Just my personal opinion and expectation for BOS

[cyberwings]

Hi everyone,

 

Is good to be back to the il-2 community, a couple of days ago I pre-order the premium edición of Batte of Stalingrad.

 

In these days I'm enjoing very much a modded version of Cliff of Dover. I know that this sim has a lots of unresolved Bugs, nevertheless CoD has raise the bar a lot since il-2 1946, the landscape is incredible beautiful and detailed and engine management brings to this sim a new level of inmersion.

 

I know that BOS is a less ambitious project in some features, no clickable cockpits (I'm fine with that) and less detailed cockpits (allthough they still looks amazing in the screenshots showns in this web site. Anyway I really think I'm going to enjoy BOS very much since the Russian front is one of my favorites theatre of operations.

 

Just a couple of concerns:

 

Is flight mode and engine management going to be less complex in BOS? I really hope not!

 

Lots of snow during Stalingrad winter but can we expect maps as detailed as the Channel map for CoD in futuro developments?

 

S!

[76SQN-J0NJ0N]

Wouldn't be so sure on the less detailed cockpits, can't imagine them cutting many corners there. Engine management will be less complex, I think they said fuel mix, prop pitch and radiator.

 

Have a look at Rise of Flight screenshots, the landscapes will be better than CoD, be sure of that. 

[Finkeren]

CEM will be a bit more complex than just pitch, mix and radiator.

 

Wouldn't be so sure on the less detailed cockpits, can't imagine them cutting many corners there. Engine management will be less complex, I think they said fuel mix, prop pitch and radiator.

 

Have a look at Rise of Flight screenshots, the landscapes will be better than CoD, be sure of that. 

CEM will propably have a few features beside pitch, mix and radiator (for instance supercharger) but quite a few other systems will be simplified (engine start up and radio) or automated altogether (fuel tank management) But keep in mind that even the systems which are automated will still be modelled realistically and in great detail. Even though fuel management isn't controllable by the player, it's still very much a part of the sim, and it's my hope, that we'll even see realistic ranges for the on board radios modelled.

 

To truly appreciate, how much better RoFs landscapes look, you shouldn't compare with screen shots. ClODs terrain can look absolutely stunning in still images. Instead compare the two sims in motion and you'll see why RoF is far superior with it's awesome LOD technology, great performance and crisp and well balanced detail (not to mention the fact, that you can actually crash into trees)

[Heywooood]

not likely to see click pits if thats your question - but there will be CEM - different from RoF because lets face it - all the WWI crates need is a blip switch, mags, throttle and maybe a radiator open/close lever and fuel valve...basic

 

certainly no one is making the mistake of comparing WWI CEM to WWII CEM...are they?

 

I expect to have mixture, prop control, WEP or equal, Flaps, Landing Gear, etc in addition to the basic RoF level controls - why not?

[=69.GIAP=YSTREB]

Speaking of terrain I prefer Clod even though no tree collision hope they make small eye candy avatar style map for online dogfight like Clod terrain or even better quality!

Edited August 22, 2013 by =69.GIAP=Yastreb

[BlitzPig_EL]

Never understood all the gushing over RoFs landscape.

 

It's always reminded me of a water color post card, or an illustration from a children's book, not to mention that it is devoid of any feeling of human population, and the "Front" is just laughable.

 

I hope that BoS is a quantum leap ahead of this, it needs to be.

[gavagai]

not likely to see click pits if thats your question - but there will be CEM - different from RoF because lets face it - all the WWI crates need is a blip switch, mags, throttle and maybe a radiator open/close lever and fuel valve...basic

 

certainly no one is making the mistake of comparing WWI CEM to WWII CEM...are they?

 

I expect to have mixture, prop control, WEP or equal, Flaps, Landing Gear, etc in addition to the basic RoF level controls - why not?

 

I fly the DCS P-51 a lot and the only control I use a lot in flight that you don't have in a WW1 crate is RPM.  That said, RoF does not include the full pilot workload for engine management.  Some of the WW1 scouts required the pilot to periodically pressurize the fuel tank with a hand pump.  Overheating was a concern, but it is *impossible* to overheat a rotary in RoF, and you have to be super daft to overheat a scout with a water cooled engine (either type of scout can run at 100% power all of the time).  Blipping was also extremely bad for a rotary engine but there is no consequence for it in RoF.

 

In short, there was more to engine management in WW1 than you might think, but everything is *very* streamlined in RoF.  I hope it is less streamlined in BoS.  The big thing I'm going to look for is how (whether) airspeed affects engine cooling.

[Mac_Messer]

I expect to have mixture, prop control, WEP or equal, Flaps, Landing Gear, etc in addition to the basic RoF level controls - why not?

I expect those features to actually work instead of just having them.

[Finkeren]

I expect those features to actually work instead of just having them.

Why wouldn't they work?

[Recon]

CEM DM and FM  - the 3 keys to a great flight sim    

 

 

All in all, at least for the fighters, throttle, pitch, radiator, mix are probably just about all that is needed wouldn't you say ?

 

It's always a bonus to have workable compass and clock  (I assume flaps, gear, etc...)

 

But when we say 'complex engine management' - I think in terms of proper boost/rpm/mix/rads  at the corresponding altitudes, engine failure you don't follow the particular planes historical setup, etc... 

 

What is the line between being a flight combat 'simulator' or just a arcade flight game ? 

 

Controlling the ammo belts in Cliffs of Dover was a great feature, wouldn't mind something like that.

 

I'm very interested in the damage model complexity myself - ability to damage internal systems, cables, etc... nothing is more frustrating than unloading on an enemy plane and watching them continue to twist and turn as if nothing happened!

[gavagai]

Sorry, apparently what I said before is not accurate.  I've been told you can overheat a rotary engine in RoF by deliberately running it too lean.

[Mac_Messer]

Why wouldn't they work?

In the original IL2 series the CEM was not only rather simplified but also non effective in many aircraft. The engines in them reacted less than marginally to changes made in mixture, radiator, prop pitch, supercharger stage settings. So the features were there, they just didn`t have any influence on flying the aircraft. It is obvious that historically WWII aircraft had different engine operating systems, some simpler, some more complicated. That said, a true combat flight simulator should recreate what should be - and that is managing poorly your engine will cause it to give out worse than optimal (combat) performance and in some cases lead it to shutting down altoghether.

 

Obviously moreover, if the pilot that has to take care of the engine, it meant that he was often at a tactical disadvantage against pilots who flew aircraft with similar engine systems being automated or more idiot friendly.

[Finkeren]

In the original IL2 series the CEM was not only rather simplified but also non effective in many aircraft. The engines in them reacted less than marginally to changes made in mixture, radiator, prop pitch, supercharger stage settings. So the features were there, they just didn`t have any influence on flying the aircraft. It is obvious that historically WWII aircraft had different engine operating systems, some simpler, some more complicated. That said, a true combat flight simulator should recreate what should be - and that is managing poorly your engine will cause it to give out worse than optimal (combat) performance and in some cases lead it to shutting down altoghether.

 

Obviously moreover, if the pilot that has to take care of the engine, it meant that he was often at a tactical disadvantage against pilots who flew aircraft with similar engine systems being automated or more idiot friendly.

Well all that is pretty obvious, but BoS is not IL2, and with the digital Nature engine in RoF we see, that even the few things that are automated such as engine startup and fuel management are modelled well and behave realistically.

[Tektolnes]

With FM & CEM once we have to fly our crates more or less in line with the documentation out there then I'll be happy. When CLOD came out it was pure nonsense - you could safely pull huge g forces, engines would quit for no good reason, Merlin rumbles even though you were climbing by the book, etc. At least TF have fixed up some of those. DCS P51 is the benchmark out there but I'm not expecting that overall level from BOS. So long as planes are pretty close to the docs and if we have the opportunity to handle a reasonable amount of manual pilot workload where our inputs produce realistic results in full switch servers then that should keep a lot of people happy. 

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

CEM DM and FM  - the 3 keys to a great flight sim 

 

Indeed! The question is what to put the most effort into. If I am understanding Jason & Co correctly, they will put more effort into the FM rather than the CEM, at least for the initial release. To me at least, that makes sense. No use fiddling endlessly with knowns and levers if the FM is off in the first place.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

CEM DM and FM  - the 3 keys to a great flight sim  

 

 

 

 

Your missing AI, just as important to the offliners.

[PauloHirth]

   I believe in BOS Teams, i know is starting and we will find ever a thing to fix or improve...  but hope find a new generation FM, realism sensation with effects, freedom for mods like "FLY BY SOUND" (Low pass engine sound) and others...

[Furio]

What I hope is that BoS will have as many realistic features as possible, but also as many optional features as possible. What’s a lot of fun for a simmer could be utterly annoying for another.

 

A simple switch on or off would make everyone happy.

[JG4Helofly]

I am a fan of realism but I would say this. In a game which has a focus on air combat, the simulation of every single lever is not required imo, as long as the systems work in a realistic way.

Exemple: in clod we have the fuel shut off valve and the manual fuelpump which must be operated in order to start the engine (bf 109). The thing is, you don't need these controls after engine start. That's why I wouldn't mind having automatic controls for such operations (like the "I" key to start the engine like in the old IL2).

[FuriousMeow]

That will never happen unless you do it illegally.

[SKG51_robtek]

The CEM for a fighter should be so complex that it simulates the real workload for a Pilot before, during and after the fight.

The CEM for a bomber should include trimming, fuel switching and transfering, engine leaning for best performance or endurance AND all weather flight and navigation instrumentation.

IMHO, of course.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Hence the basic problem facing all sim developers, to wit...

 

How do we please the largest cross section of our customer base?

[HagarTheHorrible]

Basically I expect RoF, except with a new map and new planes.

 

Would I be disappointed with that ? No not really. RoF certainly had it's issues but was otherwise a good solid game that was enjoyable to play. By moving on some of the baggage that came with RoF will be lost, so in essence we will end up with a good solid game that's enjoyable to play but without some of the acrimony that has dogged it's older brother. A big advantage though is that BoS will have a much firmer base from which to start as there is vastly more information out there, that was written with a much better understanding of the priniples of flight and testing methodologies, from which to draw conclusions.

 

I've bought the Premium edition on that understanding, maybe there will be surprises here and there along the way but I'm trying to be realistic at what it's possible to produce in the timeframe that they have available.

 

If anybody out there is expecting something revolutionary rather than evolutionary then I fear they may be disappointed.

[Furio]

Hence the basic problem facing all sim developers, to wit...

 

How do we please the largest cross section of our customer base?

With options. As many as possible.

[VeryOldMan]

Hence the basic problem facing all sim developers, to wit...

 

How do we please the largest cross section of our customer base?

 

 

Not only that, but cost of development and potential impact on bugs etc. A simplified system at start is far more logical. THey  do not want to  remake the  #!@#!@ that CoD was, and the main reason CoD  was  that way is because they aimed too muich complexity  and  details at  day zero. That is a HUGE mistake, commign from  the POV of  a guy wiith 20 years of  quie complex software development.   THe main rule for successful project is ..star t  LOW.