US planes in the future?

[Vig]

I recall that there was a problem with US manufacturers insisting on licensing fees for use of representations of their WWII aircraft back in IL-2 1946.  Does that mean no P-39?  Also, is there any chance that we will eventually progress to an "IL2 BOS in the Pacific" with this project, or is that completely off the table?

Edited August 31, 2013 by Vig

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

all things are possible if things are going well from a financal viewpoint i guess.

Anyway, i belive the first US build planesthat will appear will be P-39, P-40 and A-20 in a Kuban 1943 AdOn scenario. 777 even could use their water technologie from the RoF channel map than

[Freycinet]

I believe the licensing issue means that only US planes up to and including the P-36 will be possible...  ;-)

 

Can't wait to fly the Peashooter in WWII!

[Zak]

all things are possible if things are going well from a financal viewpoint i guess.

Anyway, i belive the first US build planesthat will appear will be P-39, P-40 and A-20 in a Kuban 1943 AdOn scenario. 777 even could use their water technologie from the RoF channel map than

Frankyboy, you're correct. Both about possibilities in future and the considered planes. P-40 hopefully appears even earlier

[Jaws2002]

P-40 is a cool bird to fly on any front.   

[BlitzPig_EL]

P-40 is a cool bird to fly on any front.   

 

Indeed.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Wasn't this all just to do with "Grumman" aeroplanes back in the day of Pacific Fighters? I've got the whole thing saved somewhere.

[Jason_Williams]

No legal discussion on our boards. All posts will be deleted.

 

Jason

[II./JG27_Rich]

Rgr that understood.

[JG4Helofly]

P 40 would be awesome. 109 vs P40 was the best setup for dogfight servers in the old IL2 imo.

The P 40 was also a very nice airplane to fly and to fight in. On the other hand I never liked the P 39

[Finkeren]

We're not even past Alpha of a portrayal of one battle on the Eastern Front, and already people want to know, when they're gonna get their precious American airplanes and move on to a theatre, they're more familiar with?

 

Apart from the more common Lend-Lease planes like P-39, Hurricane and P-40, and perhaps some Finnish imports, American/British aircraft have no place in this sim for the first decade to come IMHO.

[Rjel]

We're not even past Alpha of a portrayal of one battle on the Eastern Front, and already people want to know, when they're gonna get their precious American airplanes and move on to a theatre, they're more familiar with?

 

Apart from the more common Lend-Lease planes like P-39, Hurricane and P-40, and perhaps some Finnish imports, American/British aircraft have no place in this sim for the first decade to come IMHO.

 

Well don't take it so personally. I doubt we'll see BoS' offspring (hopefully there will be) pigeon holed into the Eastern Front exclusively for a full decade. So many areas to explore that will appeal to the majority of users as much as the East does to you. 

Edited September 1, 2013 by Rjel

[JG4_Greif]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/745-poll-what-soviet-lend-lease-fighter-are-you-looking-forward/

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Well don't take it so personally. I doubt we'll see BoS' offspring (hopefully there will be) pigeon holed into the Eastern Front exclusively for a full decade. So many areas to explore that will appeal to the majority of users as much as the East does to you. 

 

Agreed but for me the problem with going straight to 1944/1945 without missing a turn is it becomes harder to get people interested in the early war years again. Even Stalingrad is mid war. This is especially true for the online people, When I played IL2 10 years ago it was very hard to get people to fly the Emil for example.

[Bearcat]

We're not even past Alpha of a portrayal of one battle on the Eastern Front, and already people want to know, when they're gonna get their precious American airplanes and move on to a theatre, they're more familiar with?

 

Apart from the more common Lend-Lease planes like P-39, Hurricane and P-40, and perhaps some Finnish imports, American/British aircraft have no place in this sim for the first decade to come IMHO.

 

That isn't what he said at all that is what you read.. What he said was..

 

 Does that mean no P-39?  Also, is there any chance that we will eventually progress to an "IL2 BOS in the Pacific" with this project, or is that completely off the table?

 

I think it is a legitimate question and minus the whole legal bit certainly doesn't warrant the snotty sarcasm ... Whatever happens I sure as h@ll hope and doubt very seriously that it will take a decade to get some different allied aircraft into the sim other than whatever was on lend lease. You are of course entitled to your opinion. Holding off on late war aircraft so that people will fly early war stuff for a decade would IMO be a poor business decision and one that 1CGS is most likely NOT to make  given the thought gone into this sim up to this point that so far has been great.. although I certainly understand where Emil is coming from .. and I am not saying I would like to see this new incarnation of IL2 move straight from Stalingrad to 1945 and Berlin... but I do hope that a decade from now it is fully fleshed out from 39-45 even if not as fully stocked as the current IL2 and at least containing the major players. I also believe/hope that in addition to refining the WWII sim genre that 1CGS will also redefine the flight sim  business model (as they already have with RoF) further, just as the original IL2 set unprecedented levels of developer support in a flight sim and was a large factor in IL2's success.

 

I also hope that that same nasty anti American attitude that was so pervasive in the IL2 community in the early days doesn't attempt to rear it's ugly head here as well because it is uncalled for and counter productive across the board.

[Original_Uwe]

Fact is that they need to branch out to keep western players interested.

 

We tend to get bored beating up on Russian crates. Give us some tomohawks, Spits, Hurries, -38s and -47s to beat up on and am Italian map! No need to rush to the end game but please, 10 years on the Russian front is a sure way to kill this Sim.

[ShamrockOneFive]

If things go well then I say ... do Operation Overlord/D-Day and you'll have the US market with no trouble.

 

Or be a bit more risky and interesting and do North Africa where tactical air power and strategic air power were worked together in concert with troops on the ground for the first time.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Fact is that they need to branch out to keep western players interested.

 

We tend to get bored beating up on Russian crates. Give us some tomohawks, Spits, Hurries, -38s and -47s to beat up on and am Italian map! No need to rush to the end game but please, 10 years on the Russian front is a sure way to kill this Sim.

 

Yep I think a chronological approach would be a good idea although we've already skipped passed the middle of the war so that's not really possible now. To have US and allied aircraft in the sim. It's still doable with an Eastern front setting P-39 Hurricane etc and a Med/North Africa map would work pretty well although I have reservations about it because I'm not sure a single map could cover enough of that theater? and I would also like to see the right level of details especially the mixture of colours you see in the North of those countries, it's not desert right up to the sea.

[Finkeren]

Fact is that they need to branch out to keep western players interested.

 

We tend to get bored beating up on Russian crates. Give us some tomohawks, Spits, Hurries, -38s and -47s to beat up on and am Italian map! No need to rush to the end game but please, 10 years on the Russian front is a sure way to kill this Sim.

When I said "a decade", it was hyperbole, Of course it doesn't have to be that long.

 

However, I completely disagree, that you absolutely have to expand beyond the Eastern Front to "keep western players interested". I'm a "western" player, in the sense that I live en the "old west bloc" part of Europe, and my interest is overwhelmingly on the Eastern Front. Red Orchestra did fine with the Great Patriotic War for nearly 10 years before moving on to the Pacific, why would BoS be any different, given that both sims attract many of the same dedicated players?

 

In fact, I find it a bit annoying, that people more or less take for granted, that you can't get an American audience interested in a video game, if they can't play as Americans or at least use American weaponry. Who honestly thinks Americans are so shallow?

 

The glamour surrounding American aircraft of WW2 is well known (some of it well deserved, some of it not) But every single one of the iconic American crates has been done to death a million times, while IL2 is the ONLY sim that has ever really covered the huge topic of the air war in the East. I think we can live without another US-centered flight sim for a few years, while we complete what's started with BoS.

 

I would love to see this sim move to for instance the MTO, but not until the Eastern Front is covered at least as well as it was with the release of IL-2FB back in the day.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Finkeren

[Panzerlang]

It would have made historical and aesthetic sense to start this series with Barbarossa but I suspect financial sense put the mockers on that. Emils vs Polikarpovs and all that jazz. RoF was done the same way, we were dropped straight into mid/end and even now we still don't have all the early/mid planes.

 

Money always becomes the obstacle, but always because the simming public have little aesthetic discretion. Or so devs, in general, believe. Would a Barbarossa sim have been successful?

[BeastyBaiter]

1942 on the Russian front is a good place to start imho. I think the best route would be to expand out from that without really changing time period. 1942-43 is a pretty interesting period of the war on all fronts. It's also very easy to expand from Stalingrad. Stalingrad included the Italians and although I don't know if it included any lend-lease Hurricanes, P-40's or P-39's, these planes were representative of the VVS in late 1942/43.  A Kuban/Crimea expansion is the next logical area as this would include pretty much all the major lend-lease planes of the era. Once that is done, North Africa requires little more than a new map and a few allied bombers since virtually all the fighters are already in place. At that point, a Pacific expansion is also on the table. The USAAF planes would be in place leaving only the Japanese  and USN to be built from scratch. Fortunately, neither of them had a huge variety of planes in service at any given time and place.

 

Starting in 1939 for the BoB or BoF would be much more restrictive. Additionally it would have come into direct competition with its pseudo predecessor CloD and that would be a big financial mistake. Starting in 1941 with the invasion of Russia would have also been a difficult sell. The I-153 is a cool plane and I'd fly it against 109's, but I can't imagine that kind of 1 sided fight would hold much widespread appeal, especially for the Russian audience. 1942 is a little more even and as such, easier to market. Pretty much everything from 1941 was still around though, so they could add those early planes without any issues.

[leitmotiv]

In ADW server you started the war with Barbarossa (Lviv)1941 and go on untill 1945 Berlin, if you wont to win war first battles are also important (as your side gets points for winning every Battlefield map, and overall points win the war), so in best days of ADW you had almost same number of players on both sides playing first 4-5 battles until Kuban 1942 (took 20-30 days to reach this map) with old airplanes,same as the in the rest battle maps with new airplanes. Key was playing for winning war and battlefield map, not some player stats (although there was players on german and russian side that would play only parts of war that is good for his side early maps or later maps )

 

on DF servers this early maps dosent work, usealy when you have early war map most of flyers leves the server as they are more for personal stats and not so mutch for objective, and even if some maps can be finished with completing objectives they dont have what so ever influance on next maps

 

The best news i see in this topic is Zak saying well get P-40 sone, so i hope in first addon hopefully with IAR 80/81 both airplanes so cool to fly

Edited September 1, 2013 by Yaklover

[TheBlackPenguin]

Going over BoB would not necessarily be a financial disaster, especially as we'd be guaranteed every aircraft to be flyable, something previous predecessors did not always live up to, plus more dynamic weather systems. They already have a channel map in ROF, it would 'just' need expanding, this would also benefit ROF . Having said that it can certainly wait awhile longer .

 

What are the main hold ups? Challenges? I think I mentioned this before, and as an example when we look at B-17's and Lanc's, especially later in the war we're not just dealing with the Norden bombsight, but an entire set of new technologies, one prime example being H2S and H2X:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2X_radar

 

North Africa would certainly open up the technologies, albeit on a smaller scale, for carrier and over water operations. I do wonder, is there a map size limitation within the game engine? For example, would it be possible to model the Britain from Northern England, Wales (need a place for those a/c lost in fog to crash) all the way to Berlin and include France? When I mention North Africa I am also thinking up as far as perhaps Rome, as far west as Gibraltar. Is this too ambitious?

 

Again, I'd rather see the East fleshed out more before, maybe next up Kuban, although I'd imagine things can change over the coming months.

[Bearcat]

It would have made historical and aesthetic sense to start this series with Barbarossa but I suspect financial sense put the mockers on that. Emils vs Polikarpovs and all that jazz. RoF was done the same way, we were dropped straight into mid/end and even now we still don't have all the early/mid planes.

 

Money always becomes the obstacle, but always because the simming public have little aesthetic discretion. Or so devs, in general, believe. Would a Barbarossa sim have been successful?

 

I still think they will have a little leeway to do something like that .. if the support is there for the product.. I would not mind seeing a few more ETO maps and planes.. and I agree Barbarossa would be a great place.. even the BoB would not be a bad idea.. I would have no problem with having to wait 2-5 years to get to the late war.. but even 43 would bring some of what I would like to see. I think the initial sup[port is key and it has already been said several times .. that the pre orders are not funding BoS .. they are funding future development... BoS is fully funded. So from where I sit.. if I want to see my Ponies.. and some possible Med action or PTO action ... or carriers.. then for me the Premium pre order is well worth the price. If the sim sells retail for $50 U.S. in the spring.. and planes are $20 apiece .. then I have already bought two aircraft... if they are more then I got a bargain... If they are less then I still got to fly the sim 3-6 months before it is released to the public and could possibly contribute in some small way to it's development.. and again.. I think I got the better deal.

[Vig]

We're not even past Alpha of a portrayal of one battle on the Eastern Front, and already people want to know, when they're gonna get their precious American airplanes and move on to a theatre, they're more familiar with?

 

Apart from the more common Lend-Lease planes like P-39, Hurricane and P-40, and perhaps some Finnish imports, American/British aircraft have no place in this sim for the first decade to come IMHO.

I like the aircraft of every country and I will buy and play whatever is released.  I have preordered BOS.  As a former US Marine I do have a strong interest in the Pacific theater; that doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to the Stalingrad front.  As far as "for the first decade," hyperbole or not, I notice that you are 31 years old.  I'm 61, myself.

[VeryOldMan]

I recall that there was a problem with US manufacturers insisting on licensing fees for use of representations of their WWII aircraft back in IL-2 1946.  Does that mean no P-39?  Also, is there any chance that we will eventually progress to an "IL2 BOS in the Pacific" with this project, or is that completely off the table?

 

The problem  was with the name of the manufactures, like republic, Lokheed etc.  

Edited September 2, 2013 by VeryOldMan

[Finkeren]

The problem  was with the name of the manufactures, like republic, Lokheed etc.  

Is that true?

 

That's so hilariously stupid, that I can hardly wrap my head around it.

[VeryOldMan]

Is that true?

 

That's so hilariously stupid, that I can hardly wrap my head around it.

Lets not start with a legal discussion ,sicen  we were warned not to. LEave each country to their own rules

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Is that true?

 

That's so hilariously stupid, that I can hardly wrap my head around it.

 

It's true

[Finkeren]

Lets not start with a legal discussion ,sicen  we were warned not to. LEave each country to their own rules

Agreed, it was just an off-the-cuff reaction.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Finkeren

[Frequent_Flyer]

When I said "a decade", it was hyperbole, Of course it doesn't have to be that long.

 

However, I completely disagree, that you absolutely have to expand beyond the Eastern Front to "keep western players interested". I'm a "western" player, in the sense that I live en the "old west bloc" part of Europe, and my interest is overwhelmingly on the Eastern Front. Red Orchestra did fine with the Great Patriotic War for nearly 10 years before moving on to the Pacific, why would BoS be any different, given that both sims attract many of the same dedicated players?

 

In fact, I find it a bit annoying, that people more or less take for granted, that you can't get an American audience interested in a video game, if they can't play as Americans or at least use American weaponry. Who honestly thinks Americans are so shallow?

 

The glamour surrounding American aircraft of WW2 is well known (some of it well deserved, some of it not) But every single one of the iconic American crates has been done to death a million times, while IL2 is the ONLY sim that has ever really covered the huge topic of the air war in the East. I think we can live without another US-centered flight sim for a few years, while we complete what's started with BoS.

 

I would love to see this sim move to for instance the MTO, but not until the Eastern Front is covered at least as well as it was with the release of IL-2FB back in the day.

For the most part I believe the flight sim folks are interested in historical accuracy. No one can dispute the historical inaccuracies IL-2 levied upon the US aircraft.( Example: the 6 X  .50 in the P-40 were infinitely more powerful and accurate than the same configuration on any other US aircraft.You have to spend more time adjusting the trim in the P-51 than any other aircraft.The P-38, one of  most stable gun platform in WW II ,yet when you pulled the trigger aiming was about as accurate as a 10 year old girl trying to aim a fire hose at full tilt,etc.  ) For that matter any aircraft not armed with a cannon was at a disadvantage in the way the damage model was " calculated " . Speaking for myself ( pre-ordered premium) I will support this endeavor in the hopes that it flys swiftly to the West. Although we have not seen the damage modeling yet, I would assume it to be of relative quality, and so far things look very good.

[ImPeRaToR]

When I said "a decade", it was hyperbole, Of course it doesn't have to be that long.

 

However, I completely disagree, that you absolutely have to expand beyond the Eastern Front to "keep western players interested". I'm a "western" player, in the sense that I live en the "old west bloc" part of Europe, and my interest is overwhelmingly on the Eastern Front. Red Orchestra did fine with the Great Patriotic War for nearly 10 years before moving on to the Pacific, why would BoS be any different, given that both sims attract many of the same dedicated players?

 

In fact, I find it a bit annoying, that people more or less take for granted, that you can't get an American audience interested in a video game, if they can't play as Americans or at least use American weaponry. Who honestly thinks Americans are so shallow?

 

The glamour surrounding American aircraft of WW2 is well known (some of it well deserved, some of it not) But every single one of the iconic American crates has been done to death a million times, while IL2 is the ONLY sim that has ever really covered the huge topic of the air war in the East. I think we can live without another US-centered flight sim for a few years, while we complete what's started with BoS.

 

I would love to see this sim move to for instance the MTO, but not until the Eastern Front is covered at least as well as it was with the release of IL-2FB back in the day.

Spot on

[gavagai]

The glamour surrounding American aircraft of WW2 is well known (some of it well deserved, some of it not) But every single one of the iconic American crates has been done to death a million times, while IL2 is the ONLY sim that has ever really covered the huge topic of the air war in the East. I think we can live without another US-centered flight sim for a few years, while we complete what's started with BoS.

 

Finkeren, what (successful) ETO WW2 flight sim have we had since MSCFS3?  That was more than 10 years ago.

 

Personally, I think the USSR did more to defeat Germany than the USA, but I still have a hankering for something different than Il-2 redux.  Il-2 (what do we call the old one?) did not have a decent ETO or MTO map until the players made them, and by then the sim was nearly obsolete.  Clod was little better than an aborted attempt at a change of pace.

 

If you put a gun to my head I would probably choose the Eastern front over the PTO, but I will continue to hope for the MTO because of the varied terrain and balanced aircraft matchups.

[Finkeren]

Finkeren, what (successful) ETO WW2 flight sim have we had since MSCFS3? That was more than 10 years ago.

 

Personally, I think the USSR did more to defeat Germany than the USA, but I still have a hankering for something different than Il-2 redux. Il-2 (what do we call the old one?) did not have a decent ETO or MTO map until the players made them, and by then the sim was nearly obsolete. Clod was little better than an aborted attempt at a change of pace.

 

If you put a gun to my head I would probably choose the Eastern front over the PTO, but I will continue to hope for the MTO because of the varied terrain and balanced aircraft matchups.

I don't really disagree with you Gav. I'm a big "fan" (if you can call it that) of the ETO, and I really think it sorta "deserves" a great up-to-date sim.

 

Ofc the MTO is even more underserved, and it would definately be my first choice, once thus sim moves beyond the Great Patriotic War. I agree with the qualities of that theatre which you pointed out.

 

However, I very much believe in "finish what you started", and I would hate to see IL-2BoS move on before we have covered all the important Eastern campaigns 1941-45.

[VeryOldMan]

I don't really disagree with you Gav. I'm a big "fan" (if you can call it that) of the ETO, and I really think it sorta "deserves" a great up-to-date sim.

 

Ofc the MTO is even more underserved, and it would definately be my first choice, once thus sim moves beyond the Great Patriotic War. I agree with the qualities of that theatre which you pointed out.

 

However, I very much believe in "finish what you started", and I would hate to see IL-2BoS move on before we have covered all the important Eastern campaigns 1941-45.

 

You could see   other way udner the same  "finish what you started"  thinking.   You could FINISH 1942  before moving to  1943

[Finkeren]

You could see other way udner the same "finish what you started" thinking. You could FINISH 1942 before moving to 1943

Bet those fellas who are aching for their P-51s won't like that

[VeryOldMan]

Invariably , SOMEONE will have to wait

[Frequent_Flyer]

I don't really disagree with you Gav. I'm a big "fan" (if you can call it that) of the ETO, and I really think it sorta "deserves" a great up-to-date sim.

 

Ofc the MTO is even more underserved, and it would definately be my first choice, once thus sim moves beyond the Great Patriotic War. I agree with the qualities of that theatre which you pointed out.

 

However, I very much believe in "finish what you started", and I would hate to see IL-2BoS move on before we have covered all the important Eastern campaigns 1941-45.

One of the problems with the Eastern Front 41-45, its the same monotonous mission. Escort your bombers/ground attack aircraft to the end of the runway at low altitude turnaround repeat if necessary.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

bad missiondesign............

[VeryOldMan]

One of the problems with the Eastern Front 41-45, its the same monotonous mission. Escort your bombers/ground attack aircraft to the end of the runway at low altitude turnaround repeat if necessary.

So we can  add Aliens and Tie fighters in middle for increased replayability ? 

Edited September 2, 2013 by VeryOldMan