Is anyone getting anywhere level bombing in the campaign?

[AndyJWest]

Even using 'normal' settings, I'm finding it next to impossible to get anywhere. From a ground start, the rest of the flight won't formate properly - they seem more concerned with horizontal position than with climbing to altitude, and end up wallowing 2000m below, or disappearing entirely. An air start might work - except that it dumps you on the run in to the target, with insufficient time to set the bombsight, line up etc. Assuming that the target can be seen at all. Trying to hit an artillery position from 3000m would be hard enough, if it could be seen in the first place... 

[Finkeren]

The AI really needs some work still to be useful in campaign. I was initially impressed, that it wasn't completely useless and mostly did what it was supposed to. A week in the limitations of the current AI has become really glaring though, and I suspect that's where most of the development work will be in the weeks leading up to launch.

 

As for level bombing, it's been problematic for just about every single WW2 sim ever except those few that were directly focused on it. The problem is a result of the combination of relatively short draw distances (BoS is not bad in this regard but still falls short of what's needed), difficulty of spotting small ground targets on a computer screen with limited resolution and the high flying speed of WW2 aircraft. Level bombing worked like a charm in Rise of Flight because the air speed was usually around 150 km/h at bomb run and altitudes seldom over 3000m. In WW2 speeds were some 3 times higher and altitudes often at least double. That creates a lot of problems for a computer simulation.

[unreasonable]

Getting even fighter AI to get into formation is non trivial from a ground start. But they will do it if you fly straight and level at an economy cruise throttle setting for about 5 minutes either before or after climbing to the desired height.

 

Unfortunately we only have the choice of 4 unusable formations....

 

I have not tried the multi-engines yet, so it is only an idea, but I wonder if you were to ignore the first waypoint and just head in a safe direction at a slow cruise straight and level would the AI catch up? Then you can increase power slowly and allow the flight to climb without pitching the nose up. Then slowly change course towards the target.

 

(Just ignore if you are already trying that....)

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Only found solid success in quick mission on expert when doing level bombing in campaign. You have to be fast setting your rads, mixture, gunners and bombsight though. By the time you've set all of that there's not a lot of wiggle room left for lining up your run.

 

With all of the CTD's happening I found the most success with the above method, good luck up there.

[keeno]

Hi Andy,

 

I'm flying the campaign in "expert" mode and haven't found any problem with my Ai wingmen forming up. I take off, follow the way-points and tell them what formation to fly, ie V formation. Then fly a steady cruise-climb to my desired altitude and within a few mintues they appear in formation.

 

I flew my first HE-111 bombing mission last night as described. All went well except my bombs fell between the 4 artillery emplacments and it counted as a miss! I must have killed or damaged something missing by 10 meters but there you go. You also need to tell your gunners to "fire at will" and at what distance to fire, close, medium or long range.  

 

I'm not sure if my wing men even dropped there bombs as there's no outside views in expert. But we flew on to return safely to base with all bombers returning and landing safely. I think we were attacjed on the way back as I heard my gunners opening up now and then but I just flew on.

 

I fly the full missions as it gives time to set up the bomb run as I want to and also set up the bomb site before I'm looking for the target. Make sure you use "auto level" for flight so you don't have your hands too full.

 

Good luck!

[FlatSpinMan]

 All went well except my bombs fell between the 4 artillery emplacments and it counted as a miss! 

Ha. I love it.

[Zettman]

S!

 

Did mostly short missions so far. My main problem is, that I can't really hit targets on auto, manual does work better but I often miss the target by bombs falling to short or to far left or right of the target. Enemy AI fighters and friendly AI escort working fine. I get damaged by them sometimes, but getting shot down is really rare.

 

Zettman

[Y-29.Silky]

My goodness, I wanted to grind (I hate that word), my Stuka.. I can't get any progress! If your bombs miss your target, you fail whether you make it back or not.

[Finkeren]

My goodness, I wanted to grind (I hate that word), my Stuka.. I can't get any progress! If your bombs miss your target, you fail whether you make it back or not.

 

It sucks, yeah. But at least if you're attacking artillery, you can always shoot up a couple of them to get success.

[Monsteri]

I think it's bovious to devs too that the current campaign does not work for bombers. It's just that it does not guite work for fighters either and because that's what most of the players are flying with, they try to get that working first.

[malcheus]

Try doing an intercept mission while loading rockets on your plane;

Once your wingbots see the enemy, the first thing they do is get rid of their rockets. By fireing them.

As you are the one leading the formation, all of a sudden some 18 rockets wizz past and explode. 

 

So to be honest, the further the "friendly" AI stays away from me, the happier I am.

[unreasonable]

Try doing an intercept mission while loading rockets on your plane;

Once your wingbots see the enemy, the first thing they do is get rid of their rockets. By fireing them.

As you are the one leading the formation, all of a sudden some 18 rockets wizz past and explode. 

 

So to be honest, the further the "friendly" AI stays away from me, the happier I am.

To be fair, the rockets were intended for ground attack not air-air use, so the AI behavior is probably by the book. You are ahead of your time!

[LLv24_Zami]

I flew my first HE-111 bombing mission last night as described. All went well except my bombs fell between the 4 artillery emplacments and it counted as a miss!

 

Yes, I think bomb efficiency against artillery positions is too low at the moment. You have to get direct hit even with 250kg and 500kg bombs.

 

Ground attack is a problem for AI at the moment. I cant get even Stuka to bomb, they just circle around no matter what commands are given. Same with jabo missions, atleast on German side. Havent tried Soviet yet. They just dont attack anything on ground no matter what weapons are carried. Going to try He-111 next and see if they can bomb.

 

In the Developer Diary thread Han said they will investigate AI ground attack problem so maybe they can solve it soon.

[Finkeren]

Not sure the bomb efficiency is too low. The artillery pieces are clearly dug in on three sides and would be pretty resillient to anything but a direct hit. On the other hand low caliber machine guns might be too effective. I've killed several artillery guns with just short bursts of ShKAS fire after exhausting my cannon ammo.

[unreasonable]

Just started flying Lagg3 ground attack missions - out of 5-6 so far, I have seen an AI wingman destroy an artillery piece with a gun attack once. Other than that nothing.

 

I have a feeling that the problem is that the action area has always had a couple of Me 109s hanging around in it, and even when us Laggs have a Yak escort the wingmen dump their bombs and join in the dogfight.

 

A solution would either be to tone down the frequency with which the target has a CAP, or change the AI targeting logic to prioritize ground targets.

Not sure the bomb efficiency is too low. The artillery pieces are clearly dug in on three sides and would be pretty resillient to anything but a direct hit. On the other hand low caliber machine guns might be too effective. I've killed several artillery guns with just short bursts of ShKAS fire after exhausting my cannon ammo.

Agree with this - but then the MGs are too effective against planes as well.

[LLv24_Zami]

Not sure the bomb efficiency is too low. The artillery pieces are clearly dug in on three sides and would be pretty resillient to anything but a direct hit. On the other hand low caliber machine guns might be too effective. I've killed several artillery guns with just short bursts of ShKAS fire after exhausting my cannon ammo.

 

Yes, that could be the case but I just thought that a 500kg bomb just behind artillery position would atleast shake the crew little bit.

I dont know about russian guns but MG17 on Stuka is not too effective strafing artillery positions, atleast for me. Maybe I am too bad shooter

[unreasonable]

Yup it is definitely the presence of enemy fighters... just did another artillery strike in Lagg3s (just a pair this time, first time I have seen that). Couple of 109s at the target, Yak escorts and my wingman all engage while I strafe the guns. After both 109s are down I give the "attack ground units" command again and my wingman obeys, destroying the last artillery piece.

 

Also noticing that the Yaks always seem to beat the 109s - I assume because a simple TnB AI is more suited to a Yak.

[LLv24_Zami]

AI is even worse dogfighter in FW-190. They get shot down every time and dont even fire their weapons.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I am now in bombing missions unlocking the Pe-2. Gave up on bombing from level and just dive bomb the targets