Suggestion to tweak expert

[Praetor]

Please remove the HUD entirely, and add a position indicator for your aircraft (not friendlies or enemies) on the map.

 

Would make up for the lack of orientation training pilots would have had in real life.  

[Schmalzfaust]

While I agree to remove the HUD completely I disagree to the point that you can see yourself on the map. In 1942 there was no GPS so there shouldn't be one in expert mode. Just my opinion.

I just like the map you can use in CloD with cartesian coordination grid map.

[SharpeXB]

In RoF you can see your own position on the ground in the Expert Mode. I don't know if landing and asking for directions was a good idea at Stalingrad though...

[HBB*Hunger]

Position indication on the map is really not needed. Just train yourself in navigation with map and compass to make sure where exactly you are. 

 

I think we need a "Bodenleitstelle" wich informs you about enemy activity in the operation area like:

 

 

"An alle Radfahrer, Indianer mit Möbelwagen über Kamishyn auf Hanni 1000, Ende"

 

"To all frendly aircraft in the area, bad guys with bombers over Kamishyn at altitude 1000m, over". 

 

 

I would like to get such informations via Radio from time to time

Edited September 13, 2014 by J99*Hunger

[Leaf]

"An alle Radfahrer, Indianer mit Möbelwagen über Kamishyn auf Hanni 1000, Ende"

 

"To all frendly aircraft in the area, bad guys with bombers over Kamishyn at altitude 1000m, over". 

 

 

I would like to get such informations via Radio from time to time

 

Using that exact phrasing; I'd love it! Basically a more detailed and varied version of the Bodenleitstelle we have in missions and QMB.

I might also add that "Indianer mir Moebelwagen" is a hilarious thought!

Edited September 13, 2014 by 19te.Leaf

[HBB*Hunger]

Sorry it should be "Indianer mit Möbelwagen" for sure

[-=PHX=-Satch]

Position indication on the map is really not needed. Just train yourself in navigation with map and compass to make sure where exactly you are. 

 

I think we need a "Bodenleitstelle" wich informs you about enemy activity in the operation area like:

 

 

"An alle Radfahrer, Indianer mit Möbelwagen über Kamishyn auf Hanni 1000, Ende"

 

"To all frendly aircraft in the area, bad guys with bombers over Kamishyn at altitude 1000m, over". 

 

 

I would like to get such informations via Radio from time to time

+1

[Praetor]

The HUD serves no purpose at all, especially with working instruments.

 

The indicator for your plane only (again, not friendlies or enemies) would really allow for an easier transition from normal to expert.   I would like to see most people play in expert with no icons instead of normal, and I believe navigation is the biggest prohibitive factor.

 

If you think it's a hit against realism, you're right, but like I said real life pilots would have studied the crap out of the area and been briefed into oblivion on landmarks, and real world navigation. I'd like absolutely full realism, including radiator and full engine management, but just your plane's icon on the map.  That's all.

[HBB*Hunger]

Yes ok I understand your argument. But I think that navigation is just not hard to learn. And if you take the "expert" serious, then you just have to navigate with your eyes on your map and the area below your aircraft and not with a dot moving on your map. 

 

Excuse my bad english. 

 

And another point is, that navigation is simply fun and a nice challenge. 

 

If you want that "normal players" come to the expert server, then just make a video like "how do you navigate on expert" and upload it to youtube for all newbie pilots

Edited September 13, 2014 by J99*Hunger

[jarg1]

While I have mostly learned the plane systems in expert, I am still struggling with navigation, starting at the airfields where it takes me a while to find the runway!  I think the lack of good reference points on these winter maps makes navigation more difficult than in most other flight sims.  I also favor having the option of having your own position indicated on the map.  Airfield diagrams would be nice too.

[HBB*Hunger]

Rivers and Woods, Cities and airfields, you cant get better reference points cause they look exactly like on your map.

 

 

+ STALINGRAD & WOLGA as reference points!

 

 

Just open your map before takeoff, make yourself a kind of flightplan and have a look at how the area looks like when you pass certain waypoints. 

 

 

No need for map indication...

Edited September 13, 2014 by J99*Hunger

[jarg1]

Rivers and Woods, Cities and airfields, you cant get better reference points cause they look exactly like on your map.

 

Just open your map before takeoff, make yourself a kind of flightplan and have a look at how the area looks like when you pass certain waypoints. 

 

You probably have better eyes than I do because it all looks pretty homogeneous to me when I am flying above 1000 meters.  Even the runways seem to blend into the surrounding areas until I am very close.  I'm not saying I could not navigate at all, but that it would require so much effort as to make the actual flying, scanning for bad guys, etc. very difficult.  Anyway, hopefully as I become more familiar with the maps this will be less of a problem.

[HBB*Hunger]

Most time I'm flying above Hanni 5000  

 

You dont have to look at the are below you all the time. Search a reference point and bring your plane on course. Scan for enemys.... look for the next reference point. 

[Praetor]

I think you're right Jarg.  It's not that it's impossible, just difficult with the season.  I don't think it would be so bad if it was summer.  

 

Just an option I thought would have very little impact on gameplay, yet ease the burden considerably for people making the transition or those not familiar with the maps. 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

The HUD for Expert I too agree on. As for the map I'm not so keen on an icon indicating where we are. And trust me, right now on the map, I'm lost. But I will learn. But what I would like to see is Red & Blue DOTs on the maps just big enough to see instead of HUGE aircraft icons for each base. Right now, even enlarged, I can not read the map to try and see where I am. And regarding instrumentation, A mouse over for the instrumentation would be nice but not necessary.

 

Chief

[wellenbrecher]

The HUD serves no purpose at all, especially with working instruments.

 

They aren't all working for all planes though. Not that the new HUD shows the missing info in question, but still.

 

An absolute no for the map icon. Navigation is a crucial part of flying, taking that out would be a disgrace.

Besides, it's not that hard. The forests, rivers and cities/villages are pretty memorable in their placements, you'll find your way around the map with no real difficulties after a few hours tops.

Edited September 13, 2014 by [JG2]G3_wellenbrecher

[jarg1]

They aren't all working for all planes though. Not that the new HUD shows the missing info in question, but still.

 

An absolute no for the map icon. Navigation is a crucial part of flying, taking that out would be a disgrace.

Besides, it's not that hard. The forests, rivers and cities/villages are pretty memorable in their placements, you'll find your way around the map with no real difficulties after a few hours tops.

 

I'm stubborn so I will continue to try to master navigation.  I hope the "few hours tops" isn't enough to discourage other potential fliers.  It seems to me participation in BoS online is pretty low at this point.

[wellenbrecher]

As a German:

Go straight east until you find Stalingrad. Everything else comes from there.

As a Russian:

Go West until you find Stalingrad. Everything else comes from there.

 

Other things of note from a German PoV mostly, but applicable for the Russians as well:

To get to the AO from Kalach, go east in a straight line.

 

Bringing a Heinkel to Pitomnik on servers that are running the Kessel/pocket mission (Syndicate) require you to stay on a course somewhere between 60° and 65°, depending on your take off and circle and also the wind.

Pitomnik is a major landmark and the cities West of it are as well.

 

Pitomnik is the airfield with two parallel runways West of Stalingrad (there is another one SE of Pit, but none of the mission servers uses it right now).

 

Gumrak is slightly NE of the double runway and has a very dark surface.

 

The city slightly to the South of Stalingrad is Beketovka, the completely straight line of trees West of is is visible from half the map away and helps with navigation.

 

Beketovka AF can be easily found by looking to the West of the northern end of the straight line of trees, next to a lonely patch of forest.

 

Going East from the Volga bend south of the above leads you head on to Grishin.

 

 

There, you can now navigate all three servers that are running a mission at the moment.

Not to mention that points of interest have huge plumes of smoke above them generally on the mission servers.

Edited September 13, 2014 by [JG2]G3_wellenbrecher

[Praetor]

I'm stubborn so I will continue to try to master navigation.  I hope the "few hours tops" isn't enough to discourage other potential fliers.  It seems to me participation in BoS online is pretty low at this point.

 

I think it's low right now because there is no reason to fly online.  There are no real objectives.  No stat tracking.  No purpose other than furballing.

[wellenbrecher]

Actually there is. You know, if you enjoy playing the game and all.

[Praetor]

Actually there is. You know, if you enjoy playing the game and all.

 

That didn't say anything.

[jarg1]

I think it's low right now because there is no reason to fly online.  There are no real objectives.  No stat tracking.  No purpose other than furballing.

 

Perhaps you are right, but my own initial experience with expert servers was one of being overwhelmed, and lost.  Now I am just lost, meaning I can't even find opponents to engage, and I end up flying around enjoying the scenery.  That includes the Eagles Nest which does have objectives.

As a German:

Go straight east until you find Stalingrad. Everything else comes from there.

As a Russian:

Go West until you find Stalingrad. Everything else comes from there.

 

etc.

 

Thanks for the tips.  I am printing them out and will use them as a reference on my next attempt.

[Bassly]

That didn't say anything.

 

In that case you probably should fire up the game and try servers like Syndicate or Eagles Nest. You know, actually play and then claim.

 

On the topic. No HUD or any GPS for navigation in expert, this is WWII sim after all.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Bassly

[Praetor]

Those are custom servers.  I'm talking about actual progression.  It's coming, but not implemented yet, and even the custom servers reset so quickly there is very little progress.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Rama
removed name calling

[wellenbrecher]

You have a proper mission, you have the planes, so there's a reason to play. 

If you need progression (a.k.a "grind") then you clearly have a different goal that most folks here I'm willing to bet.

 

That silly ad hominem really doesn't help at all, by the way

[Bassly]

Those are custom servers.  I'm talking about actual progression.  It's coming, but not implemented yet, and even the custom servers reset so quickly there is very little progress.

 

Well you wanted more information how to play objective based multiplayer. I gave you more information.

 

Which makes me wonder why the subject suddenly changed from objective based multiplayer to somekind of long term multiplayer campaing on non custom servers. Now I'm confused.

 

Best regards

[[JG2]Phen0m]

 

 

G3_wellenbrecher' timestamp='1410631316' post='162163'] The forests, rivers and cities/villages are pretty memorable in their placements, you'll find your way around the map with no real difficulties after a few hours tops.

   WE deffinitly need to spend more time together LOL   Buddyyyyyyy...

[Praetor]

You have a proper mission, you have the planes, so there's a reason to play. 

If you need progression (a.k.a "grind") then you clearly have a different goal that most folks here I'm willing to bet.

 

That silly ad hominem really doesn't help at all, by the way

 

Not a grind, just a purpose with some sort of tracking.  I really think Aces High does this part the best, but there is a lot of room and time for development in BOS.

[ACG_Stachl]

Please remove the HUD entirely, and add a position indicator for your aircraft (not friendlies or enemies) on the map.

 

Would make up for the lack of orientation training pilots would have had in real life.  

 

You've got a real life, go ahead and orient yourself.  We don't need to make up for anything, flying on a computer is much easier than the real thing.

[Praetor]

You've got a real life, go ahead and orient yourself.  We don't need to make up for anything, flying on a computer is much easier than the real thing.

 

Not sure why all the aggression in response to a mere suggestion.  Flying in real life is actually easier, and certainly navigation by eye is easier in real life when you don't have the confines of a 2d screen.

[ACG_Stachl]

It's just that the 'suggestion' of having your plane icon on a map in order to see where you are was a bit too much for me today.  I appologize!

[=LD=Hethwill]

I find that flying squad mitigates all the individual deficiencies. Some guys have good eyesight and spot planes easy, others have great sense of orientation, while others read the merge and lead us through fire and hell. So basically we all have to keep each other alive if we expect 100% perks in play.

 

But yeah, for a solo player I can see it can be difficult as an individual does not possess ALL the perks needed. Praise the multiplayer era and interesting mission builder. And just the two big missions being custom hosted are countless hours of great fun.

 

Unidentified icons in the map would be okay IMO. Meaning you wouldn't have the map eye following you but you would have "reported planes from the ground control" shown sometimes on the briefing map. On top of that more ground control radio messages - there is already some good ones on the custom servers, LD, SYN and EG when intruders come over trigger areas so ain't that hard to imagine what can be done.

Edited September 14, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[SharpeXB]

Expert is Expert. No icons. Navigation is part of that difficulty.

 

Players can always use the QM single player mode for navigation practice.

[jarg1]

Expert is Expert. No icons. Navigation is part of that difficulty.

 

Players can always use the QM single player mode for navigation practice.

 

I think "Expert" can be defined different ways.  If you really wanted to be an absolutist about it, then wouldn't you have to say no HUD and no on screen map (maybe a small map sitting on your lap instead), no text notifications, no zoom, and probably some other features currently implemented that don't readily come to mind?  After all, a real pilot in a real aircraft wouldn't have any of those things.  So clearly flight sim designers make compromises even in the most realistic settings. Since we can't possibly get the same level of detail that makes navigation easier in the real world, I don't see how adding a positional icon is undermining realism any more than the other features I mentioned, particularly if you have the option to turn it off if you don't want it.

Edited September 14, 2014 by jarg1

[AceRevo]

While I agree to remove the HUD completely I disagree to the point that you can see yourself on the map. In 1942 there was no GPS so there shouldn't be one in expert mode. Just my opinion.

I just like the map you can use in CloD with cartesian coordination grid map.

This.

 

+1

[Sokol1]

What you guys call "HUD", - in game language  - the (digital) "instrument" panel is not big issue unless for ones that whant use, because this  "instrument panel" is togleable (I), and probable in next updates receive back the "%" informations - notice the "instrument panel" placement leave a empy space bellow, and the key (I) still have three positions, OFF, Compact and Full (that actally dont work).

 

The big problem is what - in game language - is called "HUD", in practical terms the "overly", that have two options OFF and ON.

 

ON force me see planes icons and messages text that I dont like, but is the only way for see the mini/micro map (or instrument panel).

 

I dont find option/combination to see mini/micro map (or "instrument panel") without see planes icons and messages text.

 

In this way is need new options: Messages text OFF/ON and icons OFF/ON* independetly of (H) "overly" key.

 

*Better if icons bring option for OFF for planes but ON for ground target, the discret point marker for ground targets is sometimes usefull.

 

Sokol1