New Yak

[Finkeren]

What is speed Yak1B at high alt?  I mean e.x. 6 km? ( IAS/TAS in autumn map? )

 

Just ran a quick test.

 

Autumn map, surface temp around 5^oC

 

Altitude 6000m above sea level

 

Aircraft loaded with 100% fuel and normal armament, no field mods.

 

Yak-1B: 

 

Full throttle, RPM-governor 100%, mixture 55%

 

Radiators fully open (which is waaaaaaaaay overkill and will overcool your engine at that altitude): 405km/h IAS

 

Radiators optimized (water 25% open, oli 35%): 437 km/h IAS

 

Radiators fully closed (ran for about 4 mins before overheating when starting from 75^oC on both gauges): 445 km/h IAS 

 

In all instances acceleration was painfully slow for the last 10-15 km/h don't expect to reach that in a combat situation.

 

For comparison: 

 

Bf 109F4:

 

Test done with automated radiators and prop pitch

 

Continuous mode: 446 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 466 km/h IAS

 

Emergency mode (Oil temp got very hot but didn't overheat): 480 km/h IAS

 

Conclusion: The Bf 109F4 is comfortably faster than the Yak-1B at altitude and doesn't even need to go into combat mode on the engine to run from a Yak pilot who absolutely floors it and overheats his engine. 

 

EDIT:

 

Thought I might do some of the others. Same conditions as above.

 

Bf 109G2:

 

Continuous mode: 437 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 470 km/h IAS

 

Fw 190A3:

 

Test done with MG/FF guns (120 rounds) as this was the normal armament.

 

Continuous mode: 432 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 449 km/h IAS

 

Emergency mode: 464 km/h IAS

 

Yak-1 s. 69:

 

100% throttle, 100% rpm, 45% mixture (no idea why it optimized at a different setting)

 

Fully open radiators: 399 km/h IAS

 

Optimized radiators (both 35%): 417 km/h IAS

 

Fully closed radiators: 423 km/h IAS

 

Conclusion: No 1942 German single seat fighter is threatened by any of the Yaks at high altitude as long as they have some time left on combat power.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Finkeren

[No601_Swallow]

von Tom aka Luftwhiner

 

The truth will finally out!  

 

(Can I be a Macchi Moaner? Although maybe someday we'll all be Spitgroaners...)

[LLv24_Zami]

So long as it isn' a flying tank like the other VVS crates.

 

von Tom aka Luftwhiner

Glad you came out, seems like people have been expecting you 

 

 

The truth will finally out!

 

(Can I be a Macchi Moaner? Although maybe someday we'll all be Spitgroaners...)

It will be interesting when we get Spit and other legendary allied planes in game 

[Trooper117]

Just wait for the 'P-39Whine' when that gets released... I'll be in the 'Spitgroaners' camp no doubt 

[von_Tom]

Glad you came out, seems like people have been expecting you 

 

 

I aim to please and i'd hate to disappoint anyone!

 

 

von Tom

[303_Kwiatek]

Just ran a quick test.

 

Autumn map, surface temp around 5^oC

 

Altitude 6000m above sea level

 

Aircraft loaded with 100% fuel and normal armament, no field mods.

 

Yak-1B: 

 

Full throttle, RPM-governor 100%, mixture 55%

 

Radiators fully open (which is waaaaaaaaay overkill and will overcool your engine at that altitude): 405km/h IAS

 

Radiators optimized (water 25% open, oli 35%): 437 km/h IAS

 

Radiators fully closed (ran for about 4 mins before overheating when starting from 75^oC on both gauges): 445 km/h IAS 

 

In all instances acceleration was painfully slow for the last 10-15 km/h don't expect to reach that in a combat situation.

 

For comparison: 

 

Bf 109F4:

 

Test done with automated radiators and prop pitch

 

Continuous mode: 446 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 466 km/h IAS

 

Emergency mode (Oil temp got very hot but didn't overheat): 480 km/h IAS

 

Conclusion: The Bf 109F4 is comfortably faster than the Yak-1B at altitude and doesn't even need to go into combat mode on the engine to run from a Yak pilot who absolutely floors it and overheats his engine. 

 

EDIT:

 

Thought I might do some of the others. Same conditions as above.

 

Bf 109G2:

 

Continuous mode: 437 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 470 km/h IAS

 

Fw 190A3:

 

Test done with MG/FF guns (120 rounds) as this was the normal armament.

 

Continuous mode: 432 km/h IAS

 

Combat mode: 449 km/h IAS

 

Emergency mode: 464 km/h IAS

 

Yak-1 s. 69:

 

100% throttle, 100% rpm, 45% mixture (no idea why it optimized at a different setting)

 

Fully open radiators: 399 km/h IAS

 

Optimized radiators (both 35%): 417 km/h IAS

 

Fully closed radiators: 423 km/h IAS

 

Conclusion: No 1942 German single seat fighter is threatened by any of the Yaks at high altitude as long as they have some time left on combat power.

 

Thx for test. I miss map settings ( thought that autumn got ISA tempertature - 15 Cel not 5 Cel ).

 

Conlsusion for me is not that German fighter are faster at high alts then Yaks but rather estimated how much Yak-1B ( similary to Yak-1) is overspeed at high alt.  Example at 6 km  A-3 should be faster about 100 km/h TAS (not less) then Yak-1 (69 serie) and about 80 km/h faster then Yak-1B so question is how much these historical adventage is decrased in BOS actually.

 

Now its looks that ex. A-3 in BOS is only faster about 35 kph TAS over Yak-1B at 6 km alt   instead of about 80 kph TAS  ( so its is about 50 % adventage in speed less then should be)

Edited November 16, 2016 by 303_Kwiatek

[Finkeren]

Thx for test. I miss map settings ( thought that autumn got ISA tempertature - 15 Cel not 5 cel ).

Might be I got that wrong.

[303_Kwiatek]

Low level (deck) speed looks accurate to RL data but at higher altitude there is dispersion.

 

RL data for Yak-1B ( as it is in BOS)

 

0 - 530 kph

4.1 - 590 kph

 

Comparing to BOS ( i choose 20% radiator setting to achive best speed/radiator ratio)

 

0-  ab. 530 kph ( accurate)

4.1 km - 500 kph IAS /  630 kph TAS ---------> about 40 kph too fast

6 km - 444 kph IAS/  620 kph TAS ------> should be about 560-570 kph - so about 50-60 kph too fast

Edited November 16, 2016 by 303_Kwiatek

[303_Kwiatek]

Use avaliable calculators IAS-TAS (http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html)

[Finkeren]

Use avaliable calculators IAS-TAS (http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html)

 

I used this one: http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html

 

And it produces a vastly different results from yours:

 

500 IAS at 4100m = 606 km/h

 

444 IAS at 6000m = 595 km/h

 

Still too fast, but not by that much.

[johnmw54]

Sorry for the stupid question, but what is the difference between IAS and TAS?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

First Google result: https://www.decodedscience.org/airspeed-of-an-aircraft-indicated-airspeed-ias-and-true-airspeed-tas/5035

 

In overly-simplified terms, one is the speed of wind going past the aircraft (which you need to know for the aerodynamic part of flying, and changes with air pressure, temperature, etc.) and the other is the speed at which your aircraft is moving over the ground (which you need to know for navigating).

Edited November 16, 2016 by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

[Finkeren]

First Google result: https://www.decodedscience.org/airspeed-of-an-aircraft-indicated-airspeed-ias-and-true-airspeed-tas/5035

 

In overly-simplified terms, one is the speed of wind going past the aircraft (which you need to know for the aerodynamic part of flying, and changes with air pressure, temperature, etc.) and the other is the speed at which your aircraft is moving over the ground (which you need to know for navigating).

 

Nope, that would be true air speed vs. ground speed. 

[johnmw54]

Oh, understood. Thanks for the info!

i suppose that IAS is the speed indicated on the gauges with a pitot tube, am i right?

[303_Kwiatek]

I used this one: http://www.hochwarth.com/misc/AviationCalculator.html

 

And it produces a vastly different results from yours:

 

500 IAS at 4100m = 606 km/h

 

444 IAS at 6000m = 595 km/h

 

Still too fast, but not by that much.

 

Different casue it use EAS used then IAS.

 

In these case Fw 190 EAS-TAS would case 20 kph under speed at 6 km.

 

With calculator IAS - TAS - its work ok  Fw 190 A-3 reach 650 kph at 6 km at emergency power.    464 IAS - 649 TAS

 

Still it doesnt metter so much casue the most important is relative performance difference ( if you used the same TAS calculator for all)

Edited November 16, 2016 by 303_Kwiatek

[johnmw54]

and True Air Speed is like The "orbital speed" of an object flying in the atmosphere?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Nope, that would be true air speed vs. ground speed. 

 

Ignore that then, I need some sleep.

[Finkeren]

True air speed (TAS) is the speed at which your aircraft actually moves through the surrounding air.

 

Indicated air speed (IAS) is the air speed that's shown on your air speed indicator. 

 

At sea level the two should be identical, provided the airspeed indicator is correctly calibrated. But as altitude increases and air pressure drops, the instrument measuring air speed will start showing a lower speed, than the aircraft is actually moving at through the air (because the less dense air doesn't "push" as hard on the instrument as the denser air closer to the ground. As you go higher IAS will therefore start to deviate from TAS more and more (IAS will be lower than TAS) TAS can be approximately inferred if you know the air pressure of the surrounding air.

 

While it can't be used for navigation, IAS is still useful in itself though, because as pressure drops, your wings generate less lift and therefore your stall speed (measured as TAS) becomes higher, but measured as IAS the stall speed is actually pretty much the same. So if your plane is going 300 km/h IAS at 6000m, you can more or less expect it to handle the same way as it would at 300 km/h at sea level or any other altitude. So when judging if you have enough speed to perform a certain maneuver it's better to look at IAS than TAS.

 

Ground speed, which is what Lucas was talking about, is something else entirely. It is the speed at which your plane is moving across the surface of the Earth. Ground speed is used in navigation and when calculating at which speed you'll hit the ground during landing. Ground speed is your TAS corrected for wind, and as such is changes depending on the speed and direction of the wind. If, for instance, you're flying directly into the wind blowing at 10 km/h, your ground speed will be 10km/h slower than your TAS, and if the wind is at your back your ground speed will be 10km/h faster. That's why it's always a good idea to take off and land into the wind. If the wind is blowing at 10 km/h the difference between landing into the wind as opposed to landing with the wind is 20 km/h ground speed, which means, that if you land with the wind at your back, you'll hit the ground at 20kh/h  faster than if you land into the wind, even though your TAS (and IAS) remains the same.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Finkeren

[johnmw54]

True air speed (TAS) is the speed at which your aircraft actually moves through the surrounding air.

 

Indicated air speed (IAS) is the air speed that's shown on your air speed indicator. 

 

At sea level the two should be identical, provided the airspeed indicator is correctly calibrated. But as altitude increases and air pressure drops, the instrument measuring air speed will start showing a lower speed, than the aircraft is actually moving at through the air (because the less dense air doesn't "push" as hard on the instrument as the denser air closer to the ground. As you go higher IAS will therefore start to deviate from TAS more and more (IAS will be lower than TAS) TAS can be approximately inferred if you know the air pressure of the surrounding air.

 

While it can't be used for navigation, IAS is still useful in itself though, because as pressure drops, your wings generate less lift and therefore your stall speed (measured as TAS) becomes higher, but measured as IAS the stall speed is actually pretty much the same. So if your plane is going 300 km/h IAS at 6000m, you can more or less expect it to handle the same way as it would at 300 km/h at sea level or any other altitude. So when judging if you have enough speed to perform a certain maneuver it's better to look at IAS than TAS.

 

Ground speed, which is what Lucas was talking about, is something else entirely. It is the speed at which your plane is moving across the surface of the Earth. Ground speed is used in navigation and when calculating at which speed you'll hit the ground during landing. Ground speed is your TAS corrected for wind, and as such is changes depending on the speed and direction of the wind. If, for instance, you're flying directly into the wind blowing at 10 km/h, your ground speed will be 10km/h slower than your TAS, and if the wind is at your back your ground speed will be 10km/h faster. That's why it's always a good idea to take off and land into the wind. If the wind is blowing at 10 km/h the difference between landing into the wind as opposed to landing with the wind is 20 km/h ground speed, which means, that if you land with the wind at your back, you'll hit the ground at 20kh/h  faster than if you land into the wind, even though your TAS (and IAS) remains the same.

 

Thank you for the time spent explaining this, always good learning something new 

[TWC_Ace]

Aa mainly VVS flier I will say Yak1b eliminated the only disadvantage Yak1 had over 109......And that could be tricky in non hidotrical server plane setups...

[303_Kwiatek]

These is old BOS issue with overspeed some planes at high alt  ( Yak-1, Lagg3 and 109F4). From all these fighters Yak-1 overspeed the most ( about 50 kph too fast) so now Yak-1B overspeed in similar way. These mean then high alt adventage which should got German fighters ( mosty Fw 190 A-3 and G-2 which got very accurate speed in BOS)  was significanlty reduced at high alt combat. 

 

Yak-1B performacne closing it to German fighters at low alts ( still it was underdog in terms of climb rate comparing to 109) but German planes still should have big adventage at alts above 4-5 km which in BOS actucally is reduced by about 50%.

 

IRL at 6 km :

 

Yak-1 (69 series) - 540 TAS kph    ( in game 580 TAS)

Fw 190 A-3 -  650 TAS kph ( WEP)   ( in game 650 TAS)

 

RL difference -   110 kph IAS   ,  BOS difference - 70 kph

 

Yak1B  at 6 km -  ab. 560-570 kph   ( in game 620 kph)

 

RL difference - 70 kph  ( in game 30 kph)

Edited November 16, 2016 by 303_Kwiatek

[Falco_Peregrinus]

These is old BOS issue with overspeed some planes at high alt  ( Yak-1, Lagg3 and 109F4). From all these fighters Yak-1 overspeed the most ( about 50 kph too fast) so now Yak-1B overspeed in similar way. These mean then high alt adventage which should got German fighters ( mosty Fw 190 A-3 and G-2 which got very accurate speed in BOS)  was significanlty reduced at high alt combat. 

 

Yak-1B performacne closing it to German fighters at low alts ( still it was underdog in terms of climb rate comparing to 109) but German planes still should have big adventage at alts above 4-5 km which in BOS actucally is reduced by about 50%.

 

IRL at 6 km :

 

Yak-1 (69 series) - 540 TAS kph    ( in game 580 TAS)

Fw 190 A-3 -  650 TAS kph ( WEP)   ( in game 650 TAS)

 

RL difference -   110 kph IAS   ,  BOS difference - 70 kph

 

Yak1B  at 6 km -  ab. 560-570 kph   ( in game 620 kph)

 

RL difference - 70 kph  ( in game 30 kph)

[Irgendjemand]

Guys. Give it up. Its all like the devs want it to be.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

So Yak 1b even more overspeeding at high alt then the normal Yak1..ok

[150GCT_Veltro]

Guys. Give it up.

 

+1

[Willy__]

Guys... "Its only emotions, nothing wrong."

[busdriver]

Well, the complaining should begin soon from the Lufty guys about this Simply Wonderful aircraft ..

 

I feel for the first time confidant in my own skills as even as a novice in the seat of this one,

 

Outstanding and thank you team

LOL...I kept putting it out of control in 1-v-1 against novice AI Bf-109s. I conclude that as a Yak-1 driver I make a pretty good plumber. [old USAF slang for having a brutally bad day at BFM]

[FuriousMeow]

So speeds are using 20% radiator? What were the actual radiator settings to get the real world test? Pretty sure most VVS planes ran full open.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

[303_Kwiatek]

So speeds are using 20% radiator? What were the actual radiator settings to get the real world test? Pretty sure most VVS planes ran full open.

What could be reason of these?

[ITAF_Cymao]

Guys. Give it up. Its all like the devs want it to be.

+1

 

 

Guys... "Its only emotions, nothing wrong."

 

+1

 

That's nothing new...

anyway many thanks to Kwiatek for his analysis.

Edited November 16, 2016 by ITAF_Cymao

[Dakpilot]

 

 

That's nothing new...

anyway many thanks to Kwiatek for his analysis.

 

What about high alt 109 F4 performance missing from analysis, just to be fair

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

What about high alt 109 F4 performance missing from analysis, just to be fair

 

It is the case yes. However, because the overperformance is really noticable at 9k and above, it has no impact on the gameplay what so ever. If they include some western front scenario, it should definitely be fixed. But the Yak for now is a way bigger factor 

[Gambit21]

Whine...whine...whine...

[Finkeren]

Whine...whine...whine...

 

The mannerisms are a bit whiny, but the fact of the matter is, that there seems to be a case of the Yaks being too fast at altitude by a non-insignificant amount. That deserves to be investigates and possibly corrected at some point.

 

In the meantime, the LW fighters still outperform the Yaks handily, so it's not really something that's too big of an issue, but like all inaccuracies it ought to be fixed at some point.

[Danziger]

The mannerisms are a bit whiny, but the fact of the matter is, that there seems to be a case of the Yaks being too fast at altitude by a non-insignificant amount. That deserves to be investigates and possibly corrected at some point.

 

In the meantime, the LW fighters still outperform the Yaks handily, so it's not really something that's too big of an issue, but like all inaccuracies it ought to be fixed at some point.

I think he is referring to the post that was before his before it was deleted. Making some complaints about Jason, Russian bias and such.

[SJ_Butcher]

Whine...whine...whine...

 

is this a game or sim?

[Gambit21]

The mannerisms are a bit whiny, but the fact of the matter is, that there seems to be a case of the Yaks being too fast at altitude by a non-insignificant amount. That deserves to be investigates and possibly corrected at some point.

 

In the meantime, the LW fighters still outperform the Yaks handily, so it's not really something that's too big of an issue, but like all inaccuracies it ought to be fixed at some point.

 

Delivery is everything.

I'm all for things getting looked into and refined.

I frankly like being the underdog.

is this a game or sim?

 

...and the price of tea in China is?

[Jade_Monkey]

is this a game or sim?

Is it a forum for grown-ups or a personal whining space (very cheap alternative to a shrink)?

 

The whining needs to stop. The inaccuracies have been reported, now give the devs some time to work on it. Some things will come faster than others. It sounds like the FW may be looked into before the A5 is released. Now just calm down and stop the unconstructive criticism.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

 

 

Seriously, keep the FM stuff to the FM section. The forum has rules, it's not for you or me to make them or decide which ones to follow.