The campaign mode - a skeptic's view

[Afwastus]

As a proponent of the autopilot method, I have to say I don't see it as an exploit but rather a hotfix for something that is broken. Namely forcing people to play single player whether they want to or not.

 

I would rephrase your rhetorical question and say "how sad is it, that we are forced to play a campaign mode whether it entertains us or not?"

 

Honestly, it's telling that the most common review of the campaign is "it's not that bad."

 

Are you surprised that a lot of people would rather skip a mode that is summed up as not being quite as bad as they had feared?

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[Finkeren]

No, I'm not surprised. Just a bit saddened. As I said, this was not the SP-mode I wanted, and I kinda doubt it was something very many people wanted. Yet, that is what we got, and I'm determined to have as much fun with it as posible.

 

I'm not being down on people who choose the autopilot solution. I just think that it's sad, that it's come to this.

[Rivet]

Interesting. When I tried the autopilot hotfix, the useless sod got shot down.

 

 

Not that there's anything wrong with exploiting things like these, but how sad is it, that we let the computer play the game for us in a campaign mode that's supposed to be entertainment?

I agree, it is sad that we do this but if they hadn't gone down this arcade route we might have had the remote possibility of ending up with a proper campaign/career mode for single player which would have made it immersive and entertaining. It would also have had the multiplayer benefit of not having to play single player mode.

[Afwastus]

Interesting. When I tried the autopilot hotfix, the useless sod got shot down.

 

Unfortunately, in some cases you have to babysit the autopilot. I usually recommend sitting with a book next to your PC or if you have two monitors surfing on the second one, so that you can keep an occasional eye on how the autopilot is doing.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[dburne]

 

I agree, it is sad that we do this but if they hadn't gone down this arcade route we might have had the remote possibility of ending up with a proper campaign/career mode for single player which would have made it immersive and entertaining. It would also have had the multiplayer benefit of not having to play single player mode.

 

Well I am a single player only guy, and I did do the training missions this morning - the last one, I did using AI Autopilot and 16X time compression.

 

I just do not think I can go any further with this campaign, it is just not for me.

I sincerely hope the developers listen to some of the outcry and change some things, but if they do change anything, I suspect it will only be to make it where the multiplayer guys do not have to go through the SP missions to get their needed unlocks. I would be very happy for them if this change does happen, but for me it would do nothing.

 

I guess where BOS is concerned, I will have to hang my hat on maybe getting some really good single player missions or better yet campaigns, developed by the user base, that are more in style with the flying that I would want to participate in.

 

If not, then I will be doing other things.

[Voidhunger]

turn on autopilot and wait for the bombers

turn off autopilot and shot them down in one single pass

turn on the autopilot and enjoy the debrifing

[Rivet]

Thanks Afwastus & Voidhunger. I might try that if I can bring myself to go back to it. I did the first few missions after the "training" stuff which got me halfway through the first "Chapter". I just couldn't go on after that. Any enthusiasm evaporated in the face of that yellow immersion killing wall of text. And "Action Area?" Oh please!  

[Emgy]

Maybe you were just unlucky, or I maybe got lucky. I observed the AI during an intercept and an escort mission, both times it went defensive (until it decided it was out of danger) while friendly fighters engaged enemy planes.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Calvamos

[Afwastus]

Yeah, based on what the Unlock Hotfix Group/Gruppe has noticed most of the time the autopilot does a great job, but on occasion something goes a bit wrong with it and it will do something dumb, which is why you can't just leave it on and go afk.

[Emgy]

Are there death penalties I'm unaware of? From what I can see, you can just leave the AI to itself, you just get less xp/minute when the AI dies, so you have to rinse and repeat one more time. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by Calvamos

[Afwastus]

You do get a couple of more XP points when you take-offs and landings. However, some people find it's faster to just run short missions on autopilot over and over, because the XP reward for landing/takeoff is not that large.

 

We use the following thread to discuss what the fastest methods of getting unlocks are:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11234-getting-unlocking-over-fast-possible/

 

However, do note, with the coming stats reset for release, you will have to regain all of your XP at a later date.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[Emgy]

Thanks, missed that thread. Sorry Finkeren for the semi-OT . 

Edited October 5, 2014 by Calvamos

[Rivet]

Yeah, I might have been unlucky there. I'll give it another go out of curiosity. Thanks.

[Rivet]

Yes, I was just unlucky that first time (or at least my AI character was). I just did two missions a few minutes ago and this time it worked beautifully. Thanks guys .

 

Just one question. As some unlocks are specific to certain planes, am I to understand we have to do this for each plane type to get the full range of unlocks?

[Afwastus]

Yes, you will have to switch planes at some point.

[Rivet]

Thanks. I just tried the 109 for curiosity and got the removed headrest unlocked. So I don't suppose it matters what "Chapter" you're in as long as you fly each type of aircraft enough times to get everything unlocked. Anyway the hotfix is working beautifully. At Operation Uranus now

[Y-29.Silky]

Unfortunately I do not feel this is a campaign.  There is no immersion. Rather is is a collection of single player, single missions with some connecting videos. I don't care if I pass or fail a mission because if I don't the only consequence is having to refly the same mission.  I am not developing my character or affecting my unit or changing the war.  Next mission I might just fly the complete opposite side. What is the replayability here? Minimal in my impression.  As Fink so astutely observes the missions are the same formula each and every time.  I realise that this an early iteration of the final campaign but unfortunately if developed along these lines I don't see any great improvement that is going to make this a long term success.

 

I could not have put it better myself. It doesn't give it a campaign feel, but rather just a bunch of single player missions lined up. I remember in 1946, you actually got to know your whole squadron.. They had names, their own skills, even their own photo, etc, etc, and when one pilot was lost, they would be replaced by a green pilot... What was really fun is starting your pilot at a low rank, and working your way up to flight leader.

Also, I haven't been forced to bail out of my aircraft yet in the campaign, but also from 1946, you'd still pass the mission if you were able to bail out behind friendly lines... In this campaign, I do the full missions, but there's been times where I botched my landing on the runway where my gear breaks off, and I'd fail the whole mission because I didn't land safely, which is very, very frusterating.

 

Any landing you can walk away from, is a good landing!

 

And yes, the mission debriefings are dull at best.. If you can even call them one.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Silky

[sturmkraehe]

First of all, it seems that at least during the tutorial missions it is impossible to change the difficulty settings.

 

Second, I am annoyed that I have to go through these tutorial missions.

 

Third, I really dislike this sort of "leveling up". That's ok for an ego shooter or rpgs. But for a flight SIMULATION? SERIOUSLY? How old do they think I AM????

[Finkeren]

Old enough that you shouldn't get your panties in a twist over a video game?

Calm down. As annoying as some of the features of the campaign might be, it's not the end of the world.

[BlitzPig_EL]

it's not the end of the world.

 

But it may prove the end of this title.

 

This whole unlock nonsense is not sitting well with a lot of folks like myself who are on the sidelines watching how the sim develops.

 

The unlock/XP grind must be separated from the multiplayer experience.  

 

Forcing this on folks like me who only want to fly online against other humans is, well, moronic.  If it stays in on release I will not be a customer, simple as that.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Well chaps, I am now a fully-qualified VVS and Luftwaffe pilot. I sat back, enjoyed a beer and x16 through the first chapter of the most glorious and immersive campaign. I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did but damn, that beer was fantastic. In other news, the campaign is the biggest pile of wank I've had the displeasure of 'playing' - and all to access a couple of unlocks that I desire for online play.

[wellenbrecher]

I sat back, enjoyed a beer and x16 through the first chapter of the most glorious and immersive campaign. I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did but damn, that beer was fantastic.

I quite literally lol'd.

[indiaciki]

[Lowe]

Burning through the campaign rather rapidly whilst I carry on towards the end of le Carré's A Most Wanted Man. Quite nice to get some reading time in.

[Afwastus]

Well chaps, I am now a fully-qualified VVS and Luftwaffe pilot. I sat back, enjoyed a beer and x16 through the first chapter of the most glorious and immersive campaign. I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did but damn, that beer was fantastic. In other news, the campaign is the biggest pile of wank I've had the displeasure of 'playing' - and all to access a couple of unlocks that I desire for online play.

 

The Unlock Hotfix Group, helping players enjoy the single player campaign since October 3rd. 

[indiaciki]

I hope they won't disable AP in the final version. 

[BraveSirRobin]

I thought that Spitfire Girl was the dumbest thing that I would ever see in a flight sim.  I was wrong.  Forcing MP people to play SP to get things they have already paid for is now the dumbest thing I have ever seen in a flight sim.

[Caldur]

i thought that there is something bad with my memory, but no i remembered right...it's really sad :-(

June 2013 - Dev Diary #21

 

 

(...)When you enter a phase you'll be asked to join a regiment. The regiments available vary from phase to phase the way it happened back then during Battle of Stalingrad: some squadrons leave, some come to the front lines, join other units or get renamed. Which regiment you choose defines which side you server with - Soviet Air force or German Luftwaffe. You'll be free to change sides before every mission. Thus, all your stats gathered in the game get bound to your account while specific data is split in two separate profiles - USSR and Germany.
 
Every regiment has a home base and specific aircraft in service. You can use any plane that your regiment has available. Remember, that a plane's design defines the type of mission you'll be offered to play. If you choose a fighter, ground attack or bomber the gameplay will be different which helps us bring you three different flight-sim experiences. The types of missions that are offered are very diverse and give you the freedom to choose one that suits you best. Some players prefer intense dogfights or ground assaults against armor or massive bombing raids hitting transportation lines or troops. 
 
Also our mission generator pays attention to the phase you're playing - i.e. stage of the battle. For instance, Luftwaffe bombers fly more supply missions than bombing raids during the aerial bridge period, while Soviet fighters try to intercept them more often. Such a situation is drastically different from what happened in the air during earlier stages of the battle. Thus, the variety of mission types allows you to see the operation from all points of view.
 
Weather is taken into account as well. We've preset certain rules for weather in every phase. For instance, some periods will have pretty bad weather simply because that's how it was in real life according to history. Wind speed and direction is taken into account as well. The time when the mission starts will be set depending on the specific regiment you're playing for and the period of the phase.
 
Along with you and your AI controlled enemies, a whole bunch of other AI planes will be active in every mission. You may meet friendly or enemy units flying by, scouting, bombing or fighting each other. Both the air and ground will be filled with action and your mission won't be fought by you alone, but with friendly AI crews. Should you engage a hostile recon unit? Will you try to help a pair of friendlies outnumbered by an enemy squad? Can you protect a group of ground assault planes from a sudden attack? It is up to you to decide, but remember - you're on your own mission with its own priorities!

[Rivet]

I wonder if we'll get a x32 option in a future update.

[ScotsmanFlyingscotsman]

Agree with Finkeren,

                                     I had to wait a few days, just too damn tired after work to take all this in. 

But I'm generally patient, now I 've had a wake up call, I can shoot that Stuka down, no problem, but landing that LAGG.....back to circuits and bumps and MAN are they Bumps, This is where we lack that 'hanging in the air' feeling on a grounded chair, you would feel the descent. 

Anyway I like it, it forces me to face my shortcomings

It introduces me to a plane I would not normally fly, so can't be bad at all.

Purists will mock my lack of skill, I've flown real planes and landed real sims, & I can do it all with the 109 & fw190. So this has taught me something, and if it takes time,...so be it

THANKS DEV's I'm glad I paid up and looking forward to the future....unless I never get out this LAAG!

[wellenbrecher]

Three mission in a LaGG, one in a 109 and then you can do whatever you want, scotsman.

[ACG_KaiLae]

Not that there's anything wrong with exploiting things like these, but how sad is it, that we let the computer play the game for us in a campaign mode that's supposed to be entertainment?

 

This has to with the fact that the single player campaign as it currently is, is boring and not fun. In comparison, the multiplayer servers before the unlock mess (Syndicate and Eagle's) were fun, very much so. So like 1/2 the fun has been taken away and replaced with...boring. Why is this a positive?

[Gustang]

I flew quite a few missions over the weekend and after making it half-way into the second chapter, I'm left looking at the remaining chapters of the campaign wondering if I really want to continue it.   Other than the experience treadmill, I don't see much advantage to this style of play over the quick mission builder. There's a lot more opportunity for individualizing my experience in the QMB too.  

[Blitzen]

I was going to write a longish post but the first guy on this thread has said it all...thanks! Its early days yet and it was kinda fun getting this without too much trouble:

 

[39bn_pavig]

Still really enjoying the campaign mode. It has got me flying the Lagg which I previously had little interest in, but having to stick with it for mission after mission to progress you really begin to appreciate how it copes with different roles. I "unlocked" the IL2 - even though it was unlocked already - but haven't felt the desire to cross over to it as progressing with the Lagg has been enjoyable on it's own. Having a restricted choice (which tweaks the RPG lover in me) makes you really appreciate what you've been given to fly and provides some consistency with the goal to keep you on track rather than picking planes at random. You don't have to stick to a single plane, but having an objective (even if it is an abstract one) gives progression more of a sense of purpose. 

 

The tasks seem more varied as I progress, with dusk missions, train attacks, bomber intercepts with multiple flights active etc. For a first pass it really is quite good, and given that you actually have an objective per mission much more satisfying than QMB. I am liking that you can never repeat a mission - each time it is generated on the fly, so if you fail there are no replays. This gives more of a sense of weight to the procedings. It's not quite permadeath, but failure means something, and losing an awesome mission means you can't turn around and repeat knowing what you will face next time. That is keeping it lively for me even though in this first release of the campaign I have a feeling that the mission templates are somewhat beta. 

 

Short missions vs full missions are a great idea. Sometimes I'll sit down and play a full, but if there's something on the telly or dinner is soon I can throw in a short mission and get an instant kick. Shorts are more fun than the QMB though as you don't know quite what to expect in them, and some have turned out to be much more interesting than I anticipated.

 

It's not perfect by a long shot, but I think the campaign is a great foundation for the developers to build on. 

[Gustang]

Shorts are more fun than the QMB though as you don't know quite what to expect in them, and some have turned out to be much more interesting than I anticipated.

 

For one-offs, it's fun so far!  I do think the procedural generation is cool, and I can clearly see a lot of love went into building this SP campaign.   It uses these chance elements to make cool vignettes, but gives no possibility of replay nor can you set them aside for later!   So, in between milk runs (the not-so-fun stuff it produces), you run into a really cool mission, with lots of neat elements and in the middle of the climatic dogfight, you get head-shotted.    No problem!  I'll just hit "refly"... wait, what?  

[ScotsmanFlyingscotsman]

Hi Wellenbrecher,

                                  I'll plug away a bit more, but keep the advice in mind too LOL Thanks