I had a dream ...

[JG27_Steini]

Hi Gentlemen,

 

since Il2 1946  became moddable i lost a lot of fun flying online. Since 5 years now i have not flown online. Since the announcement of BOS i hoped that i could find the fun again in flying in SP or MP.

As i tried the campaign i was really disapointed. As many of you i fly simulations since 20 years and i have seen great sims like Red Baron 2, European Air War and of course IL2. I honestly dont understand how it is possible to build a campaign that is less interessting then a 20 years old game. The current campaign has no soul, no heart, nothing an WW2 airwar fan like me would interesset. I would like to use the chance and give you an idea what a campaign should look like

 

- let the player choose VVS or Luftwaffe at the beginning of campaing or make it optional. Switching the side destroys any emotional association with the conflict

- give the Pilot a name and choose a squadron. Squadrons are the historical link, everyone of us has in his mind. Let us participate in a famous squadron with other famous pilots

- dont let the pilot choose a type of plane or make it optional, it also destroys much immersion with the game

- build up roster, build a squadron with other pilots flying with you as in EAW. I loved to see other pilots growing in experience and i cried when they died, i helped them and i covered. The game is actually total anonymus. It is a great fun when you can mess with own pilots in your roster and growing in your rank

- i like the map, but show us some actions, any information about movements, happenings etc.

- the interface looks good, but in the the campaig i wanna see historical things, the current grafics have nothing to do with WW2, show us planes, images, situatios etc.

- give the player with higher ranks the opportunity to manager rosters as in EAW, let the player deside who will be his "Kaszmarek"

 

These are only a few important things. If some of the developers have flown Red Baron 2 or EAW they would know what i mean. The current campaign mode is simple no campaign. You have the body, now give a heart and a soul. Make it a personality. Instead of unlok weapons care about the truth that sim fans need a link to history, squadrons and pilots. Compare your campaign with EAW from 1999 or Red Baron 2 from 1997 and you will understand.

 

Thx for reading.

Edited October 17, 2014 by JG27JG27_Steini

[Finkeren]

In other words: Remake the career mode from IL-2 1946.

 

Yeah, I think a lot of us wanted that, but that was not the vision the devs had.

 

It's alright though. So far the improvements to the campaign have been good, and we can count on 3rd parties starting work on some good campaign/career stuff, once BoS launches offcially.

[=VARP=Cygann]

Exactly how I feel, and honestly, I think most of the community that has any interest in SP at all probably feels the same way.

[=LD=Hethwill]

 I know there is no need to reinvent the wheel and how some old ideas can be refurbished.

 

I want something new, not a remake.

[Finkeren]

You don't have to reinvent the wheel, but it can still be a good idea to put a few of them onto that new car you're designing.

[Feathered_IV]

I was tired of Il-2's campaign presentation 6-7 years ago. Time for something better.

[=LD=Hethwill]

You don't have to reinvent the wheel, but it can still be a good idea to put a few of them onto that new car you're designing.

 

Yep, refurbish old good ideas. Taking on a car analogy, use 4 wheels, a manual gearbox,  and steering wheel. 

[I./JG1_Baron]

I understand you guys. On the other hand - I'm sure that the campaign will be redesigned in order to be satisfied. I'm coming out of constructive communication (mostly) with the developers and the experience of RoF. I hope that time will make the campaign which will be generated missions - and we will be able to turn history. Unlike many others I do not think that the current campaign is not good. On the contrary, it is excellent - but as a training campaign for newcomers before entering the fight. Something like training camp. It is extremely impersonal. Just "merging" with the squadron's what's missing. Yet there is no need to do a lot - after all, they already have experience of RoF, where is this campaign offers (although it is still in Beta mode - about it forever - even though I prepared a pile of beautiful flight hours). So I am optimistic about BoS and campaign (s).

[avlSteve]

I think a lot of people were expecting "campaign" to be a "career" mode, where you role play the flights of a pilot, but what was delivered was a mode that outlines the Battle of Stalingrad "campaign", from both sides.

 

I also would also love to see a "career" mode, but I am having a great time with the campaign as is.

Edited October 17, 2014 by avlSteve

[Finkeren]

My problem is, that it's not really a "campaign" in the traditional sense. There's no real sense of the passing of time (simply having 5 fairly similar "chapters" which you have to grind point to progress through doesn't really cut it), no sense of continuity, no sense that any of the actions matter for the progression, no historical squads or troop movements, no sense of a moving frontline (other than the very nicely looking campaign map which has no impact on game play whatsoever) and no indication of the shifting tides of war in the battle.

 

As I've said before: The missions themselves are nice enough, and I truly don't mind grinding those points, but there is no sense of immersion and next to nothing that would actually make this a campaign in more than just name.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Finkeren

[=LD=Hethwill]

There is no sense of connection to the outcome of your mission in the big picture, that is true Finkeren.

[Finkeren]

I actually think the worst part of it is the lack of a sense if passing of time. If only they had the campaign spread out over 90 individual days (or however long a period the campaign is supposed to cover) then at least you'd get a sense of being part of some kind of progression, even if your actions don't matter at all.

[=LD=Hethwill]

True.

 

Hope some sort of... procedural generation for both missions and briefing/debriefing comes along at the healthy expense of the time spent on unlocks tbh.

 

Plus would be nice to reset a campaign career.

[avlSteve]

Yes, I think everyone was a little disappointed that there isn't a "story" to follow. 

 

As bad as that is, I need to get off these forums so I can binge fly the campaign all weekend.  Maybe pop out on MP or whatever. 

[Finkeren]

Yes, I think everyone was a little disappointed that there isn't a "story" to follow.

 

As bad as that is, I need to get off these forums so I can binge fly the campaign all weekend. Maybe pop out on MP or whatever.

I feel the same way. The sim itself is so great that no amount of disappointing framework will keep me from flying.

[pilotpierre]

I have to admit I quite like the fact that depending on your mood, you have a variety of a/c and missions to choose from and they are great missions to boot.

 

I flew for over 3 hours this afternoon and it was gone in a flash.

[Finkeren]

Nothing wrong with the missions as such (in some areas they could use a bit more development, but they'll for sure get that)

 

If it had simply been called an "advanced quick mission generator" instead of a "campaign" I'd have no problem at all.

[Dakpilot]

Nothing wrong with the missions as such (in some areas they could use a bit more development, but they'll for sure get that)

 

If it had simply been called an "advanced quick mission generator" instead of a "campaign" I'd have no problem at all.

 

Funny but when they announced the early plan that is what everyone said it sounded like! (AQMG) and bitched a little...they (Devs) should have said yes that is what it is and left it at that, lot of people equate Campaign with Career and expectations are wrong. They always said they would not do a RoF style campaign because of the huge amount of research/time involved and the fact that hardly anyone used it...and was a big expensive waste of money and recourses .Most players just went to 3rd party campaigns as soon as they were released.

Original IL-2 has proved that 3rd party enthusiasts  will ALWAYS make a better more historical involving experience as numerous threads here show.

The underlying tech of the AQMG, and it is improving quickly, can be used to make better campaigns than were possible in IL-2

But the easy access simple "campaign mode"will still be there as an excellent introduction to those new to the genre

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Finkeren]

I don't equate "career" with "campaign", to me those are completely different entities.

 

A "career" is where you role play a single pilot in a chronological set of pre rendered missions (static or dynamically generated ) that span his (her) career and earn a kill score, promotions and awards until the pilot is either killed, captured or has reached the end of the period covered by the career (often the end of the war) A career might have some dynamic elements like a squad roster but generally don't give the player the opportunity to control events on a larger scale or affect the outcome of battles/wars (there are exceptions to this)

 

A "campaign" on the other hand places the player with more of an overhead view of a single battle, operation or series of operations, and like the career it progresses chronologically. The player is not tied to a specific pilot or squad but normally only represents one side of the battle. The player is given more freedom in terms of selecting or creating missions to fly and can often control several squads at once, even ground troops or production facilities. The mission results and losses have a direct impact on the tactical and strategic situation within the campaign and often there is even the posibility to determine (and thus reverse) the outcome of the battle, and even the war.

 

What we have in BoS (despite the qualities of th AQMG) is neither of those things.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Finkeren

[Dakpilot]

I don't equate "career" with "campaign", to me those are completely different entities.

 

 

What we have in BoS (despite the qualities of th AQMG) is neither of those things.

 

Totally agree, what we have has been marketed/presented very badly

 

Cheers Dakpilot