La5 enters the fray

[Sokol1]

Original text: http://topwar.ru/37456-ahtung-ahtung-v-vozduhe-la-5.html (War propaganda ).
 

In August 1942 in the sky at Stalingrad German pilots first met with a stranger Soviet fighter. Transience of aerial combat did not allow them to consider carefully the car from a distance resembled less and less in the sky-16. It is similar to one of the best Soviet fighters of the prewar years, received among the German pilots still in Spain nickname "Rat", has led to speculation that they were faced with its new modification called "New rat." In fact, it was the first Soviet-La 5, held military tests in the 49th IAP Krasnoznamennyi 234th IAD 1st Air Army.

 

From 14 to 24 August 19 La-5 made ​​180 sorties with a touch of 130 hours in 27 air battles the regiment's pilots shot down 16 enemy aircraft, while their losses were ten cars and five pilots. To be precise, the regiment lost five fighters shot down, two did not return from a mission, four crashed, being shot down in aerial combat, one crashed due to the destruction of the main rod sleeve engine and one of the pilots August 22, 1942 rammed a German Ju 88, but it broke and his plane. Feedback from the pilots of the 49th Red IAP, LaGG-5 in combat conditions showed good results and high losses associated with underdevelopment of the material part and underutilization fighting qualities of the machine. For example, the second speed drive centrifugal blower motor included at an altitude of 3800 m, and the war had mainly at altitudes of 2000-3000 meters.

 

Escort bombers and attack aircraft as well as ground troops carried out by one group, according to the command of the regiment, was illiterate.

 

In aerial combat during climb at high speeds from the Bf 109F La5 did not come off, and at low speeds due to the greater weight LaGG-5 for the first time behind, and then compared him to climb. Cornering our fighter went into a tail Bf 109F, since the radius of the bend of the last was more. Horizontal speed and our German aircraft was the same, but in a dive La5 flew faster. Weapons, as it turned out, quite satisfied air fighters. Besides the more complicated piloting fighter because of the large weight (3300 kg) and insufficient compensators rudders compared to LaGG-3 and Yak-1 and revealed structural defects. For example, two cases marked disruption of motor and side cowls, not completely were produced spike wheel event of a leak gasoline and oil tanks of the weld seams, after 20 hours of work goes bust exhaust manifolds. A significant advantage of the LaGG-5 before the LaGG-3 and Yak-1 was to protect the front hemisphere radial air-cooled engine. Increased aircraft survivability. There were three times when in a dogfight enemy cannon fire were pierced intake and exhaust pipes of one cylinder and valve cover boxes, propeller and bent ribs cylinders. Plane in such a way safely landed on its airfield and motor restored soon.

 

In carrying out combat tasks motors worked mainly on nominal and forced mode, and sometimes last up to 10-13 minutes, while the instruction allowed no more than 5 minutes. But almost all engines operating normally. In its conclusions guide the Air Force Institute Air Force Chief Engineer AK Repin noted:

"First experience in operating the motors M-82 in combat on fighters, is showing satisfactory results. Flight and maintenance personnel give a positive assessment of PAH-5 aircraft with M-82 as for the reliability of the engine, and the care and maintenance of the engine on the ground ...

 

 

Since the debut of La-5 pilots fall of 1942 5th Guards IAP in a letter aircraft manufacturers factory number 21 reported:
 

"Our Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment fighting against the fascist vultures on the aircraft type La-5, issued by your plant. Guard pilots are satisfied with your aircraft and warmly thank for their hard work. In aerial combat with enemy aircraft La-5 showed an exceptionally good side. The machine is easy to pilot, resistant and hardy. Notorious "Messerschmitt" all modifications in open battle with us come. Can report to you that your aircraft pilots, guards our regiment just a month shot down 47 enemy aircraft without losing any of his. "

A good example of the use of fighter La-5 can serve as combat experience 13th and 437 th Fighter Wing 201st hell, acting at Stalingrad. This experience is summarized PM Strikers in the book "On the main directions." Already in November 1942, the German air force sharply increased combat work. In this regard, the commander of the 8th VA entered into battle 2nd Mixed Air Corps, which also included the 201st hell. One day, covering crossing of the Volga, two pairs of La-5, led by Captain II Ten employees, met 12 bombers Ju 88, covered by the Six Bf 109. In pairs, Soviet pilots upset the order of battle of the Germans shot down three and damaged two cars. It seemed that the battle is over, but at this time the crossing yet caught nine twin-engine Bf 110s and four Bf 109. In these battles were missing six enemy aircraft, and three of them fell on Tennikova one Bf 110 brave pilots destroyed ramming attack at Thus he remained alive.


Twenty-fourth of November eight La-5 13th IAP headed Lyshkovym, covering the Il-2, fighting first with four, and then with 12 Bf 109. They destroyed five enemy aircraft without losing any of their own.

Two days later, the four La-5, performing a similar task, destroyed three Bf 109 and lost only one of their own fighter, made ​​an emergency landing.

Equally effectively operated pilots and 437 IAP.  First of December, eight La-5, led by Captain VN Orlov, in a dogfight with 12 enemy fighters over the airfield Gumrak hit five aircrafts. On the same day the four La-5 under the command of Lieutenant IV Novozhilova cleared the stormtroopers for their upcoming action area and five minutes shot down five enemy aircraft.

By plane La-5 in 1943 opened the battle through IN Kozhedub and by aircraft , given to him by the kolkhoz Konev, brought the number of wins to 45. Whether it is evidence of the high training of pilots and high performance of La-5! "air battles" in the Air Force Institute between La-5F and Bf 109G-2 and G- 4 showed that the former has the advantage of climb and bend radius of up to a height of 6000 m, entering the tail of the Germans in three or four bend. Not inferior to La-5F "sershmittam-month" and in the battles on the verticals, but here the advantage to an altitude of 3,000 m on the side of the more experienced and proactive pilot. No worse than was the case in the battle with FW 190A-4 and A-5. La-5F here and could fend for themselves. In 1942, the plant produced 21 number of La-5 with emergency discharge lamp type LaGG-3, and in February of the same year - La-5F with cut fuselage fairing (it provided the necessary review rear hemisphere), and with front and rear bulletproof. Frontline pilots latest innovation liked it, but the transition to a fully manual lantern plant is scheduled for June. Air Force is not satisfied, and the head of the Air Force General Alexeyev orders NCAP asked to accelerate the solution of this issue and begin to take the modified La-5F in mass quantities in April. autumn 1942, the assembly line of the Gorky aircraft plant rolled th and 21 November presented on state tests La-5 with M-82F. Noteworthy its type designation "39"; all previous machines La-5 and La-5F left the factory as a type of "37." The new aircraft was a lightweight fighter trehbakovym reduced fairing....

[Gambit21]

Flying the La5 for me, even against the AI 109's is a challenge, requiring discipline, patience, and a willingness to disengage.

I'm not sure how true to life this is, but that's what I'm finding so far. Reminds me of flying a Wildcat against Zekes, except without the

far superior dive capability.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I always take the claims of VVS pilots with a 1ton sack of salt. They have claimed FiAF shot down so many times that we should not have a single plane even today or foreseeable future   And got rewards and medals for it as well. Not belittling the La-5, was a plane with potential and was refined to be a very capable fighter. Early models suffered from the shaking sight, which also was very rudimentary, complex engine management, short spark plug life, popping cylinders if 220-240'C was reached, short endurance of 40min etc. So far from the "za stalinu, smert fascistem" ueber plane

 

 Hard to compare anecdotal evidence of the plane being superior or not, as German pilots also said they could turn with Yak's, except Yak-3, and win in Bf109F and G. Lipfert said he caught La-5's in level flight and was never outturned by them. Same applies to Finns, many aces said not a single VVS plane could stay with the Bf109 in a spiral climb and we used de-rated G-2's and later G-6's. So who to believe? 

[303_Kwiatek]

For many years i was feded by Russian propaganda.  Now i know better what to belive

[jaydee]

Original text: http://topwar.ru/37456-ahtung-ahtung-v-vozduhe-la-5.html (War propaganda ).

 

Very interesting post Sokol....I came from Il2 "flyin the La5 FN" expecting Bos La 5 to be the same...The more I fly BOS La 5,the more I like it.

Unlike IL2 with La5"s, huge(turning and climbing) advantages, In Bos, if the La5 is flown like  a 109 is flown,it can out perform a 109...just my 2cents worth ~S~

[LukeFF]

As I've already written elsewhere in the latest development update:

 

Based on experience gained during combat, the pilots of the 27th Fighter Air Regiment, 287th Fighter Air Division, concluded that their fighters were inferior to Bf 109F-4s and especially, 'G-2s in speed and vertical maneuverability. They reported: 'We have to engage only in defensive combat actions. The enemy is superior in altitude and, therefore, has a more favorable position from which to attack.'

[Cybermat47]

As I've already written elsewhere in the latest development update:

So I guess the La-5 VS 109 situation is basically the same as the Spitfire VS 109?

[ShamrockOneFive]

S!

 

 I always take the claims of VVS pilots with a 1ton sack of salt. They have claimed FiAF shot down so many times that we should not have a single plane even today or foreseeable future   And got rewards and medals for it as well. Not belittling the La-5, was a plane with potential and was refined to be a very capable fighter. Early models suffered from the shaking sight, which also was very rudimentary, complex engine management, short spark plug life, popping cylinders if 220-240'C was reached, short endurance of 40min etc. So far from the "za stalinu, smert fascistem" ueber plane

 

 Hard to compare anecdotal evidence of the plane being superior or not, as German pilots also said they could turn with Yak's, except Yak-3, and win in Bf109F and G. Lipfert said he caught La-5's in level flight and was never outturned by them. Same applies to Finns, many aces said not a single VVS plane could stay with the Bf109 in a spiral climb and we used de-rated G-2's and later G-6's. So who to believe? 

Having read what I've read about the Finnish pilots... I would expect them to get nearly 100% of the capability of a derated Bf109 while their average Russian counterparts might only get 75% out of their mounts. The FiAF acquitted themselves well as a very small professional air force.

 

I think this speaks better to the issue of not taking combat reports too seriously in terms of outright potential of the aircraft. Combat reports are interesting and useful but more raw flight testing data is the thing that should really be useful for sorting out how an aircraft behaves.

[Gambit21]

 In Bos, if the La5 is flown like  a 109 is flown,it can out perform a 109...just my 2cents worth ~S~

Can you expand on that?

A 109 can be flown any way you want, Tnb or BnZ, or both. 

So "flown like a 109" in this case doesn't make much sense IMO.

[Finkeren]

 In Bos, if the La5 is flown like  a 109 is flown,it can out perform a 109...just my 2cents worth ~S~

 

If the 2 pilots are of similar skill, I really can't see the La-5 outperforming the 109 in anything other than level top speed at low altitude. The 109 F4 and especially the G2 climb like rocket powered Colobus Monkeys and perform extremely well above 3000m. The La-5 might outturn the 109 handily for a few seconds, but will waste any energy advantage, he might have had.

 

The La-5 is magnificently fun to fly and quite capable, if you know how to handle the engine and how to take advantage of your powerful armament, but it is by no means a superior fighter to the 109.  

[jaydee]

Can you expand on that?

A 109 can be flown any way you want, Tnb or BnZ, or both. 

So "flown like a 109" in this case doesn't make much sense IMO.

If you say the 109 could "Turn'",INMHO you haven't got a clue what youre talking about. The 109 was a High energy Fighter...And if you don't believe me do some Googling !

Maybe you have spent too much time(in your 109) attacking planes on takeoff.

Is that "Expanding" enough for you ?

[Finkeren]

No need to get combattive jaydee.

 

Of course the Bf 109 was a high performance fighter with excellent top speed at altitude and close to unrivaled climb rate.

 

But to say, that the 109 couldn't turn or do other tight maneuvers is incorrect. The 109 F especially had great turn performance and handled its very best at slow speeds. Why do you think it had Automatic slats if not to secure good handling in slow turn fights?

 

Sure, some fighters were definately better turners. Most versions of the Spitfire and Yakolev fighters, which were some of its main adversaries, beat it in both initial and sustained turn rate, but the Bf 109 was a solid turner and superior to most of its opponents.

 

That was the real strength of the Bf 109: It was versatile in the ways it could fight, where many other fighters were kind of a one-trick-pony.

[FlatSpinMan]

As Finkeren put it, "No need to get combative".

Those words should be burned into the monitor of every internet-capable device in the world.

[Gambit21]

If you say the 109 could "Turn'",INMHO you haven't got a clue what youre talking about. The 109 was a High energy Fighter...And if you don't believe me do some Googling !

Maybe you have spent too much time(in your 109) attacking planes on takeoff.

Is that "Expanding" enough for you ?

 

Bad day?

The 109 could turn just fine - no Google needed.

Books are your friend.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Gambit21

[Cybermat47]

"No need to get combative".

Those words should be burned into the monitor of every internet-capable device in the world.

Post of the year!

[Gambit21]

As Finkeren put it, "No need to get combative".

Those words should be burned into the monitor of every internet-capable device in the world.

Aye...as well as...

"Don't EVER type "U" for "YOU" and don't ever type the word "cause" instead of "Because"

[WoL-Ritterzero]

I wonder what kind of other versions of both the 109 and La5 we might see. I am by no means an expert on these matters, but from what I understand the E series 109s had slightly better turning characteristics than the later 109s, but had inferior engines and weapons.

 

I don't know if they fit in with the Stalingrad timeline, but it would be interesting to have them purely for variation.

[wastel]

If i remember right, the 109F had a better turning performance than the 109E.

The new wing design with the round wing ends helped a lot ,  e.g. in decreasing the

induced drag.

And of coure the more powerfull engine helped too.

[Finkeren]

Other than slightly better structural strength (mainly the tail unit) I don't think the Bf 109 E had any real advantage over the F-model. The Emil was not totally inferior though, it had had almost exactly as good climb performance with a weaker engine owing to the lower wing loading.