Developer Diary, Part 82

[unreasonable]

On campaign issues: I have posted a bunch of small incremental improvements to formations, AI etc in the "Suggestions to Developers" forum section.

 

Did not want to repeat them all here, so I hope you (devs) are still reading that section.

[von_Greiff]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

 

Appreciate this very much, Han!

People already think it's for granted being so closely involved, cuz' they've paid a few bucks. I think it's great to be able to communicate like this, ey folks, you are talking to the projekt manager and he obviously listens. Guess, it's like on your workplace!

I like it! Whether good or bad.

 

<SA>

v.Greiff

 

@Han: namechange, pleeeaaase!

[DD_bongodriver]

Maybe not that extreme, but you do come out of your seat a little...

 

I know, but Jedders is a little concerned.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Did in-game test. La-5 out-rolls Fw190 in game at all tested speeds.

[Kling]

SP,

 

We have a real aerospace engineer who has built our physics and flight system. He is a professionally trained engineer and a real pilot who flies light sport ultralights and gliders. There is not much private aviation in Russia compared to the U.S. but he is the most qualified real-life flyer on the team. We feel he is very qualified and he is no dummy. He works very hard doing all the things you seem to think we do not do. We gather legitimate sources from archives or other places, comb through the data, measure shapes and coefficients, build the profile, produce a result, tweak and compare again. At some point we need to call it done and move on. We do not spend endless man hours ($$$$) tweaking to please every user. It's impossible. We are never going to match everyone's personal expectations of how each plane should perform. There is a certain level of "subjectiveness" to this topic and sometimes it seems it is more art than science because there is so much anecdotal stories etc. that cloud the facts. Even archival sources differ on numbers so the totally so the completely correct answer is somewhat lost to time. The team tries to stick to the science side of the arguments. However, we strive to get very close and real life pilots tell us quite frequently that our planes fly better than any other combat sim on the market. So we are quite happy with the results we get in most cases and when we feel we screwed up we try to fix.

 

What I see happening here (as with all sims ever released) is a lot of complaints based on anecdotal info and then a big push to match some magical performance number in some data-set somewhere. There is no way to completely reconcile the two. So Han has asked, as Loft and I have asked in the past is that if you have a serious problem with our FMs, prove it to us that we have a gross error. When we release our airplanes we feel the performance matches close enough to the data we have and hopefully gets close to the anecdotal stories we have heard.

 

The community has endless time to spend on these topics, we don't. So if you want to have us change something, show us how wrong we got it. Please don't post random links and quotes. We do not have the time to re-research everything.

 

I've never flown a real WWII in combat, so I have to trust that our engine and team get's it really close to how it was. None of us here have flown a WWII fighter at the edge of the envelope in combat so it is difficult for me to think that any of us have the exact answer. So there will always be some question as to what is correct.

 

Jason

Now THIS is a fair answer! I like this approach!

+1

[SYN_Jedders]

I know, but Jedders is a little concerned.

I have never been the slightest bit concerned about anything written on a game forum, even by me!

[Kling]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

Thx for this Han! This will go a loooooong way towards pleasing many voices! Mine included...

[JG4_Widukind]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

Thank you have listened to us.

 

Look this Video about the FW 190 Cockpit view.

[DD_bongodriver]

And while we are at it maybe the famous 'rubberbanding' issue can be explained/looked in to?

 

The video above is about a piece of laminated glass of incorrect dimensions and not about the 190 cockpit view.

[JG4_Widukind]

do a better exemble bongodriver.

[HR_Tumu]

Hi all,

 

I read all post and I dont see any comment about next point.

 

Plane setup on campaing missions

 

I think the order of screens for configurate plane for a campàign mission can be better, actually suffers one error. especially for jabo and bomber pilots.

 

Actually order:

 

-First in campaign screen you can select , mision settings ( long,short,expert,normal) and type ( intercept, atack, cover.. )

-In same screen you have plane select, you can configure your plane. This its the wrong point, why?

 

When you hit start .... you recibe a detailed brief on a new screen, on this second screen you have details about objective. this its the last screen before start to fly , now you know your objective , now its de time for select better weapons but you no have chance for do it. 

 

 

I think its good for player have the option for configure plane after know all details about objective. Configure plane just before start.

 

 

thx, sorry for my english.

[jaydee]

Thank you have listened to us.

 

Look this Video about the FW 190 Cockpit view.

Lets us all have a Discussion about the FW190 without having it being De-railed by "The  Bar". For Once !

Please !

Edited October 12, 2014 by jaydee

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

S!

 

 Did in-game test. La-5 out-rolls Fw190 in game at all tested speeds.

Hey Flanker, by any chance you recorded the performance. Like in numbers, deg/s or time to complete full aileron roll at certain speeds? 

[SYN_Blackrat]

Hey Flanker, by any chance you recorded the performance. Like in numbers, deg/s or time to complete full aileron roll at certain speeds? 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11585-fw-190-roll-rate/?p=177637

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11585-fw-190-roll-rate/?p=177637

Oh, missed that somehow. Thank you !

[CUJO_1970]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

 

I hope I wasn't the no so great guy

Thanks for looking into this, it's great news.

[rigbyDerekb1948]

Hi all,

 

I read all post and I dont see any comment about next point.

 

Plane setup on campaing missions

 

I think the order of screens for configurate plane for a campàign mission can be better, actually suffers one error. especially for jabo and bomber pilots.

 

Actually order:

 

-First in campaign screen you can select , mision settings ( long,short,expert,normal) and type ( intercept, atack, cover.. )

-In same screen you have plane select, you can configure your plane. This its the wrong point, why?

 

When you hit start .... you recibe a detailed brief on a new screen, on this second screen you have details about objective. this its the last screen before start to fly , now you know your objective , now its de time for select better weapons but you no have chance for do it. 

 

 

I think its good for player have the option for configure plane after know all details about objective. Configure plane just before start.

 

 

thx, sorry for my english.

When you select "OK" after the basic mission setup (before you select the Plane Setup) an arrow appears on the map, showing the route, distance, etc., and a circle showing the "action" area. Inside the circle is a brief description of your target (e.g. train, airfield, convoy, artillery, etc.). This helps a lot for selecting bomb-loadout, or other weapons.  Its quite a neat approach, I think.

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Lets us all have a Discussion about the FW190 without having it being De-railed by "The  Bar". For Once !

Please !

That was a crazy video, I had no idea about that at all. Thanks for that, wow!

[SYN_Blackrat]

When you select "OK" after the basic mission setup (before you select the Plane Setup) an arrow appears on the map, showing the route, distance, etc., and a circle showing the "action" area. Inside the circle is a brief description of your target (e.g. train, airfield, convoy, artillery, etc.). This helps a lot for selecting bomb-loadout, or other weapons.  Its quite a neat approach, I think.

 

Thank you, I never noticed that, obvious now you pointed it out

[ripperjules9393]

'You Have Took Off' ! ?

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

Level 10 Pilot spotted, fire more flak! This is getting more and more hopeless by the day.

Edited October 12, 2014 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[FZG_Merlin]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

Issues which to be re-checked:

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

Wow thank you for this post. That's great news. and I am sorry that you had to deal with a bad dude. Some people do not deserve any listening.

[FZG_Merlin]

Level 10 Pilot spotted, fire more flak! This is getting more and more hopeless by the day.

What do you disagree with, please ?

[StG2_Manfred]

What do you disagree with, please ?

Flak should be hard or less hard, but not depending on a certain pilot skill. Flak on ground cannot know the pilot skill and should fear all planes in the same way. That's what he want to say I guess and I agree. Would like to see curtain fires rather than sniper flak.

[SR-F_Winger]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

THIS statement was what so many people have been wiating for since the release of the FW 190.

I for my part am really happy it finally came! THANKS!!!!!

[FZG_Merlin]

Flak should be hard or less hard, but not depending on a certain pilot skill. Flak on ground cannot know the pilot skill and should fear all planes in the same way. That's what he want to say I guess and I agree. Would like to see curtain fires rather than sniper flak.

OH yeah I understand now. Totally agree with both of you.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Regarding Fw190 FM.

 

At least I've received all necessary compact info on my PM from several great guys and one not so great guy

 

Issues which to be re-checked:

 

1. Roll rate

2. Climb rate

3. Supercharger swithch altitude

4. Negative G value before negative stall

 

I'll respond on every claim of these four after some time.

Now please back to 82nd diary and Campaign issues

Awesome! Thanks a Lot :-)

[Nankeen]

 

 

May be only game-sound in several moments may be more highlighted and final can have a more noticeable fade-out. But it's realy the best

  Thank you for the great advice Han.

=Boomerang=

[Potenz]

And while we are at it maybe the famous 'rubberbanding' issue can be explained/looked in to?

 

The video above is about a piece of laminated glass of incorrect dimensions and not about the 190 cockpit view.

but it gives you an ideo on how is to see through a thick piece of glass 

[DD_bongodriver]

but it gives you an ideo on how is to see through a thick piece of glass 

 

I already know, and can say that refraction is more insignificant than that video would have us believe, also having played DCS in the Oculus rift and seen the 190 windscreen in a real sense of presence the apparent lack of visibility from the 'bar' is an utter myth, the visibility is superb, making an artificial compromise to satisfy a lust for a hypothetical idea is not worth the effort.

[Han]

  Thank you for the great advice Han.

=Boomerang=

 

 

Oh my... Now it's just... HEAVENLY...

[Han]

Thank you have listened to us.

 

Look this Video about the FW 190 Cockpit view.

 

Beleive me - I'm know very good how it should be.

 

For now we have best possible compromise while we have no refraction real-time FPS-safe render methods.

 

So now you may calm - nothing here will be changed in closest year or two or more. Reason - there is no any better solution (in limits of current technologies) than we have now in game.

[StG2_Manfred]

+1

 

Although I would like to see changes, I appreciate your openness. And yes it's a compromise one can live with.

[JG4_Widukind]

Thank you!
Now that's an answer as I wish them to me!

[Livai]

 

Beleive me - I'm know very good how it should be.

 

Since we talking still about the Fw-190

I believe you that you known and try how it should be you did some magic with Fw-190 Cockpit to get realistic visibility of the targets and realistic visibility of the gauges 100% realistic. Even it was near unplayable and there was no solution how to get both things 100% realistic. You and your team made it!

 

I still wonder that this was my hard to believe?

 

Thank you and your team for this hard work to made this both things 100% realistic.

 

For now we have best possible compromise while we have no refraction real-time FPS-safe render methods.

So now you may calm - nothing here will be changed in closest year or two or more. Reason - there is no any better solution (in limits of current technologies) than we have now in game.

Han, its is possible to limit SSAO for Cockpits only this would give a nice performance boost if SSAO is only used for Cockpits to made them more realistic?

Reason - why not?

 

 

 

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

selling a premium plane for 20 bucks after release, which is broken like hell, isn't the best piece of business, one would say..

you do know its a           BETA!

[Reflected]

Today I finally had the chance to try the new campaign mode. Well, my expectations were high but not unrealistic, I was well aware of what the devs are capable of (RoF). This campaign is the absolute opposite of what I'm looking for in a campaign mode, and is a major disappointment. Same mission patterns, no randomness, having to proceed to the exit point to proceed, ahh...I'm hoping Pat Wilson can make an app in BoS like in RoF. SP players want immersion, at least I do. This is anything but... I'm quite disappointed so far.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

That's great news about the briefings. FlatSpinMan and Feathered's examples are excellent!

 

Here's the in game camera perspective of a sortie within the campaign. This mission, I needed to escort (X3) PE-2's.

I decided to leave that part out, and show when the action began engaging a Me 109. Ever had one of those day's where you couldn't hit the side of a Barn? Well, this is my example

Anyhow, enjoy the brief acrobats and fireworks.

 

great video, the music was  perfect, watching that lag slice and slide through the air put a big smile on my face, that's exactly the way a plane fly's. So don't know where these nay Sayers don't see it or maybe they want rail cars?

[Leaf]

So don't know where these nay Sayers don't see it or maybe they want rail cars?

 

Maybe they're looking for this?

[JG4_Sputnik]

Beleive me - I'm know very good how it should be.

 

For now we have best possible compromise while we have no refraction real-time FPS-safe render methods.

 

So now you may calm - nothing here will be changed in closest year or two or more. Reason - there is no any better solution (in limits of current technologies) than we have now in game.

Why then did you re-make the Fw190 cockpit with thinner glass after the comunity complained abouth its hughe thickness in the first release? Its a serious question, I wondered about that because Ive never seen so thick glass from inside a cockpit and then the BoS G2 and Fw gets released and -boom- theres that huge thick armored glass in front of you.

 

It let many people a bit suspicious about the quality controll and just after the comunity provided the data and pics the changes on your side had been made. And now you say you know exactely how the cockpit should be. So why release the "wrong" cockpit in the first place?

 

Again, no offense, just really curious about this. Almost every other stuff in the game are is superb