Requiem Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) BTW what is the lowest preset that has the furthest possible viewing distance? I think that's quite important for multiplayer. Balanced is the way to go (imo) because it has the lowest SSAO and visibility of 1.0. I can actually run BoS on ultra, but the post processing added doesn't do the graphics any favours on my PC. I would prefer to run low because I don't like how the post processing makes BoS look on my PC, but the visibility for low is only 0.5 so therefore I don't use it. If the devs changed the visibility to 1.0 in the low preset I would definitely be running low over ultra simply to avoid the post processing effects. Post processing effects and how they are seen by a user are very much a personal preference because it can depend on your monitor and graphic card settings, plus they cost a big chunk of FPS. Not everyone has the same PC, the same monitor, and the same tastes in visuals, so having them enforced in this way only annoys people. However, there's been plenty of that lately so if anything will change it will probably be to add post processing to low Edited October 30, 2014 by SYN_Requiem
Bearcat Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Here's an answer: we don't plan to change anything in the system of presets yet. We shall see...
John_Banks Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 They could leave the presets, but give us also a custom option. or at least give us an extra option for supersampling beside AA and VSync. SS is a real fps killer and without it, i could run the game at Ultra without a new videocard. 1
LLv34_Flanker Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 S! From my understanding the viewdistance affected ground details, not dots.
Matt Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) It's gone It worked for half a year. I doubt they got contacted by customers (those "It experts" as they called them, back when they announced these presets, which supposedly were annoying them all the time) and had to bother with countless questions, yet as soon as someone points out that it works on these forums, they get rid of the option immediately. So much for their original reasoning of these presets. Without bloom, HDR and SSAO it looked and ran just great. Now i'm back to "balanced". Runs worse and looks crap in comparison, especially with clouds around. Just another adjustment that annoys people and makes them enjoy BoS less and serves no other purpose. I thought we had enough of those this month. From my understanding the viewdistance affected ground details, not dots. Can't test it in BoS anymore, but in RoF, the view distance affects basically all non AI ground objects, except for trees. Edited October 30, 2014 by Matt 1
LLv34_Flanker Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 S! I think Requiem made a comparison with screenshots and all. There the drawing distance of ground was affected on one setting, but even on Low it was the same as on Ultra. Options in GUI with proper explanations should not flood their customer care. And if that drool dribbling idiot does not have the attention span to READ what a setting does before altering, tough luck. Don't click Yes, Yes, Yes and then wonder WTF happened. Reading is always useful
Tektolnes Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 It worked for half a year. I doubt they got contacted by customers (those "It experts" as they called them, back when they announced these presets, which supposedly were annoying them all the time) and had to bother with countless questions, yet as soon as someone points out that it works on these forums, they get rid of the option immediately. So much for their original reasoning of these presets The original reasoning given was always a load of nonsense. Users have no problems understanding tick boxes in a GUI. This mostly seems to be about Loft being a bit of a primadonna and deciding how everybody should have to view their game while playing it. We paid good money for this game and it should be our decision to view the game how we want to which is what every PC game out there allows. Loft is really pissing into the wind with this one and needs to sort it out.
Brano Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 There are so many weird decisions done.If I was there as decision maker,I would not change a bit from general UI and all options available in RoF.And there are lots of good features that worked for everyone.Career,real medals,awards,ranks,options to adjust graphics according your PC,inflight map and icons for giving orders,separate responses curves for each given plane!,unlocks or fieldmods to be bought for really cheap price = so if someone wanted to have useless LePrieur rockets in his Nieuport rendering it to flying brick,suit yourself. Why it was all discarded and scrapped boggles my mind.Same as revival of IL2 trademark.They better sticked with Rise of Flight:Red Star vs Black Cross. 1
LLv34_Flanker Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 S! Brano, well put. Why repair something if it is not broken! Sure the economical model will be different in BoS than in RoF. I just hope that they do not want to go the "WT way" in long term with all these unlocks etc. I think the community gave quite a solid response to the "brilliance" of this idea, and other decisions too.
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 We shall see...Color me skeptical, but I'm not sure there will be much of an audience when yet rolls around. It's an enigma to me: Such a brilliant game being held back by these two major design choices.
Matt Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 It's just that they now spent time and money twice to make custom settings impossible. First by restricting it to presets only and now again by closing this backdoor. If this is their only reaction to countless requests (most of them very reasonable) for custom graphic settings, well thanks alot. I'll return this favor by simply not buying anything else until they add custom settings to BoS. Simple as that. I wouldn't react this way for features like unlocks etc. (which i personally don't like either, but it was an announced feature and would surely require a good bit of extra work to change), but for a basic feature like graphic settings, this is just absolutely rediculous. 5
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 It's just that they now spent time and money twice to make custom settings impossible. First by restricting it to presets only and now again by closing this backdoor. If this is their only reaction to countless requests (most of them very reasonable) for custom graphic settings, well thanks alot. I'll return this favor by simply not buying anything else until they add custom settings to BoS. Simple as that. I wouldn't react this way for features like unlocks etc. (which i personally don't like either, but it was an announced feature and would surely require a good bit of extra work to change), but for a basic feature like graphic settings, this is just absolutely rediculous. Plus One.
Tektolnes Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 +1 from me too. Already said that I wasn't buying anything else until this issue was resolved. Which saddens me as I genuinely do like the game and want to continue playing it but some poorly thought out design choices combined with this stubbornness to not give us standard options is really making it a struggle at the moment.
VBF-12_Stick-95 Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 This is another example of not listening to 95% of your customers. It's a shame really.
SYN_Jedders Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Its 95% of the people that felt annoyed enough to vote...not 95% of all their customers. I don't like the presets either but lets not mislead people.
Brano Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 To vote should be compulsory for every registered game owner.Like mandatory elections we had here in former Czechoslovakia during commie times
AndyHill Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Post processing effects and how they are seen by a user are very much a personal preference because it can depend on your monitor and graphic card settings, plus they cost a big chunk of FPS. Not everyone has the same PC, the same monitor, and the same tastes in visuals, so having them enforced in this way only annoys people. However, there's been plenty of that lately so if anything will change it will probably be to add post processing to low Hm maybe it's time for some prominent content creators to go on strike posting only black videos with only the text "This would be an awesome Il-2 BoS video if they let me adjust the settings" on it until the devs finally see reason.
BladeMeister Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Hmmmm, 95% want custom graphics options. Can someone that is really a good translator make sure to translate this poll to Russian so that there is nothing lost in translation. We don't want Loft to have any misunderstanding on this one. S!Blade<><
DD_bongodriver Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 Its 95% of the people that felt annoyed enough to vote...not 95% of all their customers. I don't like the presets either but lets not mislead people. The participants are a cross section of the whole customer base and as such a fair representation, nothing misleading about it at all.
SYN_Jedders Posted October 30, 2014 Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) If you ask any sane person the question; Would you prefer: a/ No choice? b/ More choice? 95% will ask for more choice. The poll in this thread is not mandatory, therefore those people who care enough to vote are not a cross section of the "whole". Obviously you will disagree with me as you always do Edited October 30, 2014 by SYN_Jedders
DD_bongodriver Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 So only 95% of the participants are sane, everyone else is nuts?
BladeMeister Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 If you ask any sane person the question; Would you prefer: a/ No choice? b/ More choice? 95% will ask for more choice. The poll in this thread is not mandatory, therefore those people who care enough to vote are not a cross section of the "whole". Obviously you will disagree with me as you always do What is wrong with you people around here? Everyone is trying to be so Politically Correct around here and in the world in general. This is BS , I have refused to be Politically Correct in the World anymore and I refuse to do it here either. The Truth is the Truth and it cannot be bent, shaped, adjusted, made to feel more comfortable or be sensitized to suit the non gender specific people in this Forum or the World in general, the Truth is the Truth! What you just said here is so much crap. 95% of the people that have bothered to come on this Forum(of all those that don't come here anymore, and everyone knows why) and read this thread(the only reason I found it was because of the SimHq thread), those people have voted 95% in favor of having Custom Graphics settings. If you want everyone to have a chance to vote, then do something about it. Contact Jason, ask him to have an e-mail sent out to the whole Customer base and ask them politely to come on this Forum and vote in this matter so everyone has a chance, but don't come on here and post the BS you just did above. That is ridicules and so insulting to me and I have to assume anyone else that comes on these Forums and has half a mind to understand a simple issue within this game. The poll is plainly stated and gives the obvious 2 options that exist in this situation, leave BOS alone or add a Custom options Button to the current presets. It is simple, very simple. If you can't understand that and just vote the way you want without making the ignorant statement you did above, then I feel sorry for you. You can read any amount of attitude into this as you would like because it is so sad that so many people have backed BOS with up to 95$ and then are treated as children. And to the first person that says, "Well , you are acting like a child." I say "NO" I am acting like a pissed off Adult that feels the Developer of this product has robbed me, taken a very well received game, up until 3 weeks ago, and said that I am to Stupid to play the way I want to with what I payed for or adjust my own graphics, because I need to be concentrating on learning to fly their game. That is BS! I might suck at Sim flying(I am pretty mediocre actually), but just give me the game with all the options open to me and let me enjoy it the way I want to. If I come online and make an ass out of myself(I never have before), then Ban me, case solved. This poll isn't going to make a difference, we've done polls , they haven't made a difference yet. I am not sure if it is Jason or not, but the rest of the team or at least Loft and Zak think they know better than their own Customers, even with polls that show a definitive consensus on several issues that should have never changed in the first place. This is complete BS and they are to Proud or Ashamed to just admit what they have done is against the majority of their Customers will and they still refuse to change it. I wasn't around for the Banana Forums, but I can only imagine this is how it was. What a joke, 1C/777 you are incredible, take a product with some promise and do this to it, incredible. Of course you will delete this, but what is new. You don't want anyone thinking someone isn't happy with BOS. Well look around, there are plenty who aren't.
Bearcat Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I'm skeptical about custom graphics because for an example look at War Thunder... people manipulate the graphics so they can see through the clouds, etc, etc. That to me is nonsense in a real sim. It is just as ridiculous as having all kinds of restrictions on skins because someone might put pink neon default skins on all the bandits... BS. if I have said it once I have said it a thousand times.. the IL2 model is the benchmark way to go for any new sim. It is textbook on how to get it right. A crappy pilot who sees a better pilot coming will just take a little longer to get shot down but down he will go 90% of the time. OPTIONS give wings and legs to a sim. The lack thereof is one of the key ingredients in the the recipe for failure. Guys.. let's ratchet this down a few levels pls. I'd say accurate cross section or not.. out of the 236 polled this far 226 said they would prefer a choice. A no brainer. I am leaving this open so that anyone who wants to.. just so they can get their voices heard can do so.. but if this thing goes south .. if I have people getting all postal or latching on to the back and forth nonsense that some folks in this thread like to do.. their posts will be deleted and/or the thread will be locked. Count on it. 2
DD_bongodriver Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 That to me is nonsense in a real sim. It is just as ridiculous as having all kinds of restrictions on skins because someone might put pink neon default skins on all the bandits... BS. if I have said it once I have said it a thousand times.. the IL2 model is the benchmark way to go for any new sim. It is textbook on how to get it right. A crappy pilot who sees a better pilot coming will just take a little longer to get shot down but down he will go 90% of the time. OPTIONS give wings and legs to a sim. The lack thereof is one of the key ingredients in the the recipe for failure. Amen to that, strikes me kind of odd that more control is being taken away from a group of people that in theory should be control freaks i.e. a PC flight sim enthusiast.
LLv34_Flanker Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 S! Doing some checking. Why do we get shitty image quality because of SSAO? Read here, straight from a known game developer's fact sheet: "Screen space ambient occlusion(SSAO) works by examining an onscreen pixel, and then comparing its location in a depth buffer to the pixels around it. Pixels which are close together, but not coplanar (on the same face), are shaded to simulate soft shadows. To maintain playable framerates, it is not possible to sample every pixel every frame, so random sampling is used, which will inevitably create noise/grain which may be more noticeable with movement. To counter this, the SSAO pass is often blurred to remove such grain." So there it is. The smeary vision, grain and all that poop is because of the SSAO. There was more about it's downsides: "Rather local and in many cases view-dependent, as it is dependent on adjacent texel depths which may be generated by any geometry whatsoever. Hard to correctly smooth/blur out the noise without interfering with depth discontinuities, such as object edges (the occlusion should not "bleed" onto objects)."
SYN_Jedders Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 What is wrong with you people around here? Everyone is trying to be so Politically Correct around here and in the world in general. This is BS , I have refused to be Politically Correct in the World anymore and I refuse to do it here either. The Truth is the Truth and it cannot be bent, shaped, adjusted, made to feel more comfortable or be sensitized to suit the non gender specific people in this Forum or the World in general, the Truth is the Truth! What you just said here is so much crap. 95% of the people that have bothered to come on this Forum(of all those that don't come here anymore, and everyone knows why) and read this thread(the only reason I found it was because of the SimHq thread), those people have voted 95% in favor of having Custom Graphics settings. If you want everyone to have a chance to vote, then do something about it. Contact Jason, ask him to have an e-mail sent out to the whole Customer base and ask them politely to come on this Forum and vote in this matter so everyone has a chance, but don't come on here and post the BS you just did above. That is ridicules and so insulting to me and I have to assume anyone else that comes on these Forums and has half a mind to understand a simple issue within this game. The poll is plainly stated and gives the obvious 2 options that exist in this situation, leave BOS alone or add a Custom options Button to the current presets. It is simple, very simple. If you can't understand that and just vote the way you want without making the ignorant statement you did above, then I feel sorry for you. You can read any amount of attitude into this as you would like because it is so sad that so many people have backed BOS with up to 95$ and then are treated as children. And to the first person that says, "Well , you are acting like a child." I say "NO" I am acting like a pissed off Adult that feels the Developer of this product has robbed me, taken a very well received game, up until 3 weeks ago, and said that I am to Stupid to play the way I want to with what I payed for or adjust my own graphics, because I need to be concentrating on learning to fly their game. That is BS! I might suck at Sim flying(I am pretty mediocre actually), but just give me the game with all the options open to me and let me enjoy it the way I want to. If I come online and make an ass out of myself(I never have before), then Ban me, case solved. This poll isn't going to make a difference, we've done polls , they haven't made a difference yet. I am not sure if it is Jason or not, but the rest of the team or at least Loft and Zak think they know better than their own Customers, even with polls that show a definitive consensus on several issues that should have never changed in the first place. This is complete BS and they are to Proud or Ashamed to just admit what they have done is against the majority of their Customers will and they still refuse to change it. I wasn't around for the Banana Forums, but I can only imagine this is how it was. What a joke, 1C/777 you are incredible, take a product with some promise and do this to it, incredible. Of course you will delete this, but what is new. You don't want anyone thinking someone isn't happy with BOS. Well look around, there are plenty who aren't. Nice wall of text and rant at me. If you had taken the time to read what had been said by me in this thread you would realise that I had said I didn't like presets either. Anyway, rant at will
Lusekofte Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 I always hated the fact that people tuned down their graphics in cod in order to spot ac better, that weakness in cod made me stick to bombers. I hate it when I needed to lower the quality in order to survive. In this game I can fly fighters and, well not doing excellent, but having fun. But I feel this should be up to the user, I put freedom of choice pretty much on top , above many things in life in tact
DD_bongodriver Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 always hated the fact that people tuned down their graphics in cod in order to spot ac better, that weakness in cod made me stick to bombers Why is that a weakness? if it's something everyone can do it's not any kind of exploit, it's as daft as saying people getting better frame rates because of decent hardware are cheating.
Matt Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Only thing i could think off, would be lowering the terrain texture and thus making the planes stand out from the terrain a bit more. That effect happens when you switch presets to low and it was not possible to lower it any further with custom settings. There is no other settings avaliable with custom settings which would give you an advantage of this kind. You can't control things like sun glare, spotting distance etc. or whatever with any of the custom settings. Even if there would be such an option, no reason to not have custom graphics in single player.
unreasonable Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Multiplayer Paranoia. Same reason as aversion to mods. The original explanation for the change explicitly said this was a main reason why everyone gets the shaft on custom graphics. But of course, forumites queued up to say no, they did not really mean it, etc. I wish I had a few extra million bucks to fund a huge flight sim with no MP at all.
Tektolnes Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 It's not like the custom graphic settings in BOS would even make much of a difference to competitive multiplayer anyway. Other things completely outside of Dev control make way more difference. I've yet to hear a convincing argument from the devs why custom graphic settings are deemed something us lot just can't be let loose with.
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 It's not like the custom graphic settings in BOS would even make much of a difference to competitive multiplayer anyway. Other things completely outside of Dev control make way more difference. I've yet to hear a convincing argument from the devs why custom graphic settings are deemed something us lot just can't be let loose with. It's hard to even think up any excuse.
SYN_Bandy Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 It seems to me that any post on this forum ends up becoming an arguement for arguement's sake, and unendurable as a sane person (though no one has ever accused me of being one before). Get a life people!
BlackBadger Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 247 total, 237 for custom graphics, 10 against That is a pretty conclusive result from an indicative sample IMHO. Side question: Is modding supported, not allowed, frowned upon - what is the devs stance on this? Badger
Brano Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Studying that "criminized" cfg file I came to conclusion,that none of the presets are for any good. Explanation: LOW - draw distance is halved,lower textures,no bumpmapping,low forests,clouds AND low postprocessing Result = here and there overall + for less postprocessing and big minus for the rest And it goes this way up to..... ULTRA Which has maxed out everything AND maxed out postprocessing Result = ugly smeary vision,blurred airplanes when viewing against clouds (they look like from Aces over Europe times),weird palette in sky during sunset/sundown,when wounded etc... Make your own conclusions.....
BladeMeister Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Nice wall of text and rant at me. If you had taken the time to read what had been said by me in this thread you would realise that I had said I didn't like presets either. Anyway, rant at will Never said you did like presets. Your post was nitpicking at details that have little bearing on the OP poll. Any Simmer that had owned at least one Flight Sim would want a Custom Graphics Setting Option(OK, 99%). You posted for reaction, you got mine. Yep it was a rant, not directed at you completely, just your share. The feelings of frustration are broad right now (newbs,hardcore,devs), but this could pretty much go away with a few simple positive and constructive decisions. For the life of me, I cannot understand how 1c/777 could let BOS get to this point. Bandy, I have a life. I would just like to receive the game I EA purchased, open to use in its entire form,(which it was until 3 weeks ago) not restricted to protect me from myself. I am pretty sure I am not alone on this, but maybe we should start another pole to find out if BOS customers would like BOS better if it was before 3 weeks ago? Oh wait, if we put Jasons' pole together with this one you have those results already. 76% & 95% of who wanted to vote, would like Bos opened up to Customer adjustment as it was before the lockdown installed 3 weeks ago. It's just a matter of if 1C/777 wants to keep BOS the way they think is best or if they want to take into consideration the way a majority of their Customers actually would like to use BOS. It has always been this simple, I just wish they would make a final decision as to which way they are going so I can decide whether to keep or sell BOS. S!Blade<><
Lusekofte Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Why is that a weakness? if it's something everyone can do it's not any kind of exploit, it's as daft as saying people getting better frame rates because of decent hardware are cheating. Again my choice of words, let me put it in a other way. And I am not trying bringing cod into this , just for compare . . The rendering of ground targets quite a immersion killer. You can see all ground targets as black dots 10 minutes ahead of your bomb run , then it disappear and then reappear just below you. For spotting other planes people sacrifice quality in favor to spot them sooner. The LOD is being looked at by TF and improved by latest patches. But what I mean, is in BOS this is not so, it seems to me the targets are a part of map objects, they render together with the map texture. This is in my point of view better and always will. So the necessity of changing graphics here is not obvious, but I am in favor for it, because I believe people should be able to choose for themselves
LLv34_Flanker Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 S! Conveniently they deleted my posts in General discussion about the current build and graphical presets. Fine. Let them do that. I still want them, hacked or by offical channels. 2
Damtired Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 My video card only likes the low preset. With the crap draw distance, i cant play enjoyably.
Brano Posted October 31, 2014 Posted October 31, 2014 Thats why there is nothing like graphical presets in any other game I own.Be it simulator,RPG,star ship pewpew or even graphically unattractive grand strategies.
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