New update.

[FZG_Merlin]

I guess the 16x time compression is a cheat since you get extra points for the long missions. Otherwise you can just accelerate the long mission into a short one and collect the extra score.

 

 

yeah. but the GPS on map or the aim helper isnt a cheat... 

 

herp derp

[Afwastus]

I think they should force people to take off from the ground, and warm up the engine for 30min before its ready. You know, its more realistic, and makes as much sense as forcing people to fly hundreds of kilometers of nav in 2x every freaking time..

 

I also feel it would be nice to have the game not let you fly on certain days, citing "mechanical failure".

 

Maybe, you could unlock better mechanics and parts by playing singe player when your planes actually work?

 

So if you're a lvl 1 pilot your mechanic is also lvl 1 and 25%of the time your plane will not start, but at lvl 12 your mechanic is now a mechanical god and your plane will start 90% of the time.

 

It would motivate people to play single player and it would give us something to work for, since everyone wants their plane to work most of the time.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[Freycinet]

Madov, don't go round calling people brats. Thank you.

 

You can make your point but don't start insulting people by getting personal.

 

It is not personal when it is not directed at a particular person. He refers to a group, so by definition it isn't "personal". You may not like his moniker but that is another issue.

[LukeFF]

 

 

think they should force people to take off from the ground, and warm up the engine for 30min before its ready.

 

The mechanics warmed up the engines for the pilots. 

[Afwastus]

I disagree with that feature though, it lets people unfairly game the system. What if I am much better at starting a plane than someone else or if I am dedicated enough to spend 30 minutes each mission warming up my engine, shouldn't I be rewarded for this?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Just flew for 20 minutes with 2x compression on to do a bombing run in a 111 only to be shot down by flak over the target. What a waste of time...

 

I'm almost glad as it saved me the 20+ minute return trip.

Edited October 6, 2014 by 72ndSulaco

[Afwastus]

It is not personal when it is not directed at a particular person. He refers to a group, so by definition it isn't "personal". You may not like his moniker but that is another issue.

 

Fair enough, I guess if someone were to say that all Swedes were assholes, I couldn't be offended or find it to be a personal slight.

 

After all they didn't personally attack me or say "Afwastus you are an asshole". As long as they just suggest that all Swedes are in some way bad or childish it's all in good taste. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[FZG_Merlin]

The mechanics warmed up the engines for the pilots. 

 

well, then we need more time on the ground for the plane walk around, and strapping ourselves inside the plane, ya know...

 

The point.. it flew so high above your head that it later boom zoomed you...

Edited October 6, 2014 by FZG_Immel

[oneeyeddog]

I guess the 16x time compression is a cheat since you get extra points for the long missions. Otherwise you can just accelerate the long mission into a short one and collect the extra score.

I think the extra points you get for 'long missions' are for taking off, Which I always tried to do . You get 30 extra pts for taking off. Once i took off and set my heading toward the first waypoint, I would go into AutoLevel and x16 until i reached the first waypoint. Not once did I ever encounter an enemy AC on the way to the 1st waypoint so I wasn't concerned about being attacked and shot down. I would use the same technique to approach the Target Area. Once i accomplished my objective I would repeat the Autolevel/x16  until i approached my airfield and I would then land. I never once considered what I was doing 'cheating' or working around the system. I was just trying to save a little time, thats all.

[Rjel]

Boy and here I thought we might have weathered the storm that was last weekend. I haven't had a chance to download the udate but I can't imagine the rational behind removing the 16x FF. On the other hand, so many people here, some posting in this thread, are the same ones who have been complaining that this sim isn't "sim" enough. If ever there was an unrealistic option it's 16x FF. I understand why it's wanted, even needed, but man we do argue both sides of the argument sometimes.

[viperrm64]

Oh my god just spent best part of this afternoon playing SP Campaign to get some unlocks and skins and then I read this about AP and time compression,WHAT THE **** is going on, it is the same old story, once they have got your money they do what the **** they like, forget about all the people that have been with this sim from the beginning. In my near 15 years of PC flight sim experience this once superb WWII Combat sim is going from bad to worse, somebody over at the devs needs to take the reigns and WHOAAAAAA!!!!! before we all stop playing what was once a great sim.

[Afwastus]

I was just trying to save a little time, thats all.

 

The logic appears to be that it's your fault if you have a life or prefer not to idle through games.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[FZG_Merlin]

Boy and here I thought we might have weathered the storm that was last weekend. I haven't had a chance to download the udate but I can't imagine the rational behind removing the 16x FF. On the other hand, so many people here, some posting in this thread, are the same ones who have been complaining that this sim isn't "sim" enough. If ever there was an unrealistic option it's 16x FF. I understand why it's wanted, even needed, but man we do argue both sides of the argument sometimes.

 

every realistic sim out there have time compression. even the professional onces.

 

because time matters to people

[SharpeXB]

Just flew for 20 minutes with 2x compression on to do a bombing run in a 111 only to be shot down by flak over the target. What a waste of time...

 

I'm almost glad as it saved me the 20+ minute return trip.

War is Hell...

[Afwastus]

War is Hell...

 

True, maybe another good idea would be a system that uninstalls your game upon death while also invalidating your game license?

 

That way people would be extremely afraid of death ingame and they would fly accordingly, it would also allow for more copies of the game to be sold.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[FZG_Merlin]

True, maybe another good idea would be a system that uninstalls your game upon death while also invalidating your game license?

 

That way people would be extremely afraid of death ingame and they would fly accordingly, it would also allow for more copies of the game to be sold.

 

Genius !

[Matt]

Just flew for 20 minutes with 2x compression on to do a bombing run in a 111 only to be shot down by flak over the target. What a waste of time...

 

I'm almost glad as it saved me the 20+ minute return trip.

 

Just flew a Fw 190 mission, shot down 6 planes, flew to "exit point" then landed just fine at the airfield, but the compass marker (which i hide usually) still wanted me to head in some other direction (away from all waypoints on the map). Since i was running out of fuel (and time..) i decided to "cancel mission" and got almost no reward at all.

 

Only wanted to get my historical 4x cannon loadout.

[Streiff]

Havent played the game since the campaign update and something tells me in going to play online with the 190 2 cannon variant. I just hope they dont ad a working supercharger to the unlock system. 

[FZG_Merlin]

Havent played the game since the campaign update and something tells me in going to play online with the 190 2 cannon variant. I just hope they dont ad a working supercharger to the unlock system. 

 

the MGFF are useless anyway. plenty of ammo in the 151's

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

War is Hell...

Sure is, that's why I prefer to play the video game variety, if they expect me to put an hour in per SP mission so they can sell me unlocks post release then they can sure as hell expect me to stop playing and recommending their game. 

 

Regardless of what you might think or have stated previously this decision of theirs takes absurdity to a whole new level. You're right though, they are the designers and they can design their product however they see fit but we're the players and we ultimately decide whether their product lives or dies. If they don't make something people want to play then no one will pay to play it. Simple as that. You can bet your ass that if they keep the unlock system as is (including no 16x time compression) that the reviews will be far less than positive (professional and player alike) ultimately the sales numbers will reflect that.

 

I think that might be one of the main issues here as well, as a community so dedicated to this sim we want to see it do well so that maybe in the future we'll see more content, missions, campaigns, theatres and airplanes. We love 777 and what they've created in the past and want to see that same spark reignited with this title but these new decisions are completely counter to all of that.

 

Thank god it's still alpha and there's time for them to (hopefully) adjust what they've got to a more solid and playable foundation for release.

[kendo]

You chose the EA and the rules of combat were all laid out in front of you when you signed up and paid in. You do not get to choose how things are to be done. Constructive comments would be welcome over at 777 I feel sure but all the rest will, hopefully, fall on deaf ears. You seem to think that you have purchased a finished product and that you have consumer rights of redress or something. You bought a seat in the operating theatre, if you will, you can look at what the surgeons are doing but you don't get to interfere with their work.

 

I am very clear that what I paid for is an experience of EA and the final product when it's released. I am 100% satisfied with what I have at the moment. When the sim is released as a final product I can then decide whether I want to continue flying it or not.

 

Unfortunately you miss the whole point that this is a leisure pursuit - something we are all presumably doing purely for enjoyment.

 

And if enough people - for whatever reason - are not enjoying it, then that is a problem.

 

Original il-2 allowed everyone to do whatever they wanted, to play the game in whatever way they saw fit. Pleasing your customers rather than antagonising them is pretty easy to understand.

Edited October 6, 2014 by kendo

[clayman]

"because time matters to people"

 

Sigh ... I've kept quiet up to today. I like all of us work, 40-50 hrs a week, school teacher. My wife and I have a severely handicapped 21 yr old, 3 years of age cognitively, constant care 24-7. We split shifts, she works nights, I work days. We have done this for 21 yrs, IL2 and its counterparts have helped me get through some of the worst parts over the last 13 years. Many of us may care for a loved one or are handicapped ourselves. TIME matters ...

 

I think you can figure out where I stand on these recent events.

 

Regards, clayman

Edited October 6, 2014 by clayman

[ACG_KaiLae]

That's the thing isn't it? People were playing the game in the way that they liked. 777 came along and took away that ability, which also extensively broke the online servers. This resulted in an argument where one server was then shut down. The massed proletariat, forced to slave away in unfun singleplayer by a uncaring developer bourgeoisie to reclaim the abilities they just had to play the game in the way that they liked, figured out that to avoid boring unfun play, you could simply let the AI handle it and come out ahead. The bourgeoisie responded by yelling "LET THEM EAT CAKE" and taking away that ability, so you are forced to slave away at the mind-numbing tediousness that is the current singleplayer campaign.

 

I mean, if single player wasn't just a way to do one quick battle after another, with each of the mission types having only about 5 or so variations, then it might not be bad. If it was a true campaign it might be fun. But it is, and it isn't, respectively, and being forced to play it - and worse, being apparently told that we need to eat our brussel sprouts and enjoy it because we know what is better for you - is infuriating people. I don't get it. The "I see what you're doing there, and I know better than you" attitude is not something you typically see in businesses to their customers. Best example/analogy would be PGI with mechwarrior online, and that isn't complimentary.

[Madov]

Unfortunately you miss the whole point that this is a leisure pursuit - something we are all presumably doing purely for enjoyment.

 

And if enough people - for whatever reason - are not enjoying it, then that is a problem.

 

Original il-2 allowed everyone to do whatever they wanted, to play the game in whatever way they saw fit. Pleasing your customers rather than antagonising them is pretty easy to understand.

 

 

Wrong on your first premise - that I don't understand that flight simulation is a leisure pursuit. I spend hours every week on it so I can assure you that I get the point.

 

Your second premise that the fact of lots of people not enjoying their EA experience, though you offer no statistical analysis merely anecdotal, is a problem does not ipso facto lay that problem at 777's door.  Enjoyment or the lack of it is a personal not corporate responsibility. 777 are providing the tools that they planned and advertised long ago.

 

I do not believe that it is 777's intention to ingratiate themselves with the ever changing whims of their customers, rather to build a desirable flight simulation product that can rightfully hold the IL2  name high and to take the tradition on to the next level. Just because life in ancient Rome was nothing but incest and wine doesn't mean that we have to follow suit today. If they build it people will come.

Edited October 6, 2014 by MADOV

[SYN_Bandy]

...The massed proletariat, forced to slave away in unfun singleplayer by an uncaring developer bourgeoisie to reclaim the abilities they just had to play the game in the way that they liked, figured out that to avoid boring unfun play, you could simply let the AI handle it and come out ahead. The bourgeoisie responded by yelling "LET THEM EAT CAKE" and taking away that ability, so you are forced to slave away at the mind-numbing tediousness that is the current singleplayer campaign.

 

Mixing proletariat and bougeosie with "let them eat cake", tisk, tisk.  Too many bloody mixed history metaphors there for my liking.  For you, no more x2 and its off to the gulag!!!

 

[and just how are you supposed to embed video here?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

Edited October 6, 2014 by SYN_Bandy

[falstaff]

 

Wrong on your first premise - that I don't understand that flight simulation is a leisure pursuit. I spend hours every week on it so I can assure you that I get the point.

 

Your second premise that the fact of lots of people not enjoying their EA experience, though you offer no statistical analysis merely anecdotal, is a problem does not ipso facto lay that problem at 777's door.  Enjoyment or the lack of it is a personal not corporate responsibility. 777 are providing the tools that they planned and advertised long ago.

 

 

Madov...tes, you can take the letter, and not the spirit of the law, but it doesn't really tell the whole story.

 

So I find this all a bit high horse and disingenuous.

 

Saying 'Enjoyment or the lack of it is a personal not corporate responsibility.' is a bit like calling sardines a kind of fish. It goes without saying. But in the real world, any company producing games want their customers to enjoy the product, if for no other reason than it produces further sales.

 

There is far more to games than simply 'providing tools', of course.

 

I do not believe that it is 777's intention to ingratiate themselves with the ever changing whims of their customers, rather to build a desirable flight simulation product that can rightfully hold the IL2  name high and to take the tradition on to the next level. Just because life in ancient Rome was nothing but incest and wine doesn't mean that we have to follow suit today. If they build it people will come.

 

 

 

This is all very grandiose and high falutin'....ingratiate...whimms...etc etc

 

These are not Roman Centurions holding the banner and marching with chins held high into the hinterland...or any such nonsense...but developers who deserve respect for that has been accomplished so far...and equally, would do be wise to listen to a concerned bunch of (lowly? ungrateful? hardly worthy?) customers.

 

I think most development houses have moved away from this sort of patronising belief-set, if it really ever existed...?

Edited October 6, 2014 by falstaff

[354thFG_Leifr]

Feels apt.

And with that, I shall make this my last post here.

 

 

[SharpeXB]

True, maybe another good idea would be a system that uninstalls your game upon death while also invalidating your game license?

 

That way people would be extremely afraid of death ingame and they would fly accordingly, it would also allow for more copies of the game to be sold.

Try Desastersoft?

[Gambit21]

A lot of you guys really make me laugh. You actually think that because you splashed nearly 100 bucks on this EA that you somehow have entitlement to stipulate how things should be. 777 alone have that entitlement and your money gives you a ringside seat to the construction site as the edifice goes up. Your comments on the work are welcome by the crews doing the work but it's their show and they call the shots, it's their business and they have the right and responsibility to direct things how they wish.

 

If you spent half the energy that you do on the whining on actually flying the sim, and trying to enjoy it whilst you do so, you would have unlocked everything by now that you need for MP.

 

I mean for the love of whatever God you believe in, stop behaving like brats and get on with the job of playing through the EA as it is given. You chose it, I did too, and I am enjoying it loads.

 

More or less my sentiments on the matter.

[dburne]

 

I do not believe that it is 777's intention to ingratiate themselves with the ever changing whims of their customers, rather to build a desirable flight simulation product that can rightfully hold the IL2  name high and to take the tradition on to the next level. Just because life in ancient Rome was nothing but incest and wine doesn't mean that we have to follow suit today. If they build it people will come.

 

Sorry but in my perception of BOS as it stands now, it is no successor to the IL-2 Franchise - far from it.

Not even close.

[Elanus]

 

 

Just flew a Fw 190 mission, shot down 6 planes, flew to "exit point" then landed just fine at the airfield, but the compass marker (which i hide usually) still wanted me to head in some other direction (away from all waypoints on the map). Since i was running out of fuel (and time..) i decided to "cancel mission" and got almost no reward at all.

 

 

You mean the yellow marker on the compass? That is wind direction AFAIK, not waypoint marker. If you landed at your home airfield and only had the option to cancel mission and not end it (as completed) it could be that you didn't taxi to the end of the runway (it worked for me once that way.

 

Cheers

[KoN_]

I have started the campaign today ... i would like to know where targets are without the silly icons or given a direction of enemy if seen , or turn to heading 320 bandits angles 2.... like they did in the war . anyone hears what i am saying . also a menu for wing man or flight to attack air or ground targets ...like clod and il-2 falcon 4 bms ...ect

 .

[EAF19_Charlie]

I can't wait for the next update.

 

Maybe it will show us how to un-fry an egg!!

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Yeah, this is getting obnoxious. Forcing players to, literally, unlock everything in a campaign mode in a sim is not a terribly intuitive idea. It's a sim; the mastery of more complex physics should be the reward.

[Afwastus]

It's not a sim, it's a game guys, never forget. 

 

(Not trying to troll, this is what the developers have said).

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

It's not a sim, it's a game guys, never forget. 

 

(Not trying to troll, this is what the developers have said).

Well, I'll be sure to be more cautious with my purchasing in such case.

[LukeFF]

It's not a sim, it's a game guys, never forget. 

 

(Not trying to troll, this is what the developers have said).

 

They are all games, ultimately. 

[Afwastus]

Naturally, but let's not argue semantics.

 

When most people say "flight sims" they either mean a certain type of game (with a focus on realism, historical accuracy, etc.) or an actual flight simulator used for training purposes and clearly based on what Loft (and other developers) have said that isn't really the primary focus of BoS.

 

To illustrate, while ARMA may be an FPS, most people would call it a "military sim" and it would be inaccurate to call it a twitched based shooter apart from in some very specific mods/modes. However, calling it a "military simulator" doesn't mean one is suggesting that it isn't a game.

 

In the case of the developers though, they have repeatedly and clearly posted that we shouldn't be or have been expecting a "flight simulator."

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[Sparrer]

S!

 

And is getting worse and worse

 

 

 

Pretty disapointed

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

If I read this correctly, all of the normal servers now have aim assist? Or just in the campaign? If so, I have just permanently moved to expert. For MP. Aim assist is not, "normal," in 1942. Aim assist should be for light servers only.