anyone got a list of the LW units that flew in Moscow region during 1941?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I'm looking for a comprehensive list of the LW units that were active during 1941 and 1942 in the Smolensk-Moscow area.

 

http://www.ww2.dk/ is too much of a pain...you have to cross reference all the time.

Edited April 29, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[6./ZG26_Emil]

So far I can find that JG51 were one of the main squadrons during Typhoon/BOM and they flew F2s.

 

Anyone can contribute more to this?

[csThor]

See the PM.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

See the PM.

Thanks for the reply 

 

You are awesome!

[Juri_JS]

csThor, could you make your information public? I am interested in a LW units list too.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Im also interested on the Russian and LW units, csThor. Would you mind to make it public?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/summer.html

 

This table has 6 IAK-PVO VVS units as of July 1941.

[csThor]

Emil asked for the fighter units. Here is my reply:

 

According to BC/RS 1 and Christer Bergström's other book "Barbarossa - the Air War" the following fighter units were assigned to Luftflotte 2 for Typhoon:

 

Stab, I., II., III. and IV./JG 51 - Bf 109 F-2

I. and II./JG 52 - Bf 109 F-2

Stab, II. and III./JG 3 - Bf 109 F-2

15.(span)./JG 27 - Bf 109 E-7

 

The map area in BoM, however, is pretty much limited to the Gruppen of JG 52 (plus the subordinated spanish fighter squadron) - operational mainly in the area around Klin - as both JG 51 (except I./JG 51 which was at Dno and Staraja Russa - to the north and outside the map) and JG 3 were mostly operational over Guderian's Panzergruppe 2 which came from the south-west (south of our map). You may use parts of JG 51 between late november and early december as they were on some bases on the southern edge of our map (Yukhnov, Kaluga etc).

 

PS: III./JG 27 participated in the early stages of Typhoon, but was withdrawn on October 12 1941. Which is why I left them out.

 

As for the other unit types here's a (very) quick&dirty overview:

 

II./(Schlacht)/LG 2 - Bf 109 E-7 (ground attack)

II./SKG 210 - Bf 110 E (ground attack)

I. and II./ZG 26 - Bf 110 E (ground attack)

 

Stab, II. and III./StG 1 - Ju 87 B-2/R-2

Stab, I. and III./StG 2 - Ju 87 B-2

Stab, I., II. and III./StG 77 - Ju 87 B-2/R-2 (only temporarily)

 

Stab, I. and II./KG 3 -  Ju 88

III./KG 3 - Do-17Z (withdrawn 11/41)

II. and III./KG 4 - He 111 (only temporarily)

Stab, I., II. and III./KG 53 - He 111

Stab, I., II. and III./KG 76 - Ju 88

KGr 100 - He 111 (only temporarily)

 

Please note that many of these units operated from bases outside the map and/or were only temporarily posted to the central sector. Some of these were withdrawn to be refitted back in Germany (i.e. I./ZG 26, KGr 100) while others went back to where they had come from (most of JG 3, StG 77, III./KG 4).

[Dutchvdm]

See the PM.

 

Hi csThor,

 

Can you send me the info as well? 

 

Thank you!!

 

Grt Martijn

[csThor]

Ermm ... martijn ... see the post above you.

[Dutchvdm]

Hi csThor,

 

Ahh i see!! I missed that post.

 

Thnx!

 

Do you mind if i cross reference this with ww2.dk for airfields (This will be useful for PWCG later on)?

 

Grt M

[unreasonable]

Emil asked for the fighter units. Here is my reply:

 

 

etc

 

Kudos for taking the time to produce this - but there is one error:  II/JG3 were equipped with F4s from July onwards as described in Prien and as shown in http://www.ww2.dk/oob/statistics/se27941.htm

 

Not that it matters too much for the BoM scenario as you point out as they played little part in the battle.

[csThor]

Thx unreasonable, wasn't aware of that (as I don't have Prien's books on the timeframe).

 

Martijn

 

Do as you please, but note that even www.ww2.dk isn't 110% correct all the time and that location names are often ... well ... difficult to find these days.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Another question

 

Was the 20mm modification only in 1942 and how common was it?

[Dutchvdm]

Hi Emil,

 

Do you mean the switch from the 15 mm to the 20 mm nose cannon? I believe most 15 mm cannon's where already removed during the battle of Moscow.

 

I will try to find a source for you.

 

Grt M

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Yes I would like to know during October-November 1941 how many F2s really had the 20mm. I thought it was very few.

[csThor]

Acually the very first Bf 109 F-2 captured by the RAF - the aircraft of Hptm. Rolf Pingel of I./JG 26, captured July 10 1941 - already had the 15mm cannon replaced by the 20mm (http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1042.0). The exchange of the 15mm cannon to 20mm was trivial, a new barrel and a few parts of the breech and you have a 20mm MG 151/20. As such I think the later in 1941 it is the more likely it is for an F-2 to have been modified this way. And when JG 51 received refurbished F-2s in June/July 1942 they certainly all contained the 20mm cannon.

[Dutchvdm]

Hi csThor,

 

And when JG 51 received refurbished F-2s in June/July 1942 they certainly all contained the 20mm cannon.

 

I thought JG 51 received there F models during the summer of 1941.

 

Grt M

[csThor]

It's a bit more complicated. By spring 1942 JG 51 operated a mix of old Bf 109 F-1 along with F-2 and brand new Bf 109 F-4. In July 1942, however, the entire Geschwader had to hand over its aircraft park and received refurbished Bf 109 F-2s in exchange. It was, probably, intended to be reequipped with the Fw 190 later so the F-2s were simply seen as a stopgap measure and newer Bf 109 models were reserved for the units engaged in the big summer offensive of 1942 towards Stalingrad and the Caucasus.

Edited May 3, 2016 by csThor

[Original_Uwe]

Csthor as always a valuable resource to the community. Thank you.

Would you happen to have the VVS units and types employed in the same area/timeframe?

[csThor]

Unfortunately that is not my area of expertise.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

6 IAK in July: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/summer.html

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

For anyone interested on all things VVS, this website has most of it in terms of organisation: http://allaces.ru/sssr/struct/main.php

Use Google Translate to read through it if you need to, it pays off.

[Habu]

Thx for all that information. It would be helpfull.