Contact Spotting

[6S.Manu]

*

My fault. 

In my taking "focusing" as the whole set of abilities of the eye to spot (also by peripheral vision), track and finally focus on an object. Now I understand that you mean only the last part.

I'm aware of the other great issues, and I'm Crusader about that since so much time... 

 

Note that this is only a problem if we can at some point see a greater part of the sky than we could in reality (about 180 x120 degrees plus eye movement) with equal resolution and framerate.

Here I disagree. We could spot an contact at 10km because of many variables BUT only in a very narrow area (see the picture above). 

Edited December 10, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Tomsk]

Here I disagree. We could spot an contact at 10km because of many variables BUT only in a very narrow area (see the picture above). 

 

So I think what the picture you posted is trying to depict is that people only have very good vision if they are looking directly at something. People do not see nearly as well in their peripheral vision.

 

So my key response would be that what you suggest is not a serious factor for smart scaling ... because smart scaling is only applied to objects that are quite distant. Smart scaling works to keep very small objects from disappearing when they should still be visible. It doesn't uniformly make everything bigger to make things easier to spot.

 

So ... here is an updated image with various different contacts drawn on:

 

[AndyHill]

Basically for me the goal is to have the ability to spot planes in the widest zoom comparable to what you have when you zoom to a level that offers realistic angular size / resolution. The dot system in '46 does a pretty good job at ranges, but it has issues at medium distances where planes are actually harder to spot than when they are further away. The scaling system sounds like an awful idea at first, but I've heard lots of good things about it and I guess it depends on how you apply it, so it would be very interesting to try it out.

[BeastyBaiter]

Honestly I think everyone is over thinking this. The problem is simply that planes are too hard to spot at longer ranges. I think everyone agrees on this. The reason they are hard to spot seems to be because the plane beyond 2-3km (depending on angle) is displayed as a nearly white single pixel. Given the brightness of the ground, sky and horizon haze, it makes them largely invisible. The solution is to darken said dot at greater ranges. Not the giant black dots seen in some other games, but something that's visible to around 6-7km regardless of zoom and reasonably subtle too. I'm thinking a medium grey color and just 1-4 pixels.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Wish we'd get some dev input on this.

 

Surely they must be working on this already.

[Sokol1]

We you guys want see contacts at 10-15Km? Will be slaughtered anyway, will only suffer in advance.

 

 

I don't want to be flying in  an alphabet soup like this

 

The "funny" thing in these dot labels is why is need show what plane type and which squadron the plane is ...

 

Distance and color for enemy and color and names for friendly are a good compromise (IMO).

 

Sokol1

[HagarTheHorrible]

Here's my take on recent discussion.

 

There shouldn't be any difference spotting contacts depending on FOV, zooming in to I.D certainly, but not just to see them. As for a concentrated looking in one area I could foresee a potential system where, irrespective of FOV level, pushing a button extends the view in the direction in which you are looking, the longer you hold the button the further you see and possibly I.D, within reason and only to a defined maximum. Letting go of the button or looking around takes you back to your original view distance. This might be seen as mimicking concentrating on one area of sky, of course it leaves the player open to attack the longer he holds down the button.

[6S.Manu]

Here's my take on recent discussion.

 

There shouldn't be any difference spotting contacts depending on FOV, zooming in to I.D certainly, but not just to see them. As for a concentrated looking in one area I could foresee a potential system where, irrespective of FOV level, pushing a button extends the view in the direction in which you are looking, the longer you hold the button the further you see and possibly I.D, within reason and only to a defined maximum. Letting go of the button or looking around takes you back to your original view distance. This might be seen as mimicking concentrating on one area of sky, of course it leaves the player open to attack the longer he holds down the button.

 

That's like one of my first suggestions I made during the CloD's development: pressing the key you enter in "search" mode and the sim is showing what the virtual pilot can see. Non only aircrafts, but ground vehicles too, as stationary vehicles are really difficult to spot (add the camo and it's almost impossible). In that way Stukas and IL2s need to stay in the area longer in the right area scanning for targets (IMO is far more enjoyable to our bomber friends than the typical "lets bomb those big models on that flat field").

 

The fact that a guy need "to lose" time looking at one area is going to make teamworking more useful since multiple pilots can cover more airspace. Above all if they fly in a right formation (something that's useless in the current sims). In other words, it makes the sim more realistic.

Edited December 10, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[SKG51_Joker]

Here's my take on recent discussion.

 

There shouldn't be any difference spotting contacts depending on FOV, zooming in to I.D certainly, but not just to see them. As for a concentrated looking in one area I could foresee a potential system where, irrespective of FOV level, pushing a button extends the view in the direction in which you are looking, the longer you hold the button the further you see and possibly I.D, within reason and only to a defined maximum. Letting go of the button or looking around takes you back to your original view distance. This might be seen as mimicking concentrating on one area of sky, of course it leaves the player open to attack the longer he holds down the button.

 

Thats the first promising suggestion to solve the problem. Especially combined with the remarks from Manu concerning groud attack and tactics!

[BigMotor]

I've been concentrating on the dogfight mission the last couple of days. What struck me in a really good way was the fact that I could see aircraft types from a fairly long distance. I could actually tell it was a 109 chasing a LAGG, looked very realistic.

My hats off to the developers, never experienced that long range ID in a flight sim before.

[Finkeren]

Just to add a bit of positive vibe into this thread (I'm not discounting the real issue of long distance spotting)

 

I actually really like the way aircraft are redered at close/medium range (anything below 1 km) Like in RoF it looks very realistic and makes ID'ing a plane very easy.

[FlatSpinMan]

I like the thinking, but isn't a focussed view kind of like zooming in?

I'm all for being able to see contacts and ground targets at a greater distance.

 

I agree with the comments about clearly distinguishable LODS. That's so helpful, just as it was in RoF.

[Fifi]

Using icons to check it out, it seems planes are appearing on my screen at 3 Km (not using zoom)

That's still quite close for a WW2 sim IMO...a bit more would be welcome.

[Uriah]

Give me 6km for a fighter, 10 or 12 for a bomber.  My eyes are old and my friend is Mr. Magoo.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I still have problems spotting contacts as they move above the horizon, even at quite close ranges.   I think the problem might have something to do with how the LOD's react to light.  I think at certain angles to the sun the LOD's go white (quite normal for a smooth surface reflecting the sun)  but because of the white of the horizon, or just above, instead of standing out as a shiny surface reflecting light they just disapear into it, matt white.  I think I noticed this particularly as I was chasing a 109 and it was climbing around to get on my tail, it's profile was plan form towards me, but when the wings changed colour to refect the light the aircraft just seemed to vanish.  This, of course, might be a work in progress and the changing colour of the wings reflecting light might just be before a special effect is added that makes the surfaces stand out more from the matt background. I live in eternal hope.

[OBT-Psycho]

I don't know what the state of this stuff is at the moment, but I didn't see any canopy reflection either. Maybe there is something there that can make sense for this situation. spotligh reflection might not be implemented yet.

 

it changed a lot contact spotting in CloD. It is maybe a bit overdone, or just not perfect, but man is it cool t see in a flight sim! Considering how good digital nature renders light, there could be some pretty impressive stuff coming in. 

 

It will also solve your problem of contact spotting. Turn this suddenly white spot when plane reflect the sun into a spotlight - which seems reasonable in my sense - and your good to go