The good and "could be better"

[Vaxxtx]

After standing on the sidelines reading the previews for a while I finally purchased. Probably not adding much new, but figured I would give my list of goods and bads about BoS. I am using CoD, and 1946 as a comparision. Not directly, but its still relavant, especially anything with the Ll2 in the title, since this is also an IL2 game. I am not going into technical details, this is just a high level overview of limited time. I mainly only fly LF fighter planes, but will jump into VVS to check them out a bit, so most of this is from a 109 standpoint.

 

Goods:

 

1. Exterior models. Did not rivet count, but they are sharp and solid. The weathering looks gritty. Exterior models rival if not surpass CoD.

2. I stated this before but the scrapes and cracks in the glass looking out is a nice touch. The last time I saw this was in Wings of Prey.

3. Planes/vehicles explosion on ground impact. Looks solid and satisfies. Smoke should last longer, but its still good.

4. Controller/TrackIR/Force Feedback setup. Dealing with 46', CoD, DCS, or just about any other sim is a pia to setup. BoS made it rather simple, and easy. Excluding the totally viod axis controls from some trim, it was a nice easy process. The FF is top notch without tweaking, and that is really appreciated.

5. The ground and objects. Yes, its plain, yes its just snow, but it looks good. The vehicles ( some seem left over from RoF, sadly) move well, and I do the like the guys jumping out when getting straffed. Good memories from 46'.

6. The "garage" when setting your plane up. Love looking around and seeing the different parts put on. Also being able to change setup on a tab screen. I hope once its finished and everything thing is added (convergance, hopefully bullet and belts like CoD) it will be awesome.

 

Needs improvment:

 

1. Cockpits. They are ok and do the job, but compared to CoD, they could use some more love. The are a bit above '46 with some texture mods, and they should be way ahead.

2. Engine Sound. Gah. Somebody mentioned BoS was using sounds from RoF jokingly, and sadly I could not stop thinking my 109 sounded like an Albatros. In the cockpit I didnt get the sense I was in a WWII fighter. Sure you can hear the engine rev up on the runway, but it totally lacks the oomph. The russian birds sounded much better. The external cam sounds are just as bad. Compared to CoD with TF mods, and even '46 with sound mods, BoS is very weak in this area.

3. Gun Sound. Again the 109 MG sounds like a muffled whisper. The cannon sounds a tad better, but still such an odd decible level. Again no oomph. The Russian ones, are good.

4. Damage model. Fires, and smoke EVERYWHERE. There was not plane I shot with MG's only that didnt start to puff out smoke. I know I am not a sniper in the air, going to for the vital. Again comparing this to CoD and being able to see the difference between a fuel leak, oil leak, etc and seeing a fire is not rare, but not comman either, its just right. Instant smoke and fire seems a bit overdone. Watching old WWII gun cams and not seeing instant destruction of fire and smoke on every clip makes me wonder about this.

 

Those are from a few hours messing around. I wont go into FMs, because I have not had much time, or content, because its not finished.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Good read of your opinions and I share a couple with you, especially the DM, could be more refined but can live with it.

 

The gun sounds are ok in volumes imo . Actually I think they should be inaudible inside the cockpit.

 

Note Regarding the gustav sound - in game is a bit... flat level, but can live with it.

 

- IRL rec - ( mind you this collection is not royalty free but fee by track )

Edited September 8, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[Kling]

 

Needs improvment:

 

 

4. Damage model. Fires, and smoke EVERYWHERE. There was not plane I shot with MG's only that didnt start to puff out smoke. I know I am not a sniper in the air, going to for the vital. Again comparing this to CoD and being able to see the difference between a fuel leak, oil leak, etc and seeing a fire is not rare, but not comman either, its just right. Instant smoke and fire seems a bit overdone. Watching old WWII gun cams and not seeing instant destruction of fire and smoke on every clip makes me wonder about this.

 

This is by FAAAR my biggest issue as well! This can be the sole reason why I would not get into BOS.. It just looks too arcadish no matter how pretty the rest of the game is...

[LukeFF]

I'd check your audio settings, because to me the game doesn't sound anything like how you describe it.

[Vaxxtx]

I'd check your audio settings, because to me the game doesn't sound anything like how you describe it.

My audio settings are fine. I am using 7.1 headphones.

 

109 sounds are very weak.

 

If the sounds are final I will be looking for a sound mod asap.

[Bussard_x]

I agree on the fires. I hope they will make a variety of fires, and possible fires that stop. The hit boxes that causes the fires might also have some attention.  

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Good read of your opinions and I share a couple with you, especially the DM, could be more refined but can live with it.

 

The gun sounds are ok in volumes imo . Actually I think they should be inaudible inside the cockpit.

 

Note Regarding the gustav sound - in game is a bit... flat level, but can live with it.

 

- IRL rec - ( mind you this collection is not royalty free but fee by track )

 

The whine of the landing gear seems to be missing entirely

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I'd check your audio settings, because to me the game doesn't sound anything like how you describe it.

 

My audio settings are fine (being that this game required an unnecessary amount of tweaking...) but to me the engine sounds are very flat.

 

There are also sounds that are not accurate or even close to their real life counterparts ( ^ IE. the whine of the gear coming down.)

 

The dive-siren also sounds very doctored... At least the siren respects the wind speed that the impeller is being blown at... I will give them that.

Edited September 8, 2014 by FalkeEins

[LukeFF]

My audio settings are fine. I am using 7.1 headphones.

 

109 sounds are very weak.

 

If the sounds are final I will be looking for a sound mod asap.

 

Umm, ok.   I'm running a 5.1 surround sound speaker system and think the sounds are great.

[Gambit21]

I concur  - sound problem is on your end V.

[Vaxxtx]

Umm, ok.   I'm running a 5.1 surround sound speaker system and think the sounds are great.

Ummm,ok. Glad it sounds good to you.

[startrekmike]

Yeah, I gotta disagree as well, I mean, the sounds for the engines are all really good on my end, very robust and powerful sounding.

 

  As far as some of the other complaints, I think that it is important to ask if you are basing your opinion of BoS on your experience with another sim or with that actual facts about the aircraft, this is a common issue where players from other sims come to BoS, find that things are not exactly as they are their favorite other sim and think that it must mean that those elements are clearly wrong.

 

  I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to have those opinions, I only ask that you take a minute to really think about where those opinions are rooted and if they are rooted in another sim, how can you really be sure they got it correct?

[-=PHX=-Satch]

Yeah, I gotta disagree as well, I mean, the sounds for the engines are all really good on my end, very robust and powerful sounding.

 

  As far as some of the other complaints, I think that it is important to ask if you are basing your opinion of BoS on your experience with another sim or with that actual facts about the aircraft, this is a common issue where players from other sims come to BoS, find that things are not exactly as they are their favorite other sim and think that it must mean that those elements are clearly wrong.

 

  I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to have those opinions, I only ask that you take a minute to really think about where those opinions are rooted and if they are rooted in another sim, how can you really be sure they got it correct?

 

+1

[FuriousMeow]

Sounds great to me. Just for the heck of it, I tried different EQ settings with my SBZ - and strangely enough the preset Country, followed by Pop, EQs made the 190's whump whump stick out a bit more in external flybys.

 

Otherwise, sounds awesome and I think this is where good sound systems come in. Dedicated sound cards with true 5.1 configurations, not the 5.1 headsets that use only two cans or medicore 2.1 setups. I still stand by dedicated sound cards being the way to get the best audio.

[Gambit21]

Ummm,ok. Glad it sounds good to you.

 

...and everyone else.

[FuriousMeow]

  As far as some of the other complaints, I think that it is important to ask if you are basing your opinion of BoS on your experience with another sim or with that actual facts about the aircraft, this is a common issue where players from other sims come to BoS, find that things are not exactly as they are their favorite other sim and think that it must mean that those elements are clearly wrong.

 

Even then, there are times where people will listen to something on youtube and then say "listen to this!" but based on sound equipment it will be different for everybody. Differing volume levels, bass, trebel, EQ that can be set, and then the quality of the speakers. So a youtube <insert plane> could sound completly different from my sound to yours just based on simple settings within Windows and equipment and there is also how the sound was recorded. I've heard several of these planes in real life and even on youtube I don't feel it is the same as being there

 

Sound card type/quality won't matter for youtube, or any, flash based audio - but it is a totally different matter with games that can be designed to take advantage of that hardware.

Edited September 9, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Vaxxtx]

Yeah, I gotta disagree as well, I mean, the sounds for the engines are all really good on my end, very robust and powerful sounding.

 

  As far as some of the other complaints, I think that it is important to ask if you are basing your opinion of BoS on your experience with another sim or with that actual facts about the aircraft, this is a common issue where players from other sims come to BoS, find that things are not exactly as they are their favorite other sim and think that it must mean that those elements are clearly wrong.

 

  I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong to have those opinions, I only ask that you take a minute to really think about where those opinions are rooted and if they are rooted in another sim, how can you really be sure they got it correct?

No offense, but this excuse of "just because your favorite sim did it this way, does not mean its right" is getting old. It is said when anyone has a critique about BoS. Its getting to be the go-to saying. That exact statement can be reversed you know?

 

Yes, I am comparing sounds to other IL2 games. I am also comparing sounds to real life. I am also comparing sounds to videos. That is what should be done. Thats how a person forms an opinion. Play CoD in a 109. Press F3 and do a flyby, shoot some guns, then hit F2 and do the same and listen. Then do the same in BoS. Its like a tiger vs a kitten to me. BoS seems flat. Sorry.

 

Sounds great to me. Just for the heck of it, I tried different EQ settings with my SBZ - and strangely enough the preset Country, followed by Pop, EQs made the 190's whump whump stick out a bit more in external flybys.

 

Otherwise, sounds awesome and I think this is where good sound systems come in. Dedicated sound cards with true 5.1 configurations, not the 5.1 headsets that use only two cans or medicore 2.1 setups. I still stand by dedicated sound cards being the way to get the best audio.

Pump Kenny G through a 10k sounds systems, does not make him sound any better lol. Well...unless you dig Kenny G.

[StickMan]

Comparing this DM to the DM in CloD where the only damage eight machine guns do is make the rads on 109 leak, is not a good comparison. At least when planes collide in BoS it causes damage to both, not one blows up and the other flys off into the sunset.

Edited September 9, 2014 by GeneralZod

[Vaxxtx]

...and everyone else.

Obviously not everyone.....

[FuriousMeow]

Pump Kenny G through a 10k sounds systems, does not make him sound any better lol. Well...unless you dig Kenny G.

 

Well that's pre-recorded elevator hell noise. There is a lot of dynamic active mixing and development in the sound engine to create what we're hearing in game.

 

There's always room for improvement of course, it should never stop - well until the funds to improve no longer exist.

Edited September 9, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Gambit21]

Obviously not everyone.....

 

I think it's obvious that the problem is on your end - that's all I'm saying.

I hope you get it solved.

[Vaxxtx]

Comparing this DM to the DM in CloD where the only damage eight machine guns do is make the rads on 109 leak, is not a good comparison. At least when planes collide in BoS it causes damage to both, not one blows up and the other flys off into the sunset.

 

Re-read what I wrote. I am talking about smoke mostly, and how things catch fire and throw smoke with the slightest hit. And FYI I just played CoD and clipped a wing of a Hurricane....we both lost a wing and went into the drink, so not sure....

 

I think it's obvious that the problem is on your end - that's all I'm saying.

I hope you get it solved.

No, it is not obvious. No problems on my end, aside from thinking the sound is flat. Wish I didnt, but it is what it is.

 

Oh, post #258 on suggestions. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/767-thread-gather-your-suggestions/page-7

Edited September 9, 2014 by Vaxxtx

[StickMan]

Re-read what I wrote. I am talking about smoke mostly, and how things catch fire and throw smoke with the slightest hit. And FYI I just played CoD and clipped a wing of a Hurricane....we both lost a wing and went into the drink, so not sure.

The slightest hit of the couple tracers you saw you mean? Did you think of the other dozen or so rounds in between all the tracers that you can't see? You need to play cliffs more if you don't know how wonky the collision model is. Try it again at high speed into a slow aircraft.

[Voidhunger]

Sounds are great.

But i agree that dm needs improvements.

[startrekmike]

No offense, but this excuse of "just because your favorite sim did it this way, does not mean its right" is getting old. It is said when anyone has a critique about BoS. Its getting to be the go-to saying. That exact statement can be reversed you know?

 

Yes, I am comparing sounds to other IL2 games. I am also comparing sounds to real life. I am also comparing sounds to videos. That is what should be done. Thats how a person forms an opinion. Play CoD in a 109. Press F3 and do a flyby, shoot some guns, then hit F2 and do the same and listen. Then do the same in BoS. Its like a tiger vs a kitten to me. BoS seems flat. Sorry.

 

Pump Kenny G through a 10k sounds systems, does not make him sound any better lol. Well...unless you dig Kenny G.

 

 

  Just because you think that what I say is "getting old" does not make it less true.

 

  Also, please keep in mind that when I brought up comparisons to other sims, it was not on the subject of sounds but the damage model issues that you brought up.

 

  The point of my post was not to say that BoS must be correct but that it is important to acknowledge that one's perception of how things "should be" is usually based on other sims that may or may not have gotten things right themselves. This is why I make it a point to not use other sims as examples of how things should be done but instead I try to find actual sources from books and pilot interviews to back up my claims.

 

 To be very blunt, the moment someone says "this is wrong in "X" sim because it is not that way in "Y" sim", well, I tend to not really take it as seriously as I would if someone says "feature "X" is not right because this book/interview/technical documentation/actual footage of aircraft says so".

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Sounds could use more "oomph". Could maybe achieve this if tinkered with EQ and other stuff. Sound engine could use tweaks here and there and I am sure they work on it as we speak. DM has good and bad points. Sure the guns feel more powerful, small calibre guns even more so. A hitbox modelling is never good as it is like "IF dmg < X value of the hitbox THEN OK" causing oddities in the DM behaviour. No use of speculating though, can't say how devs have the DM done and how they calculate different weapons at range. The only value that does not decrease with range is chemical E of HE ammo, rest does so more or less faster, depending on calibre of the gun. BoS has all the potential, just needs polishing and tweaking.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I miss the sound of tac- tac- tac of the enemy guns hitting our plane. According to interview with Finnish ace engine sound masked near all sound but no hits.

Edited September 9, 2014 by tomcatqw

[Felix58]

I have enjoyed the development ride so far and have been impressed to date.  Bit early to get critical but while we are on the subject.

 

The zombies wandering around the airfield.  I love the idea of introducing "life" into the sim.  Great idea, but maybe have them running to show urgency - appreciate this probably is only the first version.

 

The cockpit debate - I think they are good, readable from a gaming perspective, without being great.  I can live with them.

 

Agree with general commentary that sounds could be improved - with all the noise in the cockpit would the pilot hear hits on the aircraft?  I'm guessing they would feel the impact.

 

My biggest like in the game is the "visibility".  Maybe just me, but I think I spot aircraft and object better in this sim than others.  Not sure, but aircraft do not get lost in background clutter as much as other sims.

 

IMHO the devs have always surprised on the upside so I would not get too heated about perceived shortcomings at this stage.

[SeriousFox]

Sound quality is good to me but not the best.

 

Generally sound in BoS are lacking in bass(I can say sounds are flat.. not suitable for war game), some gun sounds are also rather low quality compare to others. (Ju87 cannon sound for example)

Edited September 9, 2014 by SeriousFox

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Umm, ok.   I'm running a 5.1 surround sound speaker system and think the sounds are great.

 

I am running it through a calibrated 5.1 set and it still sounds flat. It is not a speaker issue, it is not a setting issue - it is an issue with the sounds used in the game.

 

I'm glad you think the sounds are great - I maintain that I do not.

  Just because you think that what I say is "getting old" does not make it less true.

 

-snip-

 

It also doesn't make your point the singular, correct one.

 

There isn't one - this is a matter of opinion. Moving along now...

-snip-

 

 To be very blunt, the moment someone says "this is wrong in "X" sim because it is not that way in "Y" sim", well, I tend to not really take it as seriously as I would if someone says "feature "X" is not right because this book/interview/technical documentation/actual footage of aircraft says so".

 

Ok... Than you musn't have listened to the G-2/trop. audio up there.

Edited September 9, 2014 by FalkeEins

[FuriousMeow]

Sound quality is good to me but not the best.

 

Generally sound in BoS are lacking in bass(I can say sounds are flat.. not suitable for war game), some gun sounds are also rather low quality compare to others. (Ju87 cannon sound for example)

 

I can tell you for certain, the bass levels are there - this comes back to the adjusting levels of bass and treble on your end to get them more pronounced. EQs can assist with that. If bass didn't exist, and wasn't coming through, my buttkicker wouldn't do a single thing - but at medium-low settings, it is constantly vibrating with the engine and kicks up more with gun fire and especially close hits by flak. Bass is always an end user setting, you have to adjust it through your sound settings - they can't just set bass to max and release it to everyone as it could potentially blow out speakers or actually cause physical harm by blowing out a headset.

 

I have always had to adjust bass to be more pronounced for every title I've used, every single one. In Windows XP it was a separate slider, as well as treble, with Windows 7 they've changed that up so it can't be adjusted separately easily and so I go through the EQ to bring up the bass.

Edited September 9, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[smink1701]

I think they could add some DM FX in the cockpit.  Presently we just get some cracked gauges.  How about some sparks from the instrument panel, smoke, flames, etc???

[FlatSpinMan]

Guys can we ease off on the OP about sound a bit? He's just expressing his opinion, and very reasonably, too. It's great to have people defending the sim, but this thread strikes me as a tad overzealous. 

 

Personally I don't care about the sounds in games much at all as I have to turn it down because I can only play when my family is asleep.

I'm with the OP on the damage model though. I know the devs investigated historical damage and said that previous games underestimated the real destructive power, but it just seems so easy to bring down a Heinkel.

It'd be interesting to try with a Hurricane or Spitfire. Maybe one day soon...

[KoN_]

There is still time to go , its at 70% i am hoping there some fixes fire and smoke it one , i would like to see strike marks or bullet hits ,

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I think they could add some DM FX in the cockpit.  Presently we just get some cracked gauges.  How about some sparks from the instrument panel, smoke, flames, etc???

 

DM FX needs help in all areas in my opinion.

[smink1701]

Would also like to see oxygen masks and landing gear drop with damaged hydraulics.

[Kling]

Would also like to see oxygen masks and landing gear drop with damaged hydraulics.

+1

[=LD=Penshoon]

I can tell you for certain, the bass levels are there - this comes back to the adjusting levels of bass and treble on your end to get them more pronounced. EQs can assist with that. If bass didn't exist, and wasn't coming through, my buttkicker wouldn't do a single thing - but at medium-low settings, it is constantly vibrating with the engine and kicks up more with gun fire and especially close hits by flak. Bass is always an end user setting, you have to adjust it through your sound settings - they can't just set bass to max and release it to everyone as it could potentially blow out speakers or actually cause physical harm by blowing out a headset.

 

I have always had to adjust bass to be more pronounced for every title I've used, every single one. In Windows XP it was a separate slider, as well as treble, with Windows 7 they've changed that up so it can't be adjusted separately easily and so I go through the EQ to bring up the bass.

The sound mix definitely lack some of the low frequencies compared to other games but that might be intentional. The wind leaking into the cockpit is pretty much all white noise which is spectrally flat. Due to the nature of human hearing people are more sensitive to the mid frequencies so these drown the low and highs even when played at the same level.

 

I think the bass needs to be increased when at low airspeed since the cockpit would amplify the low frequencies but as airspeed increases the current sound becomes very convincing. Driving my soft top car the engine sound is at first very bassy but as speed increases it turns completely flat and indistinguishable from the wind. 

 

 

[Sparrer]

S!

 

i pretty much agree with all vaxxtx statements (except about the mg sounds, because i think they are very nice)

The engine sounds are ok, we can live with then as they are now, but they are way way way way way far to be great feature in BoS. They are just ok

Improving the bass will not solve the problem, but it will improove a lot! imo

[dburne]

The sound mix definitely lack some of the low frequencies compared to other games but that might be intentional. The wind leaking into the cockpit is pretty much all white noise which is spectrally flat. Due to the nature of human hearing people are more sensitive to the mid frequencies so these drown the low and highs even when played at the same level.

 

I think the bass needs to be increased when at low airspeed since the cockpit would amplify the low frequencies but as airspeed increases the current sound becomes very convincing. Driving my soft top car the engine sound is at first very bassy but as speed increases it turns completely flat and indistinguishable from the wind. 

 

I would certainly agree with this!