il-2: BoS and modding?

[FarlanderMiG]

first of all, great work with the game so far really looking nice.

but, as a player of il-2 1946 for a long time it still bothers me a bit to move away from all those planes, to just a few.

i know that il-2 1946 didn't have too many planes when it started out, but (for me) what made it great was addons. so i just want to hear, is there any plans for people to be able to mod the game (maybe after some years..)?

of all the scenarios of ww2, i like the eastern front the best. but what i liked about 46 was the early jet era, me-262, MiG-15, F-80, F-86 etc. there are not too may simulators covering that era (DCS might be the way to go, with F-86 and MiG-21 now being released/soon released)..

 

so, im interested to hear what you guys think about the possibility of modding/third party DCS style planes, maps and such 

 

have not been able to test yet, victim of the new patch   tomorrow, maybe 

[Leaf]

Within a few years I'm sure. From what we've seen in RoF, modding is possible, but with a fairly limited scope. Don't expect whole airplanes to be modded into the game anytime soon, the devs have a pretty high standard for that kind of stuff.

[Sparrer]

S!

 

Mods are nice for offline players

 

But il2 online was killed when it got open. Thousands of mods, everyone with your taste, some good some bad, and dozens of incompatible versions. I'm ok but if they are regulamented turning official patches by dev's

[FarlanderMiG]

I can agree on that. I think the best would be something similar to the 3rd party system dcs has. It is alot more controlled than the completely community open 1946.

[Vaxxtx]

S!

 

Mods are nice for offline players

 

But il2 online was killed when it got open. Thousands of mods, everyone with your taste, some good some bad, and dozens of incompatible versions. I'm ok but if they are regulamented turning official patches by dev's

Mods online and offline is the only reason IL2 1946 lasted so long is still played. Same with CLoD. Without talented modders 46' would have been done a few years after, and CLoD would have remained in the abandonware bucket.

 

There are also plenty of online mod packs, and simple programs (as in 2 clicks) to switch between mod packs, depending on what servers you want to play. It hardly killed online....it actually made is stronger.

 

ARMA is a prime example of good mod support game. Make the base game and let your community add to it. Brilliant, and successful.

 

If BoS is only giving out limited mod abilities, it will also limit the lifespan, IMO.

[Rama]

so, im interested to hear what you guys think about the possibility of modding/third party DCS style planes, maps and such

The first map mod (Velikye Luki extract) was added to the game with last week update... so modding is allready there before the release.

There's no doubt 3d object can be added to the game with a SDK (used by the team that created the new VL map)

For the planes, it's a different story. It would be hard to find a team developping a plane with appropriate quality standard.... and in any case the FMs will only been done by the dev.

[FarlanderMiG]

Im sorry, but there are 3rd party teams out there that produce mods of this quality... Look at leatherneck's MiG-21 for dcs as an example.. That plane is way more in deapth than any of the planes in this game. Lets just face it, it would take too long for the devs to make their planes as modeled as in dcs, and i have nothing against them choosing not to model everything. This way you get a game with more planes at the cost of some detail.

[Rama]

If a team can do a plane with the correct quality, then probably they can find an agreement with the dev (still remember that the dev still has to produce the FM, and that's a lot of work).

In the past, some test were made with 3rd parties for RoF, and they failed... so yes, It will be hard (and I didn't say "impossible", just hard)

[FarlanderMiG]

Yes, it will definitely be hard, but my point was basically that if the devs open a bit more up for mods when the game has been released and such, i think you would start to see more 3rd party teams. I know im taking dcs as an example all the time, but just look at it, that game is all about realism down to every button, and now that they have opened up for mods, third party teams are making quite a few airplanes. You can expect to see alot of ww2 in the future there. One team ( not going to name) that ive spoken to is hoping to push out maybe 1 fighter every 6 months.. I dont know mind you, quite a few of the people in these teams were the modders in il-2 1946

[Rama]

I have no idea about 1CGS detailed plans for mods after release.

I told you that maps and 3D objects will certainly be possible (it is allready), and what 1CGS policy for plane mods will be (either nothing, or casual agreements with capable teams, or organized with third-party licence), is unknown... and one almost sure thing is that they will not make annoucements or talk about it before the release and the success of it.

So you will not get more informations about it in this thread.

[FarlanderMiG]

Sorry , we should just stop that conversation there, my reason for this tread was to see what people think about modding, not getting into "fights"

[Pharoah]

The first map mod (Velikye Luki extract) was added to the game with last week update... so modding is allready there before the release.

There's no doubt 3d object can be added to the game with a SDK (used by the team that created the new VL map)

For the planes, it's a different story. It would be hard to find a team developping a plane with appropriate quality standard.... and in any case the FMs will only been done by the dev.

 

Agree. Maps are a good start. I'm quite astounded with the quality of the a/c produced by 777. Like DCS, there IS a market for downloadable aircraft as long as it runs seamlessly and is compatible online with those that don't have it. We've already had requests for the JU-52 which I know the devs have been made aware of. To keep control of the quality of this sim, I reckon its best we leave a/c modding to the devs. I too had issues with Il2 1946 due to the different mods and stuff - don't get me wrong, when all the ducks lined up, it was EXCELLENT...its just that the ducks didn't always line up, which became an exercise in frustration to the point that I'd just quit and go play something else.

[Rama]

Sorry , we should just stop that conversation there, my reason for this tread was to see what people think about modding, not getting into "fights"

There's no fights. I just tell you you'll probably can't get information by the dev about plane modding policy. I don't ask you to stop the discussion.

 

I also hope there would be plane development by third parties... (in a controlled way), that's all I can say without more informations.

[Leaf]

As long as there's some sort of quality-control implemented I hope modding thrives here.

[FarlanderMiG]

There's no fights. I just tell you you'll probably can't get information by the dev about plane modding policy. I don't ask you to stop the discussion.

 

I also hope there would be plane development by third parties... (in a controlled way), that's all I can say without more informations.

I wasnt really trying to say that there was a fight, that was me not being too good in english, choosing the wrong word.. I acually completely agree with you, i dont expect any kind of information from the devs either, i just wanted to see what people tought about the idea of modding :D

[39bn_pavig]

RoF has a good simple approach to mods. Basic mods such as new aircraft skins are allowed anywhere. Gameplay modifying mods must be turned off to play on multiplayer servers. It is a tight restriction but seems to work quite well.

 

Arma3 has a slightly more developed system where mods are signed by the author with a checksum, and are available for play on servers which have the validation key installed. This way illegitimate mods and cheats can be avoided. Arma also lets client-side mods which don't mess with gameplay be run without server checks.

 

From my understanding mods will be possible, and given the history of the developer will not be likely to break online play. Oh... And I like mods.

[FarlanderMiG]

RoF has a good simple approach to mods. Basic mods such as new aircraft skins are allowed anywhere. Gameplay modifying mods must be turned off to play on multiplayer servers. It is a tight restriction but seems to work quite well.

 

Arma3 has a slightly more developed system where mods are signed by the author with a checksum, and are available for play on servers which have the validation key installed. This way illegitimate mods and cheats can be avoided. Arma also lets client-side mods which don't mess with gameplay be run without server checks.

 

From my understanding mods will be possible, and given the history of the developer will not be likely to break online play. Oh... And I like mods.

Skins is nice   and if the devs decide to make the game larger than just the eastern front and expands to all of ww2 (like 1946) then i would not be in any need of mods. it's not that i don't like the eastern front, trust me, i like the eastern front the best   but basically, what i would like is a game like this, not being focused on just one front, kind of like a modernized 1946 if you get what i mean 

[DD_bongodriver]

As long as there's some sort of quality-control implemented I hope modding thrives here.

 

I don't see why the community can't mod to it's hearts content, nobody is ever forced to use mods of a sub standard, but it would accelerate the process of getting more content, at least I think users should be able to have a complete sandbox for offline use and submit any mods to the devs or appointed community to QC them.

[FarlanderMiG]

yea, but mods can get out of controll... Arma is now a DayZ/pvp simulator.. but then again without mods, neither arma or 1946 would survive for so long. without mods in 1946 the game would be completely dead by now. so i think you should allow mods, but in a more controlled way where they maybe choose mods that are good enough and add them to the game, maybe take them over and do the finishing work. i think that you would get more content faster this way. but who knows... it's their game, their decition. and i think the game will be good anyways, that's why i bought it..

 

(had to redo the post sry)

Edited September 1, 2014 by [CTRL]FarlanderMiG

[Dakpilot]

In RoF Mods on is allowed in MP servers it is just a server setting choice

 

There are many more mods than just aircraft skins allowed but not whole new A/C so far there have been Totally new maps (now integrated into vanilla game) new map textures, different trees different bump mapped textures, new airfield textures, new buildings, new building skins , new vehicle skins , new vehicles and horse drawn units, infantry advancing, new ships, cockpit textures, pilot skins, AI mods, aircraft engine textures, new fortifications, new historic airfields and ground units and many more I have forgotten, in fact there are 322 Mod topics in the Mod section of the RoF forum and a dedicated official Mods site by the Devs. 

 

With the same stated attitude and support of built in Mods on mode There will be, I am sure, a large modding community involved, with the far greater scope WWII brings over a WWI scenario.

 

But first lets allow the game to be released then the modding tools will come, If (when?) BoS is a successful release, more theatres will be released... just like the Channel Map, ships, submarines and seaplanes  in RoF

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited September 1, 2014 by Dakpilot

[FarlanderMiG]

In RoF Mods on is allowed in MP servers it is just a server setting choice

 

There are many more mods than just aircraft skins allowed but not whole new A/C so far there have been Totally new maps (now integrated into vanilla game) new map textures, different trees different bump mapped textures, new airfield textures, new buildings, new building skins , new vehicle skins , new vehicles and horse drawn units, infantry advancing, new ships, cockpit textures, pilot skins, AI mods, aircraft engine textures, new fortifications, new historic airfields and ground units and many more I have forgotten, in fact there are 322 Mod topics in the Mod section of the RoF forum and a dedicated official Mods site by the Devs. 

 

With the same stated attitude and support of built in Mods on mode There will be, I am sure a large modding community will become involved with the far greater scope WWII brings over a WWI scenario.

 

But first lets allow the game to be released then the modding tools will come, If (when?) BoS is a successful release, more theatres will be released... just like the Channel Map, ships, submarines and seaplanes  in RoF

 

Cheers Dakpilot

well said! i completely agree that we need to let them finish the game first it's good to see that most people are for modding though, it's just a bit sad when you see so many games where modding could make them better, but the devs decide to block all kinds of mods.

[FS_Roadrunner_14]

Within a few years I'm sure. From what we've seen in RoF, modding is possible, but with a fairly limited scope. Don't expect whole airplanes to be modded into the game anytime soon, the devs have a pretty high standard for that kind of stuff.

 

As far as I know 777 bought an I-16 and an Il-4 which are basically already done. We might see some new planes down the line and considering those two planes I listed, the good companions for them are obviously a 109E and a Ju88. Only time will tell!

 

I concur that mods are essential to lenghten the lifespan and general interest in the game, but as somebody already pointed out, it would be best if it was done in a controlled way.

C'mon devs, give us some hope...and an SDK!  

[Chuck_Owl]

As far as I know 777 bought an I-16 and an Il-4 which are basically already done. We might see some new planes down the line and considering those two planes I listed, the good companions for them are obviously a 109E and a Ju88. Only time will tell!

 

I concur that mods are essential to lenghten the lifespan and general interest in the game, but as somebody already pointed out, it would be best if it was done in a controlled way.

C'mon devs, give us some hope...and an SDK!

 

Il-4??????!!!!!!!!! And a Ju-88?

 

[Dakpilot]

 

 

I concur that mods are essential to lenghten the lifespan and general interest in the game, but as somebody already pointed out, it would be best if it was done in a controlled way.

C'mon devs, give us some hope...and an SDK!

 

Already exist in RoF , I think the priority for the devs is to finish Beta testing and get a stable release   then we can see what happens. I think the already available small Mod map and future larger one are pointing at what to expect in the future

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Vaxxtx]

Tightly controlled mods also turn off serious modders. When you limit what can be done, you limit talent.

 

I and others mentioned IL2 46 and ARMA, but also think about Half Life (where modders were actually hired due to their work), Skyrim, Mount and Blade, Total War, DCS, Falcon4.0, Wings over Flanders, the X series, etc. etc. MOST of those have an online component and mods not only did not interfere, but in some cases enhanced it. Counter Strike anyone? 

 

Some mods were awesome utilities, so were just for flavor, some were cockpit enhancements, some were sound, but the great thing about them is you can choose to use them or not. Want Vanilla? Fine. Want a few mods to enhance Vanilla? Fine. Want to totally redo your game with mods? Have at it.

I would not play X3 without mods. I would not play Mount and Blade without them. I could not play DCS Black Shark without Ricardos cockpit....its 100% better than the original.

 

For online play, I get there needs to be restrictions setup for the server to decide what is or is not allowed, but for offline I see no reason for a "limited" tool. You want BoS to be around for years to come? You want the devs to have a dedicated base of players that keep coming back to buy new planes, theatres, expansions? Then support mods.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Vaxxtx

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I understand both camps, keep it controlled and you dont fracture your community, let loose and modders can go wild, but its risking splitting up the community into "favorite mod" groups. Which certianly DID happen in 1946. Id like to just start with some effects mods similar to what came out in RoF. Simple things like a beter looking Sun, different Flak smoke and MORE flak.

 

One of the first mods Im hoping to see is a better looking more pronounced vortices off the wingtips. Not to compare sims but DCS got this one nailed. IF someone could just take teh same effect that the "Contrail" has, make it much smaller and then attach it to the wingtips, have it appear in the same parameters as currently. ID be very impressed. The thin little lines just don't do it for me. It looks dated and inaccurate.

 

Other than that some objects/buildings to disersify the area would be cool.

[LuftManu]

Pics from the leaked I-16 and Il-4 , I found them on ED forum

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2163311#post2163311

 

 

 

 

And a YAk-9 

 

 

[sturmkraehe]

Tightly controlled mods also turn off serious modders. When you limit what can be done, you limit talent.

 

I and others mentioned IL2 46 and ARMA, but also think about Half Life (where modders were actually hired due to their work), Skyrim, Mount and Blade, Total War, DCS, Falcon4.0, Wings over Flanders, the X series, etc. etc. MOST of those have an online component and mods not only did not interfere, but in some cases enhanced it. Counter Strike anyone? 

 

Some mods were awesome utilities, so were just for flavor, some were cockpit enhancements, some were sound, but the great thing about them is you can choose to use them or not. Want Vanilla? Fine. Want a few mods to enhance Vanilla? Fine. Want to totally redo your game with mods? Have at it.

I would not play X3 without mods. I would not play Mount and Blade without them. I could not play DCS Black Shark without Ricardos cockpit....its 100% better than the original.

 

For online play, I get there needs to be restrictions setup for the server to decide what is or is not allowed, but for offline I see no reason for a "limited" tool. You want BoS to be around for years to come? You want the devs to have a dedicated base of players that keep coming back to buy new planes, theatres, expansions? Then support mods.

 

The thing with "mods" (let's not forget that the "mods" of IL2 1947 are all based on a hack) have the inconvenience that every more or less talented modder wants a specific plane how he views it. So to everyone his version of a Spit or a 109. Best way to split a community and kill off online play for a tiny niche groupe like flight simmers. 

 

Such things may work for games that have a vast player community. It is certain death for a small one. Sorry, when you call 1947 alive you don't have seen the activity before the hack. I've seen it. Numbers on hyperlobby dropped steadily from over 1000 players each night to something much much less. It was already hard to find a constantly populated full real server with great missions before the mods. Afterwards it was basically impossible to find one that was ALSO vanilla. That's when I stopped playing it and never touched it since.

 

I think something like having an official 3rd party team for larger mods like what has been done with team daidalos and controlled results is a good approach. Tools and smaller mods will surely be possible in the future in ROF style. However don't expect to see modded planes or maps. The devs want still to sell their own additional content in order to earn money for further developments.

Edited September 1, 2014 by sturmkraehe

[Livai]

Simple things like a beter looking Sun, different Flak smoke and MORE flak.

And clouds? How about this clouds here?

 

 

 

 

[Vaxxtx]

The thing with "mods" (let's not forget that the "mods" of IL2 1947 are all based on a hack) have the inconvenience that every more or less talented modder wants a specific plane how he views it. So to everyone his version of a Spit or a 109. Best way to split a community and kill off online play for a tiny niche groupe like flight simmers. 

 

Such things may work for games that have a vast player community. It is certain death for a small one. Sorry, when you call 1947 alive you don't have seen the activity before the hack. I've seen it. Numbers on hyperlobby dropped steadily from over 1000 players each night to something much much less. It was already hard to find a constantly populated full real server with great missions before the mods. Afterwards it was basically impossible to find one that was ALSO vanilla. That's when I stopped playing it and never touched it since.

 

I think something like having an official 3rd party team for larger mods like what has been done with team daidalos and controlled results is a good approach. Tools and smaller mods will surely be possible in the future in ROF style. However don't expect to see modded planes or maps. The devs want still to sell their own additional content in order to earn money for further developments.

 

Developers see an aircraft how they see it too, no? Are developers people just like a modder? Do modders not have access to information that some developers do? Do you think if a talented modder got the code for say... WT, they could not make it more realistic? The argument that dev > modder is not always true. So your point on this, I just don't see. DCS has 3rd party dev/modders making intricate planes with more complexity since its a study sim.

 

The correct term is IL2 46' was cracked, not hacked. But if it was not cracked and modded, there would have been a lot, lot less content, as well as dying out. Mods not only added content, but also updated the graphics as much as possible, updated the water, smoke trails, and other visual stuff that kept it somewhat passable. HFSX did a great job with new AI as well.

 

And as far as multi goes, the numbers on hyperlobby dropped from vanilla. Yes, that goes to prove people like the mods, obviously over vanilla. It just proves the point mods made that game last, and even now still relevant, instead of something that was cool, and then passed over.

 

So don't expect to see planes or maps? Didn't a map just released due to a mod?

 

And finally, devs still make money off new content. ARMA has done it many times. You release content and it gives modders new things to work with. Its not taking money away from a dev house it is actually bringing more in. Mods = loyalty = more apt to buy = more money.....its a proven cycle.

[Rama]

Developers see an aircraft how they see it too, no? 

Yes. and?

 

The argument that dev > modder is not always true.

Maybe, but this isn't the point. The point is that in a "free modding" system, you will have 6 versions of the same Bf109-F4.... you can't play with 6 versions of the same plane, one has to be choosen, and the choosen one should be the same for every player.... or the multiplayer activity will be balkanized in small chappels, each one practising the cult of a given plane set version. And the capacity to get thousands of players playing the same big online war will be lost.

That's what happened to Il2 after the hack. some confidential online wars rassembling a handfull of fellow squads continued, but the big online war momentum was lost.

 

But if it was not cracked and modded, there would have been a lot, lot less content, as well as dying out.

It's a common missconception of what happened, a kind of ideal read of history.... but still a missconception.

Modding in Il2 started long time before the hack, it started a few monthes after release. Tons of inside content was done by modders, maps, planes, etc.... but in a controlled way. Maybe half of the maps and planes of the "vanilla" version were in fact modder's works (I myself participated to the teams creating the maps of Norway, Burma, Italia online, Desert map, Bessarabia, etc...). And all these added content was close to the dev quality standards). This could have continued a long time (and it did a bit, with the Daedalus team).

What happened after the hack?.... some good stuff, some even of superb quality (like the Slovakia map)... and tons of very average quality stuff; including some hideous frankenplanes... and chappels. some "teams" built self-proclamed "best mod collection" and started to fight with other teams doing the same. That's when I and many other guys I knew and played great games and online wars during years just stopped. The game lost all interest for they and I.

 

So yes, I'm all for modding, but for controlled one. A modder calling for "freedom" is mostly afraid not to be able to reach the quality standards and not having his average work making it into the game. Good modders will reach the quality standards... if they accept to communicate with the dev about the quality standards.

"Free modding" is placing the responsability to define the quality standard on the players. Most of them have no time to sort the pepits from the crap and to read all the forums to find people they could play with (sharing the same standards). That means it not only balkanize the online community, but also reduce it. "Free modding" transform a game into a product for modder's pleasure. to take in account the player pleasure, especially for the online crowd, controlled modding is necessary.

 

Now you have also some modders that can't accept to work with the dev. Some of them can be very good, but their ego push them to developp their "own game". They can succeed by scavenging a dead sim... like for exemple OFF. But guess what... then they are acting like a dev, and will want to control all moding on "their game".... (and if they want it not yo become a big garbage holding some unsearchable treasure inside, they're actuall right wanting to control it...)

[Bussard_x]

Nice pictures. According to link the I16 and IL-4 come from "Battle of Moscow", was supposed to be the sequel of Clod.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Benz

[Sparrer]

I stopped to play because there was a lot of mods and everybody wants do play your favorite one. The virtual wars collapsed.

The modders fight with other, like Falcon 4:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Falcon-4-history.svg


But i really appreciate some mods! Some are fantastic, i really liked it. They can make a killed game reborn, really. Like they did with falcon

 But they also can spread the few online survivors into their own island of taste. Its an uncontroled monster.

But, imagine if the dev's acquire them into sim in a non bureaucratic way?
 Thas exactly where the problem is

The il2 dev's didn't had the humility to recognize some modders did best than themselves. They didn't saw how mods could make the tired and overpast il2 franchise survive.........


.....or even better, they wanted to kill il2 naturally to make a new need arise, for then.... they sell it: Clod

I think, if the devs have humility to recognize some mods quality are even better their own work and put it into sim easily and share it....we'll have a win-win relation

[FS_Roadrunner_14]

 

So yes, I'm all for modding, but for controlled one. A modder calling for "freedom" is mostly afraid not to be able to reach the quality standards and not having his average work making it into the game. Good modders will reach the quality standards... if they accept to communicate with the dev about the quality standards.

Some of them can be very good, but their ego push them to developp their "own game".

 

Rama, I built quite a few planes for CFS3/MAW, some of them got ported into other sims, FS9/X, even in Il2 post mods (Sm.79 pit), I'm a so called "modder" (as degrading as the word is to me). But I've never, ever felt the need to communicate with a dev. Because there is no need, and there shouldn't be. If the devs want third party content they just need to put out guidelines like max polys/textures/you name it, a complete source file for every object category we can model and the exporters. In a word, SDK. That's the only communication needed and it's not from modders side.

Then and only then, with a finished mod, the devs can decide to put it into the game and enable it for multiplayer, even sell it. Singleplayer should be free of any restrictions. It's really as simple as that IF there is the will to do it.

There's a lot of dedicated people out there who would do wonders with the right tools, many of them for free. The same people that build their own game, not because of their ego, but because out of frustration from the lack of communication from the devs they have no other choice.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Rama, I built quite a few planes for CFS3/MAW, some of them got ported into other sims, FS9/X, even in Il2 post mods (Sm.79 pit), I'm a so called "modder" (as degrading as the word is to me). But I've never, ever felt the need to communicate with a dev. Because there is no need, and there shouldn't be. If the devs want third party content they just need to put out guidelines like max polys/textures/you name it, a complete source file for every object category we can model and the exporters. In a word, SDK. That's the only communication needed and it's not from modders side.

Then and only then, with a finished mod, the devs can decide to put it into the game and enable it for multiplayer, even sell it. Singleplayer should be free of any restrictions. It's really as simple as that IF there is the will to do it.

There's a lot of dedicated people out there who would do wonders with the right tools, many of them for free. The same people that build their own game, not because of their ego, but because out of frustration from the lack of communication from the devs they have no other choice.

I understand where you are coming from and agree. As long as the devs control the content that is released. I think thats gine. Then they can even help bring the quality if needed. Its just when modders want anything and everything they make released into the wild. ARMA is a great example of some great mods but a whole lot mm of utter garbage. Just because one makes a box that can fly doesnt give one the privelidge of having it enter the realm of what the devs created. After all its a reflection of THEIR product.

[SharpeXB]

The developer should have sole control over the flight model and creating aircraft. Probably maps too.

Allowing modders to play with the FM would lead to chaos online and 3rd parties giving away planes for free kills the Devs efforts to sell additional content.

RoF has some really good mods that are officially available on the 777 website. 3rd party campaigns like the Pat Wilson one are great too.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Pics from the leaked I-16 and Il-4 , I found them on ED forum

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2163311#post2163311

 

 

 

 

And a YAk-9 

 

 

If the devs for BoM had these then the devs for BoS have these. I cant wait to fly the I16

[LizLemon]

According to Psy, who made the above models, 777 only has the I-16.

 

The Yak-9 is for DCS.

[siipperi]

Don't want horrid flighmodels that most of IL2 46 planes had. If they build them like 777 I have no problem.

 

I don't see BoS going to 3rd party route and devs have said this before.

[Rama]

But I've never, ever felt the need to communicate with a dev.

Then you missed an interesting part of the modding work (or the benevolent third-party work, if you prefer that way). Communicating with the dev allways helps to do things better, and to learn quicker. And it allows also to share views and informations about historical material and about the game.

 

Because there is no need, and there shouldn't be.

Your opinion.... I think the full opposite (and also have been a "modder" (or a free contributor) since the early IL2 days until today). More good work is done if everybody is communicating and collaborating.

 

There's a lot of dedicated people out there who would do wonders with the right tools, many of them for free.

There are a lot of dedicated people that actually do wonders (with or without "right" Tools), and most if not all of them for free, in good intelligence with the dev. That was also the case with Il2 before the hack, and it is the case with RoF and BoS... and there will be more.

There's no need to hide in an ivory tower to be a modder (or a free contributor).

 

because out of frustration from the lack of communication from the devs they have no other choice.

That's a bit contradictory with the first sentence. If a dev communication is needed, it's better to "feel the need" to communicate with them.