Proposal for multiplayer feature: DiD

[Finkeren]

Someone has undoubtedly thought of this before me, but I have never seen this discussed at length, so here goes:

 

I would like to propose a multiplayer mode - a sort of dead-is-dead, where each players kill score is reset to zero, if his/her virtual pilot is killed, captured or severely wounded. Posibly with a short downtime (maybe a minute or so) before a player can repawn after losing his/her virtual life, where players who land safely or at least survive can respawn immediately.

 

One of the major problems with recreating realistic dogfights in online play is the tendency players have to chase kills and put their kill score above the mission (if there is one) and their own self-preservation. This mode would give players an incentive to stay alive, and if significant points are awarded for completing mission objectives, focus on the mission as well. Helping out a team mate in need might be much more appreciated and team killing all the more frowned upon.

 

I would like to see this at least tried, and if posible implemented in BoS.

[FuriousMeow]

Kill streaks already reset to 0 in RoF's MP.

[Finkeren]

Kill streaks already reset to 0 in RoF's MP.

I know, but instead people are hunting K/D ratios etc. which is better than just chasing kills, but not as far reaching as my proposal, which is to reset the score entirely upon death/capture.

[FuriousMeow]

Ah. I'm not certain that particular mode would be very popular.

 

There have been various attempts across all sims to reduce the kill stealing/do anything for a kill even die mentality, even enabling kill shooter. You'll always see a conga line of planes in any air combat game/sim, 3+ friendlies going after the one lone enemy in that area shooting past each other to get that kill - kill shooter makes it so if you hit a friendly doing so, you incur the damage and go down. Still doesn't prevent the conga line though, people just wait for the better shot passed the other friendlies.

 

It's just the mentality of those who want to get kills and points. The people who enjoy DiD type scenarios and want their virtual pilot to be both successful and continue to "live" join wars where they can play with like-minded individuals.

[Finkeren]

It might be that you're right. Still I would like the opportunity to at least try it out.

 

It's not like it would be hard to code at all. Simply take the "kill streak" count and make that the only score that's counted and put in a delay for respawn after pilot is dead/captured, similar to the delay some RoF have for switching teams.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Finkeren

[leitmotiv]

On some DF type IL2 servers you have this, MistofWar (get kiled or captured 5 min no take off or spawn), switch airfield (3 min no take of spawn) and so on, AirDominationWar (get kiled or captured your kicked from server for 5 min), land on different airfield then the one your squadron is stationed your spending repair resources, get shot down no prestige points for your squadron and so on... and also for fighter and bomber pilots kill streak/ground target streak is counted in stats as priority for stats lovers. And your registered to play for only one team for all length of war no side switching.

 

old IL2 dosent have this options in difficulty settings by default, but servers do fined the way to have them, even if BoS would not have this i believe guys will fined the way to implement it

[Skoshi_Tiger]

On some DF type IL2 servers you have this, MistofWar (get kiled or captured 5 min no take off or spawn), switch airfield (3 min no take of spawn) and so on, AirDominationWar (get kiled or captured your kicked from server for 5 min), land on different airfield then the one your squadron is stationed your spending repair resources, get shot down no prestige points for your squadron and so on... and also for fighter and bomber pilots kill streak/ground target streak is counted in stats as priority for stats lovers. And your registered to play for only one team for all length of war no side switching.

 

old IL2 dosent have this options in difficulty settings by default, but servers do fined the way to have them, even if BoS would not have this i believe guys will fined the way to implement it

Personally I wouldn't like this "feature" or game mode.

 

Juggling work/family/relationships etc. means I have very limited time to use my flight sim. Every minute of time is valuable to me. If I went to a server and got vulched taking off, or collided with an accumulator while taxing, or whatever and then was kicked off and wasn't aloud to return for a arbitrary length of time, I'd be moving on to a new server and I doubt I'd be going back.

 

People run and maintain servers perform an invaluable service to the community, and have the right to set the server up as they see fit and set there own rules for the server, but they should also recognize that there are certain settings that would make their server unattractive to join. I guess the decision would be based on how many online players are vying for a spot on their server.  

[leitmotiv]

I understand you, its nice to leve it to server hosts to decide, im just glad that it exists.

When i have time i can play on it because i like the functions, when i dont have time i go play on other server. This type of servers are 5-6 years old and still running so there is demand for it like for other servers, more options the better. 

 

My expectations regarding BoS MP is not big anymore, so I just wont expect this BoS team to bather with this extra stuff for multiplayer, ill just be glad if they implement simple basic stuff, simple to work with so other people with more passion for MP diversity will be able to implement what they wont on their server.

[RAF74_Winger]

Personally I wouldn't like this "feature" or game mode.

 

Juggling work/family/relationships etc. means I have very limited time to use my flight sim. Every minute of time is valuable to me. If I went to a server and got vulched taking off, or collided with an accumulator while taxing, or whatever and then was kicked off and wasn't aloud to return for a arbitrary length of time, I'd be moving on to a new server and I doubt I'd be going back.

 

People run and maintain servers perform an invaluable service to the community, and have the right to set the server up as they see fit and set there own rules for the server, but they should also recognize that there are certain settings that would make their server unattractive to join. I guess the decision would be based on how many online players are vying for a spot on their server.  

 

I think this should be left to server operators (as it is in RoF). When RAF74 run war nights on our RoF server the setting is generally DiD with time-outs for landing. We have an exception that killed or captured pilots can serve as gunners in multi-crew aircraft so that they can still contribute to the mission instead of going to the pub. On open server nights this feature is turned off.

 

Note that this functionality is enabled by external software, not the RoF dedicated server. I imagine that the capability to interact with the server through third party software will be continued with BoS.

 

W.

[Panzerlang]

When I was running the DiD online war you were off until the next day/night if you were killed or captured. There were certainly enough people playing to prove the popularity of the concept, so the devs might want to think about it.

[Dakpilot]

The more options available the better  if it is popular it will be used, if not no-one is harmed, win win

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[TJT]

LLv34 have a DiD kind of system for our War Missions we have run since day one of EAW through AH and Il-2.
If you are killed during a WM you are not eliglble to start a new career life till the following night. Though you can fly as confirming wingman for another pilot flying a WM.

[Jupp]

~S~ I know this meme features an AH-1 Cobra, but I found it humorous in context of this thread.

It also shows that these issues have been around for a long time, and apply to many simulations.

[Recon]

I agree with Winger, leave 

 

I think this should be left to server operators (as it is in RoF). When RAF74 run war nights on our RoF server the setting is generally DiD with time-outs for landing. We have an exception that killed or captured pilots can serve as gunners in multi-crew aircraft so that they can still contribute to the mission instead of going to the pub. On open server nights this feature is turned off.

 

Note that this functionality is enabled by external software, not the RoF dedicated server. I imagine that the capability to interact with the server through third party software will be continued with BoS.

 

W.

 

+1 Provide a log and a way to interact programmatically with the server software and then let the creative members of our community create 'DiD' and other environments and situations

[II./JG27_Rich]

When I was running the DiD online war you were off until the next day/night if you were killed or captured. There were certainly enough people playing to prove the popularity of the concept, so the devs might want to think about it.

Siggi I was Hackl way back when in 2001 - 2003 then came another person with the same handle so I changed. Anyway as I remember DID old IL-2 2001 had no front markers so you downloaded a map from the DID website to see where the front was and how things were progressing. All pilots had to send in logs after each mission and everything had to be read and tallied up manually by the admin. Is this correct?  If that is how I remember it how more real can you get than that Plus the fact that you were out for the day if you were killed untill your replacement was flown into the front made you all the more nervous and aware. I remember the old guys like Herr-Spray Uhoh7 Josh Freitag Stigler Willie Pope who later changed to Graf and did some great IL-2 art work.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Richie

[Matt]

 

I would like to propose a multiplayer mode - a sort of dead-is-dead, where each players kill score is reset to zero, if his/her virtual pilot is killed, captured or severely wounded.

 Would't this kind of defeat the purpose?

 

I mean, if you would also get zero points when you get captured or wounded, it would mean that people would fly even more recklessly as soon as their plane received damage over enemy territory (with little chance to return to friendly lines) or as soon as they get wounded.

 

 

I also can't say that i would be comfortable sitting around and waiting for a countdown until i can fly again. Some servers did that in RoF for some time, but i don't think they used this for a very long time.

 

Overall i would prefer if people only get rewarded for fulfilling objectives, not just for shooting down planes or bombing random objects or having a high K/D ratio (or didn't die at all). Meaning if a squadron has the objective to escort bombers, every pilot of the squadron gets rewarded for protecting the bombers and getting them back home intact. Also losing wingmen should have a negative effect on scoring. Maybe a high K/D or not-dying could then be added on top of that as a bonus.

 

But this would probably be something for serious events and not regular 24/7 missions. I don't think the problem is that people are kill-hungry, that happened in real life also and in many cases, there is nothing else they should do, because they have no real objective or atleast don't get rewarded for fulfilling objectives. The same is often true for bombers or ground-attack planes, atleast that has been the case in RoF. People just use kamikaze attacks to destroy the target and that's it (much worse than the reckless behaviour of fighter pilots).

[LG1.Farber]

I support the OP.  Very useful for events and campaigns.

[I-WVoss]

From my point of view I can also advise on the experience of organizing the FEOW III for ROF, is to read what are the concepts of the SEOW for IL2:

http://wiki-seow-en.swil.fr/index.php/Main_Page

so you can possibly enter into BOS. I remember, however that the life of a long-lived combat simulator, are the campaigns online.

 

Cheers!

 

Voss

Edited August 19, 2013 by =CAM=WVoss

[Panzerlang]

Siggi I was Hackl way back when in 2001 - 2003 then came another person with the same handle so I changed. Anyway as I remember DID old IL-2 2001 had no front markers so you downloaded a map from the DID website to see where the front was and how things were progressing. All pilots had to send in logs after each mission and everything had to be read and tallied up manually by the admin. Is this correct?  If that is how I remember it how more real can you get than that Plus the fact that you were out for the day if you were killed untill your replacement was flown into the front made you all the more nervous and aware. I remember the old guys like Herr-Spray Uhoh7 Josh Freitag Stigler Willie Pope who later changed to Graf and did some great IL-2 art work.

 

That's the one. I spent an hour or so every morning uploading the previous night's results to the killboards and suchlike. Then around another hour editing the mission file for the coming evening's play. I burned out after a year but it was worth every hour, playing full DiD with some of the finest simmers known to god.

[II./JG27_Rich]

That's the one. I spent an hour or so every morning uploading the previous night's results to the killboards and suchlike. Then around another hour editing the mission file for the coming evening's play. I burned out after a year but it was worth every hour, playing full DiD with some of the finest simmers known to god.

Those were fun times Siggi

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

How about a different approach to how the scoring works. I don't play ROF at all so by all means tell me if this has already been done.

 

How about a scoring system that does reset however it will register your best score for an end game result. This way it makes players think more strategically when investing into a air fight or ground attack and makes them value the current score that they've currently accumulated i.e. their life. If someone has accumulated 3 air kills and 5 ground I'm sure they will be very reluctant to have someone shoot them down and possibly ruin his/her chances of getting the highest registered score for the end game results. No-one wants that, it's all about survival.  Parachuting over enemy territory will also reset your score to prevent people from simply getting themselves a new aircraft. Parachuting or crash landing in friendly territory will also give you a slight minus score however the advantage is no score reset as you've survived and haven't been captured.

 

 

I think there are a few advantages to this.

 

• No respawn count down
• Late comers (or anyone in fact) wont be able to see each others highest registered score until end of mission. Which will discourage late comers from just rushing into fights with suicidal intentions. Won't always stop them but it will help.
• Talented individuals who do arrive in a middle of a mission still have a good chance to register a high score.
• You could register a score which is satisfactory without flying the whole mission and see if you come out on top. Perhaps you could have a end game report emailed or posted to you in the in-game menu if you disconnected before game had finished. (You could spend the spare time gathering brownie points from the misses for more flying time)
• If I've accumulated a good score or even a low one, you still value it none the less and no-one wants to be reset i.e. killed. It's all about survival.

What do you guys think?

Edited August 19, 2013 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[SCG_Neun]

That's the one. I spent an hour or so every morning uploading the previous night's results to the killboards and suchlike. Then around another hour editing the mission file for the coming evening's play. I burned out after a year but it was worth every hour, playing full DiD with some of the finest simmers known to god.

I agree.  It was the best!

[HagarTheHorrible]

I remember, with some relish, about how impressed I was when shooting infantry in Microprose's "Gunship". It was great fun shooting them and seeing them killed because they seemed to act in a realistic, believable manner unlike other games at the time. It may not seem "nice" to shoot and straff soldiers but that's exactly what we do in helecopter games because that is one of their main purposes.

[Mac_Messer]

I think there are a few advantages to this.

 

• No respawn count down
• Late comers (or anyone in fact) wont be able to see each others highest registered score until end of mission. Which will discourage late comers from just rushing into fights with suicidal intentions. Won't always stop them but it will help.
• Talented individuals who do arrive in a middle of a mission still have a good chance to register a high score.
• You could register a score which is satisfactory without flying the whole mission and see if you come out on top. Perhaps you could have a end game report emailed or posted to you in the in-game menu if you disconnected before game had finished. (You could spend the spare time gathering brownie points from the misses for more flying time)
• If I've accumulated a good score or even a low one, you still value it none the less and no-one wants to be reset i.e. killed. It's all about survival.

What do you guys think?

That is not enough. Remember than even if you bail out over allied territory the aircraft is lost and it should be written off as a loss for the either sides` resources (and a +1 to the pilot that made him ditch). If you want to create a realistic environment, you want to promote pilots actualy maintaining low losses instead of just making sure they down as much enemy aircraft as possible. That way when there is a good chance of performing a succesfull ditch over at allied lines, the player will choose it over a bail out instead of just hitting CTRL_E. That is perhaps even more important with bomber pilots than fighters.

[Matt]

In RoF, it's kind of working like that.

 

If planes are limited and the "renew planes" (or whatever the options is called, can't remember) is activated, you will lose the plane you're flying with, unless you land back at your airfield.

 

It's basically a simple

 

plane-took-off -> -1 plane avaliable

plane-lands-intact-at-home-base -> +1 plane avaliable

 

One downside of this system is (unless they changed it, it's been some time since i tested it), that if you land with your plane and finish flight, someone else could take that plane that just got replenished. So that, theoretically, you would land your plane and then get "rewarded" by not being able to fly again, because someone else just took the plane that got renewed for yours (probably someone, who didn't care about bringing his plane home in the first place). In case it still works like that, i would prefer it so that the plane would stick to the pilot who just landed, unless he decides to switch teams,takes a different planetype and/or airfield or leaves the server.

 

Anyhow, i can't say i care too much about points/score, but imho, kills should only count if the pilot+plane made it back to the airfield or at the very least, the pilot did not get killed or captured (incase he bailed out or crash landed in friendly territory, less points should be awarded than if he would've landed at his airfield). No kills or score should be rewarded, while the plane is still in the air.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Even in Warclouds il2 DF server, 3 deaths and you were out for 5 minutes or so.People were queueing to get in!

[Skoshi_Tiger]

How about implementing something like the refuel and rearm as scripted in some CoD missions. Gives a great incentive to brig the old crate back in one piece.