VO101Tom Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 As I see, I will not be too popular with this topic, but I don't understand these excited and happy topics about of ROF engine. Luthier and the team made incredible awesome work, and I am very sorry, that the project rejected. Ok, not completely, but the most important part, the software-core will be totally different. After I read the announcements yesterday, I install the ROF, just see the basics, what we expect with BoS. I was very optimistic, and hope the best... Perhaps my expectations were too much after the praise, but I was suprised of the details of ROF. It's clear that I compared with the interrupted clod, and the difference is very obvious. This comparsion not about only the graphics, but the fps, wich was half in ROF than in CloD. Maybe i missed some settings, but i thought the 3+ year old game should run without compromise, if the Clod able to run 40-50 fps offline/online... it seems I was wrong. We don't know what will achieved by the merged ROF-CloD team, we don't know the details of the BoS, but I'm really don't understand why "this is the best thing what ever happen"... why?First the landscape. Almost empty landscape with black amoebae forests, and glowing horizon, the water is mirror-like, which rather fit into a Disney movie. 25 fps CloD landscape. Much detailed. Both picture was taken 1km alt. 40-45 fps. ROF Town. Put couple of boxes in the middle of the nowhere, no roads, no details. That's all? 15 fps here... Compare with clod (not to mention London for example) lot's of details, and lot more fps! The trees... I can't say anything. It is a tree-picture on a plane, which always turn into the camera... Clod tree. It needless to say how far superior these 3D models than the obsolete plane style. (and again, much more fps in clod). Oh, yes, I remeber. It have no collision modelling. Who cares the tree collision model, if the other solution is the previously showed thing up there... the plane thing... or what. In addition, I was read in Farber's comment, the ROF engine can't handle too much object in online. Too much disturbing issue, which need to be solved... So, I'm asking again, please someone explain why should we be so happy? 1
Feathered_IV Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Must be a bad selection of graphics settings to bring your fps so low. Setting everything to highest and ticking every box doesn't necessarily mean the best looking result. Maybe have a look at the RoF forums and you might find the sweet spot for your system. I know clod had some significant advantages in it's landscape. Perhaps we can look forward to some of this know how being adapted to refinements in the DN engine? We're all in it together now after all.
Doogerie Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I answer you there take out the point the the graphics are not quie as good the psycal feeling of the aircraft in rOF is superb als the flightmodel is exalaplry thats why this is big news that and teh fact that everyonr loves thr IL2 also as 777 are at the helm now it should fix CLOD as wellI may fnaly to be abel to fly over the english cahnnel in my spit without any probelms also Stangrad will be fun to fight over
SYN_Jedders Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Thats the whole point. It isnt going to be "shoehorning" WW2 aircraft into RoF. It will be a combination of an advanced DN engine and elements of CloD. Together we will get the best of both sims and hopefully leave the restrictions of each behind. One thing is for sure, we will get to see a lot of information coming in regular intervals if 777 keep to their usual M.O. which will give us plenty of time to decide just how satisfied/unsatisfied we each will be. Based on that each of us can decide whether to support the game with our money. Its a shared future we are looking at.
Sim Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 If you have selected super-sampling + 8x AA - no wonder you are struggling with the FPS. As someone suggestion - don't just tick every possible option in the graphics settings... As for the landscape - do remember that BOS is coming out in 2014 and comparing CloD to RoF right now is a bit useless. They will improve the landscape engine I am sure, but they can't just tell you exactly how it will look like at this point, and what to expect.
6S.Manu Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) and so it begins... ^_^ Tom, do you think I'm going to care about the tree's detail while I'm flying at 5km? Edited December 12, 2012 by 6SManu 1
Zmaj76 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) dude installed ROF today, didnt went through all the settings in manual, didnt ask about SSA and AA, a combination which will bring to knees almost ever rig....and hes now making judgements....ahahah Tom heres and advice...turn off SSA and maybe pos effects (no need to use them really, atl east in MP) and then judge....yeah, Dx11 landscape is more convincing than DX from ROF but at least the trees are not ghosts.... Edited December 12, 2012 by Tvrdi
chdt Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) VO101_Tom, I think you're right saying "I'll not be popular" ;-) but, at least, you're not alone, I must say I agree with you. But of course, it the ROF Stalingrad engine will be modernized to current standards, I'll be the first to say "well done, I buy it". Edited December 12, 2012 by CHDT
slm Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 ROF trees don't bother me at all. I won't be watching their details from air. But hope there will be roads in BoS.
SYN_Haashashin Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 ROF trees don't bother me at all. I won't be watching their details from air. But hope there will be roads in BoS. There are road in RoF. He just took a pic of the wrong town. Just let me point out that is 1917...not all town have nice asphalt road. He should fly over Arras or a bigger city...not an french countryside 1917 little town. 1
vl6 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I know it's sad that Clod is dead, but at that point it was something inevitable. If it was that close to be fixed, as some guys keep screaming, dont you think that 777 would had kept it? No, the engine of Clod was doomed, it was a simulator that keep crashing after all the patches, where you can?
Gourmand Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) i'm agree with it... graphic engine of clod and clickable cockpit, with good developpment decision, and economic way as ROF was the greatest fusion... i am the same graphic with ROF and CLOD like the owner topic... engine clod was the best for the next, but i can understand that is had too much bugs. I hope the fusion take the best of the both team, and communauty need a lot of communication, project developpment and screenshot... Edited December 12, 2012 by gourmand
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) It appears you might need to adjust your ROF settings... Edited December 12, 2012 by Furbs
AdlerAngriff Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Personaly I think that ROF looks pretty nice. No problems with immersion. Yes updates are necessary but also on the way. ROF is however a 2009 game. So I think combining 1C and 777 in 2012 going into 2013 shows promise. Two heads are smarter than one
LeazesNDR Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) If Cliffs of Dover engine was so good why did so many programmers fail to fix it (several of them leaving the company during this time as well!) and why whenever a problem was fixed why did it seem to leave 10 new problems that also needed fixing.... also why can you fly through trees? (If you dont believe these claims just look at the complaints about Clod over the past year or so on the Banana forum) Truth is your beloved Clod engine aint all it was cracked up to be, if it was you would have a flourishing sim instead of a dead duck that has been more or less abandoned by its makers.. There's no wonder a certain Russian gentleman scarpered as soon as Clod was released as he knew what was going to happen. :D Heres hoping that the the best features of Rise Of Flight and Cliffs Of Dover are incorporated into the new sim. If they are, everyone's a winner. Edited December 12, 2012 by LeazesNDR 1
LeazesNDR Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 It appears you might need to adjust your ROF settings... http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3697483.html#Post3697483 That told him... :D
Skoshi_Tiger Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) If Cliffs of Dover engine was so good why did so many programmers fail to fix it (several of them leaving the company during this time as well!) and why whenever a problem was fixed why did it seem to leave 10 new problems that also needed fixing.... also why can you fly through trees? (If you dont believe these claims just look at the complaints about Clod over the past year or so on the Banana forum) Truth is your beloved Clod engine aint all it was cracked up to be, if it was you would have a flourishing sim instead of a dead duck. There's no wonder a certain Russian gentleman scarpered as soon as Clod was released as he knew what was going to happen. :D Heres hoping that the the best features of Rise Of Flight and Cliffs Of Dover are incorporated into the new sim. If they are, everyone's a winner. You might want to read those complaints yourself. After the last patch most of the big ones evaporated. Many of the issues were fix simply by following your advice and using realistic settings, but you can't tell people who have obsessed with how 'bad' the product was, and as Jason has said many times, without community support a project will fail. By the end most of the complaints were about the percieved injustices committed by the project management and a few of the most vocal have admitted that they hadn't even bought the product! Go figure! Good thing is that most people have a relatively stable Cliffs of Dover and we have ROF to use over the next year until BoS is released. Can't wait till those development updates! Cheers! Edited December 12, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger
chdt Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I've now a big pc (bought for work) 32 gigas of ram, a 670 with 4 gigas: never experienced a single crash with Clodo, very fluid even on London on high settings.
FI_Wardog Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I have to say I am looking forward to this collaboration. If they can get the graphics of CLOD working with the physics of ROF i for one will be a very happy boy. Clod though very good looking was a complete dog when it came to game play and the fact they never got it running properly was for me a huge letdown. Fair enough ROF when released was just as porked but they worked their collective socks off to fix the issues and produced a fantastic sim.
GAVCA/Jambock__28 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I just hope that BoS to maintain the same level for the FM / DM / CEM than in CloD ... Visual issues has for me a secondary importance, but I do not see why the RoF engine would not be improved to provide a better standard like in CLoD. But I disagree about the water: the physics in RoF is much better than in CLoD, although the mirror appearance is unrealistic... But most important is that we have a team that will be able to continue improving the engine and offering new features.
FlatSpinMan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Interesting to see the comparison. CloD looks really good in those shots, and even if you adjust your RoF settings, I imagine it would carry the day. However, in game I found RoF looked really good as I flew about. It does need more 'stuff' though, IMO. Hopefully BOS will be a good compromise.
gavagai Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) The OP probably had super sampling + 8AA enabled in the configuration launcher. The maximum you are supposed to do is supersampling + 2x anti-aliasing, and that's if you have a very beefy gpu. For all that, it looks like his terrain detail is only set to medium, and he's not using maximum shaders He would be the first person I've heard of to have better fps in Clod than RoF. One of the strengths of Rise of Flight is that it runs on a wide range of computers. Those of you with 32 gigs of ram and 3gb video cards might not see it that way, but part of Rise of Flight's success is being able to run splendidly with mid-range hardware. Edited December 12, 2012 by gavagai
AndyJWest Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 the water is mirror-like Er, yes - you can see your aeroplane reflected in it. And your aeroplane's shadow on it. Water does that. As in this bit of RoF silliness, which shows it off nicely (though what it says about my piloting skills, I'm not sure) You can also (if you are careful) dip your wheels in it in flight (no spray as yet, that should come with the next patch). Fly close to it, and you'll get drops of spray on your goggles. And with the upcoming Channel map, we'll have waves - see this 777 WIP video from a few months back: B) There are some things that RoF could usefully do better (and I'm sure BoS will), but the water isn't one of them.
kestrel79 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 One thing I hope they can bring over from CoD is the exhaust flames. Coolest visual feature of that sim was flying at dawk or dusk and seeing your blue flames firing out of your engines. SO awesome.
bzc3lk Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 If your only getting 25fps with screen shots of that quality, you clearly have something terribly wrong with your game set up. I'm getting a fluid 45 to 60 fps in combat with a computer long past its prime.
ACG_Dickie Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I answer you there take out the point the the graphics are not quie as good the psycal feeling of the aircraft in rOF is superb als the flightmodel is exalaplry thats why this is big news that and teh fact that everyonr loves thr IL2 also as 777 are at the helm now it should fix CLOD as wellI may fnaly to be abel to fly over the english cahnnel in my spit without any probelms also Stangrad will be fun to fight over What on earth makes you think that you can't do that? Most of the problems and 'unplayability' that people complained about were from people who didn't even fly COD, just moaned about it. Tom flies in the same weekend campaign as me, we have 90 online at once and the RAF hammer into 50+ AI bombers in formation, mayhem in a small area. I only have a 560Ti and I run 19x12 max'd out in COD - no problems. Don't know why ROF don't take the COD engine and optimise it because it's better than the ROF one. (Yes I have ROF and have flown it a fair bit, not for a while though)
LG1.Farber Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I think Tom has made some very valuble points. However allot of people have decided in this thread that it is a case of the RoF vs IL2 fans - which has pretty much ruined this thread. - Just like they did on the banana forum.
Sim Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Don't know why ROF don't take the COD engine and optimise it because it's better than the ROF one. Are you kidding me? Please look at the stick in the cockpit and move it around. What do you see? They could not even get the basic stick animation working. The animation runs at 5fps or so. Also - every time you close the canopy (with TrackIR) your head view jumps up and down. I am not even going to go into other details, like the clouds. Edited December 12, 2012 by Sim
FlatSpinMan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Since we don't make the decisions, can we not just agree that each had its merits? Trying to convert people to one or the other when the new one will be elements of both seems a bit pointless.
cellinsky Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Give me the best of both worlds, and Im happy....
71st_AH_Hooves Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Yes each did have its merits. And a Screenshot of Clod looks AMAZING with the right settings, just ignore that Dot through the clouds, wait is that a 109 escaping England through the trees? Wait a minute, why are these clouds made of liquid nitrogen? Come to think of it has there EVER been a storm in England? Lets top all of this off with, COD IS DEAD, WHAT CHOICE DO YOU HAVE? You Fan boys of CLOD keep going on and on like Cliffs is going to some how miraculously without a dev team, SDK, Source Code, money, or time, come back from the dead to show up the RoF engine. Just face it gents what ever it did better its going to be in the grave by Jan 2014. Enjoy it while it lasts. Then come over and rejoice that someone has been brave enough to continue the work and attempt to make a great product for us to enjoy for awhile longer.
Trooper117 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Please gents, let's not have any 'my game is better' attitudes marring the forums on day one! This is a step forward not back.. People need to realise this is a completely new game on an engine that hasn't been built yet! Comparison pictures are meaningless at the moment as none of you can compare with what we don't have. This is the time to embrace the new direction and thank 777 and IC for merging and working together, think about it 'working together' for the common good!
ACG_Dickie Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Are you kidding me? Please look at the stick in the cockpit and move it around. What do you see? They could not even get the basic stick animation working. The animation runs at 5fps or so. Also - every time you close the canopy (with TrackIR) your head view jumps up and down. I am not even going to go into other details, like the clouds. Why are you looking at the stick when you are flying? I'm looking out of the window at the marvellous scenery. It sounds like you need to set up your trackIR though, I can give you a profile which will not do this.
LeazesNDR Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I think Tom has made some very valuble points. However allot of people have decided in this thread that it is a case of the RoF vs IL2 fans - which has pretty much ruined this thread. - Just like they did on the banana forum. The thread was started by someone showing unoptimised piccies of ROF and fully optimised gfx of Cliffs so what do you expect. A lot of IL2 regulars have already decided that the ROF engine is garbage and are pursuing a relentless hate campaign against it. I'm saying that the ROF engine has evolved quite a lot since the sim was released and I fully expect the engine of the new sim to keep evolving especially now that the 2 teams have merged. I think the future looks very bright, not gloomy as the IL2 ROF hating brigade would have you believe.
LeazesNDR Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 You might want to read those complaints yourself. After the last patch most of the big ones evaporated. They did indeed, but was it not a bloke from 777 (Loft) who fixed most of the problems? Dont get me wrong I dont think Cliffs is too bad at all but IMO there is a lot of baloney being written and said about comparisons of how wonderful Cliffs engine is and how crap RoF's engine is. Like someone else, the engine for the new sim will probably be improved and will have evolved from what it presently is for Stalingrad by time it hits t'internet. Cant wait for it, really.
LeazesNDR Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) So, I'm asking again, please someone explain why should we be so happy? Trees you can collide with when you hit them and not fly through like in your bottom picture and something wonderful and real, often found in England and France (except in Cliffs Of Dover) called rain and crap weather. Searchlights in a night scenario??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1kreLrDc0 Tha'ts a start innit. Have faith, I reckon that the shortcomings of both sims will be improved by this new venture. Edited December 12, 2012 by LeazesNDR
JG4_Sputnik Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Why should we be happy? - 1c and 777 layed track for the future of our main hobby as oppose to no ww2 at all. - Way better physics - Way better relationship information flow to the community - constantly improoving the game and releasing content No we wont get everything we want, but we arent like these kids who think they will get it anyway, arent we?
Freycinet Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 To me there's no doubt that the CoD landscape is much more rich and lush-looking. There are some moments of striking beauty when flying over it, especially in the warm glow of early morning or late evening light. The drawbacks of fly-thru trees and limited weather are very big, but I hope we can at least aspire to an equal degree of "lushness" in the landscape we will get in BoS.
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