New Poll: Which LW plane do you want in BoS?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Lots of time in the IL2 for me I predict.   Also my old time BlitzPig wing man Voidcracker and I will no doubt see many sorties in the LaGG-3 as well.

 

Though if the Mig-3 makes it in, it will be hard to resist the temptation of that gorgeous race horse.l 

[Ribbs]

I do think it would be smart financialy to include either the P-40 or P39. It would stir alot of intrest in the western market.

 

I voted for the P-40 :D 

 

But would be happy with the P-39 also!

 

S!

[Avimimusold]

You're just trying to annoy me!

 

My top three picks:

- Mig-3

- FW-189

- Il-4

[MiloMorai]

Can someone tell me what unit the Bf109E-7 was with at Stalingrad, as I can find no reference to it being there.

[Uda]

Schlachtgeschwader 1 used E-7s together with Hs123 and Hs129 until early 1943 in example. I mean the former Sch.G.1 formed on LG2 basis

[Crump]

Milo posted a good list with the OOB for the tactical air campaign at Stalingrad.  Those aircraft present in the VVS and Luftwaffe OOB should be in the game at a minimum.  The other coalition forces can be added later.

 

JG51 arrived at Stalingrad with FW-190A3 on the first day of the offensive.  I don't know why the thread lists it as coming later.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Crump

[MiloMorai]

Schlachtgeschwader 1 used E-7s together with Hs123 and Hs129 until early 1943 in example. I mean the former Sch.G.1 formed on LG2 basis

 

Thanks, forgot about the ground attack role.   I see I./Sch.G.1used the E-7 til Feb/Mar 1943.

[DD_fruitbat]

 

JG51 arrived at Stalingrad with FW-190A3 on the first day of the offensive.  I don't know why the thread lists it as coming later.

 

did they now.

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UPNzp8-i63EC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=jg51+in+russia+stalingrad&source=bl&ots=Zyqk6uj05Y&sig=UtU3et4gtI07xtFEgotRXWt72-A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mubRUP6bEMrBtAaNrYCoCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=jg51%20in%20russia%20stalingrad&f=false

 

Hard to be in 2 places at once you know......

 

stick to plane stuff, cause your history sucks....

Edited December 19, 2012 by fruitbat

[MiloMorai]

JG51 arrived at Stalingrad with FW-190A3 on the first day of the offensive.  I don't know why the thread lists it as coming later.

 

Stab./JG51

11.42 - 10.1.43 Witebsk   Bf 109F/Fw 190A

10.1.43 - 3.2.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

 

I./JG51

18.10.42 - 6.1.43 Wjasma-S????d   Fw 190A

6.1.43 - 27.1.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

27.1.43 - 3.43 Orel-West   Fw 190A

 

II./JG51 was based no where near Stalingrad and was equipped with Bf109Gs.

25.11.42 - 29.11.42 Bizerta   Bf 109G

29.11.42 - 2.12.42 El Aouina   Bf 109G

2.12.42 - 17.12.42 Tunis    

17.12.42 - 4.1.43 El Aouina   Bf 109G

4.1.43 - 11.2.43 Gabes   Bf 109G

11.2.43 - 2.43 Trapani   Bf 109G

2.43 - 8.4.43 La Smala des Souassis   Bf 109G

 

III./JG51

12.11.42 - 17.12.42 Jesau   Bf 109F, Fw 190A

17.12.42 - 27.1.43 Dugino   Fw 190A

27.1.42 - 2.43 Orel   Fw 190A

Edited December 19, 2012 by MiloMorai

[oded]

yak 15 

BI -6

he162

ta183

me 262

[DD_fruitbat]

Stab./JG51

11.42 - 10.1.43 Witebsk   Bf 109F/Fw 190A

10.1.43 - 3.2.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

 

I./JG51

18.10.42 - 6.1.43 Wjasma-S????d   Fw 190A

6.1.43 - 27.1.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

27.1.43 - 3.43 Orel-West   Fw 190A

 

II./JG51 was based no where near Stalingrad and was equipped with Bf109Gs.

25.11.42 - 29.11.42 Bizerta   Bf 109G

29.11.42 - 2.12.42 El Aouina   Bf 109G

2.12.42 - 17.12.42 Tunis    

17.12.42 - 4.1.43 El Aouina   Bf 109G

4.1.43 - 11.2.43 Gabes   Bf 109G

11.2.43 - 2.43 Trapani   Bf 109G

2.43 - 8.4.43 La Smala des Souassis   Bf 109G

 

III./JG51

12.11.42 - 17.12.42 Jesau   Bf 109F, Fw 190A

17.12.42 - 27.1.43 Dugino   Fw 190A

27.1.42 - 2.43 Orel   Fw 190A

 

Great list, can i ask what books you used as a source, since christmas is coming up, and its a great excuse to buy new books for me!

Edited December 19, 2012 by fruitbat

[DD_bongodriver]

Su-26.....

[MiloMorai]

Great list, can i ask what books you used as a source, since christmas is coming up, and its a great excuse to buy new books for me!

 

No book but online, http://www.ww2.dk/

[DD_fruitbat]

No book but online, http://www.ww2.dk/

 

Rgr, great link, seen it before and bookmarked, but was hoping your stumbled across something like the JG26 war diaries for JG51. Would buy that in a heartbeat for both JG51 and JG54!

Edited December 19, 2012 by fruitbat

[Caudron431]

I16

I153

LaGG3

Yak1/7

MiG3

Il2

Su2

Pe2

P40

 

IAR81

Ju52/88/87

He111

Mc200/202

Bf109 E/F/G

 

No (outdated and outclassed) early designs = boring sim

Edited December 19, 2012 by RegRag1977

[Crump]

That is correct.  The FW-190's were operational but were deployed further north at the Demyansk Mushroom.  I mis-read the sentence in the book.  They arrived on the first day of the Stalingrad Offensive.  That does not mean they arrived at Stalingrad, which I took it to mean.

 

Anyway, the FW-190 was on the Eastern Front in the time period the game is set in.

 

The poll is still incorrect as the FW-190A did not come later in the timeline.  It was present during the battle of Stalingrad.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Crump

[wiseblood]

One thing from reading Loft's comments on the russian forum - as with ROF there will be no flyable/nonflyable split, the plane is either in or out.  The AI uses the hifi player physics model to fly the plane and won't work otherwise.

[FlatSpinMan]

Hang on Crump, so by "present during Stalingrad" do you mean it was on the Eastern Front during Stalingrad? I found the last bit of your post confusing.

[DD_fruitbat]

Yes thats what he means i believe.

Being no where near seems not to matter, so by the same logic i'd like a spitfire mk IX as they were also present in service during Stalingrad, but not actually there itself.

Edited December 20, 2012 by fruitbat

[MiloMorai]

So what bases did these Fw190s fly from Crump?

 

Stab./JG51

11.42 - 10.1.43 Witebsk   Bf 109F/Fw 190A

10.1.43 - 3.2.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

 

I./JG51

18.10.42 - 6.1.43 Wjasma-S????d   Fw 190A

6.1.43 - 27.1.43 Isotscha/Iwan-See   Fw 190A

27.1.43 - 3.43 Orel-West   Fw 190A

 

III./JG51

12.11.42 - 17.12.42 Jesau   Bf 109F, Fw 190A

17.12.42 - 27.1.43 Dugino   Fw 190A

27.1.42 - 2.43 Orel   Fw 190A

 

Please note that the Battle of Stalingrad scenario begins with Operation Uranus, 19 November 1942.

[Dutch]

Wow. Market research. Already. Dontcha just love it?

 

I'll let you know after my pre-ordered Felixstowe and Channel map have been added to my PC flight experiences.

 

You know, it's a strange thing. I love buying add-ons for flight sims. Buying things for flight sims and anticipating what they'll be like is mostly as much fun as flying them. God knows how much money I've spent on FSX and Rise of Flight. But somehow I'm not ready yet to commit myself to spending any money on this newest incarnation of my most favourite flight sim of all time. Even if its  name is the same. It depends what the game is like, how much I'd spend on an aircraft. If the game is pants, I wouldn't give you tuppence for 'em. If it's fantastic, I'd probably give you more.

 

Strange but true.

 

Edit: Oh crap. I only read the initial post. Then I see my own post and bloody 'Chump' is here. Great. Get in there quick mate. The quicker you're in, the quicker you'll be out. Depressed pointed thing.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Dutch

[Faustnik]

Yes thats what he means i believe.

Being no where near seems not to matter, so by the same logic i'd like a spitfire mk IX as they were also present in service during Stalingrad, but not actually there itself.

 

Well, it is close. Orel was 550 km from Stalingrad. The Fw 190 fights and shlackt units where in the area of chaos 1943 winter from Stalingrad to Kharkov.

[Dutch]

Well, it is close. Orel was 550 km from Stalingrad. The Fw 190 fights and shlackt units where in the area of chaos 1943 winter from Stalingrad to Kharkov.

 

This is supposed to be a poll about how much people would pay for an aircraft. How did it become an analysis of aircraft present 550km from Stalingrad? Bet it was the Chump's fault.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Dutch

[Faustnik]

sorry.error

Edited December 20, 2012 by Faustnik

[FlatSpinMan]

Hey

I've not really read this thread in detail but this "Chump" stuff stuff is not on. It just creates the kind of ill will we are trying to avoid.

[FlatSpinMan]

And Dutch, it is not about how much you would pay, rather, "for price X, which plane would you buy?"

As for the FW stuff, it is an option in the poll so comments about it - for and against - are fair game.

On that note, given how hard it seems to prove that FW's were operating over Stalingrad, while evidence for other types is abundant, my vote would not be for the Fw190 (as much as I like that evil buggar of a plane), but for something that was definitely there.

[Dutch]

Look, I'm not here to argue with someone who's trying to defend someone we both know of old. I have my opinions of Chump, and there isn't a great deal that'll sway them, whichever history of whichever forum you choose to mention.

 

The poll is about buying aircraft. Read my posts again. Please.

[99th_WorfWorf]

Welp, als long as I can get the P-40 and the Razorback I'll be fine. Good to see so many old friends here. It already feels like home.

 

Worf

[Bearcat]

Good to see you Dave..

 

This is supposed to be a poll about how much people would pay for an aircraft. How did it become an analysis of aircraft present 550km from Stalingrad? Bet it was the Chump's fault.

 

 

Look, I'm not here to argue with someone who's trying to defend someone we both know of old. I have my opinions of Chump, and there isn't a great deal that'll sway them, whichever history of whichever forum you choose to mention.

 

The poll is about buying aircraft. Read my posts again. Please.

See ya later my friend.. We will read your posts in a day.

[AbortedMan]

Hurricane I DH with 87 octane,  Rotol with 87 and 100 octane

Spitfire I 2 stage prop and CPS,  87 and 100 octane

Bf109E1 ~ 4, Bf110, Stuka's, He111P's, Do-17's and Ju88A's,  Blenheims, Hampdens, Battles, Wimpy's and Defiants, He115, Tiger Moth etc etc etc.

Big map of the English channel from Normandy to Bristol and London

 

Don't care for Russia or the Pacific.

 

I see what you did there...zing!

 

I voted for P-40. I think the Lend-Lease aircraft, including the P-39 variants, as relatively crappy as they were will be huge sellers. It's been a while since any US aircraft have seen the light of a modern popular sim, save for DCS and the P-51...but that doesn't really count.

[Bearcat]

Me wants LaGG-3, LA-5 and Bf-109F.

Those are the ones I'll be flying 99% of the time anyway (I suppose, just like in IL-2).

 

B)

____________________

*voted for Friedrich, as for some weird reason I can't vote for multiple crafts, LaGG isn't even listed

 

Pretty much.. minus the BF 109 for me.. I am wondering if there were P-39s in Stalingrad....  It would be great if the !AR 80 was in there..

[4./JG53_Wotan]

Pretty much.. minus the BF 109 for me.. I am wondering if there were P-39s in Stalingrad....  It would be great if the !AR 80 was in there..

Unless your version of the "Battle of Stalinhrad" is the same as Crump's then there were no P-39s involved - just like the Fw 190s.

 

For Lend Lease you could get in a few Hurricanes, P-40s, and some A-20Cs.

 

IMHO they should set the Theater (which they did: Stalingrad), and set the time frame (which they did: Operation Uranus through Operation Winter Storm), and then focus the plane set on those parameters before meandering off and adding aircraft that played no roll in the battle they are framing. Its frustrating for some history geeks like me when theaters and battles are not fully developed before moving onto something else. In the Old il-2 this occurred often, and to a smaller degree in CloD. Missing aircraft and / or incomplete maps are an immersion killer for some of us - more so then clickpits and other useless features.

Edited December 20, 2012 by 4./JG53_Wotan

[VaeTibi]

Well if a FW then this one,

 

 

 

every other is a "what if" then you might as well add Zeros too.

[ShamrockOneFive]

As much as it's not the "sexy" aircraft... the Yak-7B was well flown at Stalingrad particularly by 434 IAP. But that was more during the opening phases of the battle. By Operation Uranus I'm not sure what they were flying although I think they held on to their Yak-7B's through the winter and slowly began accepting Yak-1B's to the squadron during the final encirclement. Either way... Yaks. I'd like a few of them.

[4./JG53_Wotan]

The Yak 7B was most definately at Stalingrad - in fact they could include 2 variants of the Yak 7B. One equipped with an M-105PA engine and one equipped with an M-105PF engine.

Edited December 20, 2012 by 4./JG53_Wotan

[Crump]

JG53 Wotan says:

Unless your version of the "Battle of Stalinhrad" is the same as Crump's then there were no P-39s involved - just like the Fw 190s.

 

 

 

 

 

Crump says:

That is correct.  The FW-190's were operational but were deployed further north at the Demyansk Mushroom.  I mis-read the sentence in the book.  They arrived on the first day of the Stalingrad Offensive.  That does not mean they arrived at Stalingrad, which I took it to mean.

 

Can we move on?  Or is your goal something else?

[BlitzPig_EL]

I believe the first VVs P39s were obtained from the RAF after the RAF deemed them unacceptable for European combat conditions.

 

Not sure of the year though, and these would have had 20mm Hispano cannon in place of the 37mm gun.

[Caudron431]

Yes thats what he means i believe.

 

Being no where near seems not to matter, so by the same logic i'd like a spitfire mk IX as they were also present in service during Stalingrad, but not actually there itself.

Is believing that a Fw190A was present from the beginning of the Battle of  Stalingrad an as "big" mistake as to believe that a Spitfire mkIX was there too on the same front and at the same moment?

 

Unless you are trying to make the poster look more stupid than the mistake he actually did (and recognized BTW), that's a very poor analogy.

 

 

 

Unless your version of the "Battle of Stalinhrad" is the same as Crump's then there were no P-39s involved - just like the Fw 190s.

 

 

Same remark here.

 

I like to have people with great historical knowledge around here for there's always something to learn from them, and i'm grateful for this, but there must be a way to correct people's mistakes with a better attitude... -_-

Edited December 20, 2012 by RegRag1977

[Caudron431]

I believe the first VVs P39s were obtained from the RAF after the RAF deemed them unacceptable for European combat conditions.

 

Not sure of the year though, and these would have had 20mm Hispano cannon in place of the 37mm gun.

Yes, i think you're correct:

 

"In the wake of the destruction of the Soviet Air Force in the first weeks of the war, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill quickly offered to send fighters to the Communists in order to help them stave off defeat. The RAF did not have enough Spitfires for itself in mid-1941, and duly could spare none for Russia, so the first assistance sent consisted of secondhand Hurricanes, which began arriving at Murmansk in late July.

Very quickly RAF decided that it could also spare lend-lease Tomahawks and Kittyhawks, as well as all the Airacobras Is which had not already been returned to the United States.

The first Bell fighters were shippped to Murmansk at the end of December 1941, with more following in 1942. The British sent 212 Airacobra Is in all via the northern route to Murmansk, 54 of which were lost en route."

 

extract from: P39 Airacobra Aces of World War 2, Gearge Mellinger and John Stanaway, p.50.

 

So i think the first soviet Kobras were exactly the same as these:

 

Edited December 20, 2012 by RegRag1977

[BlitzPig_EL]

And most of the rest of the RAF P 39s ended up in the South West Pacific.

 

 

Over Guadalcanal.