Developer Diary, Part 82

[Han]

I know, was just trying to clear up the misunderstanding that the 91-year old Stepan Mikoyan was their only test pilot.

 

Actualy, Stepan Anastasovich Mickoyan was a combat fighter pilot. His first combat sortie was above the Stalingrad.

He have become a test pilot after the War have ended.

 

And you know what - he is now have better mind than many modern people. Still driving car, actualy. In Moscow traffic

 

Another expert was a Barsuk - test pilot of organization which performed restavration of flyable MiG-3, Il-2, I-16.

Vladimir Evgenyevich Barsuk - also is a director of SibNIA - Siberia Aviation Sintefic Institute - the lead organization in development of Su-27 airframe, for example.

 

I'm beleive these two people more than enyone here on forum. Even more than everyone here in summ

Here may be 100 000 of GOZRs - I'll beleive them less than I beleive these two guys

[FZG_Merlin]

Actualy, Stepan Anastasovich Mickoyan was a combat fighter pilot. His first combat sortie was above the Stalingrad.

He have become a test pilot after the War have ended.

 

And you know what - he is now have better mind than many modern people. Still driving car, actualy. In Moscow traffic

 

Another expert was a Barsuk - test pilot of organization which performed restavration of flyable MiG-3, Il-2, I-16.

Vladimir Evgenyevich Barsuk - also is a director of SibNIA - Siberia Aviation Sintefic Institute - the lead organization in development of Su-27 airframe, for example.

 

I'm beleive these two people more than enyone here on forum. Even more than everyone here in summ

Here may be 100 000 of GOZRs - I'll beleive them less than I beleive these two guys

Han,

 

Just a question.

 

Doesn't it bother you that the fw-190 hasn't a faster roll rate or roll reaction than planes like the 109 or the la-5 in your sim ? As an aviation enthusiast, who has read a lot about the topic, don't you find it weird that what was and is known to be a strong point of this plane cannot be exploited in the game ? If the 190 roll rate is deemed correct, isn't there an exaggerated roll rate for other planes ?

 

Really an honest question

Edited October 13, 2014 by FZG_Immel

[SR-F_Winger]

You do not fly in Star Citizen though. You aim somewhere and you ship flies there automatically, like mouse-aim in Arcade in WarThunder.

Pre Alpha. It will evolve. And has already much more to it than warthunder will ever have.

[Wulf]

I don't really care for it. I fine with the fm as they are now since they balance the game. I'm ok with it..

 

That being said, it is funny that one of the most famous strong point of a plane (it's famous roll rate that permitted him to evade adversaries) that is mentioned in flight manuals, tests reports, and anecdotes from both it's pilots and adversaries, and confirmed by replicas, isn't present in the game.. When a la-5 outroll a fw-190, you know something isn't right.

 

Anyway. Matter closed as he said.

 

 

As far as I'm aware, the La-5 doesn't out-roll the 190 but for all practical purposes, it does appear to roll about the same.  Funny how it just happens to work out that way but there it is.    It's the old story, you pays your money and you take your chances.

[Han]

Han,

 

Just a question.

 

Doesn't it bother you that the fw-190 hasn't a faster roll rate or roll reaction than planes like the 109 or the la-5 in your sim ? As an aviation enthusiast, who has read a lot about the topic, don't you find it weird that what was and is known to be a strong point of this plane cannot be exploited in the game ? If the 190 roll rate is deemed correct, isn't there an exaggerated roll rate for other planes ?

 

Really an honest question

 

As I've responded before - our Fw-190 roll is fine corresponding to NACA flight test report for this plane.

[Han]

Other Fw190 FM claims - as I've promised, will be responded too. Roll is just one of them.

[Livai]

That are a dead turret gunner that still shots at me!

 

 

That are holes from bombs but they not work like holes? A simple texture overlay not more.

 

 

 

 

 

Lets see what next surprise awaiting me during the campaign mode?

[FlatSpinMan]

Post these in the Bug Report thread.

[Han]

As far as I'm aware, the La-5 doesn't out-roll the 190 but for all practical purposes, it does appear to roll about the same.  Funny how it just happens to work out that way but there it is.    It's the old story, you pays your money and you take your chances.

 

La-5 have near-to-same airofoil and greater relative aeliron surface and greater aeliron deflection angle.

 

This is the reason why La-5 have better roll on low speeds. And this is the reason why Fw-190 have better roll at high speeds (because aeliron control gear ratio is less when aeliron angle is greater).

 

Later La-5 (after our one) have had the same aeliron deflection angle as Fw-190 have, so they're near to same.

 

Also, Fw-190 have greater moment of inertia in roll, this why it have less roll acceleration too.

 

We have direct flight test data on later La-5 (with reduced aelirons angle), it is enought to make correct adjustments on early one (with greater angle of aelirons deflection).

[Han]

That are holes from bombs but they not work like holes? A simple texture overlay not more.

 

Lets see what next surprise awaiting me during the campaign mode?

 

Gunner - he have fired, but have he aimed after this? Or it just "holds the trigger in death convulsions..."?

 

Craters are not physical. graphics only now.

[BFsSmurfy]

I like the above answer even though I know FA about FM, that`s the sort of answer the community wants from the Devs.

[APIKalimba]

I have a question for those who still think that planes' FM are not accurate. In your opinion, how

close to reality in % would you say BOS planes are at this stage of development ?

 

Just curious about overall perceptions....

[Finkeren]

I have a question for those who still think that planes' FM are not accurate. In your opinion, how

close to reality in % would you say BOS planes are at this stage of development ?

 

Just curious about overall perceptions....

 

[Han]

I have a question for those who still think that planes' FM are not accurate. In your opinion, how

close to reality in % would you say BOS planes are at this stage of development ?

 

Just curious about overall perceptions....

 

In main charactiristics - 2..5%. It's same with real airplanes characteristics deviations between different planes in one production batch.

[FlatSpinMan]

That's a hard question. First of all, they're all simulations, so they can't be 100% as that would be reality. Then it depends a bit on how they're flown - ie realistically and with an awareness of the limitations of the aircraft, or just yanked all around the sky (the way I do it). Depends a bit on what kind of set-up the player has, too. I know nothing about these things but that is a really hard question to answer, I think.

[Marauder]

I'm beleive these two people more than enyone here on forum. Even more than everyone here in summ

Here may be 100 000 of GOZRs - I'll beleive them less than I beleive these two guys

Your loss.

[FZG_Merlin]

As I've responded before - our Fw-190 roll is fine corresponding to NACA flight test report for this plane.

 

 

this was not the question I asked you, but ok. Your later answer about the la-5 is what i was looking for..

 

Thank you.

Edited October 13, 2014 by FZG_Immel

[APIKalimba]

That's a hard question. First of all, they're all simulations, so they can't be 100% as that would be reality. Then it depends a bit on how they're flown - ie realistically and with an awareness of the limitations of the aircraft, or just yanked all around the sky (the way I do it). Depends a bit on what kind of set-up the player has, too. I know nothing about these things but that is a really hard question to answer, I think.

Good point. But still... All FM " unhappy customers" base their comments on " real aircraft data'' and some subjective reports

of WW2 pilots. So my question is, what would be an acceptable % of accuracy in terms of FM model according to those who are

still unhappy with it, starting with my first question: how close are we at this moment by their own standards ?

[FlatSpinMan]

Didn't Han already reply?

[Finkeren]

FSM: I'm pretty sure Kalimba directed the question at those unhappy with the FM, not at Han.

[Livai]

Gunner - he have fired, but have he aimed after this? Or it just "holds the trigger in death convulsions..."?

 

Craters are not physical. graphics only now.

Q: Gunner - he aimed after this?

A: Yes, still aimed me everytime when my plane reached the fire range from the turret gun. The turret gun fired at me from alone. The turret gunner was a long time dead there was no holds the trigger in death convulsions. The turret gun was still alive after this and fired without a turret gunner at me.

[unreasonable]

I hate to interrupt your very important conversation about the Fw190, but I would just like to point out that the last update introduced a fairly annoying bug:

 

"Trimmers and stabilizers are now set for cruise flight;"

 

Well, possibly, but the in cockpit trim indicator is still set at the mid point at the start of the mission. Given that the actual trim is now set nose down, this means that the first trim adjustment, even a move to increase nose down trim, will lead to a dramatic pitch up! Please either reverse the update change or fix the indicator to match the actual trim. So far I have observed this in the Lagg3, 109 F-4 and IL2, so I think it is a general problem.

 

I am actually enjoying the SP missions: but I would enjoy them even more if a few more of our suggested improvements make it into the next updates.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

this was not the question I asked you, but ok. Your later answer about the la-5 is what i was looking for..

 

Thank you.

 

to bad, that no one here has data about the role rate of the Lagg, or the La5. So it's very much on the Devs interpretation, how they model it.

And in the end, the result is that they, funnily enough, are rolling as fast as the Fw, and so you can't fly the Fw in certain situations, like it was supposed to be. That's a bad end-result.

[SR-F_Winger]

One 5% better and one 5% worse still makes 10% diffrence.

I wouldnt mind that if it was dynamic like in RL productionline deviations. But i think it isnt - right?

 

So just hypothetical:

 

Plane A 560 km/h TAS at 5k (2% less than testdata -> 11km/h diffrence)

Plane B 540 km/h TAS at 5k (2% more than testdata -> 11 km/h diffrence)

Cumulates to 22km/h permanent diffrence in favor of one plane.

 

But thats worst case scenario.

I wonder if it has been ensured in QA that this scenario does NOT apply in any case or, more importantly, that the inaccuracies have been spread even between the sides:)

Edited October 13, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

ie realistically and with an awareness of the limitations of the aircraft, or just yanked all around the sky (the way I do it)

 

As Geoff Wellum said in a recent documentary, that is precicely how you fly in combat.

[APIKalimba]

Haha! Well, that may be true, but after spending hours reading about complaints regarding FM, I think it is

about time to call for a ''reality check''. :-) I mean it seems to me that many of the '' complainers'' will NEVER be happy

unless the FM is absolutely perfect according to ... What ...? Undisputable and universal DATA or 75 years old planes ?

In the flight caracteristics test done in the 1940s, did they included wind speed, temperatures , atmospheric changes, cold or warm engine,etc...? Curious...

[Han]

Q: Gunner - he aimed after this?

A: Yes, still aimed me everytime when my plane reached the fire range from the turret gun. The turret gun fired at me from alone. The turret gunner was a long time dead there was no holds the trigger in death convulsions. The turret gun was still alive after this and fired without a turret gunner at me.

 

Please respond to my PM box - was this plane AI plane in single player mode, or this is another player in multiplayer?

[Trooper117]

lol... yes, 'Guy Martins Spitfire'... saw it last night!

[APIKalimba]

FSM: I'm pretty sure Kalimba directed the question at those unhappy with the FM, not at Han.

Yes... Indeed ! Though I am glad Han responded...It ils good to know where he stands....

[FlatSpinMan]

The "First light" chap? Excellent - I'm in good company then. I loved that book. I must find it and reread it.

[FZG_Merlin]

to bad, that no one here has data about the role rate of the Lagg, or the La5. So it's very much on the Devs interpretation, how they model it.

And in the end, the result is that they, funnily enough, are rolling as fast as the Fw, and so you can't fly the Fw in certain situations, like it was supposed to be. That's a bad end-result.

 

thats precisely why i asked the question i asked...

 

but the answer I got said it all.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

One 5% better and one 5% worse still makes 10% diffrence.

I wouldnt mind that if it was dynamic like in RL productionline deviations. But i think it isnt - right?

 

So just hypothetical:

 

Plane A 560 km/h TAS at 5k (2% less than testdata -> 11km/h diffrence)

Plane B 540 km/h TAS at 5k (2% more than testdata -> 11 km/h diffrence)

Cumulates to 22km/h permanent diffrence in favor of one plane.

 

But thats worst case scenario.

I wonder if it has been ensured in QA that this scenario does NOT apply in any case or, more importantly, that the inaccuracies have been spread even between the sides:)I

It was stated pretty early in the development process that it IS dynamic. Each individual aircraft will have it's own starting parameters within a few % points of the baseline. Your first hop and your next hop will have slightly different performance in the same model of aircraft. I think ROF does this as well.

[SR-F_Winger]

It was stated pretty early in the development process that it IS dynamic. Each individual aircraft will have it's own starting parameters within a few % points of the baseline. Your first hop and your next hop will have slightly different performance in the same model of aircraft. I think ROF does this as well.

Uhhh nice. I didnt know that! Thanks for the info!

[FZG_Merlin]

 

 

In the flight caracteristics test done in the 1940s, did they included wind speed, temperatures , atmospheric changes, cold or warm engine,etc...? Curious...

 

 

I think your giving little credit to pilots and engeneers of the 40's.....

 

about the same kind of people later on established speed records that still stand and went too the moon.

 

[APIKalimba]

One 5% better and one 5% worse still makes 10% diffrence.

I wouldnt mind that if it was dynamic like in RL productionline deviations. But i think it isnt - right?

 

So just hypothetical:

 

Plane A 560 km/h TAS at 5k (2% less than testdata -> 11km/h diffrence)

Plane B 540 km/h TAS at 5k (2% more than testdata -> 11 km/h diffrence)

Cumulates to 22km/h permanent diffrence in favor of one plane.

 

But thats worst case scenario.

I wonder if it has been ensured in QA that this scenario does NOT apply in any case or, more importantly, that the inaccuracies have been spread even between the sides:)

So your conclusion is that a 90% FM accuracy for a $60 flight sim is acceptable or unacceptable ?

I think your giving little credit to pilots and engeneers of the 40's.....

 

about the same kind of people later on established speed records that still stand and went too the moon.

 

Yeah...hum...language .... OK...when people do the ''comparison tests'' in BOS, do they reproduce also those atmospherical

variables found in those historical DATA ?

 

More accurate question... :-)

[FZG_Merlin]

I would think that for the roll rate, the indicated airspeed is all that matters. the 'felt' air density (by ailerons) would be the same at same indicated air speed.

[Marauder]

True air speed matters, too. Helix angle, Mach number and stuff.

[URUAker]

 

 

The AAA will be getting more and more aggressive as you level up through campaign

Why? Do they get XP for finishing missions too? Do they get mad at you because they identify you as the one that got away earlier.

They get better with each mission and never die? I really dont understand this

[Beazil]

Boomerang that was a really nice video. Thanks for making that and sharing it. Looked really nice.

[DD_bongodriver]

Why? Do they get XP for finishing missions too? Do they get mad at you because they identify you as the one that got away earlier.

They get better with each mission and never die? I really dont understand this

 

as you get more ultra-awesome with massive amounts of sick XP points your enemy gets more angry and start to fight back harder, I seen it in Hollywood movies.