Growing pains

[HagarTheHorrible]

There is no doubt that Multi-player is where it's at when it comes to combat flight sims, however good, or bad, the A.I is, nothing beats the challenge of fighting another human.  It is however a rather vicious meritocracy, which is good for the good, bad for the not so good but down right disasterous for combat flight sims.

 

Having played RoF for several years it was painfully obvious that the A.I didn't adequatly prepare players for the online world and Vpilots dipping their toes into the online ether for the first time probably felt highly discouraged, in all likley hood too the point of giving up and going "Whats the point ? I can't compete".

 

Often those going around swatting down Newbies are probably fairly new to the game themselves, they just have the resilience, if no manners, to hang around a little longer.  Frustrated at being shot down themselves by other, more experienced players they feed their egos by mobbing Newbies, chopping the game off at its roots and draining away it's very life blood.  It would be unfair solely to blame them though as even reasonable or good players, who really should know better, stroke their egos by swatting down obvious Newbies rather than nuturing them and helping them develop the skills to live a little longer, enough to start enjoying themselves.

 

It might be argued that this vicious meritocracy is killing the genre we love.

 

What can be done to help Vpilots, new to the online world,  prosper and therefore stick around long enough to start enjoying themselves and the challenges that fo with it ?

 

RoF had/has various training servers that, it might be argued, cater to the online virgins, but the problem was/is, from my experience, that they still had a cohort of regular Vpilots, good enough and practiced enough to hack down Vpilots fresh from the factory, often loading things, as far as possible in their favour, choosing the best aircraft and hanging around opposition airfields  attaking players who have taken off but are still at a disadvantage of speed and altitude.  It was highly discouraging to see players who really should have known better attacking, again and again, the same targets rather than helping them along and giving them a fair chance.

 

So what can be done to help encourage new blood into the game and more importantly give them the life skills to stick around in this modern world were if something looks or feels dificult it's easy to drift away to pastures new ?

 

A small suggestion, for what it's worth (didn't you just know that was coming ) that you can take or leave as you please, but constructive ideas are, well more constructive, so please feel free to comment and add your thoughts on how to improve the experience, if indeed it's needed in the first place.  

 

As with RoF, an online training server, however rather than a selection of planes, that give more practiced or knowlegable Vpilots a mechanical advantage, whether it be turn or speed, whatever, only one plane is available so that pilotage and success is down more  to skill rather than the best ride.  The differentiator would soley be down to affiliation/side colour, red or yellow for example but it could be anything, just so that it is obvious and easily seen. More experienced Vpilots wishing to help or instruct could use the same aircraft of the same base colour but with a clearly distinct identifier, such as stripes for example, to help identify themselves so that Newbies know who to follow, watch or form up on rather than trying to memorize the personal tags of different players.

 

I know it's not much of an idea but  I feel we do need to need to do everything possible to try and expand the reach of our hobbie to new blood and keeping it once it's coursing through our viens.

 

It's for all of our benefits.

[RAF74_Winger]

One word: Squadrons

 

Squadrons are the bedrock of any flight simulator - for new players they provide training, back-up and cameraderie. For the rest of the community they organise wars, campaigns and many other special events.

 

Imagine if the main game screen - where one chooses missions, joins a dogfight server and what have you - had a tab called 'Join a Squadron' with relevant links to open an external web browser pointed at the squadron's homepage, suitably sorted by timezone, language, mission types, preferred airforce, realism settings etc.

 

I think that many new players would quickly find a home that suited them if that were included in the game. Obviously squadrons would have to provide a description of themselves within a certain number of characters plus a web link to their home page. I don't think that collating all that information and presenting it in-game would prove to be too onerous to the developers.

 

W.

Edited August 21, 2013 by RAF74_Winger

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Statistics from back in old IL2 days was that only one in ten players were on-liners. While I agree with both of you regarding newbies and squadrons, the basal assumption that "multi-player is where it's at" is not correct.

[Streiff]

The question is, why is that, the one in ten i mean?

Edited August 21, 2013 by Baron

[RAF74_Winger]

Statistics from back in old IL2 days was that only one in ten players were on-liners. While I agree with both of you regarding newbies and squadrons, the basal assumption that "multi-player is where it's at" is not correct.

 

You're absolutely correct. However, I've always wondered if the low percentage of online players was simply due to lack of knowledge about what might be available outside the offline experience. My proposal was to make it clear to players who have bought the game off the shelf, with no previous experience of flight sims and who may not visit the forums, that there is a wider world available to those who care to try it.

 

If it weren't for the squadron that I joined, I'm not sure that I'd even be reading this forum.

 

W.

Edited August 21, 2013 by RAF74_Winger

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

You're absolutely correct. However, I've always wondered if the low percentage of online players was simply due to lack of knowledge about what might be available outside the offline experience. My proposal was to make it clear to players who have bought the game off the shelf, with no previous experience of flight sims and who may not visit the forums, that there is a wider world available to those who care to try it.

 

W.

 

The best thing would probably be if the game itself had a way to encourage the newbies to go on-line and find squadrons.

[RAF74_Winger]

The best thing would probably be if the game itself had a way to encourage the newbies to go on-line and find squadrons.

 

Rem acu tetigisti.

 

W.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

One word: Squadrons

 

Squadrons are the bedrock of any flight simulator - for new players they provide training, back-up and cameraderie. For the rest of the community they organise wars, campaigns and many other special events.

 

Imagine if the main game screen - where one chooses missions, joins a dogfight server and what have you - had a tab called 'Join a Squadron' with relevant links to open an external web browser pointed at the squadron's homepage, suitably sorted by timezone, language, mission types, preferred airforce, realism settings etc.

 

I think that many new players would quickly find a home that suited them if that were included in the game. Obviously squadrons would have to provide a description of themselves within a certain number of characters plus a web link to their home page. I don't think that collating all that information and presenting it in-game would prove to be too onerous to the developers.

 

W.

That is the easy answer! But the people in the squadron have to fit, and having members spread across the globe is not going to

give much flying time together due to time zones. For a functionalble squadron you need like minded people who are more or less on

the same page. Otherwise you have a group of solo fliers sporting a squadron logo but thats about it.

 

There have been many of that sort!

 

Then if you fancy flying something the majority does not like to fly like bombers,

the choice gets very very thin!

That is why the answer squadrons only partly fits.

[Panzerlang]

Two words: Realistic missions.

[6S.Manu]

That is the easy answer! But the people in the squadron have to fit, and having members spread across the globe is not going to

give much flying time together due to time zones. For a functionalble squadron you need like minded people who are more or less on

the same page. Otherwise you have a group of solo fliers sporting a squadron logo but thats about it.

 

I fully agree; squadrons can differ in many way. You have to find the right one, otherwise it could be a really bad experience.

 

IMO some rules should be followed when flying online:

• the expert pilots should always be friendly with newbies: an expert guy can easily recognise newbies by watching their mistakes. If you're sure that one is a new guy, when some help and advices can do not harm. Avoid the words "noob", "moron", "idiot" and so on. There are some really ugly game communities enough out there: combat flight sims are mostly for mature people and so we should always act as adult persons.
• the newbie should be humble: I've seen too many players fade aways since, as Hagar says, "Whats the point ? I can't compete".
• the server's rules should not allow lame tactics, as vulching or capping the only available airbase: if the newbie takes off again from the same base and whines about his countless deaths, just answer in a adult way, never mock him.
• be aware that mistakes are always possible: if a guy just steal your kill in front of you, it does not mean this one is a professional kill stealer... it could always be a single mistake. For the same reasons the pilots should be active on the chat: a "sorry" is always welcome. If the guy keeps doing wrong (for example shoulder shooting or friendly killing) advice him in an adult way.
• servers should link TS servers and troubleshooting threads: the lazy newbies have to realize that questioning other players should be the last step. But this is a way of life...

Edited August 21, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Zmaj76]

Two words: Realistic missions.

Absolutely. Realistic (historical?) missions + correct FM ( of relative performances between planes; as possible) + teamplay....add to that SEOW missions (I hope should be possible with more ground units in BOS engine?) and you will have MP heaven...ofcourse, there should always be fast food dogfight servers for ppl who love such style...

Edited August 21, 2013 by Tvrdi

[NastyDog]

 

 

I fully agree; squadrons can differ in many way. You have to find the right one, otherwise it could be a really bad experience.

 

IMO some rules should be followed when flying online:

• the expert pilots should always be friendly with newbies: an expert guy can easily recognise newbies by watching their mistakes. If you're sure that one is a new guy, when some help and advices can do not harm. Avoid the words "noob", "moron", "idiot" and so on. There are some really ugly game communities enough out there: combat flight sims are mostly for mature people and so we should always act as adult persons.
• the newbie should be humble: I've seen too many players fade aways since, as Hagar says, "Whats the point ? I can't compete".
• the server's rules should not allow lame tactics, as vulching or capping the only available airbase: if the newbie takes off again from the same base and whines about his countless deaths, just answer in a adult way, never mock him.
• be aware that mistakes are always possible: if a guy just steal your kill in front of you, it does not mean this one is a professional kill stealer... it could always be a single mistake. For the same reasons the pilots should be active on the chat: a "sorry" is always welcome. If the guy keeps doing wrong (for example shoulder shooting or friendly killing) advice him in an adult way.
• servers should link TS servers and troubleshooting threads: the lazy newbies have to realize that questioning other players should be the last step. But this is a way of life...

 

 

Me is one of that new noobies in flight sims ,it,s a totaly new game gerne fore me .

I hope that this comunetie is a little helpfule whit the new player base gamer

What i found out is on the forum is the adult style of comments in the the forum post topics

it,s more serious and i like that .

 

PS: In future you see me fly like a drunken duck shot me please down   and be so courteous to ask me if i need some help  

regaards NastyDog

[Recon]

One word: Squadrons

 

Squadrons are the bedrock of any flight simulator - for new players they provide training, back-up and cameraderie. For the rest of the community they organise wars, campaigns and many other special events.

 

Imagine if the main game screen - where one chooses missions, joins a dogfight server and what have you - had a tab called 'Join a Squadron' with relevant links to open an external web browser pointed at the squadron's homepage, suitably sorted by timezone, language, mission types, preferred airforce, realism settings etc.

 

I think that many new players would quickly find a home that suited them if that were included in the game. Obviously squadrons would have to provide a description of themselves within a certain number of characters plus a web link to their home page. I don't think that collating all that information and presenting it in-game would prove to be too onerous to the developers.

 

W.

 

100% agree.   My past went through this same route.  I learned but the basics many moons ago.  There is so much I didn't know around flying that I learned from knowledgable experienced squad mates.

 

Winger is spot on.   I've seen many new people come in and get directed to joining squadrons.  In a small community such as ours, it's critical to building the community.  So not only should they join a squadron, but in my opinion, the experienced ones on the server can do their part by saying 'hey, you should join a squadron'.

 

One thing I always recommend first is to get the new pilot on teamspeak.  Once they are there, giving advice such as joining a squadron can help.

 

This is why I love when particular servers have their own dedicated TS - this helps people meet other people and increases the flying experience online

[leitmotiv]

I think it would be good to hear from guys who play only offline whay they play only offline.

 

For me when i started on IL2 i played years only offline (lack of net), when i played first online sortie i kiled frendly thinking its all vs all , i played from cocpit only in servers where they have open pits with padlocks and outside views, i didnt know how the heck they see me so fast, as offline i played with cocpit on and no outside views thinking this is how they play on all online servers , and i was geting kiled all the time, it took me months atleast to figured out whats what, and to become somehow competitive in simple DF servers. Playing offline and thinking im good at it didnt preper me for online skiled players and having humans as oponents.

Joining squadron speed up process of figuring online things out, and if i knew about online campaign, for me coming at that time from offline campaigns, transition would be more normal then starting my first online game play on DF servers

[JG4Helofly]

It does not surpise me that there are more offline pilots. It's simple: If you want to have fun online the best thing to do is join a squad (as some have mentioned). But joining a groupe means also a bigger time investment. Most people who play games just want to have some quick fun after work, fly a mission, kill one or two enemys and then do something else.

So Unless it's your hobby, you won't fly much online.

That's my theorie.

[HagarTheHorrible]

AKA-recon said:

One thing I always recommend first is to get the new pilot on teamspeak. Once they are there, giving advice such as joining a squadron can help.

 

 

Would it help if the comm's was in game rather than a separate program ? I know TS is good but for someone just getting started it's one more hurdle to jump, if maybe to the initiated, only a small one.

[LLv34_Untamo]

S!

 

Absolutely agree on the squadrons part. I've always been interested flying and flight sims, and been playing them offline ever since I got my first computer in ~96. I tried IL-2 when it came out, and now I had even a internet connection. But online world was totally a mystery to me in flight sims, and I had no friends to fly with online, so I only dabbled with the offline side of it.

 

In short, I had no idea that there was this sizeable community online, squadrons and all, as in people/friends to fly with. I knew about clans in FPS games, but had no idea there were squadrons or anything similar and more importantly, how to get in contact with them.

 

It wasn't until 2008, until I met a like minded fellow where I then worked. We started to look into this weird online world together, googling stuff and flying on some DF servers. By chance, as were flying on one server, it was then to run a SEOW campaign mission and the admin shooed everyone away .. We asked if could we hop along, and it was okay for them. The rest is history as they say

 

TL;DR;

Flying with no friends -> no fun. Flying with friends -> fun.

[6S.Manu]

It wasn't until 2008, until I met a like minded fellow where I then worked. We started to look into this weird online world together, googling stuff and flying on some DF servers. By chance, as were flying on one server, it was then to run a SEOW campaign mission and the admin shooed everyone away .. We asked if could we hop along, and it was okay for them. The rest is history as they say

 

I remember that SEOW mission we have flown in the same wing and above all the damned P47 who disappeared on the landscape while diving away from me... those are things I can't forget! 

 

Flying with no friends -> no fun. Flying with friends -> fun.

It says it all. 

[theOden]

Started off flying solo and expanded into flying MP a few years and now I'm back flying solo where no one ruins a good flight night

[6S.Manu]

Started off flying solo and expanded into flying MP a few years and now I'm back flying solo where no one ruins a good flight night

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Noobs should be encouraged to get on teamspeak.  They'll still get killed a lot, but at least they'll be able to hear someone pretending that he's not using them as bait.

[SCG_Neun]

I started heavily into online and by necessity had to revert to offline due to my rural setting and only satellite for connection.  I can affirm that nothing....compares to organized online squadron based mission flying.  For off-liners, well we need good AI, the ability to give orders to them, and have them respond in a realistic fashion.  Our immersion, needs authentic sound, FM,CEM,  damage modeling, and of course, the eye candy of recreating the theatre graphically.  Career progression, good briefings, and after stats.  Of course the dynamic campaign generator for BOS would make this sim a big hit for off-liners as well.  To liven things up some.....we could form a group among ourselves and create some "surprise" missions to spice up the "getting bounced" feeling.   Of course, full realism for our missions, and a way to score our prowess, among the group, since we can't experience those kinds of online accomplishments.  We need some aggressive AI with that "jump you" mentality.....Well okay.....programmed mentality......IL-2 had some decent AI as far as following orders......and anyone that played around with the AI patrolling in DID and the like can attest to the aggressiveness.  I hope BOS gives us the flexibility to create the white knuckled feeling of the online wars, but I know....nothing will be as good, as online and the squadrons.

[Zak]

Note to myself: don't forget to add a small window that gives description of every MP server and of a TS server used on it

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Note to myself: don't forget to add a small window that gives description of every MP server and of a TS server used on it

Not ingame whilst flying though please. I would like the option to turn everything off, unlike in RoF where you have that strange square online on top.

[csThor]

Well ... I am an offliner by choice for several reasons.

 

1.) My online and squadron time has been over for a decade. I can't justify spending much of my little freetime on a squadron. And, in fact, I don't want to. My job alternates between stressful chaos and mind-numbing boredom with rarely a moment of balance in between the two. I find myself drained in the evening and prefer to "chill out" and recharge my batteries. As a result I rarely fly more than one or two missions a day, often none at all. Simply because I'm far too tired.

 

2.) I have a very hardcore attitude to historical facts. OOBs come straight out of history books without any adaptation for "fairness". This style isn't present online (or it requires far more effort than I am willing to spend).

 

3.) Online, for the most part, is IMO a total clusterf*** with too much e-sports/duel of two knights/gangbang-menthality for my likes. An overabundance of fighters and fighter-bombers and a total lack of what I consider historical realism (realistic targets that match the historical battle, accurate balance between aircraft types, etc) makes most of what I've seen online over the years pretty repetitive and drab. Just my 0,02 € ...

[SCG_Neun]

Well ... I am an offliner by choice for several reasons.

 

1.) My online and squadron time has been over for a decade. I can't justify spending much of my little freetime on a squadron. And, in fact, I don't want to. My job alternates between stressful chaos and mind-numbing boredom with rarely a moment of balance in between the two. I find myself drained in the evening and prefer to "chill out" and recharge my batteries. As a result I rarely fly more than one or two missions a day, often none at all. Simply because I'm far too tired.

 

2.) I have a very hardcore attitude to historical facts. OOBs come straight out of history books without any adaptation for "fairness". This style isn't present online (or it requires far more effort than I am willing to spend).

 

3.) Online, for the most part, is IMO a total clusterf*** with too much e-sports/duel of two knights/gangbang-menthality for my likes. An overabundance of fighters and fighter-bombers and a total lack of what I consider historical realism (realistic targets that match the historical battle, accurate balance between aircraft types, etc) makes most of what I've seen online over the years pretty repetitive and drab. Just my 0,02 € ...

I agree totally with you, especially on point 2.  I will say the online historical arenas like DID and IOW had a very accurate historical feel to them, but my experience online is way too old to make any comparisons to the arenas today.  Let's keep our fingers crossed for some great offline features.  Also historical arenas come in a variety of variables.  I can't help but think that the community will come up with one that adheres to realism as much as possible.  The host server defines the parameters.....At least it used to...Hope that flexibility is still there.

Edited August 21, 2013 by 9./JG54JagdNeun

[JG4Helofly]

I also agree with Thor on the historical accuracy online. I can totaly understand that some people want the exact same conditions on the battlefield as it was in RL. And that's were the E-sport aspect commes into play. When you fight online, you want to take part in a competition. No one wants to have a much inferior plane to fight the other side. If you are in a running competition you would also protest if someone would have a 1 minute head start. To have a fair competition some realism has to be taken away. In addition to what has already been mentioned, random failures wouldn't be welcome, the same goes for production quality of the aircraft.

In the end everyone must find what he is after. Full immersion in a realistic offline world or less immersion and realism for online competition.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Well I am mainly a online flier, but server does not equal server, some do look into making maps and mission goals that have a certain amount of depth.

others are like csThor mentioned point 3, a total waste of time joining. Depending what you are looking for you have to spend a certain amount of time

until you find the server of your liking. The "Warbirds of Prey" servers where among the better ones in my opinion. But I prefer maps with missions and not

just plain e-sports. And yes I very much enjoy the underdog role, as I almost solely fly bombers. As for the squadron bit and bombers, well I have made the experiance

it is more enjoyable flying with older pilots than with a bunch of over excited very young pilots. But that is a matter of preferance.

 

[76SQN-FatherTed]

I think squadrons are the answer to encouraging more players online.  My IL2 squad is more of a group of guys who get together to fly, than a structured clan with training, attendance requirements and so on.  I  only point that out because joining a "squad" need not be a big commitment.  One such as ours does however give a newcomer a "safe" environment in which to get to grips with the game.

 

One thing is though: are we still part of the online community?  By this I mean that we operate a closed server - we're not on HyperLobby. Does anyone have an idea of the size of this "hidden" online community in IL2 or RoF?

[6S.Manu]

I think that historical accuracy can be reached by mission design (objectives, planeset, rules to force the player to play in a fitting way); the exceptions are pilots' skill (the average virtual pilot is more experienced than the historical one) and some realistic situations (because of the sim itself: DM, FM ect).

 

Things like pilots' psycological effects (panic, fear to die) are partially reproducible as in a DID environment the players prefer RTB compared to a fight without initial advantage.

 

Now if some players prefer to play against limited AIs pretending that those are more fitting to reality than human pilots, then I can't change their mind. Let me only say that most of the human pilots will not act as newbies, but no one of the Ace AI will ever act as an historical ace (nor even a veteran one!).

 

IMO.

Edited August 21, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[No601_Swallow]

The best thing would probably be if the game itself had a way to encourage the newbies to go on-line and find squadrons.

 

If BoS uses a Launch screen/app/thingy like RoF, maybe there could be a permanent web link on the launch page (or "news" tab) to, say, the "Virtual Squadrons" page (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/17-virtual-squadrons/) on this very forum! Ideally that page could be indexed and standardised (so it's easy to find a serious, historically-based coop squad, perhaps, or a casual DF have-a-laugh type of squadron, for instance, as well as the appropriate time zone and language). 

 

Even if it was just a link to the squadrons page, it would be better than nothing! 

Edited August 21, 2013 by No601_Swallow

[BraveSirRobin]

There should also be a link to the "unofficial" 777 teamspeak server.

[Yellowsub]

My 2 cents.

 

I enjoyed the MP in IL2:Sturmovik even tough I am not an ACE. However since my kill/death ratio was probably 1:5 on a good day, I gravitated more toward doing bombing runs or ground attacks instead. So it would be important that BOS overs those mission goals im in MP too instead of only airkills.  Also make the maps big enough so you can sneak around and don't have to go trough the furball all the time.

 

I have only tried ROF MP once it was was more or less one big TDM furball with the bases a few KM appart, you can select Bombers too but I am not sure how they counted toward winning the map/round.

[HagarTheHorrible]

From the posts so far it seems that there is a small consensus around promoting Squadrons.  What, if anything, could be done to develop that idea and make it more attractive and approachable to new players ?  I must confess that although having played flight sims for more years than I care to remember I never got around to joining a squad.

 

A more organized and colourful Squdron page showing different squads, who they are, where they're from, age range, ethos etc etc ? 

 

Freshers week introductions and promotions ? 

 

Faux adverts, for example in the manner of recruiting posters or Bioshock type adverts  in game when you go to the online servers section etc?

Edited August 21, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[ATAG_Slipstream]

An ingame 'chat' lobby would go a long way to helping new people...

[FuriousMeow]

I looked forward to RBII/3D's campaign system and enjoyed it thoroughly. Until the MMP portion with dedicated servers was released.

 

I have been unable to play single player since.

[6S.Manu]

From the posts so far it seems that there is a small consensus around promoting Squadrons. 

 

Because there are few active squad members in this forum. I'm the only 6S here, but in my squad there are more than 20 pilots and they don't look at this board (lazy guys!)

Edited August 21, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Peshka]

There is no doubt that Multi-player is where it's at when it comes to combat flight sims.....

 

The doubt is in place for many many people who are liking combat flight sims ...

 

I try to give one example of the problem with the way it is for many of some people.

In IL-2 1946 some time before I have friends that say Hay! we shall be online it is the better way to fly the game!

 

We have 4 pilots and we all go to bomber pilots. this server in the Heinkell 111.

We join the server and make nice take of and my friend says in the server talk .."hello .. we are the bombers 4 ... can we have fighters for escort?

 

Yes! a few say and they fly to help us ... this is good is how we think ..

 

The fighters fly very close to us for the formatoin fly and one crashes into my friend !!! he is destroyed

 

He said it is ok and we 3 fly on. the fighters stop the close danger and we go to the target. Now we have 3 bombers and 3 fighters to help us.

 

One enemy fighter attcks us and all  3 fighters of our team go to kill him when he runs away ....

 

Now we bombers have no escort ...

 

We 3 bombers are shot down to attack the target

 

The online pilots of fighters are no good for the bomber pilot.

The AI pilots of fighters are yes stupid but they try to help the bomber pilot. It is more like history.

 

The internet online game is never close to history.

 

This is the reason many pilots do not like the internet online flight sim game ... it is not what was the history.

[FuriousMeow]

Aside from the collision, that's closer to history than the fighter pilots staying close to protect.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

The doubt is in place for many many people who are liking combat flight sims ...

 

I try to give one example of the problem with the way it is for many of some people.

In IL-2 1946 some time before I have friends that say Hay! we shall be online it is the better way to fly the game!

 

We have 4 pilots and we all go to bomber pilots. this server in the Heinkell 111.

We join the server and make nice take of and my friend says in the server talk .."hello .. we are the bombers 4 ... can we have fighters for escort?

 

Yes! a few say and they fly to help us ... this is good is how we think ..

 

The fighters fly very close to us for the formatoin fly and one crashes into my friend !!! he is destroyed

 

He said it is ok and we 3 fly on. the fighters stop the close danger and we go to the target. Now we have 3 bombers and 3 fighters to help us.

 

One enemy fighter attcks us and all  3 fighters of our team go to kill him when he runs away ....

 

Now we bombers have no escort ...

 

We 3 bombers are shot down to attack the target

 

The online pilots of fighters are no good for the bomber pilot.

The AI pilots of fighters are yes stupid but they try to help the bomber pilot. It is more like history.

 

The internet online game is never close to history.

 

This is the reason many pilots do not like the internet online flight sim game ... it is not what was the history.

as lame as that sounds, it actually sounds like what would often happen in a Real world WWII bombing mission.  So I guess CONGRATS!!  you just flew an ultra realistic simulation of REAL world boming raids!!!

 

AS much as I would like it to be, we are not all professional pilots.  So things like this are bound to happen. 

 

I like SP and MP,  and I have to say Ive been run into or shot up jsut as much by my AI, as I have by friends in MP. 

 

hows the saying go?  6 in 1, half a dozen in the other.