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Developer Diary, Part 82


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Posted

 It takes how long to build a working feature in a game? It depends on how many people you put on the project.

 

 

That is complete off topic from me (and my comment is not related to the rest of your post), but I'll comment it anyway  :)

There is a really good book by Frederick Brooks "The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering".

It is easy to read even for non-IT guys (I think so, but I'm IT-guy, thus my vision of this book may be a bit distorted). Here is some kind of synopsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

In brief, you're wrong in assumption that addition of more people always ends in more faster development.
There're other factors, which should be considered.
  • Upvote 3
Posted

 

 

 

That is complete off topic from me (and my comment is not related to the rest of your post), but I'll comment it anyway  :)

There is a really good book by Frederick Brooks "The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering".

It is easy to read even for non-IT guys (I think so, but I'm IT-guy, thus my vision of this book may be a bit distorted). Here is some kind of synopsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

In brief, you're wrong in assumption that addition of more people always ends in more faster development.
There're other factors, which should be considered.

 

 

 

He is correct, I work in the Aerospace industry and too many hands in the cookie jar is always bad. Everyone always wants their pet project in place which leads to endless bickering which adds more time to the project and more frustration.

VBF-12_Stick-95
Posted

CTD on completion of sp campaign mission.

Posted

still no FW190 FM update :(

Not sure you will ever see one mate. The devs have never said that they confirm the issue with Fw190 and therefor ghe situation is like with ROF we asked for some FM updates for some extremely needed FM revisions. This is 2 years ago and nothings but silence. Its like the FM threads were invisible to the devs.

Anyway it was the reason I stoped playing ROF.

Imagine a situation where a Hurricane would catch the Fw190 in a dive and also be faster than the Fw190 in level flight. Well this is the situation in ROF (Sopwith Pup vs Albatros DII-DVa). So its a fairly major issue but nothing was done. Therefor I doubt that you will see any FM revisons with BOS.

 

So better get used to the situation now and get very good with the FMs you have!

 

Cheers

II/JG17_HerrMurf
Posted

Kling,

 

I'm sorry about ROF but there have already been several FM revisions. Clearly they are not correct yet in BOS either but I expect there will be more fixes......................but probably not until after release. I have no problems talking about the deficiencies in this game, there are many, but the pessimism around here is occasionally suffocating.

Posted

Kling,

 

I'm sorry about ROF but there have already been several FM revisions. Clearly they are not correct yet in BOS either but I expect there will be more fixes......................but probably not until after release. I have no problems talking about the deficiencies in this game, there are many, but the pessimism around here is occasionally suffocating.

Im not sure a serious game developer should be releasing a flight simulator with faulty FMs. That should somehow be prio nr1 and not something that has to wait till after release... I mean even org. il2 had faulty FMs BUT they did not have early access players who could highlight the issues before the release.. As matter of fact, no ww2 flight sim before BOS did to my knowledge...?

Posted

He is correct, I work in the Aerospace industry and too many hands in the cookie jar is always bad. Everyone always wants their pet project in place which leads to endless bickering which adds more time to the project and more frustration.

 

I work in the Aerospace industry too and I couldn't agree more.

Posted

Im not sure a serious game developer should be releasing a flight simulator with faulty FMs. That should somehow be prio nr1 and not something that has to wait till after release... I mean even org. il2 had faulty FMs BUT they did not have early access players who could highlight the issues before the release.. As matter of fact, no ww2 flight sim before BOS did to my knowledge...?

 

Exactly this, especially when you are selling the 190 for $20. How can you expect people to buy the 190 when it has one of the most inaccurate FMs in game?

 

Just a word from the developers stating that they are aware of the issue and are planning something would suffice. But once again we are given complete silence on this issue with mentions of a few new carrots to distract us.

Posted

I can't wait for compressibility to be accurately modeled in, esp since the German fighters had a higher critical mach number to Russian planes, as well as the adjustable stab :)

 

 

Statements like this alongside unlocks, XP, and  YOU TOOK OFF messages somehow don't belong together anywhere.  :unsure:

 

Mick.  :)

Posted (edited)

I tried and it's really really hard  to contain myself..  campaign is brainless and I'm fixating to the end of the mission red circle i do not care even of I killed a "Bot"  I don't want to kill "Bots"  Grrrr!  trim system is ridiculous, FM is a hard to not think about a fix..  I flew many Yaks and I never glided like they do here..~!  The aircraft (s) have no wind resistance some how, Flaps physics are not fixed..  Landing those plane feels like landing some hard stiff wood craft There are so much to correct and somehow  we only think about those bots and red end missions.. I keep faith for a last good decision ..

 

(Ai's are have no common senses )

Edited by GOZR
  • Upvote 2
Anw.StG2_Tyke
Posted

We're considering more transport missions as well, but in a more long term perspective. Ah, imagine flying a Ju-52 with a platoon of airborns on board and trying to drop them above a strategically important object. That'd be good I think.

3D model is way less complicated than an FM, but anything can happen. Just in case, let's keep expectations not that high on this matter.

I have to bring the reality back, sorry Zak. But the Germans never had any airborne-drops over Stalingrad or everywhere after 1940/1941 simply because the losses were to high. So I hope it won't be possible. :) But Supportmissions would be great, I mean flying this beautiuful Plane with new Troops into the town and again flying out, woah that would be a thrill.

  • Upvote 1
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Taleks is right. The amount of people does not matter, but their level of skill. A few very talented can achieve more than a gaggle of less talented. At least that is what I see in my work with military jets and their systems. With a good group we achieve a lot more than with a lot of new guys. Of course a generalisation, all are professionals in the work but just various degrees of experience behind them.

 

 As of the update. Friendly fire can come from a ricochet as well, got that last night before update while strafing an AAA emplacement. Friendly plane was hit by ricochet! Talk about odds there, but can happen :)  I do not feel that the progressively aggressive AAA is a good thing. Too much like Oblivion where AI was tougher the better you got. AAA is something you do not take lightly and should not be related to your own progress through a rank. AAA crew does not know if you are a rookie or a seasoned veteran. You are just a target to them either way. AAA should get more dangerous if it has concentrations of it. A single gun can be easily avoided, but a battery of guns is a force to reckon with. Add to that the threat levels depending on altitude. Rifle calibre guns are effective to a few hundred meters maximum, 20mm and above calibre out to 1000-3500m and large 70-88mm out to several kilometers. Effective range does not mean they accurately hit out to that range. The odds of hitting decrease with range and without radar guidance large calibre is resorted to barrages of fire, not following a single fighter for example. Add to the mix gun traverse speeds and all that and the cocktail can be pretty complicated. AAA should never be a laser guided thing effective out to it's maximum range, but still a danger you can not omit when getting closer.

 

 Have a nice weekend all.

Posted (edited)

I am encouraged that the Devs are looking for more collaboration with the community.  They are trying to build a solid foundation for this release aimed at bringing in the newer fans of WWII aviation.  This is the younger 20 something that will invest in hardware for flightsim and space combat titles like Elite and Star Citizen.  The future looks bright and timing may be right as VR is also going to drive an audience towards cockpit based sim titles like BOS and DCS.  I am very optimistic that this title will continue to mature into a platform that will meet the needs of the larger flightsim community.

 

S~

Edited by Toxin1
  • 1CGS
Posted

Don't forget to install a 13mm mg on those junkers!!

 

There aren't any 13 mm guns for the Ju 87.

Posted

There aren't any 13 mm guns for the Ju 87.

He's talking about the Ju 52!

Posted
  • AI planes will know how to distribute ground targets between each others

 

Just flew Fw-190 jabo mission, as soon as we arrived target area which was an airfield, AI planes in my wing dropped their bombs to the snow and started chasing Yak cap. We had Bf-109 escorts. They wont engage ground targets even ordered to do so. They wont shoot planes either even on intercept mission.

Posted

I am getting nailed by rear gunners even from slashing attacks. It would help if my flight would let a hand instead of bumbling off on their own agenda.

1./JG42Nephris
Posted

Thats imo the point.

I dare to doubt that masses of buyers will follow on release day.

I suppoese the masses already bought.

Posted

That's great news about the briefings. FlatSpinMan and Feathered's examples are excellent!

 

Here's the in game camera perspective of a sortie within the campaign. This mission, I needed to escort (X3) PE-2's.

I decided to leave that part out, and show when the action began engaging a Me 109. Ever had one of those day's where you couldn't hit the side of a Barn? Well, this is my example :P

Anyhow, enjoy the brief acrobats and fireworks.

 

Thanks very much for this very nice musical sky ballet video. I really enjoyed it.

 

There was a time where you would have some CGI animation made as introduction to the game and then some CGI animation after each major chapter or event during the game.

Then you could compare how awful the in game graphic quality was compared to the CGI (very often ray traced) images.

 

Now we are reaching a point where this gap between those cinematic images and the dynamic game images is nearly nil for in flight combat. Smoke, fire, reflections, shading, texture, shadows (internal external), light effects, sky, clouds, just name it, all is rendered in full real time during the game. This is a tribute to the devs (software) and the hardware manufacturers.

 

On the ground the gap is a little more wide ex. rendering people,  much better than before I admit, or landscape details like changes of slope which are very angular which makes train, trucks cars etc.. adapt to the slopes in brutal changes of angles. If we look at bomb or explosion craters they are very crude and the texture is very crude. But we have moving grass, wind effects on the windsock, again nice smoke and dust or snow effects, tracks in the snow, snowdust, dynamic motion of the truck suspensions and also some dynamic motion of railcars, and many details that are excellent.  All in all when you fly at 3000 feet all this is not visible and even when you strafe and do low level bombings and pass at high speed again you do not see much.

 

There is a very big difference between when you fly and when you land at an airfield. There you go slow and move around and you are very near and can admire the details, on objects and people. In fact there should be more resolution in detail for airfield objects than the ones for cities, and open areas where basically nobody goes landing or just crash landing. So yes there may be a little more graphic effort to do on that side and I understand very well it cannot be the priority. But now that we have all the rest for the flight side details,  airfields may be the next step. After all pilots would pass more time on an airfield than in flight combat.

Do not understand me wrong I am not requesting an airfield simulator ;) but airfields are a key element. 

 

Just to measure that long path to graphical perfection. The first air combat flight simulator game that was full 3D and  perfectly fluid (I mean no stutter and no slideshow) was "Hellcats over the pacific" that was a Macintosh game released in 1991. That is just 23 years ago. It was just made of simple coloured enormous polygons. About 30 polygons maximum for a plane. I played for hours and hours with it. Graphics were primitive but it was full 3D and some plane dynamics. Probably many of you were just not born at that time or just babies. I am 55 so I saw the whole saga from the first 2D flight simulators in the 70s to BOS today. And probably played on all of them, MAC or PC. I must have missed just one or two. This allows me to better assess the incredible progress of the hardware and the software over 40 years. But also what has exploded is the cost. At that time a lone guy or two in their week-ends could nearly build a flight simulator at a very ridicoulos cost. Today the financial investment for a game of this level is just astounding.

 

We are now approaching a certain graphical perfection and for certain aspects BOS surpasses what I could dream of in 1991. But we are human beings so, we want always more and are never fully satisfied. That's life. :rolleyes:

Posted

It takes how long to build a working feature in a game?

It depends on how many people you put on the project.

 

 

This reminds me of the old engineer's joke, A woman makes 1 child in 9 months, but 9 women don't make a child in 1 month ... :-)

Posted

This reminds me of the old engineer's joke, A woman makes 1 child in 9 months, but 9 women don't make a child in 1 month ... :-)

 

Haha! Love it!

LLv34_Flanker
Posted (edited)

S!

 

 Extreme One. I would not say lack of talent, but lack of time and resources. Given the timeline BoS has been completed in and budget(we can only guess, but a tight one) constraints the campaign itself works, even lacking immersion and other things. But at least they have a solid base to build on. Making a campaign is not a breeze. The more complicated the more you need work hours. And that is not what BoS devs had at their disposal, I guess. A dream would be something Falcon 4.0 has, just adjusted for WW2. But today the bean counters are breathing down your neck and all has to be profitable..and that is what flight sims do not excel in, unofrtunately being a niché genre.

Edited by LLv34_Flanker
Posted

Oh crap...more aggressive AAA. I'm already getting hammered by the AAA, particularly on the train and airfield missions and despite a lot of evasive manoeuvres. Guess I'll have to get used to a lot more 0 XP !

try this go in has fast has you can in a dive  hit the 1/2 slow key, this helps me a lot

6./ZG26_5tuka
Posted (edited)

"Zu viele Köche verderben den Brei"  ( "Too many cooks spoil the broth" ).

 

The more people you have working for you the more sharing, balaning in terms of workload, payment, controlling/coordination ect has to be done to shape the project right. A big development team doesn't nessecarily increase produtivity, though it has it's advantaged over smaller, more easily coordinated but at the same time highly stressed teams.

 

Some tasks are highly individual and need to be carried on by the same persons. If we have for example 2 different artists with completely different approaches of designing and displaying planes ingame the whole project could turn into a mess. Same counts for coding, although this is less of an creativ thing due to engine limitations.

Edited by [Jg26]5tuka
LY_LCT_ZaltysZ
Posted

- The AAA will be getting more and more aggressive as you level up through campaign;

 

Sounds like dynamic difficulty scaling in The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, in which enemy levels up together with player :) A feature hated by lots of people, by the way.

  • Upvote 2
LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Exactly ZaltysZ. Too much leaning to RPG and MMO games to get features into a simulator. Immersion is brought from other things than leveling up and stuff. If done cleverly there are no objections to have achievements or such, but they should feel being a part of the sim, not a chore in themselves.

Posted

Sounds like dynamic difficulty scaling in The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, in which enemy levels up together with player :) A feature hated by lots of people, by the way.

 

Yep, that is not good

Posted

Yep, that is not good

 

One of the reasons I do not play FPS campaigns and if I do end up on easy mode as the game progresses, maybe AI pilots getting harder but AAA which is something you cannot use skill against?

Posted

Yep, that is not good

+10000

  • 1CGS
Posted

I'm in for the long haul- it looks promising & i know you guys are really trying...but honestly a lot ( for me & others ) depends on controlibilty problems:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11523-new-joystick-controlibility-problems-continue/

 

please watch:

:huh:

p.s. Ju-52's will be cool...and we all know there were quite a few trying to get in & out of Stalingrad at this time....but what targets they'll make!

 

I'll use your video as illustration on advantage of controlability in BoS. Looks moch more natural and closer to IRL planes "short-reactions" on "step-inputs". Also, I see amaizing stall modelling on your video, best stall-modelling in WW2 flight sims ever. Thank you.

PS

Your video is a great illustration, that in-game our cockpits are looks much better. You have shown very obviously that it is necessary to compare graphics in-game, not on screenshots. Thank you again.

And, our resolution on armour-glass prism effect is better too, I see it from your video. Thank you one more time.

  :)

 

That's great news about the briefings. FlatSpinMan and Feathered's examples are excellent!

 

Here's the in game camera perspective of a sortie within the campaign. This mission, I needed to escort (X3) PE-2's.

I decided to leave that part out, and show when the action began engaging a Me 109. Ever had one of those day's where you couldn't hit the side of a Barn? Well, this is my example  :P

Anyhow, enjoy the brief acrobats and fireworks.

 

 

 

The best User-made ingame-video on the moment. Realy great! I feel a little bit proud to be a part of development of this project after watching your video, thank you for this feeling :)

 

You have shown very natural almost everything what we have focused on: Gameplay, Feeling, Physics, Graphics, Features of Airplanes and Ground. Everything is cool, thank you! May be only game-sound in several moments may be more highlighted and final can have a more noticeable fade-out. But it's realy the best :)

 

 

CTD on completion of sp campaign mission.

 

Yes, problem is reported several times on this weekend. Will be fixed till thuesday evening (I'm hope on this).

For now I may to recomend to finish mission ASAP after land and stop.

 

 

Just flew Fw-190 jabo mission, as soon as we arrived target area which was an airfield, AI planes in my wing dropped their bombs to the snow and started chasing Yak cap. We had Bf-109 escorts. They wont engage ground targets even ordered to do so. They wont shoot planes either even on intercept mission.

 

Was this Yak chasing or aiming on you? Fighters do so if strong air threat appears.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Han, Yaks were not attacking me or my flight, they were at safe distance

  • 1CGS
Posted

Han, Yaks were not attacking me or my flight, they were at safe distance

 

Ok, will check ground attack priority. Thanks.

  • Upvote 2
ripperjules9393
Posted

Give us custom difficulty settings for the campaign etc also the ability to customise graphic settings not these retarded presets that dumb down the whole experience. Having a random mission generator that poses as a campaign is bad enough but with the presets as well it turns the game into purgatory. If you continue with this approach a name change should be considered maybe- A Bit of The Battle of Stalingrad (no summer maps etc) or The Bot Skirmish of Stalingrad. To know where one is going one needs to know where one has been, such is the import of accurate history.

Posted (edited)

Exactly this, especially when you are selling the 190 for $20. How can you expect people to buy the 190 when it has one of the most inaccurate FMs in game?

 

Just a word from the developers stating that they are aware of the issue and are planning something would suffice. But once again we are given complete silence on this issue with mentions of a few new carrots to distract us.

Did you fly a Fw-190?! :ph34r:

Wat is bad in the actual FM? :cool:

The Fw-190 was a relatively fast aircraft with a great roll rate a bad turn rate a big engine so a possibility to gain speed a normal climb rate so not a fantastic plane but a plane different than the BF-109 and on the east front not a fighter but a fighter bomber! :( 

 

Edited by senseispcc
Posted

Did you fly a Fw-190?! :ph34r:

Wat is bad in the actual FM? :cool:

The Fw-190 was a relatively fast aircraft with a great roll rate a bad turn rate a big engine so a possibility to gain speed a normal climb rate so not a fantastic plane but a plane different than the BF-109 and on the east front not a fighter but a fighter bomber! :( 

 

The roll rate isn't correct, also, the "supercharger bug zone" which gives you terrible performance between ~1800m to ~4000m.

 

Sad.

  • 1CGS
Posted

Did you fly a Fw-190?! :ph34r:

Wat is bad in the actual FM? :cool:

They just need to claim something. So... they claim :)

We're very democratic - so we don't moderate claims, even if they're not impersonal and objective :)

The roll rate isn't correct, also, the "supercharger bug zone" which gives you terrible performance between ~1800m to ~4000m.

 

Sad.

 

To be "impersonal and objective" send your sources with explains to my PM box. Roll-rates were finalized to our sources a month ago.

Posted

try this go in has fast has you can in a dive  hit the 1/2 slow key, this helps me a lot

Thanks for the tip, but I would rather try and fly my way out of the situation than use a gamey trick to avoid the flak. So far just keeping my eye on where the flak is coming from and manoeuvring, sometimes quite violently, to avoid it seems to be working. Taking out the flak wagons on the train first also helps a lot. A few smoking engines or riddled wings on the way back, but nothing fatal for a while now.

LLv34_Flanker
Posted

S!

 

 Well, finally found the reason why some graphics look poop during night missions. It is the cockpit glass and how it works. Is it a shader or what, but it is part of the problem causing low color depth looking graphics. Easy to test during night, just pop open canopy and see yourself. Without glass in the way = crisper graphics. With canopy closed = the strange film applied to the image. IT does not affect the cockpit interior.

 

 

post-539-0-83463100-1413026164_thumb.png

post-539-0-55089400-1413026187_thumb.png

post-539-0-83322400-1413026203_thumb.png

  • 1CGS
Posted

My monitor is too cheap... Looks like. I can't notify any difference on your red arrows...

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