Developer Diary, Part XXVII

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Yes its possible to run co-op style missions in a DF server, sort of.

 

The real reason co-ops are needed is sqd training, in this a DF server can not complete...

 

If your sqd wants to practice high alt dogfighting 4 vs 4 or low level IL2 ground attacks you dont want to spend 20mins each time taking off and flying to the target or cap area, you need to be able to start or change the mission often.

 

You cant do this with a DF server.

 

I wont lie, im confused and disappointed with no coop mode, one of the reasons sqds didnt switch over to CLOD was the lack of a proper coop mode and i cant understand the reasoning not having it.

 

Its not a deal breaker and i still think BOS will be a stunning sim and im still right behind the development team but its the first time i think its not the right move.

 

I hope the team will think this over again or at least put it high on the list of features to add as soon as possible.

[BraveSirRobin]

 

If your sqd wants to practice high alt dogfighting 4 vs 4 or low level IL2 ground attacks you dont want to spend 20mins each time taking off and flying to the target or cap area, you need to be able to start or change the mission often.

 

You cant do this with a DF server.

 

 

Why not? I have flown in lots of RoF missions with air spawns.

[Pupo]

the thing about COOPs was just their simplicity.

 

It was easy to design a mission, time it as you wanted, no testing needing, no extended briefings  etc.

 

You could launch your missions in HL with a group of 10 strangers 5 aside, they would get in read the briefing you have placed. Do what is said ( they could chose not to, but they wouldnt find anything else on the map), press fly, enjoy the mission and disconnect for a completely new mission.

 

In DF missions if you want this happening you really have to get a grip of the participants telling them when, and where to spawn.

 

If you dont believe in me, recreate this "coop" classic mission, where everybody starts airborne, 5 km away, with some AI bombers for some to cover, and others to protect.

 

You can place 2 spawn points with airstarts, but then everyone has to waste sometime getting formed, or completely skip that part, and thing will not merge when the mission designer wants too.

 

TLDR: Coop missions are easier to make than DF missions

[Stab/JG1_Britchot]

I'm pleased to see that the estimated minimum specifications match Rise of Flight's recommended specifications, verbatim.  I was hoping for this similarity when they mentioned that they are using the same engine.  If I can run BoS at settings that are close to what I can run RoF, my squadmates and I will be very happy, indeed. I just purchased a house and trying to convince the wife that I need to upgrade my PC this winter would be similar to querying a drill sergeant about food.

[JG27_Chivas]

I never understood the angst about Coops if the sim allows AI units on servers. 

 

The only negative would be that already dead pilots could rejoin the mission, but on the positive side pilots killed at the spawn point, or had tech issues could rejoin.   Missions could be designed so that anyone killed later in the mission would have a difficult time reaching the battle area in time to be a factor in the mission.   Waiting for people to populate coops and then after a long wait being run over by some noob at the spawn point, then having to waiting for the next coop mission, drove me crazy .   The 24/7 mission oriented servers enabled coop style play without the constant waiting.  I do understand  waiting was very historic part of wars, but so was dying.   

 

I'm not sure how ROF handles multiplayer but

 

A server that squads could assign passwords to keep pilots out who are not interested in flying a designated mission should work fine.  Although those type of pilots are always good fodder for organized pilots and trains squads to deal with the fog of war that always throws wrenches in the best laid plans.  Any server can have coop-eration no matter what its called.   A dogfight server doesn't automatically assume there is no coop-eration.  The Warclouds server in IL-2, and eventually the ATAG server in COD were and will be all about coop-eration.  I'm sure BOS will provide the tools for squads and other organized groups  to enjoy coop style missions.

[BraveSirRobin]

the thing about COOPs was just their simplicity.

 

It was easy to design a mission, time it as you wanted, no testing needing, no extended briefings  etc.

 

You could launch your missions in HL with a group of 10 strangers 5 aside, they would get in read the briefing you have placed. Do what is said ( they could chose not to, but they wouldnt find anything else on the map), press fly, enjoy the mission and disconnect for a completely new mission.

 

In DF missions if you want this happening you really have to get a grip of the participants telling them when, and where to spawn.

 

If you dont believe in me, recreate this "coop" classic mission, where everybody starts airborne, 5 km away, with some AI bombers for some to cover, and others to protect.

 

You can place 2 spawn points with airstarts, but then everyone has to waste sometime getting formed, or completely skip that part, and thing will not merge when the mission designer wants too.

 

TLDR: Coop missions are easier to make than DF missions

 

Sorry, but I don't see how Coop makes it more likely that someone is going to bother to read and follow the mission briefing.

[Roast]

Regarding a possible expansion, ofcourse Korea would be very interesting

 

A Kursk expansion would be more logical, Fockers will get their later Fw190 as well as several interesting planes for both sides

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Korea would be great and I am hoping to see it right after ETO, MTO, PTO and Western Europe have been done.

[sop]

Really hope they reconsider the coop situation before launch, its the bread and butter for some online pilots.

[FuriousMeow]

I'm thinking the lack of calling it coop is what gets people. It's going to be built off RoF's MP system, and those aren't dogfight servers like Il-2. They have AI in them, the AI have missions and waypoints, there are targets and missions in the briefing.

 

The FMB, although many don't like it because it's not easy to use, is so complex because it enables far more but lacks easy to use templates.

 

RoF's MP is just that - Multiplayer, they aren't generic dogfight servers like Il-2 had. You can load in a designed mission with AI, waypoints, takeoff times, lock the servers, and start at a designated time once everyone joins. It's not locked down like Il-2's basic DF servers.

 

But it all comes down to server operators or friends of server operators designing the server mission appropriately and taking the time to learn it.

Edited August 9, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Matt]

You could launch your missions in HL with a group of 10 strangers 5 aside, they would get in read the briefing you have placed. Do what is said ( they could chose not to, but they wouldnt find anything else on the map), press fly, enjoy the mission and disconnect for a completely new mission.

You can do that with the RoF dogfight mode.

 

Spawning locations/ airfields can be locked after a few minutes, no respawn possible. Or just limit the planes. In your example, each spawning location would get 5 planes, so that you get a 5vs5 situation.

 

You could even add AI to replace human pilots, in case you don't get 10 human players, or whatever number you're looking for. This would require some tricky trigger work, but it can be done.

 

Just because its not called coop, doesn't mean that it's not possible to have coop missions.

Edited August 9, 2013 by hq_Matt

[buster_dee]

Lighting seems spot on and quite ground breaking. It really looks cold. It's an immersion factor I didn't think could be done. I'm not at all into competiting, laddering, struggling for content--all immersion killers for me--but I am convinced this team has passion for what it is doing, and that alone is worth my support.

[[JG54]Vyper]

 

 

17. How will flaps function on Bf.109? Some suggest to make the system similar to one used for I-16 in “IL-2 1946”

 

Every aircraft will have individual scheme and functionality for all mechanical systems. For instance, raising and releasing flaps will happen in real time and you’ll notice soon that LaGG’s flaps move significantly faster than Friedrich’s.

 

 

That is actual very nice to read.

[6S.Manu]

The real reason co-ops are needed is sqd training, in this a DF server can not complete...

 

If your sqd wants to practice high alt dogfighting 4 vs 4 or low level IL2 ground attacks you dont want to spend 20mins each time taking off and flying to the target or cap area, you need to be able to start or change the mission often.

 

You cant do this with a DF server.

 

Wait, now I understand the issue.

 

I'm talking about DF mission of the modded IL2, not the vanilla one!

 

In the modded FMB you can place AI, plan altitude, speed and direction of the spawned planes for each different base.

 

For example, regarding squad training with a DF mission I've build a mission on the Finland map. There are these kind of different trainings on the SAME mission:

- Skip bombing and Dive bombing on boats (spawn at 3km alt, 5 km from obj).

- Tank hunting (spawn at 2km alt, 15 km from 7 moving tank columns)

- Heavy level bombing (spawn at 7km alt, 20 km from populated airbase)

- Train attack (spawn at 3 km alt, 15 km from moving multiple trains)

- Airbase attack (spawn at 3km alt, 30 km from heavily protected german airbase)

- Heavy Bombers interception (spawn at 6km alt, 100 km from approaching 36 B17, multiple escort/defence bases for respawn)

- Ground Landing (spawn at 2km alt, 15 km from the base)

- Carrier Landing (spawn at 2km alt, 15 km from 2 MOVING carriers)

- Carrier Takeoff (spawn on 2 MOVING carriers)

 

Plus some bases at different altitudes for dogfight training (3km, 7km, 10km).

 

In this case in every base I can select every kind of aircraft with free loadout.

 

If we finish the objective then the mission can be restarted.

Edited August 9, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Uufflakke]

That is actual very nice to read.

 

Yes, I thought the same.

Unfortunately the I-16 will not be included in BoS.

 

But I think nobody seems to be interested in all this since it is only about the coop issue at the moment.

[Pupo]

Sorry, but I don't see how Coop makes it more likely that someone is going to bother to read and follow the mission briefing.

 

ITs not about bothering to read and follow, its about the way you can easely tunnel people to do waht you want them to do (as a mission disigner).

 

In cliffs of dover, trying to devolop missions, i found that it was really hard to time my missions correctly. As an example:

 

i created a rather simple interception mission. blue bombers are commign in to bomb an airfield, red as to take off and engange, blue as to cover the bombers.

 

in the old il2, this is really is simple to time. Red will spawn all at the same time, will all take off in a 2 - 3 minute interval. I can accurately time the mission so that when the bombers arrive, red team will have no more than a 500 meter advantage over the bombers. Also i can place blue fighters spawning next to the bombers already. take notice this mission takes about 10 - 15 to create in coop mode il2, and its an online time waster that i flew countless times in 1946. No one has to read a briefing, its straight forward intuitive.  

 

I created a similar mission in Clod, it envolved about 1000 lines of code, and it was a complete failure:

 

i had timers set, so people couldnt take off prior to a certain time, if they attempted to do so they were kicked off the plane. This did the job of keeping red on their place. Now, programming the blues was a nightmare. i couldnt simply create a moving spawn point next to the bombers. so maybe 1 in 6 launches, blue team was actually successful in spawning in time, and organizing themselves so they could meet with the bombers before red had shot them all down.

 

Also, i had to code a lot of stuff, for the Dead is Dead, no respawn unless you crashed on take off etc. All in all, over 100 hours to script that silly mission, that was a total failure.

 

@hq_matt

 

i honestely don't know how ROF works. never tried it that deep. I'm jsut tryign to make people understnad that CLOD DF mode does not replace il2 1946 mode at all. Coop mode brought a lot of disadvanges takes to its simplicity.

[BraveSirRobin]

You can do the same thing with DF.  Just tell everyone to spawn at the same time.  Anyone who isn't ready won't get there in time.  

[Hints]

No il2 style co ops. Seriously disappointing.

Sure  online wars was most exiting thing what keeped me playing IL2Sturmovik continuously 3 years. (

 

Game looks great , only i hope it gets life.Im not fan of Dog fight servers. Othervise looks impressive game!

[Pupo]

You can do the same thing with DF.  Just tell everyone to spawn at the same time.  Anyone who isn't ready won't get there in time.  

 

oh, yea, its that simple... why didnt I think of that before?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Pupo

[BraveSirRobin]

Actually, there is nothing simple about the RoF mission builder.  That is a much bigger problem than no coops.  But, it should be relatively easy to set a window of time when the airfield is open.  If someone misses that window they are out of luck.  You can probably fill their place with AI using triggers.

[BraveSirRobin]

If they could figure out a way to allow human players to occupy AI aircraft while a mission is in progress, there would be no reason to even consider developing a Coop MP mode. 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

Actually, there is nothing simple about the RoF mission builder.  That is a much bigger problem than no coops.  But, it should be relatively easy to set a window of time when the airfield is open.  If someone misses that window they are out of luck.  You can probably fill their place with AI using triggers.

exactly, few would build the missions for a huge COOP community - as it was in classic IL2.

And i personally have build hundreds of them for the VOW onlinewarseries , that was based on handmade missions, not a missiongenerator.

[Zorin]

Yes, premium players will be able to fly the Fw190 but they never see another Fw-190s in the historical campaign.

 

So the players who choose to go premium will be able to start a historical campaign carreer with the Fw190 instead of a Bf-109, hence making it unhistorical?

[BlackSix]

So the players who choose to go premium will be able to start a historical campaign carreer with the Fw190 instead of a Bf-109, hence making it unhistorical?

 

I can't give you any new details. I can rewrite this text only:

 

All mods for premium aircraft are obtained the exactly same way as it’s designed for all other planes – they are earned in Historical campaign. Since this aircraft did not take part in the Battle of Stalingrad, it won’t be available in any regiment – only you (and possibly your AI squad mates) will be able to fly FW in campaign.

 

Basically, we chose it for the following reasons: “this plane could be there, it was capable to fight in these circumstances and combat situation, thus the FW-190 is by all means a machine of that period”. This also goes for the early La-5. And we decided to make both planes because in some ways they depict the technical progress of the BOS era and they should be interesting to so many players. BUT since we refuse to misrepresent the history, we made them only available in the Premium pre-order edition.

 

Note that both planes will be available for multiplayer at launch.

 

Do you want this?

[TheBlackPenguin]

If you start a campaign and if you have the premium edition, could you start with the standard 109 and then choose to switch to a 190? Just trying to make up a possible fictional storyline.

[Pupo]

I can't give you any new details. I can rewrite this text only:

 

 

Do you want this?

 

so to use the FW190 online with the mods you have to go throw the hsitoricla campaign in non-historical plane.... all this mod^/unlockables thing is keeping the money on the wallet for now, ..... 

[JG5_Schuck]

Co-op's are a must for any online war or squad action.

 

I do though like the idea of being able to lock the airfield after a period of time, almost turning a DF server in to a Coop. A really good idea.

 

Anyone remember sitting in HL for half an hour waiting to join a Coop server only for someone to pile-up on take off!     What fun!!

[Pupo]

Co-op's are a must for any online war or squad action.

 

I do though like the idea of being able to lock the airfield after a period of time, almost turning a DF server in to a Coop. A really good idea.

 

Anyone remember sitting in HL for half an hour waiting to join a Coop server only for someone to pile-up on take off!     What fun!!

 

 

I do, i also remember my first attempt at one of the many online wars available. I was so nervous, i  crashed on the runway, rendering it unusable for the rest of my team mates. XD XD

[FuriousMeow]

so to use the FW190 online with the mods you have to go throw the hsitoricla campaign in non-historical plane.... all this mod^/unlockables thing is keeping the money on the wallet for now, ..... 

 

No. You can purchase the 190 after the release.

[Pupo]

No. You can purchase the 190 after the release.

 

im talking about the unlocks field mods.

[LuftManu]

I think its a good idea the actual Coop Style, whit time activators to lock airfields.. Can save much time!

Edited August 9, 2013 by .-RDS-.Manu_vc

[Pudfark]

I'm very disappointed about the lack of "coops".

I've now decided to wait to purchase.  Thanks for being honest about this.

I do hope you will reconsider and make "coops" a priority.

[FuriousMeow]

im talking about the unlocks field mods.

 

That we don't know, makes no sense to jump to conclusions though.

[6S.Manu]

Just because its not called coop, doesn't mean that it's not possible to have coop missions.

 

Edited August 9, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[dburne]

That we don't know, makes no sense to jump to conclusions though.

 

Exactly.

There is still much we do not know, either because they are not ready to tell us, or perhaps they don't even know on some of these things yet. I myself just wait, and read the updates as they come out, and learn a little bit more about it each time.

[Zmaj76]

hey point to other projects and complain about how short a life is

 

What a bad sense of humour. All we said is that most of us are grownups with kids and real fulltime jobs and that we have very limited time for playing games. As usually we are more concentrated to fly with buddies in MP, thast why some of us wont have a luxury of flying hours and hours of SP campaign missions to unlock planes and content. Thats all.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Tvrdi

[Matt]

That we don't know, makes no sense to jump to conclusions though.

 

Actually, we do know it now.

 

If you want to unlock mods for the FW190, you have to fly it in the campaign.

 

So yes, if you want to use the FW190 with mods in MP (unhistorically), you have to fly the campaign (unhistorically). Nothing wrong with that, thanks at Loft for clarifying.

 

Means that i'll stick to the 109s and the other planes, until i'm fed up with those.

Edited August 9, 2013 by hq_Matt

[Warpig]

I never thought I'd want summer to end so quickly. It's getting harder to contain my excitement.

[Heywooood]

too bad we cant request our own early release, non-historically relevant to BoS airplane or I would have requested a nice, early Corsair with the birdy cage canopy....

 

harrrummph

 

nice turbulence over the term 'co-op' BtW - does it really matter what its called when you can still do the same kinds of things ?

[Sokol1]

If they could figure out a way to allow human players to occupy AI aircraft while a mission is in progress, there would be no reason to even consider developing a Coop MP mode. 

 

In CloD is possible do this - if "Switch planes" are allowed in server "Realism", you can take place of pilot, gunners, bombardier...

Seems that work within a radius of spawn point... Notice, I am not advocated the "CloD system" just highlighting what can be done!

 

Sokol1