FW190 VS Yak1 Duel

[E69_geramos109]

This time i win the duel but this plane feels like a brick of concrete. At 400 kph it doesnt turn and leaks incredible fast the energy.

Any advice or corrections about the combat are welcome.

 

[Dr_Molem]

Prepare to see your video used by FM defenders "look FW-190 is fine it can fight Yaks ".

Edited July 25, 2016 by Dr_Molem

[HR_Tumu]

Me parece muy buen combate. Lo empiezas con la energia necesaria y la mantienes bien  y ademas en los momentos mas delicados ( lento arriba al hacer la caida de morro ) lo tienes muy controlado el foke.

 

lastima que la primera entrada no pueda ser la definitiva.

 

Tienes la paciencia necesaria para no perder la energia e ir buscando la posicion, Tengo la sensacion de que el yak llega muy pesado arriba y no puede meterte un palancazo arriba para ganarte  las seis, o sea que bien controlado al enemigo

 

En el minuto 5 mas o menos tienes un cruce bastante peligroso... un yak al headon con un foke tiene poco que hacer, pero aunque el yak sera derribado tu podrías haber recibido también. Esto es un videojuego y a veces te cruzas con peña que no le importa jugarsela al headon.

 

Bien volado!

 

.

[Sketch]

Disclaimer:

While I'm no =FI=Rambo, Bender, or [TWB]Krupnski (the current top 3 alive pilots with over 50 kills each), I think I can hold my own. You requested suggestions and criticism of your flight, and I am only critiquing the flight as I see it. The info below is just my thoughts, and I'm sure there are better ways to handle the dogfight than I suggest. I hope I don't offend, and looking at your WoL score card, you're doing well already at a 10kill streak!

 

General Suggestions:

• Looking at your sortie, you scored an early IL2 kill before you engaged this Yak. I assume, you were in the process of climbing, but just in case, your general alt of engagement for a 190 should be 5k or higher. 
  
• You should have extended away much more often and made zooming passes at the Yak instead of trying to turn with him.
  
• While you were technically in lead pursuit when I say you were pure pursuit, you weren't leading enough. Predict where the enemy will fly, and how to set your guns up to meet the enemy as he flies through them.
  
• You have cannons, and a ton of them. The Russian planes are the ones with little ammo. Spray and pray!
  
• Don't turn horizontally with the 190, and limit your flap usage. The 190 has great visibility to the back, so just fly away and come back down on your enemy later.
  
• Easy on the controls, you have quite a few accelerated stalls in the engagement. This caused you to lose a lot of energy.
  
• Emergency power is just that, but you never used it.
  
• I don't know if you were flying with a group, but always strive to fly with someone to mask your mistakes and help cover you. 2v1, 4vs2, 50vs25 - it doesn't matter, the greater number always wins. This engagement would have been easier if you had a wingmate.
  

 

Timeline Suggestions:

• You start with alt advantage. Great job seeing the target early too.
  
• Yak notices you as you roll over to engage. He plays defensively and pushes you into a steep right turn to cause you to make a high deflection shot.
  
• From :48 to 1:28 you lose sight of the Yak, and you turn horizontally. I would have extended away and watched my six.
  
• Because you were turning, at 1:30, Yak attempts to make a climbing deflection shot, but he's too far away and you easily avoid it by climbing slightly. Then at 1:40 you make a great choice to make a left roll over as the Yak slightly extends away to the right. I believe your thought was, "He's going to be over here so I need to turn this way." Predicting where the Yak is going to be, and how to setup a shot is how you win all air battles. This is what most newer players do not do... instead they put their reticle on the enemy and keep it there. 
  
• From 1:43 to 1:55, after your left roll over, the Yak decides to pass under your belly. You dive steeply setting up a merging, and extremely difficult deflection shot, and you miss horribly (as expected). You also have an accelerated stall because of this deflection shot and lose air on your left wing. You recover, but you lost energy doing all that. I would have stayed horizontal until he nearly passed, then rolled over again making a split s. This would put your plane behind him as he dived at 1:57, and being behind him (and parallel) gives you a much easier shot.
  
• At 2:33 to 2:50, you and Yak have same alt, and he's behind you now. You extend away properly, and the Yak gives up and dives. 
  
• You then roll over at 3:11, which is good. The Yak begins a hard left turn, and you get into a lag pursuit of the Yak instead of predicting where he's going to be. It also looked like your trackIR screwed up right around then too. I hate when that happens! 
  
• At 3:19, you're in a slight left turn still in lag pursuit of the Yak, and he performs a scissors to the right and then dives. You had plenty of time to adjust right, to setup a easy deflection shot, but instead continue to the left. He spoiled your shot with that defensive move. You also had flaps down from 3:16 to 3:27, but I don't think they were necessary as it slowed you down quite a bit.
  
• At 3:36, you redeploy flaps and start turning on the horizontal again. This again slows you down, but you realize your mistake and readjust. Still, that cost you some energy.
  
• At 4:06 to 4:19, the Yak is below you with less energy, but is behind you far. You dive down to his alt but you didn't need to do this. I believe you probably felt he had the energy to get into gun range at that point. Your dive gives you speed to get even farther away, which is good, but you lost more energy doing that. I would have recommended emergency power and keep extending away to make another pass.
  
• At 4:45, as the Yak overshoots you, you make a good choice to roll over to set yourself up for an easy  rear shot. The Yak counters with a hard left turn, and again you go into pure pursuit of him. Basically, the same mistake as before, but you're in pure pursuit instead of lead pursuit. You should have predicted where he was going to be when you where in gun range and set course for that. He spoils your chance to shoot at 5:00 with that defensive move.
  
• At 5:17, the Yak extends away and you roll over to give chase. He pulls hard right, and you go into pure pursuit again. This causes you to merge at 5:31, and the Yak rakes your right wing all to hell. You never fired a shot during this head-on engagement. If he wants to head-on you, you'll nearly always win. You have so many cannon rounds, why save them?  I do not recommend head-ons though, as they're dangerous! I'm just saying that because you and the Yak's flight paths merged, you should have shot at him as he did to you.
  
• More of the same from 6 minutes on, you take a few hard deflection shots as you pure pursuit or lag pursuit. You deploy flaps because you're trying to get an angle too late on the pass. You never extend away, but you do make good use of your roll to stay behind him.
  
• At 6:57, you get frustrated (it seems) because you missed a great shot of the Yak prop hanging. So you turn hard left horizontal. Your left wing goes into an accelerated stall right away, and the Yak slowly has made your energy and height equal to yours. However, he foolishly turns hard right instead of keeping his turn. I bet he lost sight of you after the prop hang. This gives you a great chance to shoot him down at 7:12.
  
• At 7:00 to 7:12, you lead pursuit and get some shots into him as he flies into your gun fire. The cannons make short work of the Yak. 
  

Edited July 25, 2016 by Sketch

[E69_geramos109]

Thanks you Sketch for your analysis.

 

You make proper observations and dont worry, you are nor offending me. You are not in the top 3 but you are a quite good russian pilot.

 

I use to fly the 109 and i think im not bad with it but i think that i will not be a real good pilot until i mastered the 190 in a dogfight at hight speed. If I get it i will be near of invencibleness with the 109 

Im going to talk about my thought during the combat:

I Know the best way to fly the 190 is running in the horizontal. In the 109 i have no problem to climb and turn terms of the combat. I started the combat with a little altitude advantage, but with the yak at my back. I was trying to take angle climbing instead of giving him my back but the lack of climb and turn rate only gave me forced situations. I was trying to keep this alt advantage with some kind of agresiveness and making him to break. This works with less capable pilots but in this case i was lacking energy. After that I change estrategy and i make dives at horizontal to perform loops. I think it works but thanks to the yack defence i was no capable to take a lead pursuit shot because i cundt pull more the stick.

At min 5 when the yak makes the head on it was not expected. It seems like with no speed but he turns 90 degrees in one second and i was preparing the lead shot at this moment. When he turns in to me i was not able to correct the course without stalling again. At the end he gives me angle and finally i take right position to a lead shot.

 

After your comment and this combat i think i have learned something to next encounters Thanks. I use to fly the foke making splits S and barrels at hight speed but with the new flight model this is not possible and the lack of energy is too hight and is quite easy to stall at hight speed and small attack angles. Flaps are imprescindible to keep the control when you are on the top of the loop.

 

Sorry for the english wrongs

Edited July 25, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[HR_Tumu]

Me parece una gran idea lo del disclaimer:

 

Lo cierto es que casi cada vez que yo vuelo un foke ( muy pocas por desgracia ) lo meto en un stall y me la pego, de ahi que a mi me parezca que tengas controlado el foke geramos. Quiero decir que para mi no es facil mantenerlo en su "carril"

 

 

Lo cierto es que con mi mentalidad, pensaba mas en los movientos que debia hacer el yak...

 

Lo que comenta sketch sobre la preddiccion y spray es cierto, con el foke vale la pena jugarse muchos tiros a ciegas.

[E69_geramos109]

Me parece muy buen combate. Lo empiezas con la energia necesaria y la mantienes bien  y ademas en los momentos mas delicados ( lento arriba al hacer la caida de morro ) lo tienes muy controlado el foke.

 

lastima que la primera entrada no pueda ser la definitiva.

 

Tienes la paciencia necesaria para no perder la energia e ir buscando la posicion, Tengo la sensacion de que el yak llega muy pesado arriba y no puede meterte un palancazo arriba para ganarte  las seis, o sea que bien controlado al enemigo

 

En el minuto 5 mas o menos tienes un cruce bastante peligroso... un yak al headon con un foke tiene poco que hacer, pero aunque el yak sera derribado tu podrías haber recibido también. Esto es un videojuego y a veces te cruzas con peña que no le importa jugarsela al headon.

 

Bien volado!

 

.

Gracias también rasko por tu observación. Intente mantener la ventaja de altura lo que pude, a costa de dejar colgado el avión e ir forzado y que a esa altitud el motor ruso tiene un bajón al cambiar la etapa. Intente ser agresivo para hacer bajar un poco mas al yak y tener mas margen para buscar un tiro en deflexión pero el lo hacia bien y se mantenia ahi recortando lo que podia. Si extendía en horizontal acabaría poniéndose rápido a mi altura ya que el 190 no trepa demasiado.

En cuanto al head on no me lo esperaba. Estaba adelantando para buscar un disparo anticipado. El parecía muy colgado para maniobrar, pero en un momento me gira unos 90 grados y me da el frontal. Con la respuesta tan lenta del 190 apenas pude reaccionar para evitar que me diese mas disparos.

Edited July 26, 2016 by E69_geramos109

[Sketch]

Lo cierto es que con mi mentalidad, pensaba mas en los movientos que debia hacer el yak...

 

Did you want me to critique the Yak pilot in the video? The Yak pilot should have turned tail and ran home! 1v1 with a 190 that has altitude advantage? Heck no!

[Gump]

having flown "aunt esther" (my 'Sanford and sons' nickname for this plane) a bit now, I think you handled it pretty well, geramos. that plane doesn't give a lot of options to dogfight with. I think you won that fight only because of the copious amounts of wrong moves that the yak pilot made. you were lucky to find that one. once he gets a little more experience, I don't think the 190 will be so lucky.

.

but hey, im right with ya on trying to fly that brick. I love a challenge, too. but yesterday I gave up trying to glean some kind of redemptive quality from the plane. sure, it has guns, but they only seem to be able to get ground objects and bombers in front of them because they insist on pointing straight ahead. attempts to turn them in any way except for the gentlest turn result in a stall, spin, or some kind of wanky chaos. and your so right about the thing bleeding energy fast. and it takes a while to regain it..

.

190 experience 'might' bring some benefits to transfer to the 109, but it might not. the 109 allows more tactical variety, which allows a pilot to learn how to stay and fight (a term, btw, that the wwii English pilots used to describe the 190's behavior, saying the 109's would bnz and run). the 190 will teach you how to die. often. or just avoid the fight. personally, I think the 109 is better at running, too.

.

but hey, a challenge is fun. as mentioned by all common wisdom, flying in numbers helps. (but yours truly likes to just login and go for it). anyways, I think the (only) thing to do with the 190 (for dogfighting) to bring success might be to fly in pairs and learn some of the lead/wingman tactics. maybe.

[E69_DaniV]

Did you want me to critique the Yak pilot in the video? The Yak pilot should have turned tail and ran home! 1v1 with a 190 that has altitude advantage? Heck no!

 

Totally agree with you Sketch. Altitude advantage was the key on the Fw side and of course Geramos nice handling.

 

Anyway, from my humble point of view, instead of running the Yak as you said, risky remains on the area and maintains a good attidtude and has some nice defensive movements. Seems like moral was up and minds were searching for pilot next previsible movements on each side. Cleverness and psicolollycal factor shows that remain calms and cold its a big pushing factor.

 

Nice challenging fight. Nice to find and learn from good enriching analysis.

Edited July 26, 2016 by E69_DaniV

[HR_Tumu]

Salute Sketch.

 

U have reasson , more smart for a Yak maybe was turn to home and run.... but if you fly usually red u know most of times enemys come from adove ....

 

Running all the time its not funny , yak pilots have to "evaluate" enemy  threat , i think all pilots have personal tricks, this its like a dico battle ( 70`) , foke atack , yak evade, try one moviment and evaluate reaction fo foke... the dance starts!

 

If your better tricks dont work, dive and run... if u have the feel are winning some advantage, continue fight. I think yak have a positive felling, and in true have a good oportunity on headon. ( for me headon with foke its  a semikamikaze action ) but many times its the only chance.

 

 

Geramos:

 

De azul no puedo aportar mucho, de rojo algo mas. El yak lo hace bien, sobre todo porque te esquiva la primera pasada. En BoS la mayoría caemos así, en la primera pasada.

 

Luego tienes que volar a la defensiva... pero el arte esta en ser agresivo mientras te defiendes, observando vídeos de pilotos y viéndolos en acción, hace tiempo que me di cuenta que en realidad " engañan" al enemigo, se dejan querer .. cada vez un poco mas.. te arrastran, entonces cuando crees que estan medio muertos, te meten un giro en trepada, te buscan el morro por abajo, no es necesario que sea al headon, hasta 30 grados de deflexion es facil... disparan y muchas veces... aciertan! claro que no es facil.

 

Da igual el bando, es verdad que cada lado requiere una especialización, pero el concepto viene a ser el mismo,  ponerte la trampa que mejor se ajusta a su arma,

 

En el video el yak podria haber hecho movimentos un poco mejores, en el sentido de ocultarse mejor de ti para obligarte a bajar el morro o alabear si quieres tener el contacto... eso limita tus movientos, te tiene un poco atado, la visual digo, es cierto que en el video parece que la pierdes ( yo creo que no la pierdes , es cuestion de calidad de reproduccion ) . Pero lo cierto es que es siempre mas facil decir que hacer.

 

En lineas generales, como comenta gump, a mi ( que soy malo con el foke y lo considero dificil de llevar ) creo que lo mantienes en su sitio y bajo control.  Por supuesto como dicen todos y tu ya sabes, en pareja , todos los aviones multiplican su poder , pero uno con tanta potencia de fuego como un foke mas todavia,  solo has de cubrir o que te cubran , buscando cruces , con tanto poder de fuego y municion, cubres las zonas donde crees que cruzara el enemigo y casi seguro que le das algo.