New update.

[Afwastus]

Autopilot has been replaced by aim assist to keep Albert the AI busy. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[Trident_109]

Wrong on your first premise - that I don't understand that flight simulation is a leisure pursuit. I spend hours every week on it so I can assure you that I get the point.

 

Your second premise that the fact of lots of people not enjoying their EA experience, though you offer no statistical analysis merely anecdotal, is a problem does not ipso facto lay that problem at 777's door.  Enjoyment or the lack of it is a personal not corporate responsibility. 777 are providing the tools that they planned and advertised long ago.

.

 

Frankly I think what they planned and advertized regarding the campaign was vague at best.... kind of like 2 day access for early adopters. Sure we had early access but never did they formally state "two days" until the game was set out to the masses so legally they were right. But by the spirit of the advertized EA they were disingenuous. Advertizing a 'tiered EA' instead of a 'blanket access' would have quelled all the misunderstanding. Had they been forth-coming in their campaign plans from the get go, I doubt they would have had as many investors. It's cheap and takes advantage of those who don't have the full picture until it's too late. How many times were the developers asked about the campaign and we'd get the old, "We'll reveal when we're ready and not before." Followed by, "Often times when we release information too soon there's a backlash from complainers."

 

Now, to have the means to gain access to parts of the game that have great interest to many of the community REMOVED WITHOUT explanation is insulting.

 

Maybe we should have a poll to see how many would have paid up front if they had known the contents and restrictions of the campaign system for BoS. I know I'd have thought much harder and longer about it..... probably not wasting my money.

[AbortedMan]

You chose the EA and the rules of combat were all laid out in front of you when you signed up and paid in. You do not get to choose how things are to be done. Constructive comments would be welcome over at 777 I feel sure but all the rest will, hopefully, fall on deaf ears. You seem to think that you have purchased a finished product and that you have consumer rights of redress or something. You bought a seat in the operating theatre, if you will, you can look at what the surgeons are doing but you don't get to interfere with their work.

 

I am very clear that what I paid for is an experience of EA and the final product when it's released. I am 100% satisfied with what I have at the moment. When the sim is released as a final product I can then decide whether I want to continue flying it or not.

No, these rules were not laid out when I signed up and paid in, but that's not the point you're presented with here...the point is people aren't happy with the decisions that have been made as of late and you're telling them to stop complaining about it...FYI, complaints are feedback. Just because you like what is being shoved down your throat, doesn't mean other people do. You can stay quiet and enjoy what you've been given, and that's fine...but how you can stand tall and lambaste others for not enjoying and being vocal in hopes to incite some change for something they don't like is absolutely beyond me.

 

Don't pull the "this is early access beta, it's not a final product, you knew what you were getting into" card...especially with me. I'm one of the guys that was scrambling every Friday update to un-break the MP server and ringing every developer's bell that I could find to get the new version up and running for people to play as quick as possible, then doing a fire drill with the mission editor to field the complaints and errors with the game that came with each new version. I know what a alpha/beta/development cycle is and what it experience it affords. The complaints you see now are not related to alpha/beta/development cycles, they're related to insanely dissatisfying design decisions based on the exact opposite of what this early access/beta customer experience metric has provided to the company.

 

...and of course we get to choose how things get done! If we hate it, we don't support it, we don't buy it, it dies...AND IT DOESN'T GET DONE. Do you think 777 would venture into this genre again with the same design choices based on what they've seen in the last couple days? Do you think any other company would? We are consumers...we speak with our wallets...some more intelligently than others, apparently.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

S!

 

And is getting worse and worse

 

 

 

Pretty disapointed

Frankly, if they limited this to just the Campaign, everyone would be happy; leave Mission building and MP alone.

[1./JG42Nephris]

AbortedMan you are leaving very well and resonable thoughts here.

Couldnt agree more.

BoS went of the rails within the passt weeks by bad decisions not by a bad game.

As the Devs stated nothing will change up to the release and most probably not even after it as they got their direction,

I fear the game will be crusified by game magazines, and this not cause the game would be bugged or bad.

Really hope I am wrong here, as I expect this to be the end of flight sim franchise for a longer time.

[LBR=H-Ostermann]

I wouldn't have bought into this "thing", whatever you want to call it. As was said by more than one, ambiguity is a great sales stratagem.

Buyer beware, so shame on me for being lulled into buying into this thing by the memory of what the IL2 name meant. This is nothing like what I expected from the IL2 brand. My fault for looking at the façade and believing it to go deeper than it does.  A continuation of IL2 this isn't, for there's nothing of the original in it.

[beepee]

The removal of time compression and auto pilot has the stink of micro transactions all over it.

 

This is just my personal opinion, but I WOULD rather pay for my weapon mods than grind for them. Bring on the microtransactions.

 

That way I can fly MP now, rather than in a months time.

 

When the SP campaign has been finalised upon release I will probably check it out. But MP is more interesting to me.

[Gambit21]

If I read this correctly, all of the normal servers now have aim assist? Or just in the campaign? If so, I have just permanently moved to expert. For MP. Aim assist is not, "normal," in 1942. Aim assist should be for light servers only.

What? You were playing on normal servers?

I guess we should have been calling you FrauMurf eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I kid of course

[Yakmaster]

No, these rules were not laid out when I signed up and paid in, but that's not the point you're presented with here...the point is people aren't happy with the decisions that have been made as of late and you're telling them to stop complaining about it...FYI, complaints are feedback. Just because you like what is being shoved down your throat, doesn't mean other people do. You can stay quiet and enjoy what you've been given, and that's fine...but how you can stand tall and lambaste others for not enjoying and being vocal in hopes to incite some change for something they don't like is absolutely beyond me.

 

Don't pull the "this is early access beta, it's not a final product, you knew what you were getting into" card...especially with me. I'm one of the guys that was scrambling every Friday update to un-break the MP server and ringing every developer's bell that I could find to get the new version up and running for people to play as quick as possible, then doing a fire drill with the mission editor to field the complaints and errors with the game that came with each new version. I know what a alpha/beta/development cycle is and what it experience it affords. The complaints you see now are not related to alpha/beta/development cycles, they're related to insanely dissatisfying design decisions based on the exact opposite of what this early access/beta customer experience metric has provided to the company.

 

...and of course we get to choose how things get done! If we hate it, we don't support it, we don't buy it, it dies...AND IT DOESN'T GET DONE. Do you think 777 would venture into this genre again with the same design choices based on what they've seen in the last couple days? Do you think any other company would? We are consumers...we speak with our wallets...some more intelligently than others, apparently.

 

Aborted Man players know about play SP to unlock mods in MP from the start. 

Just look at this poll from more then a year ago,

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/752-unlocking-mods-solo-career/?p=13747

even zak posts in there that they will maybe redesigned it in future depending on EA.

 

So year after, loot of players buying game, so that must mean they like this option, that's why devs are maybe now surprised as in their mined players/buyers know how unlocks will work from start and still buy game.

But it seams loot of players buy pre order and didnt even know how this will work with unlocks, just see 2nd post in that poll, guy saying hell not buy game if it has this but he still buy the game by the look of gold bar next to his nick   

Edited October 7, 2014 by Yakmaster

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I have done fine in the Expert servers but Normal is a good place for furballing practice which I have historically be poor at.

 

My intention is to join a squad after release, fight in Expert and continue to train (mostly solo) in the Normal servers. The recent design decisions and aimbot are just forcing me to move sooner if it is implemented.

 

Nonetheless, I probably would look pretty decent in a skirt if you could tolerate my hairy legs

[BraveSirRobin]

So year after, loot of players buying game, so that must mean they like this option, that's why devs are maybe now surprised as in their mined players/buyers know how unlocks will work from start and still buy game.

 

 

Look at the poll numbers.  People did not like this design.

[AbortedMan]

 

Aborted Man players know about play SP to unlock mods in MP from the start. 

Just look at this poll from more then a year ago,

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/752-unlocking-mods-solo-career/?p=13747

even zak posts in there that they will maybe redesigned it in future depending on EA.

 

So year after, loot of players buying game, so that must mean they like this option, that's why devs are maybe now surprised as in their mined players/buyers know how unlocks will work from start and still buy game.

But it seams loot of players buy pre order and didnt even know how this will work with unlocks, just see 2nd post in that poll, guy saying hell not buy game if it has this but he still buy the game by the look of gold bar next to his nick   

 

This is a poll by a moderator, not a developer, and even he states right here that this was a conceptual speculation (even though Rama states there is no speculation, there's clearly speculated criteria on the scope of unlocks in MP in his post).

 

The poll clearly shows people do not want to be obligated to play SP to unlock loadouts...but it was clearly not heeded...so wtf is the point of the poll in the first place? A lot of good it did the community. Furthermore, I remember a poll a very long time ago gauging interest on the next aircraft to be added to BoS and the P-40 won by a longshot--where's our P-40 if we're counting polls so heavily?

 

My god, If this is the notice of the SP/MP unlocks "feature" we got...this makes "fine print" look as big as the heads on Mt. Rushmore. 

[Yakmaster]

He(Rama) was not moderator at that time,

 

But with time some players/fanboys tryed to make it like its misunderstanding or language problem, unlocks will be only SP for sure... and that for sure contributed to confusion, and yes maybe devs didnt say it clear enought to clear confusions as more buyers better for them, but they can now say that they sayed that SP will be only way to unlock stuff for MP ...

 

regarding poll numbers I remenber loft saying poll with less then 1000 vots for somthing dosent mather   

Edited October 7, 2014 by Yakmaster

[Afwastus]

yes maybe devs didnt say it clear enought to clear confusions as more buyers better for them   

 

And that's an acceptable business practice? To rely on ambiguity to get people to buy your product and then claim clarity when there was none? In most countries, that is considered to be rather poor behavior and it is generally not a practice reputable companies engage in.

 

I mean, all other things aside, are you seriously going to argue that customers feeling tricked or lied to is an alright or an acceptable outcome?

 

At best we can call it a miscommunication between the developers and the players and at worst we can speculate on whether it was willful, knowledgeable deceit.

 

How else do we end up with an entire forum and community full of people who completely misunderstood what the game was about? Granted, I suppose we could go with the "flight simmers" are morons theory and assume that in the time since the game was announced, the flight sim community somehow failed at any point to read or understand what the developers were saying.

 

At least the developers could be like Amazon and let people choose "no longer needed/wanted or different from website description" (those are actual return options which Amazon will honor if you buy anything from them) to return the game for a refund.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[Yakmaster]

...

How else do we end up with an entire forum and community full of people who completely misunderstood what the game was about? Granted, I suppose we could go with the "flight simmers" are morons theory and assume that in the time since the game was announced, the flight sim community somehow failed at any point to read or understand what the developers were saying.

 

I would say some in sim comunity were desperat for some good sim and tought this is it, not seing signals they were geting from devs 

[Afwastus]

So how did these "some people" suddenly hide the truth from everyone else and why didn't the developers stop them?

 

Was there some secret group of "hardcore flight simmers" who went around hiding posts from the developers?

 

If you gave me the task to make sure that the flight sim community didn't think this was a flight sim I would simply have a giant banner in size 96 font on the forums and in the game description when you go to the website that said "THIS IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE A FLIGHT SIM!!!

 

I guarantee you that would have made the message more than clear to any potential customers.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

A lot of you guys really make me laugh. You actually think that because you splashed nearly 100 bucks on this EA that you somehow have entitlement to stipulate how things should be. 777 alone have that entitlement and your money gives you a ringside seat to the construction site as the edifice goes up. Your comments on the work are welcome by the crews doing the work but it's their show and they call the shots, it's their business and they have the right and responsibility to direct things how they wish.

 

If you spent half the energy that you do on the whining on actually flying the sim, and trying to enjoy it whilst you do so, you would have unlocked everything by now that you need for MP.

 

I mean for the love of whatever God you believe in, stop behaving like brats and get on with the job of playing through the EA as it is given. You chose it, I did too, and I am enjoying it loads.

Lets put it like this... If this was not early release and I bought the game post release. It would suck with the current unlock system. If nobody complains the developers think the idea is cool. At least this is constructive feedback.

[AbortedMan]

And that's an acceptable business practice? To rely on ambiguity to get people to buy your product and then claim clarity when there was none? In most countries, that is considered to be rather poor behavior and it is generally not a practice reputable companies engage in.

 

I mean, all other things aside, are you seriously going to argue that customers feeling tricked or lied to is an alright or an acceptable outcome?

 

At best we can call it a miscommunication between the developers and the players and at worst we can speculate on whether it was willful, knowledgeable deceit.

 

How else do we end up with an entire forum and community full of people who completely misunderstood what the game was about? Granted, I suppose we could go with the "flight simmers" are morons theory and assume that in the time since the game was announced, the flight sim community somehow failed at any point to read or understand what the developers were saying.

 

At least the developers could be like Amazon and let people choose "no longer needed/wanted or different from website description" (those are actual return options which Amazon will honor if you buy anything from them) to return the game for a refund.

Was going to respond, but you said exactly what I was going to, so it's worth saying twice^.

[Pizzicato]

You bought a seat in the operating theatre, if you will, you can look at what the surgeons are doing but you don't get to interfere with their work.

 

Your analogy is hopelessly wrong. We're not passive third parties - we're customers who bought a product. The fact that it's still a work in progress doesn't invalidate our right to have an opinion on the direction that it's taking. 

 

For those of us that feel that what was initially advertised is not consistent with the current direction that we're seeing, there is a valid grievance. As customers of a company, we are within our rights to voice our concerns and frustrations.

 

 

Exactly to do with a clear understanding of the relationship that existed between myself and 777 when I paid $95 in July 2013. Neither do I whine and mince like a lot of the people here. If I don't rate the sim when it is finished I won't cry about it, simply won't fly it. Get a life and man up!

 

stop behaving like brats and get on with the job of playing through the EA as it is given.

 

Using name calling and childish jibes at people's masculinity as a way of trying to shame people into changing their position is pretty much the weakest form of internet "discussion". It strongly suggests that you don't actually have any valid counter-arguments.

 

This seems to be backed up by your "I'm enjoying the sim, so you should just shut up and enjoy it too" attitude. It completely misses the point that many people came to this sim (as the original and recent press releases referred to it) with an expectation of a certain degree of realism. This expectation is mirrored in the press previews, too:

 

http://il2sturmovik.com/media/press/

 

For many of us, the various immersion-breaking design decisions that have made their way into the current build run very much counter to the original expectations that were laid out. More to the point, they make it so we can't enjoy the sim. Telling us to "get on with the job of playing [it]" (emphasis mine because it does feel like a chore) is ridiculously naive, That being the case, it's not unreasonable that those of us that shelled out $100 with the expectation of a certain level of fidelity now feel letdown and/or cheated by the direction in which the final product is going.

 

If you don't share that disappointment, that's great. If you're 100% with what you've received to date, that's wonderful. You're just as entitled to be happy with what you received as the rest of us are to be deeply unhappy with what we're getting for our money.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Pizzicato

[=69.GIAP=Shvak]

The adding of aim assist is 100% compatible with a console release. It should not be in normal mode and should only be available in tutorial mode (easy). The fact that it has been introduced is a clear indication that the War Thunder style of play is going to be encouraged.

IL2 BoS went from a sim to a farce in under two weeks...

[SKG51_robtek]

IL2-Sturmovik was a brand name which projected a wwii-cfs as detailed and challenging as the computers at that time allowed.

The first successor tried to follow this path and was shot down by the shortage of money and patience of 1c and the too high standards of the devs.

The second successor now puts shame to the brand name, the only thing challenged is the endurance of the people who thought of getting a real IL2 successor.

[Madov]

IL2-Sturmovik was a brand name which projected a wwii-cfs as detailed and challenging as the computers at that time allowed.

The first successor tried to follow this path and was shot down by the shortage of money and patience of 1c and the too high standards of the devs.

The second successor now puts shame to the brand name, the only thing challenged is the endurance of the people who thought of getting a real IL2 successor.

 

Cliffs of Dover failed due to the main man not having the foresight to work alongside a competent project manager who could kick his butt when required. Oleg and Ilya dropped the ball and 777 have picked it up and are now running with it. May not be in the direction you like, but it's the direction that they want to go in. There is no shame in how they have played their hand and if you don't want to continue watching the ball being played you can always switch off the tv and do something else.

[SKG51_robtek]

Cliffs of Dover failed due to the main man not having the foresight to work alongside a competent project manager who could kick his butt when required. Oleg and Ilya dropped the ball and 777 have picked it up and are now running with it. May not be in the direction you like, but it's the direction that they want to go in. There is no shame in how they have played their hand and if you don't want to continue watching the ball being played you can always switch off the tv and do something else.

If you are satisfied with WT professional, fine.

There are lots of virtual pilots which had mastered IL2-1946 and wanted to continue and to be challenged again, with better physics, FM, DM plus of course better sound and graphics.

But those people didn't want to loose the possibilities that IL-2 1946 had, i.e. the FMB and all the other game options that were available.

Those are the people here which are disappointed by the thing, that BoS has become during the developement.

Edited October 7, 2014 by robtek

[Madov]

If you are satisfied with WT professional, fine.

There are lots of virtual pilots which had mastered IL2-1946 and wanted to continue and to be challenged again, with better physics, FM, DM plus of course better sound and graphics.

But those people didn't want to loose the possibilities that IL-2 1946 had, i.e. the FMB and all the other game options that were available.

Those are the people here which are disappointed by the thing, that BoS has become during the developement.

 

 

Is War Thunder Professional a new title? Never hear of it. I am certainly one of 'those people' and I started with the demo in 2001. I feel no disappointment as you suggest and it may be that there are many others in the same category for whom you don't speak either.

[von_Tom]

Those are the people here which are disappointed by the thing, that BoS has become during the developement.

 

 

It remains a flight combat sim and everything that has been stated by the developers has come to fruition.  The only clarity has been in respect of unlocks being in SP only.  This could perhaps have been made clearer from the outset but even so everyone knew unlocks would be a feature.

 

The ME/FMB will come in time then everyone can play with it.  Just like any other flight sim before it I doubt there will be a host of new people using it but just the ones who used to make missions before.

 

The current complaints centre on:

 

1.  People don't want to play SP; and

2.  People can no longer game the game to get unlocks easily and without effort

 

SP is whatever you make of it.  Other campaigns have just been a case of fly 1 mission, next mission, next mission etc.  The missions are enjoyable in their own right but the campaign per se never gets you really caring about your pilot apart from at a superficial level.  SP missions can help you hone your skills rather than just take off and pootle around Stalingrad at just under contrail height waiting for the next victim. 

 

Realism or immersion is what the individual makes of the game.  Compare a campaign mission with a freie jagd over Stalingrad on the Syndicate server.  The campaign mission is more "real" to me.

 

if people do not want to play SP they can play with the stock options - these are very effective anyway.  Nothing is stopping people playing with the game as the developers have intended from the outset.  Somewhere else on these forums Jason has posted that he is working with 3rd party folks to develop additional content - this suggests to me that the campaign is to some extent a placeholder for what will come after release.  Personally I don't have a problem with that.

 

I have to applaud the idea of x16 + autopilot.  Very cunning indeed!  Shame it was promoted really as it lead to the changes. I can understand exactly why it was chopped out as it is gaming the game i.e. doing things other than what the game was designed for with the gameplay the developers had in mind.

 

On the other hand I can understand frustration with some elements eg current inability to tweak settings and so on.  Still, the game is early in development still and I have high hopes a lot more is to come.  On that point I cannot think of any flight sim that was perfect on release.  It's just that expectations seem to be much much higher now, with almost rabid hysteria when the expectations turn out out to be misplaced.

 

And Madov, +1 to each of your comments.

 

Hood

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

I would like to see how long it takes someone to unlock everything for an HE-111 with the current 2x time compression, keep in mind that's a single plane. In my experience a successful mission run at 2x speed in a 111 takes no less than an average of 45 minutes, that's the low end of average on expert, full mission settings.

 

Add to that all of the attempts which end in failure and you're looking at somewhere between 10 and 15 hours to unlock everything in that plane alone. Add the PE-2 to that, the JU-87 and the IL-2, all slow going aircraft and you'll start to see a problem. Add the fast movers like the fighters and all told 777 is asking for close to 100 hours out of all of us in repetitive SP missions before allowing us access to this content.

 

Maybe that seems like a good time to you but that sure as hell isn't what I signed up for.

 

There's nothing gaming the game about a 16x time compression and auto pilot, it's no different than the fast travel systems found in every other open world game ever. It's there to get people to where they want to be, where the fun and excitement is. Game's are all about fun, what's fun about alt tabbing and waiting the 20 minutes to get to an objective?

Edited October 7, 2014 by 72ndSulaco

[heinkill]

If we hate it, we don't support it, we don't buy it, it dies...

 

Actually no. As an early access buyer, you already bought the high priced version of the game. They already have your money, so your complaints are redundant and any future purchases of content you may make are low in value compared to what you have already invested. You are not the target audience anymore.

 

These design decisions are being made in light of future buyers and the best interests of a profitable game. There is speculation that the autopilot and time compression was turned off in single player because the devs plan to put in place a micropayment system later with 'pay for unlocks' and this workaround/cheat impacts that plan. If true, of course they need to stop the workaround - if it was my product I would do the same.

 

A few hundred unhappy early access members will mean nothing when the devs ambition is to achieve hundreds of thousands of paying players buying the various versions of the game after release.

 

Not defending the decisions, just pointing out the reality.

 

It would really surprise me if all this unhappiness actually damages the game PR at launch, because:

 

- the game is very well coded, largely bug free

- looks great and flies well; has better FMs than other 'flight games'

- is scaleable for casual or hard core flight gamers

- has both (novel) single player campaign, highly functional QMB, and (standard) multiplayer elements

- nice GUI, cutscenes

- cool explosions and effects, pilot animations etc

- eight to ten flyable aircraft, each with multiple weapons/armour mods and skins, fighters, ground attack, bombers

- competent bot AI

- rarely featured historical theatre of conflict and units - no German aircraft carriers in the Pacific

- reasonable starting price at 50 bucks for the standard edition 

 

I know that you can critique every one of these points as a unhappy Founder, but that isn't the point. This is what a new player without any history in the game will see in December 2014, why wouldn't they love it, and it be a success?

 

H

Edited October 7, 2014 by heinkill

[Streiff]

I would like to see how long it takes someone to unlock everything for an HE-111 with the current 2x time compression, keep in mind that's a single plane. In my experience a successful mission run at 2x speed in a 111 takes no less than an average of 45 minutes, that's the low end of average on expert, full mission settings.

 

Add to that all of the attempts which end in failure and you're looking at somewhere between 10 and 15 hours to unlock everything in that plane alone. Add the PE-2 to that, the JU-87 and the IL-2, all slow going aircraft and you'll start to see a problem. Add the fast movers like the fighters and all told 777 is asking for close to 100 hours out of all of us in repetitive SP missions before allowing us access to this content.

 

Maybe that seems like a good time to you but that sure as hell isn't what I signed up for.

 

There's nothing gaming the game about a 16x time compression and auto pilot, it's no different than the fast travel systems found in every other open world game ever. It's there to get people to where they want to be, where the fun and excitement is. Game's are all about fun, what's fun about alt tabbing and waiting the 20 minutes to get to an objective?

 

 

Going by those calculations it would take me roughly 1 year to complete the SP (2 hours a week). Lets cut that in half to be fair, it then comes down to roughly 6 months. Sounds reasonable dont you think? 

 

 

Everything put together, graphics preset, only two difficulty's, forced single player, taking the choice away from the individual player, in other words, micromanagement, tells me that the devs are desperately trying to eliminate any and all complaints, bad reviews etc that might occur due to "stupid" costumers not knowing their a** from their elbow, this is what they said themselves so im not making it up. Well, they are of to a good start.

 

It reeks of devs been in this business way to long and are carrying a bag full of bad memory's of (stupid) costumer demands. By going down this route they have not only taken away the ability for the player to choose how to play a game but they also eliminated the burden of having to deal with well known wishes/demands of the flight sim community. This is how they cut through all the red tape so to speak, only problem is that they create an entirely new wall of red tape by doing so.

 

Maby it is like said before, the veterans of flight sims are undesirables in their future plan.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Baron

[SYN_Blackrat]

Oh, but I have a life. That´s the problem, to little time to grind to have fun on line.  Devs: please reconcider this.

 

Who the hell told you you have a life?????

[=LD=Hethwill]

If you are satisfied with WT professional, fine.

There are lots of virtual pilots which had mastered IL2-1946 and wanted to continue and to be challenged again, with better physics, FM, DM plus of course better sound and graphics.

But those people didn't want to loose the possibilities that IL-2 1946 had, i.e. the FMB and all the other game options that were available.

Those are the people here which are disappointed by the thing, that BoS has become during the developement.

 

 

There are no concerns about the flight acuity of the BoS model. Century ahead of grandpa IL-2 and bringing WT pro here does really make you an ignorant regarding many aspects, no matter if the devs put up the xp and aim.

 

FMB ( as per RoF model ) is more powerful albeit more complex than that of IL-2.

 

So far we have what we wished for.

 

Only issue being discussed is the SP logic which bugs me. I know that the Devs wish us to experience the Campaign and make it a fruitful experience which can translate into the game as a whole. They decided on campaign XP instead of the old way of having to pass the mission ( or rinse and repeat until you do ).

 

Locking the upgrades for MP is fishy but not a deterrent of gameplay. Bomber pilots suffer the most. They have to go through fighter galore and then the whole ordeal to get their bomb loads.

Edited October 7, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[Afwastus]

There is speculation that the autopilot and time compression was turned off in single player because the devs plan to put in place a micropayment system later with 'pay for unlocks' and this workaround/cheat impacts that plan.

 

 

If that's the case I feel that each member of the Unlock Hotfix Gruppe desrve the Knight's Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds for almost managing to saving the game from F2P hell.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[Zettman]

Tanks God I have already settled over to expert mode. I would not want to fly with "aim assist".

 

That said, I think it will attract more people to IL2 BoS. I for myself started with War Thunder Arcade (no joystick obviously) and made my way up to the WT FRB mode. At that point I already had a Joystick, Rudders and TrackIR. The step from WT FRB to IL2 BoS wasn't that big for me. Starting to play a simulator with no presim (softsims included) experince is difficult, so adding things like "aim assist" will help these new pilots. My guess is that the majority of the sim pilots is playing on expert mode anyway, so they won't be influenced by it.

 

S!

Zettman

[Finkeren]

Ugh! Nice with the quick fix to some of the bugs but those additions? Expert mode it is then.

 

This is a clear, unmistakable middle finger to the many community members who've been critical of the campaign. Not sure this is a wise move....

[Corto]

Sorry Developers, but at this point your "Game" ist only disappointing!!!

 

Not sure this is a wise move....

 The community is forced to play the heartless/ unrealitic campaign in real time/ 1/2 time! But on the other hand the community remember this, when they try to sell more plans and maps and and....

Edited October 7, 2014 by Corto

[Spinnetti]

In Soviet Russia, Game plays YOU!

[Yakmaster]

Actually no. As an early access buyer, you already bought the high priced version of the game. They already have your money, so your complaints are redundant and any future purchases of content you may make are low in value compared to what you have already invested. You are not the target audience anymore.

 

These design decisions are being made in light of future buyers and the best interests of a profitable game. There is speculation that the autopilot and time compression was turned off in single player because the devs plan to put in place a micropayment system later with 'pay for unlocks' and this workaround/cheat impacts that plan. If true, of course they need to stop the workaround - if it was my product I would do the same.

 

A few hundred unhappy early access members will mean nothing when the devs ambition is to achieve hundreds of thousands of paying players buying the various versions of the game after release.

 

Not defending the decisions, just pointing out the reality.

 

It would really surprise me if all this unhappiness actually damages the game PR at launch, because:

 

- the game is very well coded, largely bug free

- looks great and flies well; has better FMs than other 'flight games'

- is scaleable for casual or hard core flight gamers

- has both (novel) single player campaign, highly functional QMB, and (standard) multiplayer elements

- nice GUI, cutscenes

- cool explosions and effects, pilot animations etc

- eight to ten flyable aircraft, each with multiple weapons/armour mods and skins, fighters, ground attack, bombers

- competent bot AI

- rarely featured historical theatre of conflict and units - no German aircraft carriers in the Pacific

- reasonable starting price at 50 bucks for the standard edition 

 

I know that you can critique every one of these points as a unhappy Founder, but that isn't the point. This is what a new player without any history in the game will see in December 2014, why wouldn't they love it, and it be a success?

 

H

 

Exactly that 

[FZG_Merlin]

It remains a flight combat sim and everything that has been stated by the developers has come to fruition. The only clarity has been in respect of unlocks being in SP only. This could perhaps have been made clearer from the outset but even so everyone knew unlocks would be a feature.

 

....

 

if people do not want to play SP they can play with the stock options - these are very effective anyway. Nothing is stopping people playing with the game as the developers have intended from the outset. Somewhere else on these forums Jason has posted that he is working with 3rd party folks to develop additional content - this suggests to me that the campaign is to some extent a placeholder for what will come after release. Personally I don't have a problem with that.

 

....

 

Hood

Sorry but if you don't play MP and enjoy SP more, what do you care what loadouts or skins people use in MP ? I fail to understand your logic Edited October 7, 2014 by FZG_Immel

[CIA_Yankee_]

 

It would really surprise me if all this unhappiness actually damages the game PR at launch, because:

 

- the game is very well coded, largely bug free

- looks great and flies well; has better FMs than other 'flight games'

- is scaleable for casual or hard core flight gamers

- has both (novel) single player campaign, highly functional QMB, and (standard) multiplayer elements

- nice GUI, cutscenes

- cool explosions and effects, pilot animations etc

- eight to ten flyable aircraft, each with multiple weapons/armour mods and skins, fighters, ground attack, bombers

- competent bot AI

- rarely featured historical theatre of conflict and units - no German aircraft carriers in the Pacific

- reasonable starting price at 50 bucks for the standard edition 

 

I know that you can critique every one of these points as a unhappy Founder, but that isn't the point. This is what a new player without any history in the game will see in December 2014, why wouldn't they love it, and it be a success?

 

H

 

Agreed, and well said.

 

That said, we shouldn't take this as meaning they don't care at all about us founders. PR is an actual thing, after all, and I'm sure they're MUCH prefer to attract hordes of new players _AND_ please us founders.

 

And I think that they're still hoping that is going to happen, which is probably why they're working with 3rd parties to allow some modding. BoS has a really good core right now, BEFORE RELEASE, how fecking rare and awesome is that in a sim? What they need now is modders and third party developers to go in and make the sort of content that will satisfy us hardcore players, and they're golden (and to be clear, I think they are right to capitalize on modders... I'd rather the devs work on the core simulation and do the sort of things modders can't do).

 

Of course, they should definitely improve their PR, because that will also encourage more modders and content generators to contribute to the sim. So while you can understand what they're doing, they certainly should be going about it in a nicer way (explaining us their design decision, and helping us work around deal breakers).

 

Itkovian

[Afwastus]

It's fine, maybe if we play nice they will leave us a corner of the sandbox play in when the horde of 300,000+ mainstream gamers shows up. S!

[BlueHeron]

every realistic sim out there have time compression. even the professional onces.

 

because time matters to people

 

This!