Volkoff Posted December 22, 2013 Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) ok, next question - what about typhoon? i mean, in attached table and in some russian books write what USSR got in 1945 old typhoon from 263 Squadron RAF, so can anyone confirm this with more correct information about? plus, i hope what in russian archives, like we now have report about c-46 commando, have similar detailed report about typhoon... or with documentation for late versions no any problems? If we get a VVS add-on for the 1945 time period, we should consider the possibility of a Typhoon. I bet the Typhoon would be very popular, MK. MJ Edited December 22, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA 1
bivalov Posted December 22, 2013 Posted December 22, 2013 If we get a VVS add-on for the 1945 time period, we should consider the possibility of a Typhoon. I bet the Typhoon would be very popular, MK. MJ only in addon'45!? maybe like fw 190 now, huh? but... well... really, ok... sorry me and my haste, but i really want to know history of buy, from one article i think it's could be after visit of admiral Kharlamov, when he saw typhoon...
1CGS LukeFF Posted December 23, 2013 1CGS Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) ok, next question - what about typhoon? i mean, in attached table and in some russian books write what USSR got in 1945 old typhoon from 263 Squadron RAF, so can anyone confirm this with more correct information about? plus, i hope what in russian archives, like we now have report about c-46 commando, have similar detailed report about typhoon... or with documentation for late versions no any problems? What about it? There's no point - an example of one plane being given to the Soviets is hardly justification for adding it to an Eastern Front scenario. I really, really hope the development team avoids the "MiG-3U syndrome" of the IL2 days where extremely obscure and/or numerically insignificant planes are added to the game just for the sake of it. Edited December 23, 2013 by LukeFF
bivalov Posted December 23, 2013 Posted December 23, 2013 What about it? hmmm? you just not have answer, right? - USSR got in 1945 old typhoon from 263 Squadron RAF, so can anyone confirm this with more correct information about? sorry me and my haste, but i really want to know history of buy, There's no point - an example of one plane being given to the Soviets is hardly justification for adding it to an Eastern Front scenario. oh, you think fw 190 historically correct in BOS? absolutely no good common sense to do - new engine (bmw), new plane (fw 190) with his technology etc, because NO any fokkers during BOS... but plane in progress, instead la-5 of late series, instead yak-1 s96, instead important yak-7, instead p-40/hurri/i-16s, instead maccis, instead IARs, instead emils, instead hs-123s etc etc etc, instead REALLY useful historically correct planes for BOS... WHY? plus you forgot about berlin'45, JUST another maps for FUTURE, like ardenns for example, which much more popular in WEST community etc... and just "плох тот солдат, который не мечтает стать генералом"... I really, really hope the development team avoids the "MiG-3U syndrome" of the IL2 days where extremely obscure and/or numerically insignificant planes are added to the game just for the sake of it. here your main mistake - typhoon are very mass plane, which was even in ussr, besides meeting in berlin of allied armies... mig-3u - experimental plane... or you really not understand difference?! and why you not talk here about fw 190? well... just trying to understand what late type of typhoon - was in USSR, ie this is mean what could be good documentation on russian as with c-46... this is mean what we CAN think about another theatres with examples of plansets for fun/MONEY etc... it's mustang with allison (4 or little more planes were tested in ussr and 3 GIAP, if i'm not mistaken)... spits-9 were in PVO... etc... i just want to say what we can THINK about, and about what we want and could get... end...
Emgy Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 think, i can asked here - anyone can explain, how much different spit-5b (some late version for Kuban) and spit-9 (most likely, ussr had LF'44 with C wing mainly, although could be and E)? ie i mean which chances what after modeling of 5 we can get 9? if i'm not mistaken, main changes is - another engine, but still merlin... radiators/coolers... bulletproof glass inside... later, another keel etc, little changes including inside, and in fact we really could get 9 because it's still almost 5 with much powerful engine... Probably you will have better luck asking in the History forum. (I'm not the expert you want, but from what I recall in reading about Spitfire development, yes the early Mk IX were hastily converted Mk V, new engine with 2-stage supercharger, 4 blade prop and new auto radiators. Actually a lot of new systems to model.)
bivalov Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Probably you will have better luck asking in the History forum. (I'm not the expert you want, but from what I recall in reading about Spitfire development, yes the early Mk IX were hastily converted Mk V, new engine with 2-stage supercharger, 4 blade prop and new auto radiators. Actually a lot of new systems to model.) theoretically yes, but a bit doubted... and ok, and in fact any who read original books on english may answer, because for me just it's hard with understand all important little details... in total, after not so impressive old spits-5b by LL (with merlins 45/46), theoretically, we anyway can get some spit-9 for getting MONEY of west community and for some WF/EF future scenarios, right? like mig-3 with am-38, for example... or it's not in near future? you know, it's and just talk, and seriously in some sence..
Emgy Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Of course just talk If we get LL P-40, Spit V and Hurricane II, then we have the full allied fighter set for the October '42 battle of El Alamein. (As far as I know.) Well, the North Africa pilots had some P-40F (with Merlin engine and different cockpit from what I have seen). Anyway it's probably the fastest route to a western oriented map pack. Edited December 25, 2013 by Calvamos
bivalov Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Of course just talk If we get LL P-40, Spit V and Hurricane II, then we have the full allied fighter set for the October '42 battle of El Alamein. (As far as I know.) anyway, i think not just talk by some reasons including posts of developers, but no matter, and it's good what with these types from EF could be famous battles in africa... so, just one question - what's next, summer BOS with some these types or kuban where no hurri, almost no p-40s and only some number of beat-up spits-5, but many types of p-39s... or already mediterranean... Well, the North Africa pilots had some P-40F (with Merlin engine and different cockpit from what I have seen). Anyway it's probably the fastest route to a western oriented map pack. F good plane, i forgot but maybe and USSR had some number of 40s with merlin, and if west community not want only best/good planes=money for game - this is why i'm talked about spit-9, typhoon etc... - it's much better for historically correctness and progressive development...
79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) I thing and I hope 777 will stick to making things historical, releasing planes that actually flew in the battles they publish and don't bow to gamer pressure for the fastest and bestest plane possible. Edited December 25, 2013 by 79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer 1
Emgy Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) so, just one question - what's next, summer BOS with some these types or kuban where no hurri, almost no p-40s and only some number of beat-up spits-5, but many types of p-39s... or already mediterranean... Well, Zak has posted just two "what plane do you want" polls here: IAR-80 vs MC202 and P-40 vs Hurricane II. So, probably some 1942 themed pack, with Yak-7B too? F good plane, i forgot but maybe and USSR had some number of 40s with merlin, and if west community not want only best/good planes=money for game - this is why i'm talked about spit-9, typhoon etc... - it's much better for historically correctness and progressive development... Hm, well Spitfire IX was used in North Africa in spring 1943: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946432-spitfires-mkix-over-africa-photos-needed-please/?p=1405075 So they could be included in a North Africa campaign (or Sicily). Opponents in these campaigns would include Bf109G-6/trop and FW190A-4/5/trop. Bf109 F-4 and G-2 also fit very well in a North Africa campaign. Edited December 25, 2013 by Calvamos 1
bivalov Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 Well, Zak has posted just two "what plane do you want" polls here: IAR-80 vs MC202 and P-40 vs Hurricane II. So, probably some 1942 themed pack, with Yak-7B too? yep, looks like p-40, and IAR or macci it's our near future, but i absolutely not sure - i think like and developers - what's next, some series of yak-7/9/1b plus yak-1 96 series for ussr or... etc... and which front/theathre, although, could be Velikiye Luki with very similar planeset including fw 190 a-3 and bf 109 f-2 (not sure, with 601n or e), before kuban, for example... moreover LOFT recently confirm my and not only my thoughts about "players do choice, developers do game which based on this choice" or something like this and this is why i try to understand, now already with double effort, what's could be interesting and optimally for all world... of course, this "mindstorm" just for fun, mainly, need to release BOS, at first... Hm, well Spitfire IX was used in North Africa in spring 1943: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946432-spitfires-mkix-over-africa-photos-needed-please/?p=1405075 So they could be included in a North Africa campaign (or Sicily). Opponents in these campaigns would include Bf109G-6/trop and FW190A-4/5/trop. Bf109 F-4 and G-2 also fit very well in a North Africa campaign. great, really great finding, that's exactly what i mean! this is almost time of BOKuban'43 with late beat-up 5bs, so, why not do and spit-9 for MiT'43, EF and WF further?! just thought, like now fw 190 a-3 don't know for what, for example...
Emgy Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) P-40F performance comparison with P-39D, very early P-51 http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang//p-51-37320-chart.jpg Could be interesting addition to this game, and P-40 is really a famous plane for US simmers, should bring attention in western markets along with the Spitfires. Do you know when VVS began to operate LL Spit IX? Edit: different P-40 versions compared http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/P40s%20compared.pdf Edited December 26, 2013 by Calvamos
bivalov Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 Do you know when the VVS began to operate LL Spit IX? But anyway, to attract more western audience, I think it's a good start with P-40 (really famous plane for USAAF simmers) and Spitfire V and/or IX for the RAF fans. no, i dont know ABSOLUTELY correct facts about 9s in USSR, but i know what in 44 we had many 9s (IX LF with E wing, mainly, if i'm not mistaken) and i have hmmm information what 26 and 27 GIAPs, at leningrad front, have contacts with LW and even fw 190... and spit-9 it's much better and adequately than p-63 and even p-47, kingcobra had some fights only in mid'45, 47s most likely not had any fights... so, i think exactly 9 good choice for WC and africa in future... if we about really good planes... and of course, p-40/hurri/spit-5 it's what exactly need now, just this is almost ready (p-40 in polls, p-39 and spit-5 for Kuban), i'm talking mainly about future and have my little theory, but now cant write this on english, need to think more and better, and at first on russian... you can post here something like this info about spit-9 in africa, and further, if moderators not have objection... , it's good correction, and just use russian site about LL...
Volkoff Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) Do you know when the VVS began to operate LL Spit IX? But anyway, to attract more western audience, I think it's a good start with P-40 (really famous plane for USAAF simmers) and Spitfire V and/or IX for the RAF fans. I am starting to think that the best way to attract a Western audience is to offer more versions of the Bf 109 and FW- 190. Bf and Fw plane types seem to have quite the cult following. Personally, I would love it if my virtual squad could eventually use all of the historical rides that were used by the 10 IAP and later 69 GIAP. The historical planes used were the Mig-3, LaGG-3, Hurricane, P-40, and the P-39. I figure that it may take two or more add-ons before we see all of those machines in the next gen Il2 line up. We have a Lagg-3, the P-40 would be a really cool first lend lease plane. If we get a P-40, I hope that we get a Soviet modified version of the P-40, even if this means a reduced armament and what not. As for the Spitfires, I am not sure about when the Spitfires were introduced. MJ Edited December 26, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
Emgy Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) Mikha, if the devs announced Spitfire, P-40, P-38 or F4F, these forums would see some new cult followings to rival the resident Luftwaffe cults . There are some simmers who are not interested in an east front game, but would instantly buy a sim set in North Africa, Sicily, the Pacific... Personally I am like you, I would prefer a complete east front line-up from summer 42 to summer 43. But more sales=more planes and maps for us to play with, so... Edited December 26, 2013 by Calvamos
bivalov Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 i hope that wrote correctly and clear... Personally I am like you, I would prefer a complete east front line-up from summer 42 to summer 43. But more sales=more planes and maps for us to play with, so... exactly! and no matter that game now about EF and in near future still EF, we easy can thinking about good compromise for all peoples from UK/US/russia/germany etc = money of all world for development, but need to do this very correctly and carefully... well, about summer'42-summer'43 at East Front - in fact here need add and autumn, because it's really mass using of la-5fn and just interesting battles still with planes'43 - it's not just a dream, because now it's main line in development, plus if we have yak-1 with PF > easy can get yak-1b for stalingrad/kuban, lightweight yak-1 of 96 series and even yaks between 69 and 1xxx series... we have la-5 early > we easy can get late series and la-5 type 37 with m-82f, still one of main la-5s even during spring-summer'43... etc... all these talks about spit-5/9, p-39 etc, at first for EF and it's just talks, before need to do many things and planes... after release of game and even release of p-40/IAR (i hope exactly IAR, because plane much more important for BOS, than macci), personally i imagine for self something like: 1 - "battle of velikye luki" (almost similar planes, map now WIP, just need add 109 f-2, yak-1b etc plus here we could get and some subtypes like g-4, a-4 etc)... 2 - battles on north of russia (here we could get many LL planes, like different hurris, p-40s, p-39s, soviet and german subtypes etc, as before), and here devs can get experience with ships, moreover, LL it's and ground units... 3 - "battle of kuban" (again LL, soviet and LW types/subtypes)... 4 - and only now, or before BoK'43, sunny mediterranean theatre'42-43 with almost all needed planes!... well, something like this, it's only my opinion and just simple example of possible future...
1CGS LukeFF Posted December 27, 2013 1CGS Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) MK.Bivalov, the reason the team is adding the Fw 190 is because it's a popular choice, and because it did play a significant role on the Eastern Front. The Typhoon did not in any way, shape, or form contribute to the air war in the East. Edited December 27, 2013 by LukeFF 1
Volkoff Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Mikha, if the devs announced Spitfire, P-40, P-38 or F4F, these forums would see some new cult followings to rival the resident Luftwaffe cults . There are some simmers who are not interested in an east front game, but would instantly buy a sim set in North Africa, Sicily, the Pacific... Personally I am like you, I would prefer a complete east front line-up from summer 42 to summer 43. But more sales=more planes and maps for us to play with, so... Sure, I imagine you are right. I am really looking forward to seeing the rise of new plane cults, too. I think that plane cults add a lot of positive energy to the community. For instance, I really appreciate the enthusiasm of the BF-109 fans. They post a lot of cool BF-109 info and rare BF-109 videos. Plus, it is only a matter of time before I become a plane type cultist, myself, so i can't be too hard on the BF-109 fanatics. Given my fondness for the LaGG-3 Series 29, I suspect that I may be a future La-5 cultists, but I could just as easily turn out to be a LaGG-3 cultist, a Yak-1 cultist, a P-40 cultist, or a P-39 cultist. Only time will tell. MJ P.S. When we leave the Eastern Front, North Africa sounds interesting. Edited December 27, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
SOLIDKREATE Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 I'm not in a VVS unit but.....this Spitfire would be amazing to have in game just so I can shoot it down 1
[JG2]R7_Blackadder Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Most difficult choice. Both are well deserving, both had a long role on the show. I guess I voted for the Hawk just because it has been a short time since I saw the last Hurry in CloD 1
Nen Posted February 14, 2014 Posted February 14, 2014 P40 for me. Historic considerations apart, P39 would be really nice to have as lend and lease fighter. 37 mm, fast and manuverable, is a good counterpart for 109s and 190s, and give you a real chance to match and defeat german fighters. And because its cool of course!
Volkoff Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Most difficult choice. Both are well deserving, both had a long role on the show. I guess I voted for the Hawk just because it has been a short time since I saw the last Hurry in CloD This is how I feel, too. It would be great if both could be introduced, but I figure that even if the P-40 is made for BOS and the Hurricane isn't, that the Hurricane will be a nice lend lease plane for an early war Eastern map, since the Hurricane was one of the first, if not the first, of the lend lease planes to the Soviet Union. The Hurricane might have a better chance on an early war map, against Emils, too. I don't mean to suggest that the P-40 will have an easy time of it on this map, though. The LaGG-3 Series 29 is probably a better plane than the P-40, except in the areas of top dive speed and armor protection. Still, I think that the P-40 will be a great virtual squad ride on this map, because the P-40 is a very challenging ride that requires the use of sound tactics and great teamwork. MJ Edited February 17, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA 1
Roast Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Hmm, Hurricane or P-40, difficult choice Ah Yes, I know, I vote for P-39
wtornado Posted March 2, 2014 Posted March 2, 2014 Voted for the P-40 but I like flat spinning in a nice P-39 with a quarter tank of fuel from 12 000 feet. 1
Goanna1 Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 =KAG=Bersrk, thanks for that film clip. We must have the P-40 now. Any talk of the Hurricane is to be set aside until a similar clip can be posted... I agree
Volkoff Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) I still support the P-40 option, no matter what, but I wanted to clarify something. We are voting on the P-40 Tomahawk IIb, right? There are many cool P-40 versions and, frankly, I am not too sure how many of these versions participated at Stalingrad. I just thought that there was a good chance that at least some of the P-40s at Stalingrad were Tomahawk IIb types and that this version would also be useful for other Eastern front add-ons, taking place both before and after Stalingrad. MJ Edited April 8, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Definetly the P-40,always wanted to fly this bird on a very new level of simulation (just imagine what 6 cal.50 might be like in BoS..hmmm). Hurri is also nice (and I preferr it over the Spitfire in many ways) though as mentioned it might not be proper competition for germans, don't like the weaponry on it either. I'm confident we will see both ingame in far future as BoS develops anyway so looking forward to both of them.
BSS_Vidar Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 If you get the P-39 that was in the old IL2, I can see why folks would like to have it... But if you get a properly modeled P-39, you'll be hating virtual life. Those things were canon fodder to the Germans and Japanese. F4F pilots use to use them as bait because the Cobras were restricted below 15,000ft. No chargers for hi alt performance and no O2 bottles for the pilot. If they had the 30mm canon on board, the power plant wasn't altered to accommodate the heavier weight.. they were sluggish as hell but great for ground pounding. I voted for the P-40 V
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I love me some Hurri, but I had to go with P-40 because I can get my Hurrican fix in CloD.
Cpt_Branko Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) If you get the P-39 that was in the old IL2, I can see why folks would like to have it... But if you get a properly modeled P-39, you'll be hating virtual life. Those things were canon fodder to the Germans and Japanese. F4F pilots use to use them as bait because the Cobras were restricted below 15,000ft. No chargers for hi alt performance and no O2 bottles for the pilot. If they had the 30mm canon on board, the power plant wasn't altered to accommodate the heavier weight.. they were sluggish as hell but great for ground pounding. I voted for the P-40 Well, given that out of 5 top scoring Allied aces, 3 were almost exclusively P-39 aces, the historical record of the P-39 is not "cannon fodder". If you deduce the entirety of it's combat record from initial engagements vs Japan (where it still acquitted itself decently at low altitude), then the plane is not very good. However, later models, available in Kuban and onwards (the N/Q series) had two-stage chargers (or rather, an auxilary charger added to the engine), and providing the regiment was supplied by 95 / 100 octane lend-lease fuel was able to produce circa 1320/1450 HP on emergency power respectively. The engines used in the P-39 are the same as the engines in the P-40 (bar the P-40F which was soon discountinued), mated to a lighter and cleaner airframe - there's absolutely no reason to take the P-40 over the P-39, realistically.* However since P-39 was not there in battle of Stalingrad, P-40 is the obvious choice. *P-40F is unlikely to make a showing, btw, for east front you would be looking at Allison-powered machines (P-40E and earlier especially - doubt they got many P-40Ns which are somewhat later dated), and besides, the Merlin wasn't really some sort of magic machine transforming the P-40 into I don't know what. The Allison is more tolerant of abuse, and in altitude bands where it delivered full power it was solid. Edited June 13, 2014 by Cpt_Branko 1
Cpt_Branko Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 For the record: P-40 deliveries by model and year: 1941 - 230 Tomahawks, 15 P-40E 1942 - 17 Tomahawks, 487 P-40E, E-1, K, L 1943 - 939 P-40E-1, K, L, M, N 1944 - 446 P-40M, N I'm not seeing any P-40F deliveries at all.
Silverback Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 P-40E first P-39(400) second Hurricane II third.
Yankee_One Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, P-39 is missing for me. I would see that aircraft first.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) P-39 is missing for me. I would see that aircraft first. Also looking forward to the P-39 in future, though the P-40 makes more sense as a counterpart to the Macchi or IAR due to it's similar performance. The Cobra is no real equal to those and probably performs better as a bomber interceptor / ground attacker. Edited July 17, 2014 by [Jg26]5tuk4
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