Krig Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Clod don't takes hours to patch... 20 min top. Stealing the thread a bit. Anyone can point me in the direction where I can find good co-op stuff for il46. And how I mod it.
Vaxxtx Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Clod don't takes hours to patch... 20 min top. Stealing the thread a bit. Anyone can point me in the direction where I can find good co-op stuff for il46. And how I mod it. I agree the TF patches for CLoD are easy to DL and install. www.sas1946.com has a ton of stuff and info on anything you need.
Mysticpuma Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) One thing we should add about Cliffs of Dover, Team Fusion are far from.done patching it. The next update will see new cockpits (so new flyables), new aircraft and variants, an auto-updater so the current (exaggerated) hours of patching (it's about 20-minutes) will no longer be an issue and can take you from 'Vanilla' to latest patch or whatever patch you currently have to the latest patch all by using it, new vehicles, new shipping, submarines, new fmb features, a completely new historically accurate mapped theatre, new graphics and a completely re-written sound engine.....to name just some of the highlights! All of this for just a $10 purchase of CloD on Steam....bargain Edited October 7, 2014 by Mysticpuma 3
Trooper117 Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 I reinstalled CLoD last night... I'll be patching with TF shortly!
dburne Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 I reinstalled CLoD last night... I'll be patching with TF shortly! Congrats, you are in for a treat.
Vaxxtx Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 Congrats, you are in for a treat. Agreed. Especially if you are like me, and dismissed it after the initial release, stop playing sims for a while, and come back to a new Cliffs of Dover with TF and your jaw drops. Visual, audio, FM, DM, and just flying over the channel....its amazing.
GP* Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Agreed. Especially if you are like me, and dismissed it after the initial release, stop playing sims for a while, and come back to a new Cliffs of Dover with TF and your jaw drops. Visual, audio, FM, DM, and just flying over the channel....its amazing. I'm in the exact same boat, and what a way to spend $10!
1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 CloD doesn't even run out of the box if you have windows 8, and with 7 or below expect to spend hours downloading and applying the TF patches to get it playable I call BS on this. 20 minutes tops and you are up and running. Less if you use a torrent. TFcliffs was made before windows 8 so yeah there is a way to get it going with that too. I still think you're paid to be here. Iv'e never seen you post until the other day. Even if you're post count is 151 or so. I run windows 7 and have not had a problem downloading TF patches. You may want to contact your ISP and ask them whats wrong. I would get all three, 1946 with an HSFX mod is a easy install lots of fun even if it is dated, TFcliffs is just great and getting better as the modders work their magic. Bos is getting there as well, for a beta game that has to tie up some lose ends before release. If you dont mind unlocks and XP stuff playing a single player campaign to get to unlock the skins or weapons you want. The eye candy is great for the planes, the map ..not so much unless you like white. For under a hundred bucks you can have the best of all the sims and game listed.
CorsairHundo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Posted October 8, 2014 Good to know. I don't like when people talk out the side of their neck. I've got win 7 I call BS on this. 20 minutes tops and you are up and running. Less if you use a torrent. TFcliffs was made before windows 8 so yeah there is a way to get it going with that too. I still think you're paid to be here. Iv'e never seen you post until the other day. Even if you're post count is 151 or so. I run windows 7 and have not had a problem downloading TF patches. You may want to contact your ISP and ask them whats wrong. I would get all three, 1946 with an HSFX mod is a easy install lots of fun even if it is dated, TFcliffs is just great and getting better as the modders work their magic. Bos is getting there as well, for a beta game that has to tie up some lose ends before release. If you dont mind unlocks and XP stuff playing a single player campaign to get to unlock the skins or weapons you want. The eye candy is great for the planes, the map ..not so much unless you like white. For under a hundred bucks you can have the best of all the sims and game listed.
Krig Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Good to know. I don't like when people talk out the side of their neck. I've got win 7 If you have win7 your golden. Amd can be a bother sometimes. I have amd and it works just fine.
Trooper117 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Congrats, you are in for a treat. Got all the TF patches installed this morning and have been exploring the game again... All I can say is 'astounding'... if the original dev team had released CLoD in the same condition as I now have with the TF mod installed they would have been laughing all the way to the bank... brilliant stuff! I'm very impressed!
duko Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) If u pach it with TF mods it works on Windows 8.1 without any problems. Edited October 8, 2014 by duko
BigDally Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) The thing they tell you to do with Win 8 or Win 8.1 is to right click the shortcut for CLoD and select "Run as administrator". Other than that, no issues. Edited October 8, 2014 by BigDally
Mysticpuma Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Got all the TF patches installed this morning and have been exploring the game again... All I can say is 'astounding'... if the original dev team had released CLoD in the same condition as I now have with the TF mod installed they would have been laughing all the way to the bank... brilliant stuff! I'm very impressed! Your welcome....much more to come in the future, Team Fusion are in for the long haul
39bn_pavig Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Say what? I call BS on this. 20 minutes tops and you are up and running. Less if you use a torrent. TFcliffs was made before windows 8 so yeah there is a way to get it going with that too. I still think you're paid to be here. Iv'e never seen you post until the other day. Even if you're post count is 151 or so. I run windows 7 and have not had a problem downloading TF patches. You may want to contact your ISP and ask them whats wrong. I am not paid to be here. That's kinda paranoid. The win 8.1 problems are well know via the ATAG forums, and for a while before teamfusion patched it a hacked launcher had to be used to tweak CloD in memory to get around launch issues. New problems were introduced when the MS C libraries became unsuported in win 8.1 and caused all Steam installations to fail, but neither Ubi, Microsoft nor Steam would take responsibility for patching the installation bug as the MS C libraries were considered end of life. That could be worked around by hacking into your Steam configs as well to convince the installer to work. Some ATI cards stutter terribly and require running directx injectors to fix. The Ubisoft logo launcher is so poorly coded that it locks directx framerates on ATI cards unless you delete the intro logo movie from your install. On my laptop instead I ran into a bug with the engine and nvidia m series drivers which makes the game unplayable due to 2D glitches. Steam as of a month ago no longer lets you turn off auto updates so you might find your install returned to vanilla if you put a foot wrong. Need I go on? I am not saying CloD is bad. From friends reports it is great. But CloD is a game that was released severely bugged, and arguably only worth playing with the TF patches installed. What Teamfusion has done to the game is amazing, but they do not have the code, which remains in the hands of the publisher who has abandoned the product. There are bugs which will never go away, and getting it right on your system so it plays well involves work and gambles, and lots of forum reading. (Thankfully the folk at ATAG are very helpful for newbies.) Some people don't have the patience for early access games, where you just want to play instead of being surprised by patches and glitches and the occasional day or two when it doesn't work at all. Same with CloD for abandoned games, where you have to play developer yourself and dig into folders tweaking config files. Evidently CloD is much smoother under windows7, and "your mileage may vary" etc. Oddly 1946 seems more solid on modern systems than the much younger CloD. But that's just my experience. So yeah, CloD might take 20 minutes to patch for some folk with good cable and a clean setup it plays nice with, but that is not always the case as any trip to the ATAG forums will reveal. If it was still supported by the publisher (who continues to take money for it but is not interested in patching it) then I would recommend it unreservedly. As I've said elsewhere on the forums, perhaps my install issues with CloD are more Microsoft's fault (8.1) than Ubisofts, as long as Ubi isn't active fixing new issues when they arise I'll continue to ragequit CloD whenever I come across a game breaking bug, and can't be bothered searching "[insert problem here] solved" on the ATAG forums to see if there's some other player who's managed to fix it. Wow, that was a whine. Sorry about that. Please don't think I am putting any of the blame on TeamFusion, who are awesome. It really is about the difficulties of running a product which has been abandoned by the publisher. I will return to CloD at some point when I get all the bugs sorted out, and am looking forward to playing it. I have heard that (though the steam version is recommended) it installs better from physical media if you can grab a copy that way. But for the moment I have had very bad experiences with it, so have stuck to sims that work out of the box. It didn't make me quite as angry as when I discovered "MS Flight Sim X is not compatible with MS Windows 8". You can make that run too if you try hard enough... but that one left me speechless. Edited October 8, 2014 by 39bn_pavig
Jaws2002 Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Screenshots I took on April 1st 2011. The day CLOD was released in Europe, before was even released up here in Canada. I got some of them minutes after release, on a Windows 7 machine. I think I had a q6600 and gtx285 graphics card. Two years old at the time. Clod had problems at release, but most were caused by ancient computers many wanted to play it on. Either way, it ran just fine for me, on a Windows 7 machines, since the day it was released. Heck, I made myself custom skinsthe and used them in Clod since the day it was released. We don't even know if we'll be able to us our skins in this one. We still can't a year since we got the first build. Edited October 8, 2014 by Jaws2002
snowsnipersnow_sniper Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 old screeshots here have nothing to do with actual TF 4.135 version here :
keeno Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Hi Corsair, I've been with CloD since the beginning through the dark days and back into the light with TF, I've been with ROF since the beginning when the release was a fraction of what it is today and I've been with BoS since it was first out for pre-order. I've also had iL-1946 for 7-8 years and have various set ups with SAS, HSFX-7, UP3, and now TFM, all these are modded versions expanding on the original gameand they are very good but.........I fired it up the other day after a year away while I'm waiting for CloD TF's next patch and was waiting for BoS next fFriday update and I got the shock of my life when I saw how dated the graphics, sounds, DM, FM's were, I flew for half and hour and just turned it off...........it was fun but it just can not compare to CLoD, BoS and RoF. Stick with the latest sims, you will not regret it. Cheers
39bn_pavig Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 Screenshots I took on April 1st 2011. The day CLOD was released in Europe, before was even released up here in Canada. I got some of them minutes after release, on a Windows 7 machine. I think I had a q6600 and gtx285 graphics card. Two years old at the time. Clod had problems at release, but most were caused by ancient computers many wanted to play it on. Either way, it ran just fine for me, on a Windows 7 machines, since the day it was released. Heck, I made myself custom skinsthe and used them in Clod since the day it was released. We don't even know if we'll be able to us our skins in this one. We still can't a year since we got the first build. Awesome screenshots! I really want to get in to CloD but currently can't. I noticed this as well. Cliffs of Dover was released 31 March 2011 You were making awesome screenshots 1 April 2011 Last patch from the publisher 19 April 2011 http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dovers/blog/uk/?p=1292 So it got less than a month of "official" support from the major publisher and the rest has been handled by the original develper and the community. It may not have worked on old machines, but it is by no means future proof either despite the work of TF. The publisher is still charging $49.95USD (if you can't find a discount) on Steam, yet the work to keep it running on modern machines is being done by the community for free! If I had bought a new machine and CloD in April 2011 and lived with it since I would probably have a very different picture of the sim, but unfortunately I bought it several months ago and went through hell to get it to run. I only say this because every other sim/game I have installed apart from MS FSX has been no problem to run, and has only required the occasional performance tweak. Maybe it's Windows 8.1 at fault but with the publisher abandoning it on release that just means if you buy a machine today you are unsupported and CloD wont run without getting under the hood.
indiaciki Posted October 8, 2014 Posted October 8, 2014 What's the FM like i COD compared to BOS and ROF?
39bn_pavig Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) From the short time I've played CloD air FM is pretty good, though it does seem a bit "clean and shiny" compared to RoF/BoS. Ground handling is pretty rudimentary, but as you spend most of your time in the air that's not much of a problem. RoF/BoS/DCS feel the most weighty to me. MSFSX feels kinda railsy (as if the physics engine was switching between different simulations depending on how stable your aircraft is.) From my brief experience with CloD it fits somewhere in the middle, but more towards the DCS feel than the MSFSX feel. There's a few nice touches to the FM as well which RoF and BoS don't have - hard to pin down but the simulation of pilot body reaction to inertia (which shifts your eye off the gunsight under load) is pretty sweet. All of them make War Thunder FM (and a lot of others) feel pretty anemic in comparison. On the non-FM side both DCS and CloD have clickable cockpits, which makes complex engine/plane management much more immersive if you haven't got a sim-pit in your den with all the mod cons. If you like fussing with your magnetos and fuel tanks all the other stuff that RoF/BoS hides from you behind the AI then that's a bonus. Edited October 9, 2014 by 39bn_pavig
LBR=H_Ostermann Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 It's not on rails (like some people say), but it's not a rubber band. You can actually dive in a 109. And if you want a wobble plane, fly the 110.
DigitalEngine Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) I suggest all 3 in this order..... If you dont get IL2 1946 (for cheap as well) you will be missing out on a LOT. The community is still very active and there are tons of different ways to play it, as well as every single plane and theatre. Pretty much the biggest WWII sandbox game ever made. Be warned the mods are vast, and can be confusing as to what you want, but sas1946.com has made it mostly headache free. I suggest IL21946 with the latest patch and HSFX7. Its small but packs a punch. Then DL what campaigns you want. The graphics are not horrible, and with some mods they can look quite nice. The DM with some mods are spot on as well. My secret evil pleasure is a gore mod that actually puts blood spatters on the cockpit canopy glass when a pilot gets shot....evil I know, but amazing. After that pick up CLoD (again for cheap) and get the Team Fusion packs. It comes with a random mission generator similar to Pat Wilsons for RoF. Then grab Heinkills Redux campaigns. I am not a scritped campaign fan, but holy hell they are awesome. The prettiness of the planes, damage model, and map will have you in awe. The cockpits are the best I have ever seen. After you have that, see how BoS does on release and where its going. If it looks postive grab it. If not, you will be busy anyway. If you want to try your hand a more in depth sim grab DCS World (free), and pick the planes you want to buy for it. Be ready to really study, its a study sim with awesome details and some great campaigns. Modern to WWII era. Just remember the WWII area is not going to be finished soon. Second this, do them all!! But don't listen to me, I'm a flight sim addict... Edited October 9, 2014 by BlueMatrix
SOLIDKREATE Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) This or IL2:CLOD for WW2 dogfight (this has better flight physics, CLOD has better DM), Rise of Flight for WW1 dogfight, DCS for modern air combat. Take a choice, cant go wrong with either of them. Il2:1946 is fantastic but very dated compared to the above. You forgot to mention Falcon BMS 4.3. It is the best F-16 Block 50 simulator out there. It has two third party free DLC. Israeli theater and the Balkans. If you want FULL simulation like DCS look no further. Battle for the Balkans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8NvMuDDNsI Israel SEAD Strike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET5W6WcCDG0 Edited October 9, 2014 by KOTP_SPEKTRE76
Vaxxtx Posted October 9, 2014 Posted October 9, 2014 Yeah, FalconBMS is top notch in campaign and FM, and like the others...cheap. The only reason I didnt push DCS or FalconBMS is because I am assuming the OP was lookign for WWII, and both of those focus on the more modern stuff (expect for the WWII part of DCS of course). And about the FM in CLoD....its rock solid.
BSS_Mudcat Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 The publisher is still charging $49.95USD (if you can't find a discount) on Steam, yet the work to keep it running on modern machines is being done by the community for free! it's $9.99 normal price on steam, amazon and ubisoft's website. The only $49.95 price I saw was for a boxed copy, just fyi.
39bn_pavig Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) it's $9.99 normal price on steam, amazon and ubisoft's website. The only $49.95 price I saw was for a boxed copy, just fyi. Yup. I payed $9.99USD for Cliffs of Dover via getgamesgo.com or something, because I live in Australia and the publisher price gouges us terribly. Just checked and it is still listed as $49.99USD if you buy it from here through Steam. That's why I had a little rage about no support from the publisher when they continue to price the title as a AAA in our market. Edited October 10, 2014 by 39bn_pavig
ACG_KaiLae Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 For CLoD, why would what the publisher does make any difference? If you want to know what's going on these days in CLoD, ask mysticpuma or another team fusion member. They're the ones who are actually making the patches for the game.
heinkill Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 I dont like scripted campaigns. I dont play them Latest patch for CoD Team Fusion mod includes a dynamic campaign generator. H
39bn_pavig Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 For CLoD, why would what the publisher does make any difference? If you want to know what's going on these days in CLoD, ask mysticpuma or another team fusion member. They're the ones who are actually making the patches for the game. The support of the publisher makes a huge difference. Neither the developer nor the modding community has complete control over the game once it is in the hands of the publisher, so if the publisher abandons it then no patches, and unless they release the source code or give the developer rights to modify then what people can do with the engine is highly restricted. In other words when the code is legally tied up with the publisher there are no true patches, only hacks. So the people who keep the title alive and provide support do so mostly for free, and with the burden of being stuck with a legacy version in distribution which is difficult to maintain. Publishers can mitigate this by incorporating after launch patches by the developer or freeing up some code to the community etc, and this has worked well for many titles. When they continue to collect sales yet do nothing regarding support it is an impediment to the sim community and the ability of the developer to support the title. CloD isn't the only sim title I can think of which has suffered from such a relationship with the publisher - sub sims also have a history of falling foul of these problems, and similarly many recent titles in that genre have been finished by the modding community when released in a poor state and having support prematurely withdrawn. It seems that the major publishers just don't get sims, and expect a title to have a short shelf life so don't plan on contingencies after release. Contrast with indy published titles is stark. Eg Arma 2 is still being patched five years later though Arma 3 is out. Admittedly only for game breaking bugs, but that is a huge difference to CloD or Silent Hunter abandoned at birth. When they are broke, they are broke. So, yeah, the publishers behavior is still important, even when the community takes over stewardship of a title. 2
CorsairHundo Posted October 13, 2014 Author Posted October 13, 2014 Well for now I went ahead and got DCS. Spent only a few hrs last night but I liked it. Used the "cheat " to start it up as I wanted to get in the air. Took a few times to take off as I didn't read the manual and forgot about the rear wheel lock, so I was a little erratic. Surprised myself and landed on the 2nd attempt so I'm happy with that. The altimeter gauge is blocked by the throttle lever which makes it hard to see the exact altitude you're at. Tried different resolutions but still blocked, the "arm" being short is the issue. I'll try and get the hang of flying this unarmed p-51 then I'll buy the fighter version and probably the A-10 after that. Don
Vaxxtx Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Well for now I went ahead and got DCS. Spent only a few hrs last night but I liked it. Used the "cheat " to start it up as I wanted to get in the air. Took a few times to take off as I didn't read the manual and forgot about the rear wheel lock, so I was a little erratic. Surprised myself and landed on the 2nd attempt so I'm happy with that. The altimeter gauge is blocked by the throttle lever which makes it hard to see the exact altitude you're at. Tried different resolutions but still blocked, the "arm" being short is the issue. I'll try and get the hang of flying this unarmed p-51 then I'll buy the fighter version and probably the A-10 after that. Don If you got DCS World, I still highly recommend the BlackShark. I have not seen a better chooper sim ever. And you can usually get it for a good price. You should also pick up CLoD before the A10 imo. Just a suggestion.
39bn_pavig Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) If you got DCS World, I still highly recommend the BlackShark. I have not seen a better chooper sim ever. And you can usually get it for a good price. You should also pick up CLoD before the A10 imo. Just a suggestion.+1 on Black Shark. An awesome hello sim. Flight model is best in class and the systems modeling is fascinating. Great combination of ingenious 70s tech with both digital and analog systems. Quite an education. (Ps. Get black shark 2. I may be wrong but I think they still sell black shark original which has simpler modeling.) Edited October 13, 2014 by 39bn_pavig
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) +1 on Black Shark. An awesome hello sim. Flight model is best in class and the systems modeling is fascinating. Great combination of ingenious 70s tech with both digital and analog systems. Quite an education. (Ps. Get black shark 2. I may be wrong but I think they still sell black shark original which has simpler modeling.) You're correct. Black Shark is pretty baller, though for those new to it? Don't think it's an Apache/Mangusta/Cobra contemporary; think VTOL A-10 or Su-25. Really, the aircraft is perfect for video games and sims since it's such a cool vehicle and it's a single seater. And have more Romainian Emil. Been playing more CloD lately to get my piston fix; BoS sure is plastic at the moment and I've uninstalled it for the time being. I'll pick it back up when it's more set in stone and see how it is. Edited October 14, 2014 by MiG21bisFishbedL
ACG_Dickie Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) The support of the publisher makes a huge difference. Neither the developer nor the modding community has complete control over the game once it is in the hands of the publisher, so if the publisher abandons it then no patches, and unless they release the source code or give the developer rights to modify then what people can do with the engine is highly restricted. In other words when the code is legally tied up with the publisher there are no true patches, only hacks. So the people who keep the title alive and provide support do so mostly for free, and with the burden of being stuck with a legacy version in distribution which is difficult to maintain. Publishers can mitigate this by incorporating after launch patches by the developer or freeing up some code to the community etc, and this has worked well for many titles. When they continue to collect sales yet do nothing regarding support it is an impediment to the sim community and the ability of the developer to support the title. This is nonsense mate. You can call it a hack if you like but, as a Project Manager in IT, I've seen plenty of hacks from paid pros, and that's usually because the Publisher (i.e upper management and marketing) push things ahead of when they can be done. TF are the opposite, delivery when happy with it, for free. I'm looking forward to the next patch, which if the rumours are true contains a new theatre and 7 new flyables - for free For everyone else, the movie, "Beginning of the End" was my group, ACG, and we're always looking for pilots interested in historic immersion, we do history in big numbers so come on in and say hello. That video was done on 4.135, and TF since realised 4.3 where the effects and FM's (amongst other things) were much improved Edited October 14, 2014 by Osprey
39bn_pavig Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I don't think you quite understood what I was getting at Osprey. This is nonsense mate. You can call it a hack if you like but, as a Project Manager in IT, I've seen plenty of hacks from paid pros, and that's usually because the Publisher (i.e upper management and marketing) push things ahead of when they can be done. I've had the same experience, but that's the pre-release end of the publishing cycle. I was talking about post release. Hardly anything is released finished these days so the post-release behavior of the publisher is just as important as their pre-release management. Sims have a particularly long development cycle, and typically face continued refinement post release, so a publisher which treats them like a console title finished on launch is a problem. TF are the opposite, delivery when happy with it, for free. I'm looking forward to the next patch, which if the rumours are true contains a new theatre and 7 new flyables - for free I have nothing but praise for TF! But (correct me if i'm, wrong) due to publisher lockup they do not have the sourcecode for the sim, so really are stuck hacking legacy code. The quality of their releases are certainly very good, but if you've been an IT project manager then you know what a constraint lock in legacy code can be. Anyway I've said enough disparaging stuff about Cliffs of Dover, and am eager to get the damn thing working and stable. I've got a nice big (to scale) historical map of the channel, an e6b, a stopwatch, and a mate that's going to teach me navigation the old fashioned way. See you in the air.
ACG_Dickie Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 I see your point. Re navigation, take a look here http://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/flight_school/flight_school.php?section=0#nav If you need any help at all just pop in our TS or forums. 1
39bn_pavig Posted October 17, 2014 Posted October 17, 2014 After saying all those nasty things about Cliffs of Dover, I figured I should make amends. Just noticed you can get it for $2.49 via GGG http://getgamesgo.com/product/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover so there's nothing stopping you giving it a try.
II./JG27_Rich Posted May 17, 2015 Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Bought CloD for 10 bucks. 1946 for 15. Can't recommend both of them enough. Exactly and Cliffs of Dover with the Team Fusion patches is a fantastic sim. Edited May 17, 2015 by II./JG27_Rich
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