via time compression and auto-pilot or EXP point award criteria so that it becomes a trivial exercise they're tacitly admitting that the whole concept is bogus to begin with and they shouldn't be requiring players to plow through it.  

 

The real answer here, IMHO, is to issue a statement to the effect that the unlock system has proven to be a great thing for players who like that sort of thing (thus not having to lose face or eat crow or whatever) and thus it will be kept in the game, but that it will be made optional for those players who want to play the sim on a more historical level.  Storm over, everybody wins, and we can move on to try to enjoy what seems like it could be an amazingly good sim with a little more polishing.

Edited October 28, 2014 by TG-55Panthercules

[TP-Bloomster]

Why are developers so lazy now when it comes to campaigns? where has the immersion gone out of flight sims, the whole point of these games is a simulation! so where is the simulation in unlocking weapons? where has the flying with a squadron part gone from the word 'Campaign' it is not a campaign it is more like a sonic the hedgehog collect as many gold rings as you can.

 

Sorry guys but what RUBBISH!

 

At least in ROF you at least gave a two 3rds attempt at a career campaign this is just pure Narnia! 

 

VoX.

[Marq_Tex]

Best advice I can give you... get some friends and fly Multiplayer!    Had an absolute blast on the Loose Deuce server tonight with the rest of the TWB crew.  

 

Unlocks you NEED to participate in aerial combat:

    109:  Headrest removal if very helpful for rear vision but not required (2 missions at most for each the F and for the G)

     Yak:  None.  you don't need any unlocks.

 

Yeah single player blows and is an utter waste of time... so dip into where the real action is and start loving this game.

 

Check out some fun highlights here:  http://www.twitch.tv/pand_twb/profile

Its only that, nothing more

[LBR=H-Ostermann]

Maybe but 3rd mission in a stuka on the first campaign? I went through most of the Lagg unlocks with no problem on auto..I know I shouldn't but I did. I'm still keeping my tinfoil hat on!

Really? You shouldn't play your game the way you want?

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Really? You shouldn't play your game the way you want?

I guess not here. Thing is I don't want to play SP at all, I'm doing it to get through the unlocks, power ups, level ups, whatever the  play station terminology is today to get back to the way it was before update 81. So auto it is but that is not working now, you crash or get rammed and die..0 points. As I see it you must fly without auto 2x speed to finish or get any points. My last 3 auto 2X runs..nadda nothing..big fat 0. either AI got me or a fail on landing.

 

EDIT " either AI got me or a fail on landing." And I mean my own AI!

Edited October 28, 2014 by Blackwolf

[indiaciki]

There is one thing that bothers me with DCS dora.I can´t stall it whatever crazy maneuvers I push it into.

Sorry for OT

 

flew her today. The DCS dora is a joke. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I am glad I grinded all the unlocks before the crashes became more apparent lately. And these unlocks are nothing but that, a horrible grind without any real purpose. Pilot levels, when they could have been promotions. Medals are from a fantasy shop. Where are the HSU, Order of Lenin, Iron Cross and others? I could fully understand these unlocks or whatever, if they actually were historically researched "field modifications" and awards tied to this time of the Stalingrad battle portrayed. But they seem not to be tied to anything at all, just get dadoodah amount of XP to unlock skin this or that or equipment extraordinaire. Get a few shiny badges and pilot level as well.

 

  And some skins, even voted by community, are not even remotely affiliated with Stalingrad. A Stalingrad skinpack would add a lot more than skins not related to the battle at all. Then this totally lifeless(those spawns along your route do not count as dynamic or lifelike), faceless and non-immersive campaign with only 2 difficulty settings now crashing more than running and devs do not have to wonder the slightest why people are frustrated. I feel sorry for those who are going through the grind, even with 2X speed acceleration. With a little more thought and bam, a lot better experience.

Edited October 28, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

[indiaciki]

S!

 

 I am glad I grinded all the unlocks before the crashes became more apparent lately. And these unlocks are nothing but that, a horrible grind without any real purpose. Pilot levels, when they could have been promotions. Medals are from a fantasy shop. Where are the HSU, Order of Lenin, Iron Cross and others? I could fully understand these unlocks or whatever, if they actually were historically researched "field modifications" and awards tied to this time of the Stalingrad battle portrayed. But they seem not to be tied to anything at all, just get dadoodah amount of XP to unlock skin this or that or equipment extraordinaire. Get a few shiny badges and pilot level as well.

 

  And some skins, even voted by community, are not even remotely affiliated with Stalingrad. A Stalingrad skinpack would add a lot more than skins not related to the battle at all. Then this totally lifeless(those spawns along your route do not count as dynamic or lifelike), faceless and non-immersive campaign with only 2 difficulty settings now crashing more than running and devs do not have to wonder the slightest why people are frustrated. I feel sorry for those who are going through the grind, even with 2X speed acceleration. With a little more thought and bam, a lot better experience.

 

It's a business decision I think. Steam and "Game" necessity. I talked to my son today. All his friends play steam games for unlocks only. Gratification - Skinner conditioning.

[Dutch]

You have to be kidding. I flew around in the Syn server for a bloody hour. I saw some smoke on the ground, I saw one other aircraft, but he eluded me, but judging from the planform, he was a friendly. It was the most boring hour I've spent in a long time, and believe me, they are numerous. Bloody hopeless.

 

In the 14-18 war, I'd expect the skies to be relatively empty. That's why I thought that the RoF Career was ok. At Stalingrad things were different. Just a bit..

 

STOP PRESS!!! You blokes are talking about DCS. Sorry, wrong forum. I apologise.

[FlatSpinMan]

Discuss DCS elsewhere.

[dkoor]

It's a business decision I think. Steam and "Game" necessity. I talked to my son today. All his friends play steam games for unlocks only. Gratification - Skinner conditioning.

Yep, could be...

 

I played excellent game Left4Dead2 but there weren't ANY unlocks, but Achievements!

 

And that's muuuch better if you ask me.

 

Kind of statistics on steroids, if you will... for example, for one achiv you gotta run thru the map killing zombies only with cold weapons, no guns allowed and such.

 

I could understand such approach in our game here too, heck I would even wholeheartedly support it!

However, this unlocking system is a failure.

I hope they get rid of it ASAP.

[mondog]

They can be used in the same respect unlocks are in place i.e. they require you to do X to get it. So people chase them. It's no different to getting a medal or a status. They'd just need to be setup in such a way they encourage positive behaviour i.e. x number of successful landings or take offs, x number of kills in a single flight, making a successful landing with a dead engine, flying a campaign where you never use the Finish option unless on the ground or having bailed out for instance. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

They can be used in the same respect unlocks are in place i.e. they require you to do X to get it. So people chase them. It's no different to getting a medal or a status. They'd just need to be setup in such a way they encourage positive behaviour i.e. x number of successful landings or take offs, x number of kills in a single flight, making a successful landing with a dead engine, flying a campaign where you never use the Finish option unless on the ground or having bailed out for instance.

Unlocks should also possess some degree of mystery or surprise. Having to unlock the wing guns in the 190 is silly and having to unlock.. empty space where the headrest was in the 109 is just downright asinine.

 

The entire unlock system in BoS, at present, is pedantic. Good ideas have been bandied about users and the fact that no official word or response has been given toward the more popular ideas is saddening.

[dkoor]

Example;

 

[Tyberan]

It also doesn't help when getting mission failed when you actually do the task required to complete it. Case in point, mission in Stuka to destroy bridge. I dive bomb near the bank, destroy 3 sections of bridge, 2xAAA, 2 soft targets. Mission failed. I fly to exit point, no option to complete mission, so I have to cancel it because I CBF landing at base and wasting another 15mins when I could restart a mission. 

 

Mission stats and xp at end of mission says that Ive destroyed 3 buildings, and said other equipment, but only got 24xp for 20mins of flying. yay. 

 

Honestly the campaign is giving me the shits now, all I want is the 37mm cannons for the stuka, but now I have to quick play the campaign to achieve this. I should be playing the campaign my way, with my own custom difficulty, I should be able to have some input into how many wingman I can have instead of getting suicide missions as sole aircraft. i want to stop and smell the roses and enjoy the game but I'm not. 

 

Also Just realised that Bombing missions for Stuka limit your bomb load to 1000kg or 1800kg bomb, so when you get the mission to attack artillary even with a 1800kg bomb you will only kill one arty, its more efficient to use MG's

Edited October 28, 2014 by Tyberan

[Brano]

1.I have no problem with my joystick

2.I have no problem with options.For 109F4,G2 and Fw190A3 it is like it is and was.Pure fighter versions.Soviet fighters with bombload were mandatory order from STAVKA towards manufacturers.I do not have time to search for detailed order nr. but if you are interested,I can find it out later evening at my place.

3.Complaining about putting game in full autopilot and then wondering things go strange way is not worth to be checked by devs.

[dkoor]

It also doesn't help when getting mission failed when you actually do the task required to complete it. Case in point, mission in Stuka to destroy bridge. I dive bomb near the bank, destroy 3 sections of bridge, 2xAAA, 2 soft targets. Mission failed. I fly to exit point, no option to complete mission, so I have to cancel it because I CBF landing at base and wasting another 15mins when I could restart a mission. 

 

Mission stats and xp at end of mission says that Ive destroyed 3 buildings, and said other equipment, but only got 24xp for 20mins of flying. yay. 

 

Honestly the campaign is giving me the shits now, all I want is the 37mm cannons for the stuka, but now I have to quick play the campaign to achieve this. I should be playing the campaign my way, with my own custom difficulty, I should be able to have some input into how many wingman I can have instead of getting suicide missions as sole aircraft. i want to stop and smell the roses and enjoy the game but I'm not. 

 

Also Just realised that Bombing missions for Stuka limit your bomb load to 1000kg or 1800kg bomb, so when you get the mission to attack artillary even with a 1800kg bomb you will only kill one arty, its more efficient to use MG's

It is perhaps the best plan to use take off and landing and select shortest route mission.

You get majority of pts for take off and landing... and kill ONLY enough targets to get "mission done/task completed" message.

 

It's the fastest way.

Easiest missions, for me at least, for Ju-87 are Artillery Support, destroy those 4 enemy guns and you're done.

You can do it with MG's solely.

[LBR=H-Ostermann]

You who call these "things" field mods don't seem to be aware that units got the gear they needed for the completion of their mission. The Stuka tank buster units got the guns necessary for the job if supply was doing it's job. From a boot pilot to the unit commander. The equipment weren't issued out according to personal experience as these unlocks seem to allude. That's like saying I was issued a BB gun when I joined the Marine Corps until I proved worthy of carrying an M-16.

  Sure some of the planes in units that had a mission re-assignment, from a fighter unit to Jabo in relation to bomb rack fitment for example, might be missing a few pieces if supply was a bit slow in providing the necessities. But if the racks were available every plane was fitted out and every pilot expected, after some minor classroom time perhaps (if time permitted), to carry out the new mission regardless of personal XP. 

 

 Unlocks based on pilot experience are arcade and has nothing to do with reality. You can call it whatever you like, in war there wouldn't have been any man given less equipment if it meant the unit's mission would have suffered.

 

 As a CG coxswain I used one boat to qualify as a coxswain but was expected to be able to use any of the station's boats as the mission dictated. Smear some more lipstick on the pig. The game's "field mods" are arcade and don't simulate real life at all. Who said a rose by any other name....

[Brano]

There was always certain equipment given with priority to most experienced units.Was it Guards units of soviets or Waffen SS for germans since 43.Not every man in german army was equipped with StG44 and not every soviet pilot was flying La7.There were no stuka tankbusters in battle of Stalingrad with 37mm guns,so yes,thats an unlock of ''what if'' weapon.We can also admit that there were maybe some units experimenting with adding this weapon to their standard D series,and then yes,it was a field mod (and there really were some but only from early 1943) We can start raising our eyebrows when Ju87G will be released without it.

[wellenbrecher]

Grinding the unlocks in the Ju87 is actually entertaining, I found.

Short mission, expert, take the 1800 kg bomb (or the 1000kg one before you unlock that one) and take on a supply depot. 280 EXP for utterly minimal effort, risk and time spent.

And you get a nice and pretty explosions to send  you on your way as a nice bonus! 

 

Shame you can't do it like that for the other planes. :c

Also shame that the Ju87 is one of the planes where the unlocks are pretty much utterly unnecessary if you're not hell-bent on going tank hunting. It's the first plane in SP where I didn't find myself shouting at the screen the whole time because of the lack of time acceleration.

Edited October 28, 2014 by [JG2]G3_wellenbrecher

[LukeFF]

 

 

You who call these "things" field mods don't seem to be aware that units got the gear they needed for the completion of their mission. The Stuka tank buster units got the guns necessary for the job if supply was doing it's job. From a boot pilot to the unit commander. The equipment weren't issued out according to personal experience as these unlocks seem to allude. That's like saying I was issued a BB gun when I joined the Marine Corps until I proved worthy of carrying an M-16.  

 

Sure some of the planes in units that had a mission re-assignment, from a fighter unit to Jabo in relation to bomb rack fitment for example, might be missing a few pieces if supply was a bit slow in providing the necessities. But if the racks were available every plane was fitted out and every pilot expected, after some minor classroom time perhaps (if time permitted), to carry out the new mission regardless of personal XP. 

 

Some of the unlocks though were limited and can truly be called field mods. The Il-2 rear gunner unlock? Totally a field mod. The super-large bombs for the Stuka and He 111 were in extremely limited supply, used for very specific targets, and could be employed only when higher command deemed their use necessary. Removing headrest armor from a 109 was most certainly a field mod and certainly not something that an Unteroffizier or Leutnant fresh to frontline combat could/would demand his ground crew to change. 

[dkoor]

Grinding the unlocks in the Ju87 is actually entertaining, I found.

Short mission, expert, take the 1800 kg bomb (or the 1000kg one before you unlock that one) and take on a supply depot. 280 EXP for utterly minimal effort, risk and time spent.

And you get a nice and pretty explosions to send  you on your way as a nice bonus! 

 

Shame you can't do it like that for the other planes. :c

Also shame that the Ju87 is one of the planes where the unlocks are pretty much utterly unnecessary if you're not hell-bent on going tank hunting. It's the first plane in SP where I didn't find myself shouting at the screen the whole time because of the lack of time acceleration.

Yep, someone advise doing attack planes first, as difficulty raises with your pilot Exp and level.

 

I agree... I have noticed that my game is noticeably harder now on level 8 that it was on lower levels, flak is merciless.

Luckily I already done Il-2, Pe-2 and Ju-87. Now doing underdog LaGG-3 after that probably Heinkel.

[wellenbrecher]

You mean Zettman's post?

Yeah that caused me to do the Il2 and Stuka at this point even though I hardly fly them online.

 

And everyone hating the campaign experience and being forced through it - like me, mind - do a Ju87 sortie with the settings described above every now and then. It's a nice interruption from the boredom and the grind IMO, or maybe I'm just so much of a sucker for dive bombing that I forget how stupid it is 

Anyway, so far the Ju87 is the most enjoyable bit of the grind, which was the original point.

[dkoor]

Yeah, it was his post.

 

Anyhow, so far the easiest one I flew is Il-2, really does the job so efficiently.

If you miss with rockets and bombs there are always high caliber cannons to the rescue.
At times felt like cheating.

Edited October 28, 2014 by dkoor

[wellenbrecher]

For the IL2 I only went so far to get the rear gunner and completely white camo.

I was debating to get the HE rockets at some point, but then decided that was too much effort for too little gain. I can't aim with those things anyway and prefer to bring bombs, so there's that.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Some of the unlocks though were limited and can truly be called field mods. The Il-2 rear gunner unlock? Totally a field mod. The super-large bombs for the Stuka and He 111 were in extremely limited supply, used for very specific targets, and could be employed only when higher command deemed their use necessary. Removing headrest armor from a 109 was most certainly a field mod and certainly not something that an Unteroffizier or Leutnant fresh to frontline combat could/would demand his ground crew to change. 

 

Can you prove any of that with a graph or a chart? We don't do much with anecdotal evidence around here... 

[LukeFF]

Can you prove any of that with a graph or a chart? We don't do much with anecdotal evidence around here... 

 

Why would I bother trying to prove anything to you? It's obvious from your post history that you love to antagonize and stir people up.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Why would I bother trying to prove anything to you? It's obvious from your post history that you love to antagonize and stir people up.

 

Nope, Luke. I love calling BS when I see it. 

[dkoor]

For the IL2 I only went so far to get the rear gunner and completely white camo.

I was debating to get the HE rockets at some point, but then decided that was too much effort for too little gain. I can't aim with those things anyway and prefer to bring bombs, so there's that.

I agree again, rockets seem to be very ineffective weapon in my arsenal too.