Campaign done, some thoughts about it.

[Zettman]

S!

 

It over! After watching the last video scene some weight was falling from my shoulders. 18 hours 82 sorties (you do the math how often I failed).

 

 

The campaign started very easy, just flying around. It might be helpful for new players. In my opinion it would be better to put these missions in a small Tutorial campaign and leave them out of the main campaign. It also doesn't feel right if you want to play Germans that you still have to fly with the Russians for 3 missions (if I remember correctly).

 

The missions itself are standard rinse and repeat missions, but that is not really the problem. Having to fly these standard mission layouts simulates the daily combat situations. It would be nice to have every 4 standard mission one special mission with some interesting objective and or a mission based on a real operations that happened at that time, to give the player something he haven't seen until this point in the campaign. Otherwise the first part of the campaign wouldn't be any different from the last part, except for the changing frontline.

 

Another problem is that you are a nameless pilot in a nameless squadron with nameless wingmen. Here is something missing, promotions and development in the squadron/unit. With this come also real medals. The thought up medals are something I don't like, it feels to much like some Steam achievements 'you have played for 10 minutes! Congratulation!'. Some people might like them and I wouldn't die if the stay in the game, but having just a few real medals would help the immersion.

 

While doing the campaign I was flying the planes only as long until I had all updates with them, after that I switched to another plane. So it took me about 18h and 82 sorties to unlock nearly all Germans upgrades and skins. Which is okay in my opinion. Having the upgrades and skins being unlocked by exp is okay, another option would be that you get the gunpods upgrade in your first bomber interception with the fighter you fly and can keep it (use it in other mission types) if you managed to end the bomber interception successfully. Same for bombs, they are unlocked for all ground attack missions but locked for other types of missions.

Also there are still some bugs with upgrades not getting unlocked after reaching the designated number of exp. The 2500kg bomb for the Heinkel wasn't unlocked for me.

 

 

The enemy AI is seldom a problem, intercepting bombers I often ignore them. My wingmen normally keep them busy until I damaged or shot down two bombers and I am already heading home. Even in missions where I was sitting in my Heinkel I rarely got shot down by them. I was slightly damaged several times through. For the missions in bombers I would keep the AI as it is, that way it is not to frustrating for the pilots to repeatedly got shot down after a successful bombrun.

The friendly AI is strong. I sometimes have the feeling they will slaughter everything they find, but sometimes they can be quite funny and helpless. In the picture below you can see my 3 wingmen ramming each other while going for an enemy bomber formation. Since I haven't flow full missions with the latest changes I don't know if this problem still exist, but the AI often ran me over during takeoff, which was quite annoying sometimes.

 

 

One thing that is great is the active battle field. Groundforces are fighting every were and you often fined friendly squadrons fighting other enemies that are not part of your mission. I once had an enemy group of IL2 escorted by fighters hitting my home airfield as I returned from a ground attack mission myself. I was lucky that another squadron of friendlies was defending the airfield, which allowed me to land while some IL2 blew up parking planes. On another mission where I had to intercept some bombers, I found a returning formations of IL2 half way from my home airfield, luckily for me I still had allot of ammunition.  These interesting non scripted events during the standard missions were always fun. You really had the feeling that there were happening alot of things during your flyout.

 

While playing the campaign it was obviously that there are still a lot things missing. At the moment it really is just a number of standard missions with no connection to each other. Also the player has no impact on the campaign. I remember playing IL2 Forgotten Battles/Pacific and being able to change history (by giving myself unlimited bombs and destroying every ship in Pearl Harbor). I doesn't have to be the extreme of being able to rewrite history, but one should be able to feel some effects if one did very good or very bad in a lot of missions. Like running out of Bf 109 G-2s and having to 'downgrade' to F-4s after a failed bomber interception.

 

All in all it was still fun to play some single player and unlocking the upgrades for multiplayer was faster than I expected. Just for the reference, I'm quite young (24) and I was playing War Thunder before, so having to unlock stuff was a given for me before. So other people may see this different.

 

One last question, how can I resize the images (with forum code)? Forum did it automatically. 

 

Zettman

Edited October 12, 2014 by Zettman

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Great, thanks for sharing.

 

Here's the thing, I can see that even after completion of all chapters, that only 6 of the 100 skins are unlocked (or the counters are wrong) and 4 our of 10 planes with no unlocks.  So how do you get the balance of the unlocks?  Can you continue to fly the chapters for more xp?

 

82 sorties (18 hours), holy crap, that ought to make all the mp players day and you still don't have everything unlocked.

[chris455]

Great post, worth the read. Thanks.

[FlatSpinMan]

Well done.  Thanks for the write up, too.

I was glad to hear you found this:

 

"One thing that is great is the active battle field. Groundforces are fighting every were and you often fined friendly squadrons fighting other enemies that are not part of your mission. I once had an enemy group of IL2 escorted by fighters hitting my home airfield as I returned from a ground attack mission myself. I was lucky that another squadron of friendlies was defending the airfield, which allowed me to land while some IL2 blew up parking planes. On another mission where I had to intercept some bombers, I found a returning formations of IL2 half way from my home airfield, luckily for me I still had allot of ammunition.  These interesting non scripted events during the standard missions were always fun. You really had the feeling that there were happening alot of things during your flyout."

 

 

I've only done a handful of missions but have thought there was a reasonable amount of other activity going on. I would really like to see more things on the ground around the target areas though, and I would LOVE it if it looked a bit more organic - you know, trucks parked at different angles, boxes and crates strewn about.  But I'll play whatever we get.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 The activity is triggered around your route. Today cut some and was greeted by a wasteland without a single soul. Only near the "action point" and some distance before and after it there is something going on. But all conveniently along the flight path triggered by your presence so you can engage for those extra points. It works and saves resources though. Otherwise the campaign is Mr. Nobody in a Whatever Squadron with Faceless Ones as wingmen  So far 9 missions not succesfull. Died once, bailed out a few and ditched a few.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

[mbv]

Wow - only 5 missions completed successfully out of 82 !? Is that correct ? How did you build up the XP to unlock if the missions didn't end successfully ?

[Trinkof]

basicaly if you fly in expert mod / long mission, a mission will take around 30 minutes, 15 if you accelerate speed while in transit between way point. If succesful mission will award you 250 xp. Most of the plane have an XP bar of 1800 xp.

Wich make 7 succesful mission to totaly unlock a plane, wich make 2 or 3 hours of playing for each plane, wich make 20-30 hours to unlock everything... considering you never fail ...

IF you only want some basic tools for your plane, like bombs ... you can divide this time by 3 to have almost every uselfull and common field modification.

To be noted, I think in nomral mode it is much longer to do it.

[Zettman]

Great, thanks for sharing.

 

Here's the thing, I can see that even after completion of all chapters, that only 6 of the 100 skins are unlocked (or the counters are wrong) and 4 our of 10 planes with no unlocks.  So how do you get the balance of the unlocks?  Can you continue to fly the chapters for more xp?

 

82 sorties (18 hours), holy crap, that ought to make all the mp players day and you still don't have everything unlocked.

 

You can continue to fly all chapters and get all the skins and unlocks. Between what counters for skins are you talking about?

 

 

Wow - only 5 missions completed successfully out of 82 !? Is that correct ? How did you build up the XP to unlock if the missions didn't end successfully ?

 

Counter is not working. I think it only counts the tutorial missions.

 

Zettman

[SCG_Neun]

Thanks for sharing Zettman.  

[Georgio]

I've only had chance to fly a few of the campaign missions so far? What I have seen I like; very immersive and engaging, though I found the enemy ai way too easy.

 

A suggestion would be to have the enemy ai have dynamic difficulty i.e. first mission and you slaughter everything with ease then the next mission and the ai is considerably harder.

[Imur6]

Well said. Actually, Sometimes I feel "Is this game worthy to 100$?  indeed?"  

[IIN8II]

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Great post.

[Trinkof]

I've only had chance to fly a few of the campaign missions so far? What I have seen I like; very immersive and engaging, though I found the enemy ai way too easy.

 

A suggestion would be to have the enemy ai have dynamic difficulty i.e. first mission and you slaughter everything with ease then the next mission and the ai is considerably harder.

After pilot. level 8-10, AI, flak, and number of enemies becomes much more challenging.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

You can continue to fly all chapters and get all the skins and unlocks. Between what counters for skins are you talking about?

 

On the chapter summary, under the aircraft icons, there are green teardrop icons with planes in them.  I had assumed that these represented skin unlocks.  At this point, I have no idea what they represent.

[SYN_Ricky]

On the chapter summary, under the aircraft icons, there are green teardrop icons with planes in them.  I had assumed that these represented skin unlocks.  At this point, I have no idea what they represent.

 

As I understand they represent plane unlocks, but as founders we have already all planes unlocked by default so it doesn't matter for us.

[Zettman]

On the chapter summary, under the aircraft icons, there are green teardrop icons with planes in them.  I had assumed that these represented skin unlocks.  At this point, I have no idea what they represent.

 

S!

 

They are planes that can be unlock. The standard version should not have the IL2, Stuka, Bf 109-G2, Yak-1, He 111 and Pe-2 unlocked. You will just have the Lagg and the Bf 109 F4 first. By playing the Bf 109 F4 and getting exp you will unlock the Stuka and Bf 109 G2. While Playing the Stuka you will unlock the He 111 eventually. Same goes for the Lagg that will unlock the IL2 and Yak-1 while getting exp. And the IL2 will allow you to unlock the Pe-2.

 

Skins are shown in the He 111 picture. There are two kinds of Symbols, one for skins (spray gun symbol) and one for upgrades (gear symbol).

 

Edit: Ricky was faster

 

Zettman

Edited October 13, 2014 by Zettman

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Thanks for the write-up!

[[KWN]T-oddball]

Well said. Actually, Sometimes I feel "Is this game worthy to 100$?  indeed?"  

 after seeing the wallet flogging they are doing over at WT , I think ill stay here

 

War Thunder - Ultra Advanced Pack $79.99 <<<< :o: :o:

 

This Advanced Pack includes:

 

• Five airplanes: Fw.190D-13, Typhoon Mk.IB, XP-38G, A6M5 Ko and Pe-2-205.
• Two single player campaigns: USA Pacific Campaign (1941-1943), Japanese Pacific Campaign (1941-1943) (including all the gifts)
• Premium account for 60 days.
• 10000 Golden Eagles.

 

Nice write up Zett, thnx

Edited October 13, 2014 by T-oddball

[senseispcc]

I have finished yesterday "days before the counteroffensive" and I hope this week end to continue. It is nice even if not perfect and I find the game easier than in normal mode!

 

Did anyone have the same experience?!

 

 

A great game in preparation!  

Edited October 13, 2014 by senseispcc

[Trooper117]

Good to hear that you have finished the campaign, well done.

I should be finished this week sometime at my present mission rate.

[39bn_pavig]

I haven't had the time to get too far into the campaign but I agree that the missions are more interesting than they look at first. I've had a few more interesting flights. One in particular flying IL2s to bomb a supply line under thick cloud... There was lots of AAA so we flew above cloud cover, but in enemy territory spotted a flight of HE111 with lots of escort returning from a mission, and bumbling on an intercept course with my flight. We dropped below cloud cover and cruised directly underneath their vector. I had to order my escorts to stay tight to stop them going agro while we slipped underneath. The rest of the mission was similarly eventful.

 

So there is still work to do, but the campaign missions are certainly of a different class to QMB, and already feeling quite lively. Many that I've failed have been due to getting distracted by targets of opportunity, or through events outside the "action point". Quite fun.

[SeriousFox]

I think campaign is OK, not too much impressive. Right now campaign looks and feels fairly basic(it's a beta I know).

 

It would be great if they made war field more alive(more planes, tanks, vehicles), with a custom option for non-hardcore users like me.

 

I like to fly SP mission with external view and map labels but no 3d labels, right now seems like there's no option for that.

 

Hope it improves before the game releases. 

Edited October 14, 2014 by SeriousFox

[FlatSpinMan]

I'd like some more options for that, too.

[Thunder7]

Great posts everyone.  I believe the inclusion of real medals, awards and promotions would create a more realistic and immersive atmosphere to the campaign.  Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

[Comes]

Very good idea. Not much to change, but a very diffrent feeling for the player.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Wondering if anyone else feels like me? 

 

I am a fighter pilot at heart.  Never enjoyed the bombers much but, the fighter missions in the campaign are so boring though.  It's not fun to fight the Ai you know, and it takes forever to climb up to 6k.  I find the ground attack missions to be very enjoyable.  Lots of things going on down there, and it's all ways a nice challenge to bomb or strafe things.  You even get into some dogfights sometimes too.  The boring intercept missions and fun ground attack mission has lead me to throw on bombs to my fighters and use them as mud movers.  No matter what plane, I find it's more fun to do the ground attack missions, rather than follow some slow *** bombers around, or climb to 6k.  Don't know what they can do to make the fighter type missions better.  After all we are going against AI. 

[KoN_]

So no real missions that were flown in the war .!!!! , so no history for the new pilots or the old  , and no real squadron ranks and medals ...!!!! just point scoring ....and unlocks ..!!!!

 

Ive just flown an online campaign with 62 human pilots this weekend with CAP , bomber formations,  ground attack , and dogfights ... you cant beat that .

 

will

 

BOS ..................get to that stage ..??     ................the points and unlocks and silly star-tek    badges  has put me off .

Edited October 21, 2014 by II/JG77_Con

[KodiakJac]

Great posts everyone.  I believe the inclusion of real medals, awards and promotions would create a more realistic and immersive atmosphere to the campaign.  Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

+1

 

I like the SP Campaign, I just don't like the unlocks as the story line (to the point I'm not playing it anymore). But if they replaced the technology and skins with promotions and medals and let me create pilots with a name and moved them through time so it wouldn't seem like groundhog's day and never mentioned XP points the SP Campaign would be great!

[FlatSpinMan]

No specific historical missions as yet. In the future the FMB will be out, so someone will probably make some.

However, I'm sure at Stalingrad there were grind attacks on trains and tricks, intercepts on bombers, etc. BoS has these.

For me that allows me to get a taste of the battle.

 

There are unlocks but they happen after you finish a mission. Why should that detract from the experience in mission?

 

It's a computer game you're playing at your house. A suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite, otherwise you wouldn't play it as you had to use a mouse to launch the game, or you have a swiveling chair so it's not realistic.

 

I know that's taking things to an extreme but I don't see much difference in principle.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

So no real missions that were flown in the war .!!!! , so no history for the new pilots or the old  , and no real squadron ranks and medals ...!!!! just point scoring ....and unlocks ..!!!!

 

Ive just flown an online campaign with 62 human pilots this weekend with CAP , bomber formations,  ground attack , and dogfights ... you cant beat that .

 

will

 

BOS ..................get to that stage ..??     ................the points and unlocks and silly star-tek    badges  has put me off .

 

So.. this campaign you mention, is it from the vanilla version of a game?  Also, you can't really compare online with offline campaigns.  Unfair to say BoS hasn't got all that stuff

[KodiakJac]

A suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite,...

C'mon FlatSpinMan, you know better than that. A great book, or a great movie, or a great game draws you in. Its the story in the case of all three that suspends your disbelief. You don't have to "get suspended" ahead of time. And if the story doesn't hold your interest you walk away from all three. With role playing you get invested in your character and it ties the story together from one mission to the next. Its hard to get suspended by or invested in XP.

[No601_Swallow]

C'mon FlatSpinMan, you know better than that. A great book, or a great movie, or a great game draws you in. Its the story in the case of all three that suspends your disbelief. You don't have to "get suspended" ahead of time. And if the story doesn't hold your interest you walk away from all three. With role playing you get invested in your character and it ties the story together from one mission to the next. Its hard to get suspended by or invested in XP.

 

Yes, but it's a pact between the author and the audience, isn't it? Anyone can sit in a huff with his arms folded in a cinema or theatre (or while reading a book) and just "refuse" to get drawn in. There has to be a willingness to participate. Otherwise why are you in that cinema or theatre, or holding that book or double-clicking on that icon? So the suspension of disbelief is a collaboration.

 

It's so easy to pick holes in things, after all as someone has said, there's usually room for more beer. But to refer to the campaign badges as "star trek" or "rubbish", for example, as other posters have, seems willfully to refuse to enter into the game. In which case, why play it in the first place? (I suppose.)  All of which makes a lot of the cheap and petty criticisms on this forum seem a bit sad and self-defeating.

 

But to get back to the original point, I'm enjoying the campaign. It's challenging and fun for me.

Edited October 21, 2014 by No601_Swallow

[KodiakJac]

Yes, but it's a pact between the author and the audience, isn't it? Anyone can sit in a huff with his arms folded in a cinema or theatre (or while reading a book) and just "refuse" to get drawn in. There has to be a willingness to participate. Otherwise why are you in that cinema or theatre, or holding that book or double-clicking on that icon? So the suspension of disbelief is a collaboration.

 

 

Folks who have spent $50 to $100 and spent tens if not hundreds of hours playing BoS are well past refusing to get drawn in.  In fact, they are trying desperately to get drawn in...thus all the angst.  A good author can grab you.  How many times have you been flicking thru the channels on the television and suddenly realised you have been watching something for the past 45 minutes that you hadn't planned on watching?  Great author/directing/acting...bottomline, great story.  What I'm hearing over and over again here is "get happy" which defies logic in any form of entertainment.  In regards to entertainment people don't accept the soggy potato chip.  That only works for basic human needs.  We don't have just one channel on the tele.

 

A role playing campaign would let people write their own story and relieve the devs from trying to figure out all their different customers' trigger for immersion.  They've already done a great job with the core game, but using the one size fits all approach for the campaign just won't work.  And it could be so easily remedied.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Bucksnort

[unreasonable]

The problem is what happens after the "unlocks" have finished?

 

I find these to be positively detrimental to the feeling of suspension of belief previously mentioned. Even someone who finds them hugely motivating is going to find themselves having to face the same question: why fly it again?

 

If the campaign started you as a named pilot, identification follows much more easily. Death becomes meaningful once you have invested time in a career. But the challenge to start again and do better than before never goes away. RoFs SP career, for instance, has almost infinite replayability.

 

The design of the SP career in BoS seems designed to motivate people who have no real interest in WW2 aviation, while actively getting in the way of people who wish to get the feel of being a WW2 pilot. As I understand it, they are not even going to allow people to use user made skins in the SP campaign.

 

Sneering at those who have pointed out the defects of the product as it stands seems to me cheap and petty, sad and self-defeating indeed.

[Trooper117]

It's all so simple... The old IL2 'had' the formula.
It enthralled everyone, on and offline, in short, it worked!
We now have 'The Successor' to IL2, who claims 'The Legend Returns'... Now, that is a huge claim to live up to!

I've almost completed the campaign, in truth it's getting better, but it in no way lives up to a legendary status.

Before anyone shouts 'even the original had problems initially'  I know, I purchased everything they put out, but the teams who are producing the latest 'IL2' have that lineage, and they already know what the previous winning formula was... yet we now have this, campaign system...

 

Some of my missions in the campaign have been good, but do I feel connected to the unit, personnel and aircraft I'm flying? Not at all I'm afraid to say

 

Still, not to put too much of a damper on the OP's achievements... Well done on completion, I'm not far behind you, although I've been side tracked by another recent purchase that has taken up my flying time of late... I intend to come back and finish my campaign shortly

[BraveSirRobin]

The problem is what happens after the "unlocks" have finished?

 

The same thing that happens with any game once you've reached the end of the battle/war/season/whatever.  You either try it again with settings that make it more of a challenge, or you move on to something else.  That's why I prefer MP.  It's always a challenge, and there is always someone better than you.

[KoN_]

So.. this campaign you mention, is it from the vanilla version of a game?  Also, you can't really compare online with offline campaigns.  Unfair to say BoS hasn't got all that stuff

 

I am looking at the bigger picture here not slating Bos at all , im asking for real life missions , like it should be , a pilot career , with proper medals and a rank structure , don't forget people have paid up front for a Flight Sim . not a war-thunder  take.

and im not complaining ...

Edited October 22, 2014 by II/JG77_Con

[Thunder7]

The inclusion of realistic medals, promotion and career mode can only further enhance BoS.  I doubt very much that there are that many people playing BoS who aren't interested in the historical aspects and a bit of realism.  The actual gameplay and sim side of life is excellent and a realistic career mode will make BoS truly outstanding.  In my opinion something along the lines of a WoFF or RoF career mode would be welcome addition.    

[RydnDirty]

I absolutely love multiplayer. From the moment I start  my engine and take off  till the moment I land, I never know what to expect. I could get strafed on the field or I could fly the whole mission without seeing a thing. That unpredictable danger makes it interesting the whole time. Some times I take off and fly for 30 min to high altitude and have seen nothing and then suddenly an enemy appears and as I see him he sees me. My heart starts to race as we are both circling each other  as the fight begins. I know there is a real person looking back at me from that cockpit and he wants to kill me before I kill him. It's like a drug... so exciting and competitive.

 

Begin force fed single player campaign against AI is a big let down. The AI doesn't care if I shoot it down. There is no one in that plane. It's just an algorithme, an imitation. I feel nothing shooting them down 6 in a sorte.  The action point means there is no risk when I am not at the action point. It is just dead boring hitting autopilot and 2x game speed with no risk or reward. 

 

It took him 18 hours to unlock just the german planes. So I have to play 36 hours of some thing I actually don't like just to unlock the multiplayer game I really do love to play.

I really can't see myself doing it honestly. Ill just have to fly online with out the unlocks 

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I absolutely love multiplayer. From the moment I start  my engine and take off  till the moment I land, I never know what to expect. I could get strafed on the field or I could fly the whole mission without seeing a thing. That unpredictable danger makes it interesting the whole time. Some times I take off and fly for 30 min to high altitude and have seen nothing and then suddenly an enemy appears and as I see him he sees me. My heart starts to race as we are both circling each other  as the fight begins. I know there is a real person looking back at me from that cockpit and he wants to kill me before I kill him. It's like a drug... so exciting and competitive.

 

Begin force fed single player campaign against AI is a big let down. The AI doesn't care if I shoot it down. There is no one in that plane. It's just an algorithme, an imitation. I feel nothing shooting them down 6 in a sorte.  The action point means there is no risk when I am not at the action point. It is just dead boring hitting autopilot and 2x game speed with no risk or reward. 

 

It took him 18 hours to unlock just the german planes. So I have to play 36 hours of some thing I actually don't like just to unlock the multiplayer game I really do love to play.

I really can't see myself doing it honestly. Ill just have to fly online with out the unlocks 

Me too. I am trying the SP side of things but I just don't have that kind of time. I will unlock only what I need for MP for the planes I fly. I could have this game 10 years and I doubt I would finish the SP stuff. But I'm trying it!