Are we our own worst enemies ?

[dburne]

 

 

Some are not happy but if I read correctly most are.

 

While I hope you are right, based on all I am seeing I am concerned that may not be the case.

 

Time will tell.

[Pigomortis]

Speaking of flight simulations this is the best for the moment it is not finished but nearly so!

Best is a subjective term...I am finding that sims that are 2-4+ years  older have features that I want in a sim and this one does not.  Newest, yes...best? not yet.

Edited October 18, 2014 by PIgomortis

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Best is a subjective term...I am finding that sims that are 2-4+ years  older have features that I want in a sim and this one does not.  Newest, yes...best? not yet.

Subjective is absolutely right. When I'm flying on a mission based server with a few friends, there's nothing out there that even comes close to this in terms of immersion and the feeling of flight.

[FlatSpinMan]

@Psychotic Shroom - stay on topic and avoid making things personal.

[silent_one]

I agree with the OP general points.

Personally Im not a fan of the unlocks.  I wan to play the game my own way. However I know how addictive unlocks are in other games.  I haven't played War thunder or its ilk. ( it seems in this community to admit to have played such is like saying your a pedophile here, its just a game. get over it. ) I have played a lot of Battlefield and Call of Duty in my day. In these unlocks of kit are hugely addictive and get players to play much longer in the quest to get " the perfect kit."  So while I dont agree that this transposes to a flight sim, I can understand their thinking.

 

I agree with the OP that the community can be its own worst enemy at times. On this and other forums esp DCS , there can be a real tang of elitism and rude, arrogant behavior.  The only exception I can think of is the ATAG forum. I think the negative vibe can chase people off . Gamers and developers both.  Some people seem to have forgotten that BOS is just a game and its for entertainment.

Edited October 19, 2014 by silent_one

[BlitzPig_EL]

S!

 

 I know quite a few players from original IL-2 series(and other sims of that matter) that won't get BoS after being able to see and test it. A shame really, but can't force them either. Many of them have followed silently the development process without posting anything here, but talking in RL. Credits to BoS are given where they are due, but too many open issues and gamey features and lack of options are basically the biggest turn offs. Hoping hard that after release, it being a successfull one, changes would come to attract the "lost sheep"..

 

Flanker, with one exception, this describes most of the folks that I used to fly with In the original IL2, in all it's versions.  They are indeed sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how BoS plays out after release.

 

Why?

 

They are gun shy after the debacle of CLoD, and are skeptical that the same team that did RoF can develop a WW2 sim with all the content needed to make the scale of the WW2 battlefield palpable.

 

Then there are those unlocks.  Sorry to keep bringing it up, but no one wants them.  No one.

Edited October 19, 2014 by ElAurens

[Feathered_IV]

Crikey.  Don't worry too muh El.   Its a computer game, not a new heart valve.  I promise you, there's plenty enough there already to get your money's worth, and then some.

[pilotpierre]

Crikey.  Don't worry too muh El.   Its a computer game, not a new heart valve.  I promise you, there's plenty enough there already to get your money's worth, and then some.

+1

[6high]

 

They are gun shy after the debacle of CLoD, and are skeptical that the same team that did RoF can develop a WW2 sim with all the content needed to make the scale of the WW2 battlefield palpable.

 

Then there are those unlocks.  Sorry to keep bringing it up, but no one wants them.  No one.

Regarding the reference to IL2 - all of us "old" simmers , and the bystanders you mention (i was one of those "traumatized" by CloD ) should remember that Il2 came without a lot of content upon release in 2001. It developed into what we loved through a lot of developer assistance as well as the support of a growing and talented community. Those are the days i remember you, ElAurens, F-IV, and a lot others on this forum from.

I am optimistic that with BoS we got a solid base to do similar things. Now we just need to get the online war crowd in , and let people like AbortedMan take care of our needs.

And about the unlocks- let`s wait and see what happens to this feature.

 

6

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 

 It is not all about content, it is about lack of options of any kind. Force feeding the vision of devs to the player. If our stats are being wiped at release I won't go through the hell of grinding the planes again, almost done with ALL planes now. Also the FM's are questionable in regard of the Energy, which you have so much available and easily recoverable. Acceleration values are like twice of the historical values and even in game tests prove this. But the "magic cold air" just gives your average engine 2000hp+ and performance from manga movies One of my friends put it quite well: Then you know the simulation part is well done when pilot skill matters, not how fast you can yank the stick or game the game. That you really have to fly the plane, tell it where to go.

 

 Also some what people call so feeling realistic: the belly first turns you see. Pugachev's cobras in propellor planes, moving like modern jets? Frankly the planes that FEEL like behaving ones are: Pe-2, He111 and Stuka. Rest are "pimp my ww2 ride" manga style Do not know what to blame for it, the abundance of Energy retained/gained so easily or weightless feel of the planes, like RoF with just different 3D models? Gunnery is among the best there is, have to give BoS that and bombing/rocketing accuracy and results.

 

 So sorry to pee on your parade, but the gamey feel and other issues is mainly what keeps people away from this title. For now that is. If the issues are tackled and worked on, yes some might even get into this franchise as it is the best looking of them at the moment and holds a lot of promise. But all it boild down to the willingness of the devs to REALLY listen to the community and make changes. To rub it in, anyone would like the options like that..?

 

 

Edited October 19, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

[Rjel]

For almost two years now, we've had post after post about un-named simmers who are just holding out, not happy, not going to buy. By golly, there must be millions of folks out there waiting in the darkness to see which way BoS goes.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Not millions, but quite a lot from the old cadre so to say. Every game wants so much have a piece of the success from titles like WT or WoT that implementation of their game mechanics are seen as a saviour to the genre. I see it the opposite, but that is only me..and quite a few others' opinion.

[Albino]

+ 1 OP

 

Thank you.

[BigPickle]

For almost two years now, we've had post after post about un-named simmers who are just holding out, not happy, not going to buy. By golly, there must be millions of folks out there waiting in the darkness to see which way BoS goes.

 

There's a lot mate, when you combine the high price, the limited A/C (compared to other IL games) and the bad tatste from the downfall of CLOD, people are naturally wary, I know of many clans that probably wont come to BOS because of above.

Edited October 19, 2014 by BigPickle

[CaK_Rumcajs]

There's a lot mate, when you combine the high price, the limited A/C (compared to other IL games) and the bad tatste from the downfall of CLOD, people are naturally wary, I know of many clans that probably wont come to BOS because of above.

Also when you add there is nothing on the market that would come even remotely close to BOS. When you account for uncertainty of the word "probably" you'll get a totally different picture. Also many for you may be just 0.001 for the entire picture.

Flight simmers spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on their equipment, build their home cocpits, do not hesitate to go to every vitange air show 1000 miles around and suddenly 99$ is too much. No. I'm not worried.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 The thing is that I know EXACTLY what I get when I go out and buy the flight sim gear, items for a home cockpit or go to the air show some distance away or whatever. But shelling out money on something that is only words, until otherwise proven, is a different story. Sounds hypocrite, maybe, but I would expect some returns on my investments as well. I do not believe in riding on the hype of a franchise or an estabilished brand, in a way that gives way too much leeway to devs as they can be sure the "fanboi army" will forgive them lapses here and there, and the critics will be supressed in the process. Add to the mix this unexplained eagerness to follow World of Tanks or War Thunder model, mostly in bad, and there is not much left of a "legend". Create your own, do not copycat. I will not lick the boots of any devs, never have and never will. Words are cheap and the product speaks for itself how well they have succeeded.

[TJT]

Also when you add there is nothing on the market that would come even remotely close to BOS. When you account for uncertainty of the word "probably" you'll get a totally different picture. Also many for you may be just 0.001 for the entire picture.

Flight simmers spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on their equipment, build their home cocpits, do not hesitate to go to every vitange air show 1000 miles around and suddenly 99$ is too much. No. I'm not worried.

 

Not every simmer have a bottomless wallet so to speak, that is a false assumption to make.

[BlitzPig_EL]

6high,  While it's very true that the original IL2 v1.0 had a limited plane set, it did have large numbers of the things that make needing an air force a necessity, that is, ground units.  Tanks, trucks, artillery, ships, etc...  and, you could place large numbers of them on a map and make a convincing  land battle scenario, which is something that the RoF engine, to this day, simply cannot do.  Also there is the fact that the original IL2 FMB, while complex for it's time, was still able to be understood and used by a numpty like me, to make such things happen, unlike the RoF mission editor, which is a developer's tool and was never intended for use by the players.

 

Add in the fact that user made skins were part of the program from the beginning, and were easy (relatively) to do and add in to the sim.

 

These are genuine issues for those of us that were IL2 players from the beginning of the franchise.  Players that bought every expansion, played almost every day for over ten years, guys that contributed their time for research, beta testing, mission and skin pack making, 3D model making, map making, guys that were contributors to the progress of this franchise.  People who genuinely care about combat flight simulation.

 

We want this genre to survive and flourish, but it seems that forces on the other side of the interface, probably driven by the publishing house and not the dev team, want to write us out of the script for the next iteration, because they want, IMHO, the the kinds of numbers of players that only very low involvement games like WT can get.

 

Hence unlocks.

 

Hence the too easy FMs that people that I trust are reporting.

 

I'm not an angry man shaking his fist at the world here, I am a sad and disappointed one, seeing something that I really enjoy starting on the long walk to extinction.

Edited October 19, 2014 by ElAurens

[FlatSpinMan]

"Lick the boots", "fanbois"?? Tone it down Flanker. That language is going to cause trouble, in which case I'll lock the thread and ban people.

I'd rather not do that.

[Dakpilot]

6high,  While it's very true that the original IL2 v1.0 had a limited plane set, it did have large numbers of the things that make needing an air force a necessity, that is, ground units.  Tanks, trucks, artillery, ships, etc...  and, you could place large numbers of them on a map and make a convincing  land battle scenario, which is something that the RoF engine, to this day, simply cannot do. 

 

Maybe the RoF DN engine from two+ years ago could not but the BoS DN engine IS quite capable of that, simply repeating hearsay from others about out of date info does not make it true, no matter how often it is repeated

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwebS57OvLc

My rig is a Intel i5 2500k (stock clock), 8GB RAM, and a reference GTX 670. This was played at normal speed. There aren't many very tall buildings in Stalingrad, apparently, so I used what I could. There aren't any hangars that have their doors open wide enough for my aircraft to fit through so I couldn't make the uber dangerous indoor flying bits. I created the raceway itself in just a couple minutes, but it was boring as hell so I added some action scenery, which took about 45 minutes to test and get everything not crashing into the track and still being close enough to see.

I'm fully confident that this could be doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled and beyond in length and numbers of AI, and then played with 60-70 players, though it would be a hilarious mess. The mission I created for Eagle's Nest has MUCH more going on at once than this

 

 

 

A.M. discussing what is Really possible with ME in BoS currently

 

"I thought I'd chime in just to clear up some misinformation I've seen regarding BoS mission creation. I'm here solely to objectively show what I've seen from my experience in the BoS ME to help clarify any misconceptions that may have come from the usual rumor mill stuff. I know I'm not the most famous around here for whatever reasons, but feel free to take this information as purely neutral and for clarification purposes from someone that has experienced Digital Nature's most current mission creation revisions.

 

The ME interface is exactly like what I've seen from RoF ME, though I have not created any missions for RoF. From what I've been told by caryatid, as we were working together as he was porting his RoF dynamic mission structure to the BoS mission I created and was hosting on the Eagle's Nest server, is that BoS could support a lot more mission objects (AI, buildings, etc) than RoF could by a longshot. I've never had any experience with RoF other than playing it so I can't comment on that, but the latest mission I had on a 60 player server supported the following:

 

 

• 200 German AI armor pieces advancing to four different VVS airfields (50 at each base with a two hour travel time from the west)
• 240 AAA pieces (24 at each German/Russian base)
• 2 locomotives with a route spanning halfway across the play space of the map (~Stalingrad to Kalach) with a supply/repair function
• ~11,500 destructible city/village/town buildings, bridges, railroad stations across the map
• ~200 destructible tents/bunkers/aircraft/fuel dump mission objective oriented objects at each airfield
• ~500 MCU/mission trigger type objects, timers, and check zones (that could be bigger, I haven't counted...other than the complex triggers, I'm not sure if they take significant resources)

Mission objectives included:

 

 

• AI tank formations attacking airfields, rendering them neutralized if successful.

  -Neutralized airfields had triggers that allowed specific player flown He-111's to land and capture the base for use by German players.

• Destruction/disabling of airfields based on player flown missions for airfield attack/static aircraft destruction.

  -Resupply system based on truck convoys and railroad routes to re-enable disabled airfields

• Objective counters for both teams
• Aircraft resupply system allowing He-111 players to act as a transport/supply role to front airfields

My last tests on the fully populated server of 60 players included all of this and 18 AI bombers and fighters running patrols and base-disabling carpet bombing missions without a hitch. Was going to expand on this but ran out of time.

 

This was achieved on a virtual private server provided by NFO, which was a ten core Nehalem CPU @2.26Ghz (dserver running on two cores) with 10GB of RAM and maintained CPU usage under 13% with dserver simulations per second (sps) at ~35sps (50sps is baseline/optimal, 20sps is when things start visually lagging), so it was very playable and had room to expand. This is not an ideal powerhouse of a machine (bit of a budget box), but it served our purposes just fine. A dedicated box with a better, higher frequency CPU (dserver was not made to run on multiple cores, apparently) would probably allow a lot more in the mission and allow for higher player numbers (70 players was our all time max, but I was too busy playing and didn't look at server metrics, so I'm not sure if the server was choking)...but that is a bit of conjecture.

 

Stating that more than 50 objects in one area is not possible in BoS is a misconception and false...also, the BoS engine is capable of placing and playing thousands of objects in a mission. "Objects" being a bit of a blanket statement, I'd clarify those to be buildings, AAA batteries, and static aircraft/airfield assets. Additionally, Bliss, you are under the impression that a specific type of aircraft could not be limited by how many are in the air/spawned at a time, which is very possible using "OnKilled"/"OnSpawn" triggers in conjunction with a variation of <this object group> and naming the type of plane you want limited (just one way to do it). I didn't make that group, but was able to leverage the community to have it sent to me in template form so it was easily portable (click, click, done) from RoF to BoS.

 

It is a correct statement that the current DN engine cannot handle thousands or hundreds of aircraft in the air at once in SP and definitely not in MP. I don't think that is the goal of the game though, as I cannot find any historical evidence of such a formation/furball/simultaneous air operations in the Stalingrad theater.

 

I hope this shows a little insight on the topic. I'm not trying to offend, encroach, insult, convince, or deter anyone from anything or anyone by posting this. I play both BoS, DCS and CloD online and enjoy them equally for their respective merits."

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited October 19, 2014 by Dakpilot

[Jaws2002]

Il-2 was many things for many people. That's what made it so popular. Some play off line e missions, some played campaigns, some played easy dogfights some played hard online wars. Many played coops, some got the kick from making skins, others from making missions. We even had a bunch of players who liked air racing and there were a bunch of missions made for that.

That's what made il-2 awesome. The developer understood that not all players are the same and can't be forced into a narrow, limited type of play.

From what I've seen, many of Bos developers in Russia come from a few online squads, who enjoyed a certain type of online play. They think their way of playing is the right way. The offline campaign shows signs of one made by on liners as many people put it.

This is what, in my opinion is the biggest wrong with BOS. People being forced to play a certain way.

[6high]

.....

I'm not an angry man shaking his fist at the world here, I am a sad and disappointed one, seeing something that I really enjoy starting on the long walk to extinction.

El, i hear you and agree on your above points- it`s just that for me there is no alternative to BoS whe it comes to the sensation of "being there". Last time i had this was in IL2. Now the rest, where this will go an what it`ll turn into is speculation for me, part because i am not proficient in things like skinning, 3d modelling or map making, and part because there are so many variables in the coming developement.

The biggest will surely be sales numbes, i just think we cannot excpect any dev`s to be as idealistic as "be sure" and his fellows were...if it don`t sell, then it won`t survive. If it sells, then perhaps there might be chance for us "old timers" to use the core of the game (not sim) to suit our needs.

And regarding the FMB- i hear different ppl saying different things. Some state it`s learnable, some think it`s pandora`s box. Maybe we just don`t like learning new ways

Anyway, catch you out there, hopefully in a P40 someday.

 

6

[Juri_JS]

 And regarding the FMB- i hear different ppl saying different things. Some state it`s learnable, some think it`s pandora`s box. Maybe we just don`t like learning new ways

It took me a weekend to learn the basics of mission building in RoF with the available tutorials and create my first missions, so obviously it isn't rocket science.

 

The RoF mission editor uses a visual script system, which makes it completely different from the Il-2 1946 mission editor. I think that's the main reason why many Il-2 veterans are so sceptical about it. When I looked at it the first time I also thought it was overly complex, but once you take the first step and understand the underlying concepts it is actually not too complicated.

[avlSteve]

Crikey.  Don't worry too muh El.   Its a computer game, not a new heart valve.  I promise you, there's plenty enough there already to get your money's worth, and then some.

 

I feel like I've gotten my money's worth from the forums alone.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Maybe the RoF DN engine from two+ years ago could not but the BoS DN engine IS quite capable of that, simply repeating hearsay from others about out of date info does not make it true, no matter how often it is repeated

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

 

Interesting.  And thanks.

 

How many objects can be placed and hosted online using a current spec PC with the player as host?  And how many players could a personal player/host support?

 

I ask this because in IL2 I hosted regularly for our guys on my personal machines over the years.   This is a big part of what we did, and what we still would like to do.

Edited October 19, 2014 by ElAurens

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

6high, While it's very true that the original IL2 v1.0 had a limited plane set, it did have large numbers of the things that make needing an air force a necessity, that is, ground units. Tanks, trucks, artillery, ships, etc... and, you could place large numbers of them on a map and make a convincing land battle scenario, which is something that the RoF engine, to this day, simply cannot do. Also there is the fact that the original IL2 FMB, while complex for it's time, was still able to be understood and used by a numpty like me, to make such things happen, unlike the RoF mission editor, which is a developer's tool and was never intended for use by the players.

 

Add in the fact that user made skins were part of the program from the beginning, and were easy (relatively) to do and add in to the sim.

 

These are genuine issues for those of us that were IL2 players from the beginning of the franchise. Players that bought every expansion, played almost every day for over ten years, guys that contributed their time for research, beta testing, mission and skin pack making, 3D model making, map making, guys that were contributors to the progress of this franchise. People who genuinely care about combat flight simulation.

 

We want this genre to survive and flourish, but it seems that forces on the other side of the interface, probably driven by the publishing house and not the dev team, want to write us out of the script for the next iteration, because they want, IMHO, the the kinds of numbers of players that only very low involvement games like WT can get.

 

Hence unlocks.

 

Hence the too easy FMs that people that I trust are reporting.

 

I'm not an angry man shaking his fist at the world here, I am a sad and disappointed one, seeing something that I really enjoy starting on the long walk to extinction.

El mate... U know i have pretty much the same background in regards to flightsim as u, and the original IL2 in particular... And I know you know that we share the same views on "realism". I would suggest that once...if.. U decide to but into BoD you will pleasantly surprised. I would suggest that u make up your own mind about fm map, realism etc etc by playing yourself instead of taling too much impression from others. Hopefully they will produce a demo.... At leastvthen u can get the feel for the product before u decide wether to but or not..

 

 

Am i happy with BoS. As is is today, yes very much so. There are some things that can improve the game immensly that are still missimg... But the core is rock solid and i have highr hopes the developers will deliver most things we need:want

Edited October 19, 2014 by SvAF_Klunk

[BlitzPig_EL]

It took me a weekend to learn the basics of mission building in RoF with the available tutorials and create my first missions, so obviously it isn't rocket science.

 

The RoF mission editor uses a visual script system, which makes it completely different from the Il-2 1946 mission editor. I think that's the main reason why many Il-2 veterans are so sceptical about it. When I looked at it the first time I also thought it was overly complex, but once you take the first step and understand the underlying concepts it is actually not too complicated.

 

 

Juri, 

 

I tried to learn the RoF editor a couple of times.  Watched the video tutorials, etc...   I am not an IT professional, and much of what was said in the tutorials I watched seemed to me to take into account that anyone that tried the ME was one.

I just gave up because I was totally lost.

 

That was not the case with IL2's FMB.

 

Honestly the RoF/BoS ME needs a lot of streamlining for the average user.  We are not all computer science graduates after all.

I'm just a guy that likes aeroplanes.

Thanks Klunk.

 

Appreciate the info and thoughts.

[Dakpilot]

Interesting.  And thanks.

 

How many objects can be placed and hosted online using a current spec PC with the player as host?  And how many players could a personal player/host support?

 

I ask this because in IL2 I hosted regularly for our guys on my personal machines over the years.   This is a big part of what we did, and what we still would like to do.

 

I do not have answers for that but I imagine a rough idea could be taken from what is possible today in RoF,best to enquire at RoF forums, however I think it best to wait and see until after release of BoS as things seem to change (for the better) on a daily basis.

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Leaf]

Hence the too easy FMs that people that I trust are reporting.

 

 

Ha! That's stopped me from taking you seriously in any way. 

 

You obviously don't have a clue. There's no such thing as an "easy FM". Unaccurate? Maybe. Docile? Possibly. But not "easy". I mean, have you ever flown any aircraft in the game?

[Leaf]

Meh tinks mon! Dat you jump da gun!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Ha! That's stopped me from taking you seriously in any way. 

 

You obviously don't have a clue. There's no such thing as an "easy FM". Unaccurate? Maybe. Docile? Possibly. But not "easy". I mean, have you ever flown any aircraft in the game?

 

If you had been following along you would have known that I have not purchased the sim.   Perhaps "easy" is the wrong descriptor, I admit.  

 

However, when someone like Flanker, who is a very old hand at this, describes the experience like he did, I have no reason to doubt it.

 

These are the reasons why I come here, and ask about things, to learn, to understand, and to not blindly purchase something that may or may not be the "new best".

 

I am waiting for release to see what the thing is like, as I have no intention of grinding up in the offline campaign, only to have all that work wiped clean.

My time is dear, so I try not to do the same thing twice.   As you grow older, this approach make a lot of sense.

 

If the sim pans out as I hope, then I will gladly buy every aircraft that I won't get because I did not pre-purchase the Alpha/Beta builds  I did that for RoF when I came back to it, even though I did, and do disagree with the business model.

 

Just to help the genre...

 

Be sure.

[Juri_JS]

Juri, 

 

I tried to learn the RoF editor a couple of times.  Watched the video tutorials, etc...   I am not an IT professional, and much of what was said in the tutorials I watched seemed to me to take into account that anyone that tried the ME was one.

I just gave up because I was totally lost.

 

That was not the case with IL2's FMB.

 

Honestly the RoF/BoS ME needs a lot of streamlining for the average user.  We are not all computer science graduates after all.

I'm just a guy that likes aeroplanes.

Thanks Klunk.

 

Appreciate the info and thoughts.

My experience was exactly the same when I started experimenting with the RoF editor, but after some hours things started to make sense. I don't know how the developers could make it easier for new users to overcome this first hurdle.

Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt that a Il-2 1946 style FMB is possible in RoF/BoS because of the completely different mission file structure. Although some streamlining and automation of certain steps of the mission building process could surely be achieved.

[Leaf]

If you had been following along you would have known that I have not purchased the sim.   Perhaps "easy" is the wrong descriptor, I admit.  

 

I haven't been following along, admittedly, hence my fairly precise criticism. 

 

However, when someone like Flanker, who is a very old hand at this, describes the experience like he did, I have no reason to doubt it.

 

Fine, but bear in mind that every word uttered here is subjective. Mine, his, everyone's. So take all opinions into account when forming your own, don't just cherrypick ones that happen to fit into your point of view. I love the game, as do many others. I see its flaws and weaknesses, but also see that those need time to be fixed. In the meantime, it's a great game, very fun, and I've already got my money's worth out of it. The only major thing to criticise right now is the idea of XP and unlocks. 

 

These are the reasons why I come here, and ask about things, to learn, to understand, and to not blindly purchase something that may or may not be the "new best".

 

Fair enough.

 

I am waiting for release to see what the thing is like, as I have no intention of grinding up in the offline campaign, only to have all that work wiped clean.

My time is dear, so I try not to do the same thing twice.   As you grow older, this approach make a lot of sense.

 

Sensible enough. But please don't tell me about lack of time. I am way too familiar with it.

 

[johncage]

 

 

All this I'm taking the moral high-ground nonsense is pathetic.

The concept that "I'm better than you because you have dared to criticise" is anathematic.

 

beautiful.

 

my enthusiasm has abated recently because this attitude is rampant and it's making the devs lose focus.

 

just because nobody else is willing  make themselves competition, doesn't mean the devs should settle for less. no, always push the envelope. constructive criticism helps achieve this.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Can't blame me for being a Luftwaffe pilot only, soon unlocked every darn plane in the game. Flown them all inside and out, started with VVS "campaign". Yes the FM "feels" lively and pretty fluid, but that's it. Too many oddities and quirks to say it is the "best". Sure among the best yes. For example the only hard plane to land right away is the Pe-2, rest are more or less a walk in the park. When you are even the slightest damaged or even wounded your plane starts the "harlem shake", like caught in a tumbler. You can get the FM into a "locked" state in certain situations etc. If devs had the luxury of having a few more months to polish then BoS would be totally different. Tight budget and time table shows, and not always in the positive way.

 

 Potential is there, just needs a lot of work still. IMHO.

[silent_one]

Has everyone forgot that the original Il2 didnt have many planes in it. Plus it was buggy as hell at the start.

 

LAst night I just played a terrible and boring escort mission.  Escape button not working so I couldn't get out of it. even at my base. escorted some he111 to target. My track IR jumping arouind like a slideshow. Though strangely nothing else effected, plane still flying smooth. Get to end of mission and some LAgs attack some far off 109's . All over by time I sight them. Without icons even finding the battle would have been impossible anyway.  So monotonous and buggy. Terrible mission. ON THE OTHER HAND THE GAMES BUGGY AND UNFINISHED!!!.  So IM giving it some slack. I expect even when its finished itll take months to polish.  Il2 on 2001 was unpolished and needed  a lot of work on release. This game isnt even finished and some people are whining like ebola's hit their neighborhood and 777 are responsible . lol.

 

As for grinding. Thats on you. If you want to fly a plane fly it because you want to. We all know this is early access if we dont loose our stats Id be very surprised. It wouldn't be very fair to some new guy who just bough the game in the shop to find a bunch of players already fitted up with all the goodies on day one.

 

I think were lucky to be part of early access. They just as easy could have done a CLOD and given us a few screenies and then dumped it on us.

 

Remember its only a game

Edited October 20, 2014 by silent_one

[RydnDirty]

We all pre ordered and supported the developers with our wallets. Part of the deal was to give constructive criticism as the game is developed and hopefully if enough people feel the same way and post about it the devs will check the forum to see what we think. Of course the debate gets ugly with so many opinions. 

 

When I criticise the game in this forum, it is in the hope that lots of people share my complaints and the devs will listen. Forcing the experienced players to play hours against the AI offline is not going to work. I just won't do it. Not because I am being childish but because I have better things to do. 

 

If we didn't complain when we think they are making a mistake we would not be doing them any favours.