Bf110 vs. Pe-3 and a couples of others that are missing.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

So right now there are some essential aircraft and their counterparts missing.

1. Bf110-F and Bf110-G versus the Pe-3 (a heavier version of the Pe-2 with cannons instead of Shkas MGs) Both fought in Stalingrad.

2. Ju-88 versus Tu-2. Both are medium bomber/heavy fighters both with large caliber cannons available

3. Bf109G-1 vs. MiG-3.  The G-1 was pressurized and GM-1 boosted, the MiG-3 was the only russian production fighter suited for high alt. fighting.

4. Fw190F vs. Yak-7. Both were heavier versions able to carry heavier armament than their light fighter siblings, and suited ground attack but were also rather slow and underpowered.

 

[Leaf]

I demand the                

[Finkeren]

Not that I'm not in favor of adding more historically appropriate aircraft to the mix, but many of your suggestions/matches make little sense:

 

The Pe-3 only ever existed in very small numbers and by the time of BoS was reduced to single aircraft scattered throughout a number of recon squadrons.

 

The Tu-2 was in very limited service in 1942. It only started to serve in numbers in 1944.

 

The MiG-3 was being phased out on most fronts in late 1942. I'm not sure any were in service over Stalingrad. Also, while it was certainly designed for high altitude performance, in reality it was far from a great performer at altitude.

 

The Bf 109 G-1 was built in very limited numbers. Few, if any served at Stalingrad.

 

The Yak-7 was not "slow and underpowered" nor was it any less of a full blood fighter than the Yak-1. The Yaks were never particularly suited for ground attack duties. Neither was the Bf 109F.

 

The Bf 110, Ju 88 and Yak-7B are all good choices for an early expansion of BoS though. Other significant additions could be Ju 52, IL-4, Yak-9 or the improved Yak-1 known as the "Yak-1B" (Both Yaks were combat tested at Stalingrad), IAR-80/81 and Bf 109 E-4B.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Not that I'm not in favor of adding more historically appropriate aircraft to the mix, but many of your suggestions/matches make little sense:

 

The Pe-3 only ever existed in very small numbers and by the time of BoS was reduced to single aircraft scattered throughout a number of recon squadrons.

 

The Tu-2 was in very limited service in 1942. It only started to serve in numbers in 1944.

 

The MiG-3 was being phased out on most fronts in late 1942. I'm not sure any were in service over Stalingrad. Also, while it was certainly designed for high altitude performance, in reality it was far from a great performer at altitude.

 

The Bf 109 G-1 was built in very limited numbers. Few, if any served at Stalingrad.

 

The Yak-7 was not "slow and underpowered" nor was it any less of a full blood fighter than the Yak-1. The Yaks were never particularly suited for ground attack duties. Neither was the Bf 109F.

 

The Bf 110, Ju 88 and Yak-7B are all good choices for an early expansion of BoS though. Other significant additions could be Ju 52, IL-4, Yak-9 or the improved Yak-1 known as the "Yak-1B" (Both Yaks were combat tested at Stalingrad), IAR-80/81 and Bf 109 E-4B.

Yes

[=38=Tatarenko]

Yes Fink.

[bivalov]

good choices for an early expansion of BoS though...Yak-9

according to last information, 32 GIAP got several Yak-9 when already was on Kalininskiy front (ie starting from dec'42).

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

Not that I'm not in favor of adding more historically appropriate aircraft to the mix, but many of your suggestions/matches make little sense:

 

The Pe-3 only ever existed in very small numbers and by the time of BoS was reduced to single aircraft scattered throughout a number of recon squadrons.

 

The Tu-2 was in very limited service in 1942. It only started to serve in numbers in 1944.

 

The MiG-3 was being phased out on most fronts in late 1942. I'm not sure any were in service over Stalingrad. Also, while it was certainly designed for high altitude performance, in reality it was far from a great performer at altitude.

 

The Bf 109 G-1 was built in very limited numbers. Few, if any served at Stalingrad.

 

The Yak-7 was not "slow and underpowered" nor was it any less of a full blood fighter than the Yak-1. The Yaks were never particularly suited for ground attack duties. Neither was the Bf 109F.

 

The Bf 110, Ju 88 and Yak-7B are all good choices for an early expansion of BoS though. Other significant additions could be Ju 52, IL-4, Yak-9 or the improved Yak-1 known as the "Yak-1B" (Both Yaks were combat tested at Stalingrad), IAR-80/81 and Bf 109 E-4B.

 

Great suggestions +1

 

My god, we Russian pilots desperately need that Yak1B or Yak-7. It's tough on the syndicate server but then again I don't think we would have it any other way 

[Madov]

The current plane set is just the beginning I feel. The aircraft list will be fleshed out and there are some great candidates as Finkeren alludes to. I guess it all comes down to the level of success for this the base simulation and how much room for expansion it provides for commercially. If we were limited to 2 each per side as additional aircraft I would choose:

 

Luftwaffe - Ju 52, Ju 88

 

VVS - Yak 1B or 7B, IL-4

[ShamrockOneFive]

I think the list is a fantastic start. Lots of us have talked about desired aircraft in the future.

 

I just hope the price is right. If it stays at $20 an aircraft I'm not sure how many other aircraft I'm going to seriously look at.

[unreasonable]

I suspect that the price will be for a new map + SP "campaign" set + add on aircraft, assuming that BoS is a success (we hope)!

 

The RoF model of selling individual aircraft does not seem so applicable given the need to spread the war across new theatres.

[ACG_KaiLae]

Lend lease planes are missing. P-40's for sure were at Stalingrad. Need P-39, A-20, and B-25. Also should have Yak-7, Yak-1B, IL-4. Germans could use He-177, Ju-88, Hs-129.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I personally hope the developers prioritize the heavy fighters (Bf 110, Ju 88, Pe-3), mostly because heavy fighter matches are a blast to fly!

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Great suggestions +1

 

My god, we Russian pilots desperately need that Yak1B or Yak-7. It's tough on the syndicate server but then again I don't think we would have it any other way 

 

Yak1b is already in game. It's the Yak ingame. At least performance-wise. It should only have one 12,7 mm instead of 7 and bubble canopy. But the first, "normal" Yak-1 was in real life nowhere near the Yak's performance ingame. And the Yak7 was also worse then the Yak1. The one ingame is by far the best Yak you could imagine in a Battle of Stalingrad 

[Elbows]

Someone needs to combine all of these into a "planes we want" thread.  The game is shipping/releasing with the planes listed.  Others will obviously follow.  How/when is up for debate.  I agree with the earlier poster though, I won't be buying more planes at $20 a pop.  The RoF planes are equally if not better built, and are very reasonable, particularly in bulk.  I didn't "think" I'd buy many there, but ended up buying almost all of them.  I do think currently the BoS planes are a step down in many areas compared to the RoF planes, so I'll patiently wait to see what their plans are.

[Brano]

So right now there are some essential aircraft and their counterparts missing.

1. Bf110-F and Bf110-G versus the Pe-3 (a heavier version of the Pe-2 with cannons instead of Shkas MGs) Both fought in Stalingrad.

2. Ju-88 versus Tu-2. Both are medium bomber/heavy fighters both with large caliber cannons available

3. Bf109G-1 vs. MiG-3.  The G-1 was pressurized and GM-1 boosted, the MiG-3 was the only russian production fighter suited for high alt. fighting.

4. Fw190F vs. Yak-7. Both were heavier versions able to carry heavier armament than their light fighter siblings, and suited ground attack but were also rather slow and underpowered.

1. Pe3 is just small series irrelevant plane

2. Ju88 - for sure,on Eastern front it was mainstay medium bomber of LW (much higher volumes then He111) .Tu2? During battle of Stalingrad this plane has been in testing by "prison OKB" of NKVD and put into serial production only in late 1944.One of worst decisions of comrade Stalin,as this plane was ready to be produced in series (if allowed) allready in late 42/early 43.VVS had no modern medium bomber from beginning of Barbarossa till introduction of Tu2!

3. There is no Bf109G1 vs MiG3.In late 1942 remaining MiG3´s were assigned to PVO units (mainly Moscow area).They cant be even compared in way of pressurized cockpit as MiG3 had none.Nontheless it was by far the fastest serial plane in 1940/early41 in the world.Btw it was original project of comrade Polikarpow,not comrade Mikoyan.But that is another (sad) story of soviet "king of fighters".

4.Yak7 was not heavier version.It was stop-gap fighter built on basis of 2seat trainer Yak7 UTI.From this type Yak9 has been developed,incorporating more metals into construction then Yak1 branch,improved cooling of engine and possibility to increas flight radius with more fuel tanks installed (Yak9D and 9DD)

[jeanba]

The Pe3bis was used as a reconnaissance plane over Stalingrad

[JG4_dingsda]

The match(?) I'd like to see is the JU52 vs(?) the Polikarpov I-16, the Mig 3 or one of the other Soviet planes^TM: P-39, P-40, Hawker Hurricane or Spitfire.  
 

[Y-29.Silky]

P-40 : http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/vol3excerpt1.htm

P - 39: http://goo.gl/o4jZJb (Did they come with the La-5's? Maybe they're unconfirmed)

Ju-52: Need I say anything?

Po-2: http://goo.gl/K9bh88
Fw-189: http://goo.gl/ti90Wc

Fw-200: http://www.airpages.ru/eng/lw/fw200.shtml

Bf-110: http://goo.gl/E25ElD

Li-2: http://www.airvectors.net/avc47_2.html

I-16: http://goo.gl/pF6nDG

M.C.202: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.202

 

Yak-3/7: Can't find any confirmation.
A-20: Can't find any confirmation. Few books point to Rostov-On-Don

Ju-88: Can't find any confirmation. Few books point to Rostov-On-Don
Il-4: Can't find any confirmation.

 

B-25: Seriously?

Spitfire: Seriously?
Hurricane: Seriously?
P-47: http://goo.gl/7Wy4wF Seriously?

 

We're getting way carried away, the game isn't even finished yet!

Right now, I think we should focus on begging for aircraft that were actually in the battle. 

 

Btw, here's a cool resource: http://www.stalingrad.net/german-hq/the-stalingrad-airlift/airstat.html

Edited September 30, 2014 by Silky

[LukeFF]

 

 

P - 39: http://goo.gl/o4jZJb (Did they come with the La-5's? Maybe they're unconfirmed)

 

I wouldn't take an advertisement from Packard as confirmation that P-39s flew over Stalingrad. I've seen several lists and read much literature about Soviet activity at Stalingrad, and none of them mention P-39s. P-40s, yes, as there was at least one PVO unit there that that employed them. 

 

La-5s were present for almost the whole battle, there's no disputing that one. 

 

 

 

Yak-3

 

LOL, no.  

[Y-29.Silky]

I wouldn't take an advertisement from Packard as confirmation that P-39s flew over Stalingrad. I've seen several lists and read much literature about Soviet activity at Stalingrad, and none of them mention P-39s. P-40s, yes, as there was at least one PVO unit there that that employed them.

 

Yeah, you're right about the P-39.

 

I misread someone with the Yak-3 for Mig-3, but, here's the Mig-3..

Mig-3: http://i.imgur.com/AaH08J2.png

 

Idk if the "White 04" is before or during the battle.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Silky

[ShamrockOneFive]

If we really want to get into some serious Lend-Lease territory then we should be asking for the Kuban battle. We can get some new German types, a couple of Russian types and a whole bunch of Lend Lease (Spit V, P-39, P-40) to go along.

[ACG_KaiLae]

While it's true that planes that were there should be included, I wouldn't go overboard. Po-2 was there, sure - but why would anyone fly it in game? A biplane that carried a small bomb load and was used in that fashion at night. Servers aren't set for night missions, and even if they are would anyone want to play on them? It was an important plane but it doesn't work for game purposes. Same Mig-3. Well known to be difficult to fly and optimized to be used where combat did not occur. I don't see the point or attraction.

 

As for planes that were not there, it's possible to have too much fidelity at the cost of fun. I'd rather have the planes, and the ease of adding more maps, like the kuban, than hyper OOB accuracy. Besides server operators can not allow inaccurate planes if they want to go that route.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Kai_Lae

[beepee]

I see a few people stating that they won't pay $20 for aircraft in the future.

 

While I whole-heartedly agree that cheaper is better, I also understand that continued development of this sim relies on our continued support as a community.

 

The air combat sim genre of gaming does not attract all that many new players. I think we have had it too good with the old IL2 and the modding community.

 

It would be good to get a breakdown of how much each aircraft actually costs to develop from the devs, but I understand they are probably not willing to part with that information.

 

I'm not saying I really, really WANT to pay $20 per aircraft, but I do know we can't always have our cake and eat it too.

 

Anyway. Back on topic, the Ju-88 and Bf-110 would be great additions for sure.

 

And the Ju-52 would be great, but then surely the VVS equivlent should be there for fairness? I'm not sure if the LI-2 was around in Stalingrad though?

 

Turns out the Li-2 was used in the Battle Of Stalingrad:

 

The Li-2, as night bombers, was actively used in November - December 1942 in the battle of Stalingrad. Starting from airfields in the dark, they came to the Volga, where the searchlights from the left bank was designated lane bombing. Soviet forces held only a narrow strip along the rivers. Therefore, the aircraft immediately began to be released the bomb load.

 

From: http://www.dc3history.org/aircraftmilitary/russianli2.html

Edited September 30, 2014 by =TFK=Beeps

[ShamrockOneFive]

I see a few people stating that they won't pay $20 for aircraft in the future.

 

While I whole-heartedly agree that cheaper is better, I also understand that continued development of this sim relies on our continued support as a community.

 

The air combat sim genre of gaming does not attract all that many new players. I think we have had it too good with the old IL2 and the modding community.

 

It would be good to get a breakdown of how much each aircraft actually costs to develop from the devs, but I understand they are probably not willing to part with that information.

 

I'm not saying I really, really WANT to pay $20 per aircraft, but I do know we can't always have our cake and eat it too.

 

Anyway. Back on topic, the Ju-88 and Bf-110 would be great additions for sure.

 

And the Ju-52 would be great, but then surely the VVS equivlent should be there for fairness? I'm not sure if the LI-2 was around in Stalingrad though?

 

Turns out the Li-2 was used in the Battle Of Stalingrad:

 

From: http://www.dc3history.org/aircraftmilitary/russianli2.html

 

That would be me that specifically said it. I do agree that continued development deserves some sort of pay model. It's a niche market, it probably wouldn't get done to the standards we expect otherwise, etc. However, I still maintain that $20 is a price far too steep for me to be able to feel good about paying which means I just won't do it. I'd rather a new map and 8-10 new planes for $80 than $20 for a single piece of content.

[beepee]

 

 

I'd rather a new map and 8-10 new planes for $80 than $20 for a single piece of content.

 

Good point there. Rather than additional aircraft in dribs and drabs I guess we will see as time goes on.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I'd rather a new map and 8-10 new planes for $80 than $20 for a single piece of content.

 

Kuban Map and 10 additionable planes (109-G6, 190-A5, IAR 81, Hs129, Ju88 / La-5FN, Yak-9D, Airacobra, A-20 Boston, IL-4) 

and after that

Mediterranean Map and 10 additionable planes (Do 17Z, Bf110, Do217, Spit Mk5, early Spit Mk9, P40, P38, Hurricane Mk2, B25 Mitchell, B29 Liberator)

 

i would rather spend 100€ each, then having no additional content. Looking over to DCS, where you have to buy each single plane for 50 bucks, and having minimal additional benefit compared to BoS (not really anything worth mentioning beside the manual startup), i think this is pretty affordable and fair priced

Edited September 30, 2014 by Celestiale

[Creepermoss]

Someone needs to combine all of these into a "planes we want" thread.  The game is shipping/releasing with the planes listed. 

That thread exists, people just don't use the search function, or look at the forums before posting redundant threads.

[JG4_dingsda]

 

 

B-25: Seriously? Spitfire: Seriously? Hurricane: Seriously? P-47: http://goo.gl/7Wy4wF Seriously?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1999-new-poll-which-soviet-plane-do-you-want-bos/

[NimbleZA]

I dont see why we should pay for common aircraft, maybe rare aircraft but definitely not for something that was common in the battle of Stalingrad, like the LA5. I know the devs need money but this game charges AAA costs for a niche game, has very few aircraft and very little actual content compared to all the previous IL2 games. I dont mind paying for expansions but the call of duty type microtransaction system they want to go with really puts me off. 

[FlatSpinMan]

They don't plan to do a micro transaction system. They've said before that they're thinking of 'planes plus map' expansions.

[NimbleZA]

They don't plan to do a micro transaction system. They've said before that they're thinking of 'planes plus map' expansions.

TThat's really good to know, thanks! I was a bit worried when I saw the two premium planes for 20$ each!

[Matt]

Kuban Map and 10 additionable planes (109-G6, 190-A5, IAR 81, Hs129, Ju88 / La-5FN, Yak-9D, Airacobra, A-20 Boston, IL-4) 

and after that

Mediterranean Map and 10 additionable planes (Do 17Z, Bf110, Do217, Spit Mk5, early Spit Mk9, P40, P38, Hurricane Mk2, B25 Mitchell, B29 Liberator)

Except for the lack of Italian aircraft on the Mediterranean map, those would be pretty good packs.

 

I hope they do something like that. Adding a bunch of useful planes instead of worrying about balanced planetypes.

[[TWB]80hd]

I'd REALLY love to see the ability to allow in-game GPS or even just friendly/enemy contact listing on the map as an option if either/both sides have a recon plane airborne and above a certain altitude.

 

It'd obviously just be "simulating" intel gathered by recon planes, but I know there are plenty of people out there that would fly recon specifically for that.

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

I'd REALLY love to see the ability to allow in-game GPS or even just friendly/enemy contact listing on the map as an option if either/both sides have a recon plane airborne and above a certain altitude.

 

It'd obviously just be "simulating" intel gathered by recon planes, but I know there are plenty of people out there that would fly recon specifically for that.

 

That isn't actually a bad idea, Maybe something like that could be implemented for normal difficulty settings. After all the devs want the game to be as friendly a possible for newcomers. Great idea so long as it doesn't touch our beloved Expert difficulty. Unless you are suggesting it would be implemented through radio.    

Edited September 30, 2014 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[Y-29.Silky]

I'd REALLY love to see the ability to allow in-game GPS or even just friendly/enemy contact listing on the map as an option if either/both sides have a recon plane airborne and above a certain altitude.

 

It'd obviously just be "simulating" intel gathered by recon planes, but I know there are plenty of people out there that would fly recon specifically for that.

Nice idea, but I wouldn't like it on the map. Maybe radio calls or something. But yeah, as long as it doesn't touch Expert with the map thing.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Silky

[Brano]

I see a few people stating that they won't pay $20 for aircraft in the future.

 

I just pissed 20$ of beer down the toilet.Was it worth it?I dunno.Will see later in the morning.20$ too much for cute little virtual digital plane?You cant be serious

[Gambit21]

I dont see why we should pay for common aircraft, maybe rare aircraft but definitely not for something that was common in the battle of Stalingrad, 

Especially when the Dev's have a "make excellent aircraft" button that they can push which instantly creates the 3D aircraft exterior model, 3D cockpit, LOD's, 

textures, animations and damage model and sounds without using any of the teams resources whatsoever. This is only possible with the more common aircraft.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

I'd REALLY love to see the ability to allow in-game GPS or even just friendly/enemy contact listing on the map as an option if either/both sides have a recon plane airborne and above a certain altitude.

 

It'd obviously just be "simulating" intel gathered by recon planes, but I know there are plenty of people out there that would fly recon specifically for that.

 Please no.... we'll just end up like war thunder arcade mode with thousands of little teenagers with no respect for real people that could actually knock their teeth out if they were in the same room. 

[NimbleZA]

Especially when the Dev's have a "make excellent aircraft" button that they can push which instantly creates the 3D aircraft exterior model, 3D cockpit, LOD's, 

textures, animations and damage model and sounds without using any of the teams resources whatsoever. This is only possible with the more common aircraft.

Theres no need to be sarcastic and rude. I never said its easy to make, its ridiculous to pay for a plane separately. Most other games you buy the game and you get all planes in the game. Its a different story if the game is FTP or an MMO but this game is neither.

[bzc3lk]

I just pissed 20$ of beer down the toilet.Was it worth it?I dunno.Will see later in the morning.20$ too much for cute little virtual digital plane?You cant be serious

 

 Big +1 to that.