Bf110 vs. Pe-3 and a couples of others that are missing.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Theres no need to be sarcastic and rude. I never said its easy to make, its ridiculous to pay for a plane separately. Most other games you buy the game and you get all planes in the game. Its a different story if the game is FTP or an MMO but this game is neither.

 

Other games? This is the only up-to-date flight simulator alongside DCS. Where you have to spend 50 bucks per plane......

This isn't a "game".  Like Call of Duty or Fifa with Millions of consumers.

This product is for a small (adult) core community. And there you have pay a little more, then for bulk commodity like EA and Ubisoft products. 

 

I am a student myself and don't have a lot of money. But i'd rather spend 1000€ (in total) for flight simulator development, if it serves the purpose for a better flying experience, then for ~30 ordinary games 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Especially when the Dev's have a "make excellent aircraft" button that they can push which instantly creates the 3D aircraft exterior model, 3D cockpit, LOD's, 

textures, animations and damage model and sounds without using any of the teams resources whatsoever. This is only possible with the more common aircraft.

Please sir..... don't be disrespectful because you are not sitting in front of NimbleZA.

Other games? This is the only up-to-date flight simulator alongside DCS. Where you have to spend 50 bucks per plane......

This isn't a "game".  Like Call of Duty or Fifa with Millions of consumers.

This product is for a small (adult) core community. And there you have pay a little more, then for bulk commodity like EA and Ubisoft products. 

 

I am a student myself and don't have a lot of money. But i'd rather spend 1000€ (in total) for flight simulator development, if it serves the purpose for a better flying experience, then for ~30 ordinary games 

Agreed, keep it premium (within reason) so we get accurate, quality models. I put a lot of dollars into war thunder and it is soooo messed up with a community of little keyboard cowboys and devs that don't care about the sim minority..... please don't let that happen to BoS else its back to CoD I go.

[Zettman]

Bf 110 would be nice!

 

S!

Zettman

[NimbleZA]

Other games? This is the only up-to-date flight simulator alongside DCS. Where you have to spend 50 bucks per plane......

This isn't a "game".  Like Call of Duty or Fifa with Millions of consumers.

This product is for a small (adult) core community. And there you have pay a little more, then for bulk commodity like EA and Ubisoft products. 

 

I am a student myself and don't have a lot of money. But i'd rather spend 1000€ (in total) for flight simulator development, if it serves the purpose for a better flying experience, then for ~30 ordinary games 

For Instance IL2 Cliffs of Dover? It comes with all the battle of Britain planes standard and i payed less than I payed for BoS even though I bought it when it was released. The price of the aircraft in DCS is the reason I dont play it, and if i dont how many others dont as well? High prices scare away potential customers. The planes in this game are of excellent quality but how many people are actually willing to pay those prices? It may not be much money to most of us but what happens when they start charging for every new plane, every new map? Just because you're willing to pay doesnt mean everyone is. I dont want this game to fail cause the price scares people away.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

For Instance IL2 Cliffs of Dover? It comes with all the battle of Britain planes standard and i payed less than I payed for BoS even though I bought it when it was released. The price of the aircraft in DCS is the reason I dont play it, and if i dont how many others dont as well? High prices scare away potential customers. The planes in this game are of excellent quality but how many people are actually willing to pay those prices? It may not be much money to most of us but what happens when they start charging for every new plane, every new map? Just because you're willing to pay doesnt mean everyone is. I dont want this game to fail cause the price scares people away.

 

IL2 Cliffs of Dover is almost completely community made. The developers did nothing else but provide a broken(!!) core model. The game at it's current state is 90% made by the Team Fusion guys, 10% of the developers. Even after 4 years, it's still bugged, and still has issues, which the (excellent) modders can't fix, because of broken game engine. Well i definetly don't want that to happen with BoS, because exactly THIS would kill the game, and scare people away.

 

Rather pay good money, and have a propper, enjoyable end-product, without waiting 5 years, and needing the mercy of some flight enthusiasts who fix the game in their free-time for almost nothing!!

[Gambit21]

Theres no need to be sarcastic and rude. I never said its easy to make, its ridiculous to pay for a plane separately. Most other games you buy the game and you get all planes in the game. Its a different story if the game is FTP or an MMO but this game is neither.

My post was typed with tongue planted firmly in cheek - relax.

Anyway...it's a different environment than it was 15 years ago, which is why you don't see 2 or 3 combat simulations being released every year.

While I'm happy and fine with the devs not utilizing a 'microtransaction' model - my point was that it's perfectly justified and I would support it.

If you think other high quality simulations don't charge the customer per aircraft...well you might want to check into that a bit.

cheers

[Nil]

If we ever get an earlier planeset then we currently have, I'd love to see the Bf 110, it's one of my old favorites. But as it is now I'm pretty happy with the FW-190 A3, since I never flown it before in any sim. I thought I'd get BoS just for the 109 G2, but the 190 A3 is more fun then I imagined. It's like sitting in a brand new sportscar compared to the layout in most other planes.
Really hope this sim sells well, and takes off in the 10+years dedicated support that the original had (have) can't wait to fly a P-38, in a few years, as the only allied (fighter/ga)plane I love!.. and the lovely B-25!

Edited October 1, 2014 by Pigmachine

[NimbleZA]

IL2 Cliffs of Dover is almost completely community made. The developers did nothing else but provide a broken(!!) core model. The game at it's current state is 90% made by the Team Fusion guys, 10% of the developers. Even after 4 years, it's still bugged, and still has issues, which the (excellent) modders can't fix, because of broken game engine. Well i definetly don't want that to happen with BoS, because exactly THIS would kill the game, and scare people away.

 

Rather pay good money, and have a propper, enjoyable end-product, without waiting 5 years, and needing the mercy of some flight enthusiasts who fix the game in their free-time for almost nothing!!

The fact it was a total screw up is beside the point. I dunno maybe you're right though. If paying more bringbrings us greater quality then I'm all for it! The times are changing I guess.

My post was typed with tongue planted firmly in cheek - relax.

Anyway...it's a different environment than it was 15 years ago, which is why you don't see 2 or 3 combat simulations being released every year.

While I'm happy and fine with the devs not utilizing a 'microtransaction' model - my point was that it's perfectly justified and I would support it.

If you think other high quality simulations don't charge the customer per aircraft...well you might want to check into that a bit.

cheers

My apologies! I thought you were serious :O Better take the stick outta my butt and grow a sense of humour lol.

 

Also apologies for double posting, I can't multi quote on my phone :/ edit Woah it automatically merged my posts :O

Edited October 1, 2014 by NimbleZA

[unreasonable]

The reality is that we can either have:

 

1) High fidelity sims at a high price

 

2) Casual flight themed games at a low price, or

 

3) Nothing.

 

Given how much money the "yoof" market pours down it's collective throat on Friday nights or stuffs up it's nose every other day, I do not feel a great deal of compassion for their cries of poverty.

[312_Tygr]

Let me just add a couple of thoughts on welcome additions for Stalingrad:

 

Flyable:

 

- lend-lease would be most welcome - P-40 at least.

- Yak-1 with a 12.7 UBS and bubble canopy was also very much there.

- Yak-7

- Axis should get Ju-88 and Bf-109 E-7 definitely.

- IAR.80-81 probably, C.202 - this is a tricky one, they appeared over Stalingrad rarely (escoting Ju-52s apparently) but were stationed outside of the current map (in what is now Donetsk, Luhansk, thereabouts.)

 

Maybe flyable:

 

- Su-2, Po-2, Li-2, Ju-52, Il-4, Hs-123... that sort of stuff

 

 

AI:

 

- FW-189, Po-2, Fi-156 and the rest of targets...

 

20$ per flyable fighter seems okay, higher for bombers.

[BlackDevil]

JU 52, JU88, Bf110  for german side.

 

 

 

20$ per flyable fighter seems okay, higher for bombers.

 

+1

[SharpeXB]

I'm not aware of any current flight sims that don't have extra planes as pay ware. It's normal to pay for this extra content. Cliffs of Dover went bankrupt giving the whole game away for $49.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Sharpe

[FuriousMeow]

I'm not sure where this NimbleZA guy is coming from. 1942 Pacific Air War. Took all of 4 months to make, including manuals and history. It was about $45 back then. That was back in 1994. There was an add-on that cost another $25 that added more aircraft. That add-on took another month of development to make. Start to finish, very simple in every way - from FM, DM to graphics. It still cost almost the same as the Standard edition of BoS which is far more complex, requires far more people to build, and requires far more of your PC to work. It has required triple the the time frame, and at least six times the man hours to develop. Now bear in mind, we're paying almost the same for far more complicated, complex and detailed stuff that takes longer to develop - and some want everything else after for free because they paid for just Battle of Stalingrad - and keeping that in mind, even in the past all games have charged for additional expansion packs, so nothing was "for free." The old Il-2 series, new "free planes" came out but then they were added into the Expansion packs released later that had to be purchased. So no, NimbleZA, you don't pay one price and get everything for free after. You pay for what you purchased at the time of purchase, and everything extra costs extra.

Edited October 2, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[ShamrockOneFive]

I just pissed 20$ of beer down the toilet.Was it worth it?I dunno.Will see later in the morning.20$ too much for cute little virtual digital plane?You cant be serious

 

Good for you. I tend to be more sparing with my money.

 

Totally serious.

[FuriousMeow]

Good for you. I tend to be more sparing with my money.

 

Totally serious.

 

I'll be totally serious, if it isn't worth it to you - then it isn't worth it. Just don't bother with it. No one is making you buy it, but if this genre is something you enjoy and something you like then it is time to totally seriously cough up the money. There is way more development going into this than any previous air combat game/sim and we are still paying the same amount for it as we did 20 years ago. Additionally, this genre has a far smaller pool of interested individuals. Yeah, EA can churn out Call of Buttlescut (damn it, BF2 was so great and then BF3/BF4 turds came along and I pissed away money on that I regret so much) but they are making tons in return because they have an audience in the millions while titles like this are lucky to have an audience in the tens of thousands. This title should be charging way more to make it a little profitable, not just barely making ends meet as it is.

 

Be sparing with your money, but if this is something you enjoy then you have to be willing to pay the cost of it.

Edited October 3, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[NimbleZA]

I'm not sure where this NimbleZA guy is coming from. 1942 Pacific Air War. Took all of 4 months to make, including manuals and history. It was about $45 back then. That was back in 1994. There was an add-on that cost another $25 that added more aircraft. That add-on took another month of development to make. Start to finish, very simple in every way - from FM, DM to graphics. It still cost almost the same as the Standard edition of BoS which is far more complex, requires far more people to build, and requires far more of your PC to work. It has required triple the the time frame, and at least six times the man hours to develop. Now bear in mind, we're paying almost the same for far more complicated, complex and detailed stuff that takes longer to develop - and some want everything else after for free because they paid for just Battle of Stalingrad - and keeping that in mind, even in the past all games have charged for additional expansion packs, so nothing was "for free." The old Il-2 series, new "free planes" came out but then they were added into the Expansion packs released later that had to be purchased. So no, NimbleZA, you don't pay one price and get everything for free after. You pay for what you purchased at the time of purchase, and everything extra costs extra.

I'm talking about the fact that those planes aren't an expansion. I have no problem paying for additional content like expansion packs and even the occasional DLC. But the game is not even finished and they're already charging people for additional planes. I realise lots of games do that I just find it immoral but anyway I do realise that the planes are really high quality and worth the money you pay for them

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I'm talking about the fact that those planes aren't an expansion. I have no problem paying for additional content like expansion packs and even the occasional DLC. But the game is not even finished and they're already charging people for additional planes. I realise lots of games do that I just find it immoral but anyway I do realise that the planes are really high quality and worth the money you pay for them

Thing is that the community isn't here to play down a techtree and gain RP, also the community is small and the game large, which means lots of money has to be made. And each of these airplanes takes 6-12 times as long to create as i.e.: War Thunder. And they do more research and everything. I don't even know if they turn a profit now.

[Brano]

Well,myself I do not come from G7 group of reach countries but I can comfortably spend 20$ or euros for single plane a month.If you are not able to do so,then you should rethink your financial strategy or get a better job.This hobby is expensive.If you cant allow it,it is not problem of developers.

[Czar66]

Oh cmon, DCS and Il-2 are completely different flight sims. DCS is doing pretty fine without those who are scared to pay a reasonable price for a study virtual plane on a study virtual environment. Every plane there is a game/sim itself unless is a flaming cliffs level of detail, but I'm talking about the tough ones to learn. Guess who got wrong in last title and because of what....

 

Make it good and you can put a price on it, that's the rule.

 

Prices are a little high on BoS for what is offered by plane, btw.

[NimbleZA]

Oh cmon, DCS and Il-2 are completely different flight sims. DCS is doing pretty fine without those who are scared to pay a reasonable price for a study virtual plane on a study virtual environment. Every plane there is a game/sim itself unless is a flaming cliffs level of detail, but I'm talking about the tough ones to learn. Guess who got wrong in last title and because of what....

 

Make it good and you can put a price on it, that's the rule.

 

Prices are a little high on BoS for what is offered by plane, btw.

What he said^^ And also nowhere did I say I can't afford it. I could go buy it now, I just don't agree with the way they're doing things and that's my opinion and I chose not to pay for those planes in protest. The game industry love to milk their consumers like cows for every little thing! Imagine if you bought a dvd box set for your favourite TV show and you couldn't watch episodes 6 and 8 cause they were locked and you had to pay 20$ to unlock each one. It would be extremely irritating. I bought a game called the battle of stalingrad so therefore I expect the aircraft that participated in the battle to he included in the game not pay for them separately. If they want to add premium planes then add something that featured but was extremely rare like the MC 202 Edited October 3, 2014 by NimbleZA

[Dakpilot]

Think of it this way, you bought the budget intro version, priced to allow access for a cheaper "test it and see if I like it" entry fee

 

if you like and enjoy it you can still upgrade to the full version for almost no financial disadvantage, compared to the full version, or continue to play and experience everything without the two extra aircraft

 

cannot see the problem or "immoral" marketing at all

 

CheersDakpilot

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

What he said^^ And also nowhere did I say I can't afford it. I could go buy it now, I just don't agree with the way they're doing things and that's my opinion and I chose not to pay for those planes in protest. The game industry love to milk their consumers like cows for every little thing! Imagine if you bought a dvd box set for your favourite TV show and you couldn't watch episodes 6 and 8 cause they were locked and you had to pay 20$ to unlock each one. It would be extremely irritating. I bought a game called the battle of stalingrad so therefore I expect the aircraft that participated in the battle to he included in the game not pay for them separately. If they want to add premium planes then add something that featured but was extremely rare like the MC 202

It's a big game by a small company for a very small community. Do you know how long it takes and how much money they had to invest long before first release? They don't have millions of 12 year olds with mommas credit card but a small number of invested Simmers. And the rest is simple maths.

[NimbleZA]

Hey guys I'm not complaining. The devs can charge whatever they want, it's their game they worked hard on. I'm jus stating my opinion. That's what a forum is for. In the meantime I'll enjoy playing this excellent sim and pay for whatever future content I want S!

[Jade_Monkey]

I suspect that the price will be for a new map + SP "campaign" set + add on aircraft, assuming that BoS is a success (we hope)!

 

Given how little scripted the SP campaigns are I'm not sure the model you propose is feasible.

[Michael_Wilhelm]

Ju 52 all the way. can't make a big flight map that calls itself stalingrad in WWII without the ju 52. WE NEED THE TANTE JU!

[102nd-YU-shtele]

According to this post by Loft in Russian forums, there is chance that Ju-52 appears as non-fliable (AI only) for transport missions:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1974-obsuzhdenie-81-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=212813

 

 

Да. Это можно назвать планом. Сейчас делаются миссии сопровождения и перехвата штурмовиков. Меняются шаблоны уже существующих. Добавляются объекты, наземка, зенитки, скоро будут добавлены сигнальные ракеты от разных подразделений. Дальше будут еще новые типы миссий, в том числе как писалось например завоевание превосходства в воздухе. Так же в работе миссии по перехвату транспортных самолетов, и соответственно возможно транспортировочные. В проекте наверное даже появится Ju52 в виде нелетаба для транспортировочных миссий.

 

Будут добавлены ачивки для игроков у которых много времени. Т.е. статистические. В будущем возможно появление ачивок и мультиплеерных, как и в целом ранговой статистики. Дел много. Система поэтому и была выбрана такая, она быстро наращивается и модифицируется.