MSFFB2

[SYN_Repent]

Hi guys, im having a problem with my MSFFB2, the stick moves (the motors push the stick) to the right whilst flying, so im constantly having to apply left pressure to keep the wings level, this is with trim and without trim, in windows the stick centres fine, no issues, on the ground the stick is centred, its when im in the air, it pushes right, and sometimes a little forward. anyone else have this issue?

 

I thought it might have been down to usb 3.0 compatibilty issues, so bought a usb 2.0 hub, no difference.

 

HELP!!

[Quax]

Is it recognized as MSFFB2 ? If not, it will be handled like a standard stick and this will swap the axis. There would be no help, as the swap of axis can´t be done manually in BoS like in DCS

[SYN_Repent]

Hi Quax, the stick gets recognised under game controllers as a 4 axis 8 button controller with hat switch, but in control panel, hardware and devies.....blah blah........it does get recognised as msffb2.

 

I dont understand about the axis being reversed, the stick works fine in every way aside from in BoS/BoM the force feedback pushes the stick to the right.

[SYN_Repent]

almost seems like the game is centering the stick different to the OS

[Quax]

The symptoms you get, are exactly the symptoms of swapped FFB axis.

 

That is the problem:

 

 

stick gets recognised under game controllers as a 4 axis 8 button controller with hat switch

 

 

I was contacting support a year ago, but the guy answering my email didn´t understand what I was talking about.

More and more MSFFB2 sticks will get inop this way. The cure would be very easy: Like in DCS the manual Swap should be possible.

 

PS:  from Sept 2014: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/10316-ms-ffb2-swapped-axis/

Edited September 21, 2016 by Quax

[SYN_Repent]

ah ok, thanks Quax, so looks like theres no solution to the problem.

[SYN_Repent]

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/19421-can-somebody-tell-me-how-invert-force-feedback-axis/

 

would this work Quax?? swapping the wiring of the motors? or am i just not thinking right?

 

or this, from the RoF forum by An.petrovich

 

Ok, please open the file: "ROF/data/input/joys.ffp" (u can use Notepad f.e.) and rewrite the line: "[microsoft]" to "[sideWinder]".

P.S. For about us - we'll fix it too in the next patch.

P.P.S. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,
Neoqb Lead Engineer 

Edited September 21, 2016 by SYN_Repent

[SYN_Repent]

well, the suggestion by An.petrovich doesnt seem to work, would changing or somehow forcing the game to detect another stick work? by editing that file or something? adding or renaming a line to 4 axes 8 button.......blah blah...........?

Edited September 21, 2016 by SYN_Repent

[SYN_Repent]

have you tried simffb quax? that has a swap axis function, i tried it, and it did swap an axis, but not the right one.........

[Quax]

I will try the simffb. Didn´t know it. But it would be so easy to fix it. RoF/BoS are swapping the axis correctly - but only if the OS tells the software, it is a FFB2.

So a little checkbox to force the sim to "Swap Axis", if the OS fails to identify, would be enough 

[KG200_Volker]

Try to disengage the stick from the sim using this programs (friend had the same problem and solved with these), also you get the chance to create profiles for your planes. The solution has some drawbacks but also pros.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/20548-vjoy-personal-joystick-curves-setup-ffb2-and-others/

 

If you try it please give us feedback for the results.

[SYN_Repent]

ill try volker, although i have already tried simffb, and it seems to change just one axis, stick stays right, but now moves backwards slightly in stead of forwards??

 

edit: i read more of the post you linked, and what your saying is to actually disable ffb in the game, and use the forced spring from simffb, thing is, i would like to feel the forces from the game.

Edited September 23, 2016 by SYN_Repent

[kissklas]

I have the Msffb2 as well and it works just fine here. I would try going into the device manager, removing the driver, unplug device, do a restart and replug the ffb2. Other than that maybe reinstall the game. It seems either Windows or the game(or both) might recognize the device as something with the axes the other way around.

 

Are you running win7-win10 btw?

[SYN_Repent]

windows 8.1, ill try what you suggested kissklas

[JG5_Schuck]

Are you sure its not an issue with 'your' MSFFB2 stick,

I have 2 (ones a back up) and they both worked straight away after plugging in,

and i can reverse the axis in game by clicking the box.

The other thing maybe, is the game modeling the torque effect from the engine, so wanting to carry out a gyroscopic turning effect depending on prop rotation.

I do have a slight effect as you mention, but you can trim it out on bombers (not on 109's though)

[Extreme_One]

Sounds to me like a hardware fault. I would test with other games to eliminate this first.

[SYN_Repent]

so do me a favour guys, start a quick mission in a la-5 or a lagg, unpause and then just turn off the auto leveller, what does your stick do at this point? mine moves to the right by about 10-15% and slightly forward.

 

i have read that others are having the same issue in war thunder with the msffb2.

 

*just to clarify, its not the control axis thats swapped, its the force feedback axis, as in elevator force is felt on aileron force, and vice versa, this is why it moves to the right, its the elevators being pushed up/down.*

Edited September 24, 2016 by SYN_Repent

[DD_Arthur]

Just tried the LaGG in a QM.  My stick moved forward slightly.  This would seem to be according to the amount of trim the plane starts off with.  No detectable shift to the right though.

 

If you turn off the force feedback and just use the default spring do the aircraft fly straight?  Is this happening in RoF btw?

[JG5_Schuck]

OK, tried a LaGG in QM as well.

Stick moved forwards only, and then slowly backwards as i trimmed the plane.

No sideways movement at all.

I tried my 'spare' stick, and this did exactly the same.

(by the way, both my sticks are the later, red light/red button versions, i don't think this should make a difference though?)

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

My is grey and its behavior is fine.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I have been getting weird behavior with my MSFFB2 (red) since my upgrade to Win10.  It is recognized correctly in the devices.  In-game all the control axis work fine but I sometimes get this this "thumping" of the FFB.  It appears if I come back from an alt-tab.  repeating this sometimes gets rid of it.  Here's where pilot superstition comes in.  I noticed that if I hold the stick off center, say lower right, when spawning in, all seems well.  Go figure.

 

It also acts up in CloD.  The FFB drops out, frequently.  Very annoying.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I have been getting weird behavior with my MSFFB2 (red) since my upgrade to Win10.  It is recognized correctly in the devices.  In-game all the control axis work fine but I sometimes get this this "thumping" of the FFB.  It appears if I come back from an alt-tab.  repeating this sometimes gets rid of it.  Here's where pilot superstition comes in.  I noticed that if I hold the stick off center, say lower right, when spawning in, all seems well.  Go figure.

 

It also acts up in CloD.  The FFB drops out, frequently.  Very annoying.

 

Know issue, hit escape then go to the settings,key mapping and click on tabs for example main coontrols,pilot head control, camera controls and then hit escape, escape - FF shuld be fine - it works 3 times out of 4.

In Clod - before you enter mp server go to quick mission where you start in ther air, then back throttle and pitch up - FF will be activated, after that go fly on mp server.

[SYN_Repent]

DD_arthur, yes without force feedback the aircraft, or rather the stick stays central, it is only when force feedback is turned on, i havent tried it in RoF as i dont have it installed right now.

 

i tried what kissklas suggested, and nothing.

 

So you guys using msffb2 in windows 8.1 and above, what does the stick get recognised as in game controllers? 4 axis 8 button stick with hat? 

[SYN_Skydance]

The MSFFB detects sounds to give the feel of FFB. It may be a sound issue

[Extreme_One]

The MSFFB detects sounds to give the feel of FFB. It may be a sound issue

lol where did you hear this? It's the first I've heard and it just doesn't sound right to me. (Sorry for all the sound related puns! )

 

Try disabling sound in-game and start a flight and I bet you'll still feel FFB.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Extreme_One

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The MSFFB detects sounds to give the feel of FFB. It may be a sound issue

Errrr what ?????

 

Buttkicker do but not FF in joy.

Edited September 24, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[SYN_Skydance]

Turning the "in game" sound won't effect the force feedback. That would only effect what you can hear.

 

The force feedback is worked out from sound algorithms that are converted into force feedback outputs.

[Extreme_One]

The force feedback is worked out from sound algorithms that are converted into force feedback outputs.

That's a quaint idea, but its just not true.

 

FFB is a Force and is calculated based on physical effect parameters and not based on sound.

 

For example, take any plane and dive from 10,000m reaching maximum dive-speed, and now try and pull the stick back. It's harder to move than when the plane is flying level. This is based on the simulation of the movement of air over the control surfaces and has nothing to do with any sound algorithms.

 

_{PS, the above experiment will only work with a true Force Feeback stick like the MSFFB2 and the G940 and not a so-called rumble stick with a spring, like the Saitek Cyborg Force 3D.}

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Know issue, hit escape then go to the settings,key mapping and click on tabs for example main coontrols,pilot head control, camera controls and then hit escape, escape - FF shuld be fine - it works 3 times out of 4.

In Clod - before you enter mp server go to quick mission where you start in ther air, then back throttle and pitch up - FF will be activated, after that go fly on mp server.

 

Thanks TC, will give it a go.

[Quax]

Hi Repent, you can believe me. The guys surely want help, but they don't know the problem. I do, as I have hardware, where I have your symptoms, and other, where it works. Same FFB stick - same BoS ! It is just how I said: swapped FFB axis, because of lacking ident.

 

I have 4 sticks - all give the same result. It has nothing to do with the stick ! Win 7 and Win10 give the same result on the same hardware either. There is only one solution: manual swap of the FFB axis, like DCS is doing it.

RoF and BoS do an auto swap - otherwise everyone would have your symptoms. And this does not work, if the sim gets an "4 axis - 8 button" ident by the OS. I hope, i explained it good enough ?

Edited September 25, 2016 by Quax

[DD_Arthur]

So you guys using msffb2 in windows 8.1 and above, what does the stick get recognised as in game controllers? 4 axis 8 button stick with hat? 

 

My Win10 install recognizes it as  "Sidewinder force feedback two joystick". 

[kissklas]

My Win10 install recognizes it as "Sidewinder force feedback two joystick".

Yes, the stick should be recognized as a Msffb2. If it's not I still think you have a driver issue of some sort.

[SYN_Repent]

Quax, i do believe you, i have read lots, and tried more....no change unfortunately

[JG5_Schuck]

Well i have Windows 7,

And the stick is recognized as 'Sidewinder force feedback 2 Joystick'

Mines through a Hub, but you should see this in 'Control panel....Devices and Printers'

[SYN_Repent]

if you read above schuck, mine and quax are also detected like that in there, but its in the other game controllers window where its detected as 4 axis 8 button with hat switch.

 

i have tried everything that has been suggested, and i mean everything, plus ive tried some other things, and its still the same problem, Quax seems to be correct with this and its an issue which needs solving in the game via a axis reverse switch for the force feedback, NOT control axis, just like in DCS.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

What other game controllers window? Please paste SS.

Edited September 26, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[SYN_Repent]

right click on the icon that is shown in a post above, the icon in devices and printers for msffb2, right click and then left click game controller settings, what is your msffb2 detected as in there?

[Extreme_One]

I presume you've completely uninstalled the. MSFFB Windows Driver and reattached the device, to allow Windows to reinstall the driver?

[SYN_Repent]

yes ive done that extreme one.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

right click on the icon that is shown in a post above, the icon in devices and printers for msffb2, right click and then left click game controller settings, what is your msffb2 detected as in there?

 

Same - "SideWinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick'