Developers: have you tried out the Oculus Rift DK2 with BoS yet?

[Freycinet]

If so, how is it?... 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

they said we should know more after the 15th

[Freycinet]

OK, ..... oh, the suspense!

[[JG2]R7_Blackadder]

At least do WE know which model to buy?

 

Because I don't....

[DD_bongodriver]

Right now you can only buy the DK2, I wouldn't bother, it is intended solely for developers to implement into the software, if you are an enthusiast and are fully aware of the limitations of development hardware then go for it.

 

Edit:

 

I said I wouldn't bother but I did actually buy both dev kits to date, I think it's great and am really keen on seeing the development, but many users might be expecting a finished top spec product and that is where they will be disappointed.

Edited October 11, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[[JG2]R7_Blackadder]

Why disappointed ?

[DD_bongodriver]

like I said, if you buy it expecting a final version product then you will be disappointed because it is not a final version, the screen resolution is not up to the task for competitive online flight siming (it's fairly useable for anything else though), if you just think VR is cool and really really want to see what is going on then you will love it.

 

The final consumer version is likely to be released in 2015, I trust Oculus to release a very well polished finalised product and by then there should be much more support for it.

[[JG2]R7_Blackadder]

I see, thought you meant the final version would have been a disappointment nonetheless.

 

That was my idea anyway, hopefully it won't take too much time.

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

I also owned a DK2 Oculus and while it enhances the feel, the dk2 has too low resolution and too less refresh rate and still latency issues. So, what do the minimum need to implement: A 4k display. Which AAA title can run in 4k with minimum constant 90 fps for the new scientifcally researched 90Hz minimum to feel completely connected? None!

 

I do not understand all this barking for urgent support here. We have other resolution problems, that need to be done first. Much more people have decent rig with a triple screen setup. And this is not working although this probably could be a much easier task. 

 

So, getting Rift support in the release version of BOS is so egoistically thought, that it blows my mind. Yes: I wanna try it out as well, but....man, we are more than 2 years away from running in sufficient resolutions with sufficient FPS on sufficient refresh rates. Even Mr Oculus itself says, that this takes another long journey to make it run in the correct setup in games with realistic graphics.

 

Let us be honest: It is currently not more than just a hyped playtoy. And while I am Fan of such things, there are other setups to serve first. Oculus IS NOT important...nowhere in the near future...Or do you think, the devs here need more than 1 year to implement? The game is done and it is a game, that can potentially be reconfigured for Oculus. But they will not program towards pure VR requirements. Otherwise we wouldnt have such headshakes and so on. Technically they never primarily built this sim towards the Oculus. This already is over! So...polls told us, that a significant number of simmers have a triple screen (which is currently much more immersive and important and possibly survives VR as VR is nowhere near to be considered to competitively fly or game...in no game...). Why are they not supporting triple screens first. More than 70% of my surrounding is flying or will fly in the near future with Tripe Screen Setups. This is important, as we lose them already. They simply have no interest to fly a game, that probably isnt able to support the most common "enhanced" display setups, that is actually used EXTENSIVELY. 

 

Oculus? After evaluating it very carefully with tons of background reading and watching, we are so far away....Technically currently impossible and we wont see technical solutions for this within the next years to make it worth for a mature and passioned flight simmer. It is way off and it looks crap. You can play low graphics, cartoonish games, but high fidelity will take soo much technical evolution over years to reach our standard. And that is fact...also for the man himself. And he knows, what he is talking about. And even the huge money behind it will be able to drive it much faster. There are other gaps and technical problems, that will occur.

 

So @ Devs from a DK2 user: Screw it!!! It is not worth it!!! You can work after all the claims that you already got. And concerning displays, the triple screen party is much bigger and much more present! Get them served before they all leave nevertheless. 

After that: You have enough to do to serve content, balancing issues, get us scenarious, refuel/rearm/repair, moving dogfights, SEOW like tools, more traffic and immersion on airstrips and whatnot. The list is so epically huge and the community will only stay, if they get some tool at hands to realize community events. And those events is not opening a server and let them random dogfight like crap. No atmo and not, what sim players usually search for. If I wanna play random games, I play WoT or counterstrike or such crap, but not fly on a "Rudelbums" Server (german word) all day and night.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Really? you don't sound like a DK2 owner to me. You sound more like someone who tried DK1 and has it confused for DK2... Owning a DK2 I disagree entirely with your assesment. The CV1 (1140p@90fps) will do fine and is likely to be released next fall. 

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

Sorry, but that is way to less resolution and palmer says so as well. If you see him the last interviews, he is NOT very satisfied. He wanted to let the rift go with well crafted, funy games for that experience and that was not really AAA titles. He knows, that this is far too early. I have tested both Oculus and the DK2 is WAY to less resolution. Every small detail gets corona effects, small grass turns into a mess, waving hair is not possible, etc. 

 

Even the 4k devided into 2 screens with JUST 1920 pixel horizontally in a stretched image for .... lt us say 16:10 or 16:9....This is rediculously low with additionall lenses, that make that even bigger. The DK 2 is even worse than stare into my 30 inch scree with my eyes only 5cm away.....I mean, my display probably has a better pixel density than this. Even a big 27" display with only a tn panel with 1080p has not that much pixels, when you press your nose onto the monitor. Sorry, but the lenses do the rest to make it an unacceptable density. 

 

I had many guys hear and wether they are into gaming or PC or totally not. Everyone said in their first sentence: Wow, this picture looks shitty, you can see every pixel and no detail is correct. This epically fails under 4k and even 4k with current technics is useless. They need to implement every technology, that helps get rid of this effects. And that with 90 fps minimum!!! Everything else is just a funny toy for kids. And as no graphics card combination (+ all the other hardware) will get into such high fps in the next few years, we will ultimately see the rift becoming interesting just for Oculus built games and not AAA titles. Not to mention, that it makes no sense to play any games, where you not sit down in a cockpit. Flight sims, racing, space sims and that pretty much is it. But it stays as it is for the first years. Even Palmer says that! And only when the whole hardware and gaming industry shift all their power towards making that running, it will still take 2-3 years minimum. The technology simply cannot do it. 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

You have your information wrong. Palmer states that the optics were the major problem. Also if you watched Oculus Connect live stream you would see Carmack talking about how a lot of the problem stems from aliasing. Furthermore I can find a single review of the new Crescent Bay prototype where anyone complains about being able to see pixels. I am 100% confident that the first production version of Oculus Rift will be good enough for online combat flight sims as they've also addressed getting positional tracking behind your head as well as increased the FOV, Refresh Rate, Optics & Resolution in the most recent demo and have stated that it's NOT the production specs they are still likely to improve. A single 980 is all thats needed to drive a current DK2 to 75fps. I'm sure whatever card thats available in a year when the CV1 is released will also be similarly compatible with the possible 1440p/90hz as Oculus and Nvidia are working closely together these days. 

 

When silent movies first got sound there were people who said audio would ruin films. You sound almost as silly. I believe you may just be regurgitating things you've read on the internet. I recently saw GTX980 SLI test hit 100+ fps in many titles at 4K.

Edited October 17, 2014 by driftaholic

[Arctu]

[...]

 

Let us be honest: It is currently not more than just a hyped playtoy. And while I am Fan of such things, there are other setups to serve first. Oculus IS NOT important...nowhere in the near future...Or do you think, the devs here need more than 1 year to implement? The game is done and it is a game, that can potentially be reconfigured for Oculus. But they will not program towards pure VR requirements. Otherwise we wouldnt have such headshakes and so on. Technically they never primarily built this sim towards the Oculus. This already is over! So...polls told us, that a significant number of simmers have a triple screen (which is currently much more immersive and important and possibly survives VR as VR is nowhere near to be considered to competitively fly or game...in no game...). Why are they not supporting triple screens first. More than 70% of my surrounding is flying or will fly in the near future with Tripe Screen Setups. This is important, as we lose them already. They simply have no interest to fly a game, that probably isnt able to support the most common "enhanced" display setups, that is actually used EXTENSIVELY. 

 

[...]

 

 

You should have played Elite Dangerous with your DK2. This game has been developed from the start for Oculus Rift and it's amazing. You can read everything without problems, even on the low resultion DK2. It's also very competitive against other display options and the immersion is fantastic. There already is a new Oculus Rift prototype available for game developers. Apparently, the step up to the new version is as big as the step from DK1 to DK2 was. It has a lot higher resultion, lower lag, wider range of headtracking and some integrated sound functionality. This is close to being consumer ready.

 

VR is the future of video games, and I doubt it's going to be long until it becomes mainstream  Can't wait until I can play IL2 BoS with my Rift.

 

You are right that it will probably be a while until we play first person shooters or real time strategy with VR, but there is already more than flight sims and racing. I can think of giant mechs (something like Mechwarrior), Tanks, scubadiving (should work pretty well with a gamepad) or controlling a submarine,

Edited October 18, 2014 by Arctu

[=SVP=deZpe]

I also owned a DK2 Oculus and while it enhances the feel, the dk2 has too low resolution and too less refresh rate and still latency issues. So, what do the minimum need to implement: A 4k display. Which AAA title can run in 4k with minimum constant 90 fps for the new scientifcally researched 90Hz minimum to feel completely connected? None!

 

I do not understand all this barking for urgent support here. We have other resolution problems, that need to be done first. Much more people have decent rig with a triple screen setup. And this is not working although this probably could be a much easier task. 

 

So, getting Rift support in the release version of BOS is so egoistically thought, that it blows my mind. Yes: I wanna try it out as well, but....man, we are more than 2 years away from running in sufficient resolutions with sufficient FPS on sufficient refresh rates. Even Mr Oculus itself says, that this takes another long journey to make it run in the correct setup in games with realistic graphics.

 

Let us be honest: It is currently not more than just a hyped playtoy. And while I am Fan of such things, there are other setups to serve first. Oculus IS NOT important...nowhere in the near future...Or do you think, the devs here need more than 1 year to implement? The game is done and it is a game, that can potentially be reconfigured for Oculus. But they will not program towards pure VR requirements. Otherwise we wouldnt have such headshakes and so on. Technically they never primarily built this sim towards the Oculus. This already is over! So...polls told us, that a significant number of simmers have a triple screen (which is currently much more immersive and important and possibly survives VR as VR is nowhere near to be considered to competitively fly or game...in no game...). Why are they not supporting triple screens first. More than 70% of my surrounding is flying or will fly in the near future with Tripe Screen Setups. This is important, as we lose them already. They simply have no interest to fly a game, that probably isnt able to support the most common "enhanced" display setups, that is actually used EXTENSIVELY. 

 

Oculus? After evaluating it very carefully with tons of background reading and watching, we are so far away....Technically currently impossible and we wont see technical solutions for this within the next years to make it worth for a mature and passioned flight simmer. It is way off and it looks crap. You can play low graphics, cartoonish games, but high fidelity will take soo much technical evolution over years to reach our standard. And that is fact...also for the man himself. And he knows, what he is talking about. And even the huge money behind it will be able to drive it much faster. There are other gaps and technical problems, that will occur.

 

So @ Devs from a DK2 user: Screw it!!! It is not worth it!!! You can work after all the claims that you already got. And concerning displays, the triple screen party is much bigger and much more present! Get them served before they all leave nevertheless. 

After that: You have enough to do to serve content, balancing issues, get us scenarious, refuel/rearm/repair, moving dogfights, SEOW like tools, more traffic and immersion on airstrips and whatnot. The list is so epically huge and the community will only stay, if they get some tool at hands to realize community events. And those events is not opening a server and let them random dogfight like crap. No atmo and not, what sim players usually search for. If I wanna play random games, I play WoT or counterstrike or such crap, but not fly on a "Rudelbums" Server (german word) all day and night.

 

I am owning a DK2 since two weeks now and use it for DCS and Warthunder on a daily basis (2-3h). And even though i agree that 4K @ 75Hz would make this "hyped playtoy" the perfect display for pretty much everything, i greatly prefer flying with the rift instead of monitor/trackIR combination. The reason is that it greatly enhances your positional awareness and feeling of orientation and distance which simply translates into a much better dog-fighting capability. My point is: for may flyers it is not about highend graphics, but about the feeling and immersion of the game which bring the fun. I am 100% sure that the consumer version will be another great step totally justifying working on the implementation right now with the DK2.

 

VR is the future of video games - no doubt about it once you have put this thing on and experienced it first hand.

[JG27_Chivas]

There is no doubt that VR/AR is the future of flight sims.  The DK2 prototype definitely isn't good enough, and I haven't tried the Cresent Bay prototype, but I'm confident that the CV1 will be so immersive that very few who try it will ever want to go back to any kind of monitor/TrackIR setup.

[15[Span.]/JG51Costa]

 I'm confident that the CV1 will be so immersive that very few who try it will ever want to go back to any kind of monitor/TrackIR setup.

Agree

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

That was my impression with Elite Dangerous , I just can't play it on a monitor after seeing it in Rift. Everything looks flat on a flat screen .

 

BoS is a different story though , I will certainly play it in Rift , but for duels with real players, which I play a lot , I will stick to monitor and TrackIR.

 

I wonder will gtx 980 in SLI will be enough to power CV of Rift in BoS.

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

There is no doubt that VR/AR is the future of flight sims.  The DK2 prototype definitely isn't good enough, and I haven't tried the Cresent Bay prototype, but I'm confident that the CV1 will be so immersive that very few who try it will ever want to go back to any kind of monitor/TrackIR setup.

 

Okay: CV1 must be 4k and 4k in graphical demanding games? How? So, in the first years until we get the 2 major problems solved  (-> resolution and sufficient FPS to make you feel inside. -> 85 Hz scientifically proven minimum to make it a suitable experience), we will not see anybody playing with that. It stays a toy until 4k displays in a good pixel density will be introduced (currently we do not have any display near that, that not makes the dots noticable like hell). And then...in 1-2 years...we still will have the problem of the other hardware (cpu, gpu, ram, vram, ssd...), that they are not able to give you the URGENTLY required 85 fps for the 85Hz display (preferrably even higher -> better is 144 hz or more. Anyone, who evaluated the hardware can just come to 1 current result: It is a toy and not more! Until we make huge steps in all technologies, we are not able to make that sufficiently running in the dimension, that Palmer, the founder and man himself, is requiring. 

 

What will we?: We see CV1 making its hype, bought by the gamers, but only making Oculus suitable games (low graphics, probably cartoonish, etc.). And only where the 85 fps are being reached, it is possible to make that a good device. So, we will sacrifice graphics for the first games. Fun, but not mass market and not valuable as Oculus is not a global standard. Others will follow.

Then we will see 1 iteration and probably the next is perhaps gives you the possibility to play those higher games. So, result carefully measured by the maturely thinking enthusiasts is 2-3 years or more. I tend to say 4 years until we can play Arma 3 (4) in a sufficient quality. Same to Star Citizen. The graphics cards are already burning and have to manage huge Poly-Counts and textures like hell. To make that playable on 4 k with let us say 60 fps (which is very optimistic), we need another 4-6 graphics cards evolutions.

It is technically impossible....simple as that and no matter what some say. I mean: Hey, even the tech guys behind it say that....So, trust them and not dream too much!

That was my impression with Elite Dangerous , I just can't play it on a monitor after seeing it in Rift. Everything looks flat on a flat screen .

 

BoS is a different story though , I will certainly play it in Rift , but for duels with real players, which I play a lot , I will stick to monitor and TrackIR.

 

I wonder will gtx 980 in SLI will be enough to power CV of Rift in BoS.

Ehm, with a 4k display serving the right fps (VERY important for perception and the correct feeling of being inside), a definite and 100% no! Not possible..

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

That is just explaining the gaps, that technical passioned guys already know. So...why so mad? It is like it is and it is proved even by the developers themselves. Get it right. I don't want you to not use it. I just explained the schedule and the gaps, that it has. And everyone, who is a bit of interested should know it. Or do you want the same mentality like in buying Nvidia GFX cards all the way without technically knowing, what is true and what not? We have enough hype and misinformation. 

 

So, it is my pleasure to present you, what the Oculus currently is about. It is a dev kit, not mass market. You should not buy it now for playing games. It is not meant for that. And so: As we know, that release is far away, we can still concentrate on other topics, that are more problematic, then serving 5-8 guys. Priorities shouldnt be implementing a dev kit version of a product, that will need years to be setup and work correctly. 

Sorry, but that is selfish and not very mature. We simply dont need it first. We need it in approx. 1/2 - 1 year from now. So, dont waste time and do content instead of serving small crowds with technically questionable devices in alpha stage! 

 

No trolling. Just getting the facts right and understand it technically and its schedule. 

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

CV1 will most certainly not be 4K , so I don't know when are you getting that from. Also we don't know what sort of technology is Oculus working behind the closed doors. People who tried new prototype have already confirmed that the 'screen door effect' is almost gone and that perceived resolution is higher than DK2. Main improvement being new optics that they are developing.

 

Nvidia is working with Oculus to have new SLI render proccess. Each card would render one image (one eye) so therefore there should be better performance with that solution.

 

I don't dispute that eventually we will see 4K Oculus Rift , and by the time it happens we will have PC's that will be able to run games optimised for it.

 

Even now , who said you have to have all you graphics options set to Ultra , we could still play BoS on lower settings and I think it should reach playable framerates on current tech.

 

Don't worry about the Devs prioritising Rift support over any other aspect of the game. They won't do that , it was announced that we will get full support when the game is released. That didn't happen , no questions about DK2 support are answered on this forum , there was an answer on Steam forum from Zak , saying we should get support in one of the updates coming in November. So it's not really high on priority list ,and that's understandable.

 

I personally am hopeful that we will get our DK2's supported sooner or later , then we can form an opinion on how it works (or not) , until then it's pure speculation.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

By the way , there is around 40000 DK2 users out there. And they are all potential customers whou could by BoS if it works reasonably in Rift . So it's not about serving 5-8 guys here , it's about attracting potential buyers who are already DK owners and being aware of it's limitations they would still buy BoS. I bought Elite : Dangerous for €60 , just to check out DK2 support and I was not disappointed, I was blown away and this game alone made me confident that VR is certainly happening , and it's not years away as you say it. Of course it must/will improve , but it's proven to be working already and CV version will be a massive improvement in quality.

 

Jason hinted in one of his posts that he knows more about Oculus hardware development but can't discuss it because he's under NDA. I would like to hear from the devs what is their opinion on how is BoS working in DK2. They have it running I presume , I wonder what is their impression so far. It must be close to six weeks since the got their Development Kit. I am not pressuring anyone to throw everything and work on Rift support , but I am curious as an enthusiast ( I believe devs are also enthusiasts) of how is it coming along.

[JG27_Chivas]

There is no doubt it will be very difficult to run complex combat flight sims at 95 Hertz.   Will it require a top of the line computer system, and appropriate setting options, probably, but not impossible.  For the last few years I've lost interest in combat flight sims, or any gaming for that matter.  That said I have hopes that future VR HMD's might make combat flight sims more immersive/ fun again, and revive the genre.   Right now the genre is dead, with only a few squabbling participants that any new developer wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.   There is still a huge question mark whether BOS will generate the funds required too make further development of the series worthwhile.

 

The DK2 1080P isn't good enough, but proves the unsurpassed immersion possibilities.   The Cresent Bay prototype which is rumoured to be 1440P has apparently removed much of the SDE issue.   There is a good chance that the first consumer version will have a custom display (minimum 1440P) with features made especially for VR by Oculus's partner Samsung, which could be more than adequate for a decent flight sim experience.    If the CV1 shows signs of promise, I will buy, and put together the best system possible, and run the sim with the appropriate settings.    I don't need to see distant dots, as I haven't been able to see them for years anyway.  I'll just form up, online with people that can, or momentarily use Icons when flying offline.  

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Way more than 40k. They've shipped a 100k last I read. Zak mentioned on another thread a few UI issues are being addressed but DK2 support will be announced soon after. 

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

I tried Alien: Isolation last night. Best looking game in Rift so far. Almost no screen door effect , I hardly see any pixels. Works very smooth on Ultra graphics , no stutter, no loss of tracking. I am very impressed.

 

My only problem was that I really can't do FPS in Rift , after 5 minutes I had to stop because on nausea.

 

This is one of the current limitations , my brain just can't accept that I am walking/turning around when I actually sit in my chair. It would probably be slightly better if my character in game was in a motorised wheelchair. Less chance of feeling like Casper the friendy ghost , floating around . It would be harder to try to hide from the Alien though

Way more than 40k. They've shipped a 100k last I read. Zak mentioned on another thread a few UI issues are being addressed but DK2 support will be announced soon after.

 

100 thousands? Do you have any quotes on that? I don't doubt but I think was around 40K in August , I might be wrong.

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

I tried Alien: Isolation last night. Best looking game in Rift so far. Almost no screen door effect , I hardly see any pixels. Works very smooth on Ultra graphics , no stutter, no loss of tracking. I am very impressed. My only problem was that I really can't do FPS in Rift , after 5 minutes I had to stop because on nausea.

 

My description exactly, amazing visuals, but I really wanted to blow chunks quite quick, took me a while to get used to HL2, but the immersion in Alien isolation was wow....maybe I was lucky I couldn't play it in the rift.....I may have crapped my pants.

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

Way more than 40k. They've shipped a 100k last I read. Zak mentioned on another thread a few UI issues are being addressed but DK2 support will be announced soon after. 

Yes, and only a dozen is here!   And 100 k is DK1 and 2 combined...grmpf

 

Screen Door Effect is the smallest problem from tech side. And I know, that CV1 probably wont be 4k (which could be a serious problem, also meant by Palmer...still!!) New Nvidia Render Process is a request for/from Oculus as well. But nothing close to release or real consideration. Still, the SLI tech problem still remains quite certain. 

 

Played Alien Isolation as well and they have crapped texts, which you only can guess. But I must admit, that it is working quite well, although graphics due to the bad pixel density cannot follow the beauty, that the game has. No small object and thin object looks correctly. That is, because you only have the bad resolution of 960x1080 for the total picture. Arma 3 in Helicopters also is a cool feeling....but it cannot image the graphics (grass, trees, wires, etc.). And this is only emulated. So, more res and more res means more gfx cards and more VRAM, etc. All things, that (bound together) simply are technically not possible. And the new rendering process (if coming) wont change the technical problems itself. You still need to reach 85fps at least to reach high quality Oculus Experience (which is the priority aim for the devs to make that happen).

Edited October 30, 2014 by 7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone

[DD_bongodriver]

of course this is all your own subjective opinion, clearly you aren't a big fan.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Well , if it's only around twelve DK2 users here it's because BoS doesn't support Rift yet. Once we get native support and it turns out to be playable (by that I mean no stutter or loss of tracking , not spotting contacts at large distances) we will see more DK2 users on the forum.

 

There is quite a few Rift owners playing Elite:Dangerous , and they have same equipment as flight simmers. Hotas and all. Some of them will most likely buy BoS when the word spreads.

 

Don't be so negative Stub, soon you will be able to try out your DK2 in BoS , who knows , maybe you will like it regardless of the low resolution. I really wonder sometimes why you bought DK in the first place , and why you didn't sell it already if you think it's so bad

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I don't even know what your talking about any more. There is no SLI problem they have a solution it's rendering one of the 2 POV's per card in SLI. It going to have a even lower frame delay then a single card. Last I read they shipped 100k DK2 as announced by Mark Zuckerberg in a recent interview.  

 

Crescent bay is 90hz and they are using a single card. Funny the graphics don't look like shit cartoon to me: http://www.roadtovr.com/epic-games-share-insights-optimizing-showdown-90-fps-oculus-rift-crescent-bay-prototype/

 

I really think you are spreading more misinformation than anything else.  But keep hating. We'll all enjoy it and you can drink your hateraid. 

Edited October 31, 2014 by driftaholic

[Herne]

Well , if it's only around twelve DK2 users here it's because BoS doesn't support Rift yet. Once we get native support and it turns out to be playable (by that I mean no stutter or loss of tracking , not spotting contacts at large distances) we will see more DK2 users on the forum.

 

There is quite a few Rift owners playing Elite:Dangerous , and they have same equipment as flight simmers. Hotas and all. Some of them will most likely buy BoS when the word spreads.

 

Don't be so negative Stub, soon you will be able to try out your DK2 in BoS , who knows , maybe you will like it regardless of the low resolution. I really wonder sometimes why you bought DK in the first place , and why you didn't sell it already if you think it's so bad

I bought IL2 BOS back in September, I saw it on steam and didn't notice at that time that it was still in Beta, TBH the only reason I bought it was because I was looking for a DK2 compatible Flight Sim, and the quickest of searches for DK2 and IL2 BOS gave me some hits . . . . shame I didn't read them.

 

Until DK2 is implemented though my only experience of IL2 BOS has been as a gunner. I won't even try to fly until the DK2 is implemented. Most of my game time goes into Elite Dangerous which really is a fantastic rift experience.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Being reargunner in IL2 or Stuka should be interesting experience in Rift, until you get shot up that is

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

Well , if it's only around twelve DK2 users here it's because BoS doesn't support Rift yet. Once we get native support and it turns out to be playable (by that I mean no stutter or loss of tracking , not spotting contacts at large distances) we will see more DK2 users on the forum.

 

There is quite a few Rift owners playing Elite:Dangerous , and they have same equipment as flight simmers. Hotas and all. Some of them will most likely buy BoS when the word spreads.

 

Don't be so negative Stub, soon you will be able to try out your DK2 in BoS , who knows , maybe you will like it regardless of the low resolution. I really wonder sometimes why you bought DK in the first place , and why you didn't sell it already if you think it's so bad

 

I dont want to bother or spread misinformation. The reason I bought it was to make up my evaluation. And this is currently: Laggy tracking (still) no 360 tracking capability (Yes, crescent bay has it -> they saw it on the morpheus) and the low resolution. 

 

So, what to do again:

1.) Need to implement it in a game, that runs on the native screen res (preferrably 4k due to optics issues, still experienced in crescent bay by the way) running with 90fps.

What possibilities: SLI/Xfire ... sorry, for top notch games, the SLI/Xfire, even in the new mode, not serves real seperate rendering for the right and left image. Triple will also not render for 3 monitors without any downsides. It currently has to do with all the PC hardware architecture, that this isnt going to work. Same as SLI/Xfire now. The idea behind it lacks of possibilities to make that happen without any downsides. It got better, but still isnt high fidelity.

Games with a lot of tiny bits still even look bad on crescent bay. And it lacks the possibilities to fire a 4k display with 4k. BoS? Perhaps, as it is graphically not that demanding. Let us take a StarCitizen with high poly counts and big textures in a streaming environment....Besides streaming tech has its downsides, the current hardware parts and its busses are not sufficient. This is, what tech guys tell the industry since years. But guess what: They will milk the cow step by step....as always! That is the nature of that business and it will take some more years to accomplish. And noone of the tech guys claim that to be wrong. It WILL take a while and that is all I am saying

 I am not mad or dont like DK2. The opposite is the case. As I am a guy, that likes testing such things on and on, it is an investment, that I havent regretted. But it simply lacks of most important things, that the scientists for that project found out about the tech. 

 

2.) So, referring to 1.) a massive AAA title or a sim title will simply tend to be not serving the fps needed, even with SLI. And BoS is currently not, what I refer to, as the models are fine, but themap is aweful in comparison to CloD. And it lacks of many things, that would squeeze out more power. As it is pretty emty, everything can be fine. But that is not a measure point to rely on.

 

3.) Probably think of side by side 3d and if it is the technique to go.

 

4.) The implementation of G-Sync or better the open standard for freesync is probably a thing to consider to get rid of some issues, where it is close.

 

And again, driftaholic: I do not spread misinformation, nor do I hate the Oculus. In both points, the opposite is the case! And the only thing, why you hate what I say is, that you probably dream too much instead of evaluating, what the current tech can serve. Nevertheless, I will continue to say in these days: Make other things possible or you lose community! And that is not only triple screen setup, but also many other content issues, lack of possibilities, etc. 

 

I mean: We should come back to the game and I currently do not know a lot of people that say: YEAH, let us play BoS...  That is, what currently is the biggest problem. We will see, but the chances currently are not that good in my opinion. But in this case I must say: I am not a very good informed flight simmer nor am I very good in it. But I open my eyes and see people deinstalling already or waiting for November, where we possibly see, if it continues or dies.  

 

So, please: As this is not my mothers language, it may sound offensive, but it just should sound honest. If you are the kind of guy, that makes every post against sth a hater post, it is your personal problem. My advice: Read the infos and not read between the lines, because you are totally wrong in your evaluation. I am fine, I have a smile on my face and write something about the Rift and the unnecessary implementation priorization in this game. And I stated, that we have other problems in my opinion from essentially keeping the community playing that game. And that has priority in my eyes.

 

In love, Stubi!

[VR-DriftaholiC]

If you're tracking was laggy It more likely they your PC wasn't able to handle it properly or the software didn't implement timewarp or other important features.  

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

If you're tracking was laggy It more likely they your PC wasn't able to handle it properly or the software didn't implement timewarp or other important features.  

Short answer: ROFL! It still has lagg issues: It has input lagg!!! There is no stutter, there is significant lagg, when moving head fast! Why: Camera is slow and the program is not slim enough!  Laggy doesnt mean stutter! INPUT LAGG!! Oh man, the simpliest things...

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Short answer: ROFL! It still has lagg issues: It has input lagg!!! There is no stutter, there is significant lagg, when moving head fast! Why: Camera is slow and the program is not slim enough!  Laggy doesnt mean stutter! INPUT LAGG!! Oh man, the simpliest things...

 

You must have some issue on your end because myself and several friends who also have DK2 have no issue with INPUT LAG. However we also have fairly powerful PC's. One even has Oculus latency tester as he actually develops. I'm really trying to be subjective and not a fanboy here. It's just that your report goes against what the majority say.

Edited November 3, 2014 by driftaholic

[Matt]

Short answer: ROFL! It still has lagg issues: It has input lagg!!! There is no stutter, there is significant lagg, when moving head fast! Why: Camera is slow and the program is not slim enough!  Laggy doesnt mean stutter! INPUT LAGG!! Oh man, the simpliest things...

I'm not someone who would defend the DK2 that much, but for me, there's no lag whatsoever when using the DK2. At least not in those games which i tried it with. Any specific games/demos you're having issues with? Otherwise i would assume it's a problem with yout system, not with the DK2.

[JG27_Chivas]

I have no input lag with the DK2, but its still not good enough in other respects.  Which is the reason its a prototype, and not a consumer version.  Its impossible to gauge the amount of success VR will have until after the first consumer version specs are known.   Even then each successive consumer version will be an improvement over the last.   The initial VR hardware will likely be a success, with a portion of the gaming community depending on the game software, along with several other industries other than gaming, again depending on the quality, and resource needs of the software.   The total VR market will become successively larger, as the VR hardware, system hardware, and software improves.

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

I'm not someone who would defend the DK2 that much, but for me, there's no lag whatsoever when using the DK2. At least not in those games which i tried it with. Any specific games/demos you're having issues with? Otherwise i would assume it's a problem with yout system, not with the DK2.

Move your head fast and you will notice, that the view is slower adjusting than you look. And that is nothing that one individual notice. My PC is quite okay (probably far above average with new top notch components, watercooling, overclocked, ... I mean, it is worth several thousands currently....I guess my PC is okay).

 

You have a serious input lag of tracking means several milliseconds. Perhaps some not notice, but Palmer said, that they still have issues with that. You always have a slight disconnection between your real movement and the ingame movements (tested in various demos). Just go into the common Oculus World Demo and move fast... That was the first experience that some told me before I got it (some clanmates could test it, before I got my hands on it. And this and the resolution was the things, that they claimed as well. Never personally heard of anyone until now, that really denied this obvious fact.

 

@Chivas: You are right with the development (I mean: Sure they wont go backwards). But

1.) it is a dev kit (means for developers or just for testing and it not represents the consumer version) -> That means: Devs should work with it, but NOT need to publish as fast as possible to serve guys, who not bought this DK2 for the reason it is meant to be...just because they want -> Other problems are more obvious and is currently preventing many people of the older and new communities around flight sims to take hands on this game here -> So, they should priorize other things. Otherwise we only have a dozen or 2 people, that got their wish served, while literally the whole community waits to get a more polished game with essential options....

2.) technically they will be able to produce a good Oculus Consumer version -> no doubt (Fairly easy with the new funds and foundation). Question is more: When will graphic intensive games (e.g. AAA games) serve support or better...built towards the Oculus directly (because not all games just can live with a crappy port of the Oculus support -> they need to develop for it, as Palmer also stated -> so, just making a game capable of firing up an Oculus is the ultimate failure in most cases...as Palmer also says -> games must be designed with several things in mind to make them work as good experience and not just "eyecatcher")? When will the other hardware be fast enough to fire it? In the current steps and with current design of PCs in general, we have several problems, that we will face and most of them wont be simply solved with a new hardware in the current fashion. There need to be changes in the architecture (already in the mind of several hardware engineers, but still far in the future.

 

So, even when the Oculus could live with the current res in the newest version (which I doubt for a good experience), we still need to get several things accomplished. And especially the 85Hz, due to their scientific studies for perception working correctly and reducing motion sickness to a low level, is a goal to reach. So, please run a game at 85-90fps to meet the native screen, which is already built for that, and you will see, that even the biggest graphics card not run that. SLI/Xfire? -> probably! New seperated rendering techniques? -> necessary to achieve. BUT: Many games like Arma wont serve 90 Hz, even when you build the best PC ever! Reason: Servers pull you down in fps...no matter what your PC is able to do. 

 

Nevertheless, a 1440p resolution possibly can reach it here and there. And BoS is not really a big deal. Problem simply is the resolution with magnifying optics STILL (even in the newest version) are noticable quite well. About half of the interviewed guests on the demo still said, that they must work on res. Ultimately, this ends up in a 4k display. Currently the industry FIRST has to develop a small 4 screen with high refresh rates AND low input lag (which isnt the case in ordinary mobile phone displays, even if they are pimped! Simply a technical problem over all.

 

So: When will Oculus make sense? As soon as they accomplish the 3 pillars not only with their hardware, but also have the other hardware working for it. And that still needs serious time (probably the first consumer version will be thrown out aside from Palmers advice and perfection and it wont meet, what Palmer would like. Perhaps version 3...or...4). Until then...well...serious gamers and guys with significant technical knowledge and passion for such things....will still just take it as an effect maschine and not for a serious gaming gear. 

 

It is like people buying all those crappy headsets with surround sound and such....NO plan and no knowledge....but they bought gaming keyboards, gaming mice, gaming headsets....sorry, I am out of that debile state and can fairly evaluate precisely, as this is, what I do the whole freetime!

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Honestly I think the software end of it is the major limiting factor. Video cards are just not allowing low level access to oculus drivers and many software devs aren't implementing time warp and other important features. Bit I still firmly believe that the 1440p/90hz CV1 will be better than playing on my 4k display. I'm also confident that a GTX-980 will be capable of that if the software is optimised. 

[JG27_Chivas]

Interesting interview on Youtube with the Gaijin developer of WT on VR and the Oculus Rift. 

 

 

He stresses that much higher resolutions, lower latencies, higher frame rates, better VR hardware, system hardware, and software are required for a decent VR experience.  Which all the hardware software developers are quite aware of.

 

For good reason, most of the major players are now investing heavily into VR/AR, because they see the huge potential, fully understanding it will probably take time before the hardware/software and pricepoint is accessible to the masses. 

 

Intel/AMD/Nvidia are now optimizing their hardware/drivers and working with VR hardware developers to make it even better in the future.    It will be difficult to drive complex combat flight sims, but having seen the massive immersion of the early prototypes, I know I will invest in a very highend system after the first OR consumer version is released, probably late next year.  There are many problems to solve, but I'm confident the next versions of System/VR hardware and System/VR software will drive the frames required at a decent enough resolution for early adopters to enjoy the VR flight sim experience.