FW 190

[Matt]

Does Crump actually have the game? I think not.

Probably not.

[Crump]

 

 

Russian front pilots did not give the same reputation to the FW190

 

The Jadgwaffe stationed very few FW-190A fighter types on the Russian front.  Other theaters simply had a higher priority.

 

A VVS pilot was much more likely to encounter a ground attack variant of the Focke Wulf.  

 

With the exception of a ~8 month period the Jadgwaffe had Two Gruppes (II/JG54 and III/JG54) of at most 300 A/C vs some 13,000 VVS fighters gives your VVS fighter pilot ~2% chance of ever seeing an FW-190A fighter.

[Dakpilot]

That maybe true but I am only talking about the Russian pilots that met both 109 and 190's and participated in DF's and also the VVS documents on how to deal with enemy fighters

 

I should have clarified my 'opinion'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

People are waiting for this Fw 190A-3 to climb as it should (should be fixed in the next update after years of report/claim from the community...), and to be able to use its roll rate as a combat advantage (impossible since 109s, LaGG/La-5 all roll far too well and especially at high speed), nothing else, at least for the vast majority.

 

 

lol

 

This anecdote doesn't really conflict with what Dak said. In fact, to a certain extent, it confirms it. The 190 is good and seemingly will improve, with the next update, at low and high altitudes while suffering slightly at the mid-level.

[Dr_Molem]

I should have clarified my 'opinion'

 

Yes you should.

 

This anecdote doesn't really conflict with what Dak said. In fact, to a certain extent, it confirms it. The 190 is good and seemingly will improve, with the next update, at low and high altitudes while suffering slightly at the mid-level.

 

I think you didn't understand what dakpilot said, it was the opposite (fw190 being "not as good as on western front" because of the 2000-3000m small performance loss... which is not true according to many luftwaffe pilots on eastern front).

 

As for the 190 in BOS, the data that were shown before the edit for the 190 were not representative of the current 190, you can try it yourself now if you want... afaik they used A-2 data to model the BOS A-3. I mean that after the next update, the 190 will gets a good boost at all altitudes, and not only at sea level and high alt.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

They got new data on the Fw-190 drag curve (from A-4) and made changes to the A-3 accordingly. That's all we know, it does not imply the Fw-190 will be better though.

[Dakpilot]

Yes you should.

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Doc,

 

His text seems to imply that the Fw, when operated at higher altitudes did not suffer a performance loss as it did at mid-altitudes. He doesn't speak to the lower altitudes and our Fw does not suffer down low anyway.

 

5tuka, the next update it does get some tweaks in climb rate - better above and below the mid range, lower in that zone. I think rudders, elevators and some flaps have been investigated on several aircraft but that might be my old brain mis-remembering things.

[Crump]

That maybe true but I am only talking about the Russian pilots that met both 109 and 190's and participated in DF's and also the VVS documents on how to deal with enemy fighters

 

I should have clarified my 'opinion'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

I knew what you where saying.  It is a fact the VVS did not have as high an opinion of the FW190 as a fighter as was encountered in other theaters.  I was just pointing out is also a fact that very little of the that VVS publication is based upon encountering FW-190 fighter variants.

 

Think about it.  If you are slow and heavy carrying bombs.  You do not have many options if bounced except to defensively turn.  The physics of aircraft turn performance dictates the slower aircraft will outturn the faster aircraft diving in to execute the bounce.

 

So I see exactly why the VVS formed the opinion they did and published the instructions they did in combating the FW-190.  It fits for the variants and situation they faced.

[JtD]

That maybe true but I am only talking about the Russian pilots that met both 109 and 190's and participated in DF's and also the VVS documents on how to deal with enemy fighters

 

I should have clarified my 'opinion'

Some years ago I did spend considerable time comparing Fw190 and Bf109 combat records on the Eastern front, using losses (combat and none combat) and kill claims as indicators. Overall, with the fighter units, and considering that the operational circumstances are never quite the same, the statistical difference between the two types was undetectable.

[Dr_Molem]

They got new data on the Fw-190 drag curve (from A-4) and made changes to the A-3 accordingly. That's all we know, it does not imply the Fw-190 will be better though.

 

There's also the climb rate that will be fixed (even though afaik it's not the first time we got an "Fw 190 climb rate fixed"...).

 

Doc,

 

His text seems to imply that the Fw, when operated at higher altitudes did not suffer a performance loss as it did at mid-altitudes. He doesn't speak to the lower altitudes and our Fw does not suffer down low anyway.

 

The thing is, Russian fighters (such as Yak-1, La-5,...) also have this performance loss in the 2000-3000m level. So, this was not really a problem for the 190.

 

So far i never saw any anecdote from luftwaffe eastern front pilot who said something about this performance loss as being a problem, or who talked about the 190 as being inferior to Bf 109 on eastern front because of common combat altitude... Quite the opposite actually.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It's a decent discussion but we seem to be illustrating the same points for the most part.

 

Cheers

[3./JG15_Kampf]

 

 

Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Take-off: 544 km/h Maximum ground speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Nominal: 571 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6500 m, engine mode - Nominal: 603 km/h FW190 Ground speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 530 km/h Maximum ground speed at 1200 m, engine mode - Combat: 557 km/h Maximum ground speed at 6000 m, engine mode - Combat: 618 km/

 the performance of fw190 have been edited for emergency. Anyone know tell if the rise m / s fw 190 is already in the game and will be so for the next update?

[Dr_Molem]

For the next update.

[MK_RED13]

Still Hairy banned?

[LukeFF]

Still Hairy banned?

 

Why does it matter to you?

[JtD]

Because the FM section was more interesting with him, than it is without him.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Because the FM section was more interesting with him, than it is without him.

I agree but the behavior was rather boorish and encouraged boorish behavior in a few others as well. I too want to see him back but not until both sides are satisfied the behavior will be modified. As I've said elsewhere, a particular DEV can certainly work on his presentation as well. The FM threads are informative but VERY often the message is lost in the presentation.

 

I don't want pure number debates but neither do I want a mob mentality with insults or, "he who yells loudest must be right." It should be noted; we had about a year of that before action was taken. Smaller bans, sooner, probably could have nipped it in the bud and kept everyone on track. I sincerely believe both sides believe their position would improve the sim. For that reason alone I'd like to see Hairey back. You can be passionate without being offensive.

Edited March 27, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[MK_RED13]

Focus on testing, Tester, and not on my posts, please, your posts mean nothing to me.

[LukeFF]

Focus on testing, Tester, and not on my posts, please, your posts mean nothing to me.

 

Focus on following the forum rules*, and there won't be a need to call you out.

 

*Specifically, rule #6. 

[MiloMorai]

6. It is forbidden to discuss the actions of moderators and administrators in any form on the forum. All questions are to be sent via "personal message" to the administrator/moderator.

 

Someone has a reading comprehension problem. Nowhere did RED13 question the action of the banning of Hairy by the Mods.

[ACG_pezman]

Harry was also banned for conducting that behavior in a FM post not in the FM section, which is itself against the rules. He was never banned for his behavior in the FM discussion area. I understand he was frustrated, as a lot of us are, but that is no reason to disparage anyone here on these forums (which he did habitually), and he finally disparaged the wrong person too many times. From what I can gather this isn't the first time that he and "that dev" got into it.

[Dr_Molem]

Stay on topic guys...

[BraveSirRobin]

Still Hairy banned?

 

He was banned for 30 days on Feb 28.  Do the math.

[FuriousMeow]

There's also the climb rate that will be fixed (even though afaik it's not the first time we got an "Fw 190 climb rate fixed"...).

 

Only above 6000meters. It is the first time the "climb rate" on the 190 has been "fixed."

 

The last 190 change to "performance" was a correction to drag when using ETC racks which obviously does not apply to a clean configuration.

Edited March 29, 2016 by FuriousMeow

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Only above 6000meters. It is the first time the "climb rate" on the 190 has been "fixed."

 

The last 190 change to "performance" was a correction to drag when using ETC racks which obviously does not apply to a clean configuration.

That's nonsense.

[Dr_Molem]

Only above 6000meters. It is the first time the "climb rate" on the 190 has been "fixed."

 

Heh, no ?

 

IIRC the issue was that in BoS winter the 190's climb rate was the same as in ISA, and they somehow fixed it.

[SR-F_Winger]

Heh, no ?

 

IIRC the issue was that in BoS winter the 190's climb rate was the same as in ISA, and they somehow fixed it.

They didnt. Meow is right on what they fixed. The climbrate is not fixed afaik.

Really cant wait to see what the incoming fix changes with how the FW overall performs.

 

Also i desperately hope theyll be fixing the rollrates of other planes that are, as i see it, commonly sensed as rolling to fast and thus rendering the relative rollperformance of the 190 as rubbish.

I hope my english is ok in that:P

[II./JG77_Manu*]

They didnt.

Of course they did. In early alpha the 190 was a flying brick, comparable to the current P40. There was a huge overhaul autumn 2014. It also affected the engine limitations, before that you couldn't even use 1.3ata properly, because it busted the engine. They corrected the aircraft to a let's say "flyable" condition back then, before it was plain ridiculous. I am looking forward to the coming update, should not only affect the climb rate, but also the turn rate. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[SR-F_Winger]

Of course they did. In early alpha the 190 was a flying brick, comparable to the current P40. There was a huge overhaul autumn 2014. It also affected the engine limitations, before that you couldn't even use 1.3ata properly, because it busted the engine. They corrected the aircraft to a let's say "flyable" condition back then, before it was plain ridiculous. I am looking forward to the coming update, should not only affect the climb rate, but also the turn rate. 

Ahh, yes. I forgot that. Really it was practically unflyable at the beginning. Youre right.

I hope youre right on the coming patch.

Edited March 29, 2016 by StG2_Winger

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

What? The first iteration of the 190 FM was the most manouvreble of all of them. A pure joy handling wise. Performence wise it may have been underperforming, but at least it's rollrate was actually an advantage back than (that is before high speed controll forces were patched in).

[II./JG77_Manu*]

With flying brick i meant the climbrate/acceleration/overall performance/engine limits, and not the handling.

[SR-F_Winger]

If i remember right it was stalling when you just thought about moving the stick backwards. Either that or i just got used to be gentle on it. Now stupid things like crashing in the ground in a low level chase while looking back all the time happen to me "slapsshimselfinthefaceforhismistakeyesterday":P

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Fw 190A-3 FM Update:

 

- You reach critical AoA faster than before, resulting in a almost-impossibility to maneuver, even smoothly, if you don't possess a stick extension, imho.

 

- Elevator is heavier at high speed (+700 km/h), can't say if it's correct or not but i'd not be surprise if so... The elevator authority was really questionable at these speeds.

 

- Climb rate seems to be ok now, at least in ISA:

 

 

Yo.

[MK_RED13]

Welcome back Hairy..

 

- You reach critical AoA faster than before, resulting in a almost-impossibility to maneuver, even smoothly, if you don't possess a stick extension, imho.

 

OMG.. really?

 

It is bad news..

[Beazil]

So?  If I understand right ZeHairy, it climbs closer to (your) expectations but now is more difficult to control at high speed?  Did I get that right?

 

(I took it for a brief spin offline moments ago but wasn't really paying attention- was admiring the new map)

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Hey look, Hairy was part of the release date!!

 

Welcome back dude.

[StG2_Manfred]

Fw 190A-3 FM Update:

 

- You reach critical AoA faster than before, resulting in a almost-impossibility to maneuver, even smoothly, if you don't possess a stick extension, imho.

 

- Elevator is heavier at high speed (+700 km/h), can't say if it's correct or not but i'd not be surprise if so... The elevator authority was really questionable at these speeds.

 

- Climb rate seems to be ok now, at least in ISA:

 

 

Yo.

After a first test I second your observations. The flying brick is back not nice!

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

Compare to DCS is just awfull to fly in BOS 190 very sad about it, hopefully there future improvments every fast direction change with elevator goe's in to a stall. It's flying brick....

[mb339pan]

Compare to DCS is just awfull to fly in BOS 190 very sad about it, hopefully there future improvments every fast direction change with elevator goe's in to a stall. It's flying brick....

 

like comparing an apple with a banana