F/A-18 Vs MiG-29

[MiloMorai]

 

This is the 1st video. Others are in the sidebar.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

That was interesting, thank you.

 

I was with VFC-13 (VFC-12's west coast counterpart), operating the F-5 simulating the MiG-21.

[FlatSpinMan]

No?! Can you feel my envy rays zapping you?

We have a FA18 pilot here. Isn't there a German forum member with time in the MiG29? MiGCap, perhaps?

[Sternjaeger]

We even have an F-4 and F-14 pilots here :-)

[FlatSpinMan]

It's great isn't it? We must force them to tell us stories.

[DD_bongodriver]

We even have an F-4 and F-14 pilots here :-)

 

And at least 1 guy with actual P-51 time.

[Sternjaeger]

And at least 1 guy with actual P-51 time.

 

I think there's two of those, didn't the chap the flew the Yak-9 also ride the Pony? 

 

Btw back on the MiG-29 topic, have you guys ever wondered what it feels like to be at the wrong end of a MiG-29?

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b36_1395944414

 

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=15e_1396010090

Edited April 3, 2014 by Sternjaeger

[DD_bongodriver]

Pointy jets are a bit 'meh' for me, be nice to have a go once, WWII hardware gives me a warbirdon.

 

Little bit of Flogger action at the end of video 2

Edited April 3, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[MiGCap]

No?! Can you feel my envy rays zapping you?

We have a FA18 pilot here. Isn't there a German forum member with time in the MiG29? MiGCap, perhaps?

 

 

Yes, 13 hours in the MiG-29.

 

 

Here's a pic of this fine bird I took in 1994:

 

[MiGCap]

Closer to the topic of this thread. First training with F/A-18s in 1995:

 

 

[FlatSpinMan]

Would you all agree that intense envy towards someone is sufficient reason to ban them? Seems reasonable to me.

 

Those are wonderful pics, MC. If you ever feel like telling some stories, I for one, am all ears. Ditto for any real life pilot - always some interesting experiences to be heard.

[=69.GIAP=MALYSH]

very cool, migcap! And great vid!
We (69.giap) are very privileged to have had some training from a retired F16 T.O, Conan. It's a huge kick to see them talking about ideas that we've been exposed to a little bit. From the OODA loop to the four problems of BFM, to basic ACM and ACT like targeting and sorting groups, to the NATO brevity code. The thing that surprised me is that the F18 pilots seemed to prefer a 2-circle fight at the merge. Perhaps RL pilots who have flown both, like Migcap, can clarify, but I thought the F18's fly-by-wire controls, ability to lose E, low-speed handling and high alpha would make it ideal for a 1-circle. Too risky perhaps? I guess it'd be nothing new to this particular group of German pilots, and I know nothing about the mig's instantaneous turn capabilities.

Edited April 6, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MALYSH

[MiGCap]

I am no pilot, only aircrew with the luck to fly as backseater in jets quite frequently. Also I never flew in a F/A-18. So I cannot provide sufficient answers to Your questions, sorry. All I can say is that the MiG-29 is a real high performer in close dogfight. The F-15 for example bleeds its energy in turns faster than the MiG.

[=69.GIAP=MALYSH]

aha. Still very cool, thanks for the reply.
In the vid, there's a section where the instructor Bongo debriefs his engagement against the 2-seater mig. In both of their fights, they went 2-circle. A 2-circle fight is where both pilots turn into each other, trying to best use their turning room to lead turn the opponent. Give or take some vertical, it usually develops into a (turn)rate fight. A 1-circle fight is much more dynamic, it happens when a fighter turns away from this opponent at the merge, turning into his enemy's turn circle instead. The turning room is squandered, so against a plane of similar performance it's tricky to pull off, but its advantage is that the fight becomes over turn radius, not turn rate. It's also a very aggressive, very dynamic fight (and scary) which usually develops with a lot of vertical (often out of plane). So the 1-circle favours planes with high instantaneous turn rates, ability to lose E quickly, and good low-speed/high-alpha handling. The 109 can do a wicked 1-circle (or it could in il2). On paper, the F/A-18 would be quite good at it.

Anyway, after a bit of reading, it's possible that the mig's head's up display coupled with the archer missile is why F-18 pilots tend to stay 2-circle, and the F-18's high alpha handling is why migs might stay 2-circle. Too much of a stalemate, perhaps. Just a guess, I don't know much about missile combat.

For all I know, the pilot who departed the flight envelope may have tried something...