One Year BoS - and still NO COOP Missions or Online War

[JG4_Nemesis]

Full Realistic COOP Missions (w/ online wars) and HyperLobby were the heart and soul of the pilots Community of IL-2 Sturmovik by Oleg Maddox.
 
Coop Mode was available from Day 1, and forged the Community together in glorious online wars, who the pilots who fought in them will never forget.
 
Why is COOP mode much more fun and much more rewarding and much more motivating than simply joining a stupid dogfight server and shoot down or crash like theres no tomorrow?
 
Well:
 
1. First of all - Community Feeling - players who were NOT joined in a mission, could chat with each other, and meet up with friends in Hyper Lobby, enter Mission rooms, before you get into the cockpit! - participate in "virtual pilots life" while on the ground - check statistics and front line, feel involved.....this important part does NOT (yet) exist with BoS or BoM!  Big no-no! 
Do you think eye candy will keep pilots flying and buying? It is MOTIVATION and FUN of compelling Coop missions and online war, and Hyper Lobby Community with real-time presence display, see who is there, meetup in Mission Rooms, real time chat and private pager messages!
2. It is a completely different level of immersion to fly a coop Mission in an online war with full realism, full-blown pilots statistics, front line, and outcome of the missions fought will change the progress or even outcome of the online war.
3. You can check the mission briefing, reserve your own personal aircraft (which only exists one time, once you take a seat in it - you got it, before any action has even started - wheres BoS makes you even lose an aircraft reservation while selecting your loadout, and when you want to hit fly - the "reserved" aircraft is gone and you're left with nothing!!!) 
4. You can check your opposition - who is there to fight with and against you in the mission you're about to fly?
5. Most importantly: you start START AT THE SAME TIME as all other pilots, noone can have a huge advantage and vulch you right as you get into the cockpit.
6. Everyone has JUST ONE LIFE, one aircraft, one load of fuel and ammo, and the necessity to achieve a mission goal and BRING YOUR AIRCRAFT HOME!!!
7. The Results of the Mission will be logged in the online war (if the Coop Mission is part of it), which makes you living a historical Pilots online career!! If you die just ONE TIME - its gone! You will start from zero! That makes dogfighting a whole different story, because you try to stay alive, return to base - or go MIA or KIA - much better feel and immersion than just joining a stupid dogfight server with tons of kamikaze pilots who couldn't care less about crashing into each other again and again and again...
8. Participating in online wars coop mission system enables a pilot to join a virtual squadron, feel like being part of something big, earn respect and honor among friends and enemies.
9. The combination of that keeps the community alive and healthy. However, just pointlessly dogfighting forever will kill any long-term motivation to fly the sim or even buy add-ons.
 
C'mon Devs! What are you thinking ignoring all this said above???
 
I mean c'mon =FB=VikS, you are today part of the devs, tell them what made you constantly fly VEF Mission after VEF mission!!
 
For those who don't know long time Pilots like VikS or me, VikS is member of the Flying Barans Squad, and flew over 635 Missions in VEF, in which he shot down more than 1358 Fighters plus 258 Bombers......and I myself, I'm former III/JG26Nemesis, today I/JG27_Nemesis, and I've flown over 584 missions in IOW, shot down over 1111 enemy Aircraft in just IOW (theses Numbers are no Typo!; however my max. streak was "just" 113 without a single KIA or MIA, dunno sure about VikS' max. Streak), and it was GREAT FUN! And after IOW, I continued Flying in the online wars IOW2, VOW, VOW2, VEF, VEF2, AW, AW2...... it was brilliant to fight in an online war if done right!
 
Do you think VikS or Nemesis would have fought endless battles, mission after mission if it were just stupid dogfight servers and their results were not recorded or even meaningful in any way, as everyone could just respawn over and over and kills / deaths / destroyed targets were not even counted???
 
It were these intense Coop Battles, one vs one, no respawn, no second chance, man vs man, aircraft vs aircraft, riding on the knife edge....when I met an enemy pilot, I knew who it was, and these battles made ace pilots like =FB=VikS earn my highest respect, cause he definitely is one of the best pilots in the world!
 
Think about it.....
 
That's the one key element missing in todays simulations, creating an environment where you really feel like being a pilot. Which were the roots of where they came from - a real career like 1991 red baron, just with real pilots, both friend and foe, around you.
 
There is no way around this in order to creating a healthy online community: Give the pilots motivation and make them meet and interact with each other while on the ground, go to war in COOP Missions without respawn......or sadly end like so many other sims that failed to capture the heart and soul of the virtual pilot.
 
Hoping to get heard by the devs (in their best interest),
 
I/JG27_Nemesis  <S>
 
Attachment: For pilots who were not as fortunate to experience this "golden age of flight sim" life, here you can see some Scenes of better days of the flight sim community:
 

 

 


 

Edited April 19, 2016 by I/JG27_Nemesis

[Hints]

I have Il2BOS, but do not play it pecause of this: No Online wars, just meaningless dogfight servers. 

 

I know only 1 squadron member who actively fly (Karaya). After online wars did not come over to newer flight sims, they lost most players I guess.

Edited January 4, 2016 by JG52Hintz

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Check through Han's replies on the Questions thread, I believe it has been stated that this will be done eventually - presumably once resources free up, which is likely at the end of BoM development.

[TP_Jacko]

I can recommend the Friday night bomber nights run by [DBS]TX_Tip. There are fighterx as well .

[AbortedMan]

All of the resources that are required to make online co-op missions (persistent and otherwise) are already available right now. HyperLobby type features were already made with the BoS launcher program someone made and posted on the forums...but HyperLobby functionality is obsolete because of the infinite mediums in which people can get together and discuss missions, etc...make a Steam group or something.

 

What you ask for in the OP is right in front of everyone, you just need the community (not the devs) to make it.

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

Man I remember those days and Forgotten Skies and Ghost Skies. The best times of my life having 90 pilots on and about 7 squadrons per side all doing different tasks on a map. Then after destroying your target having to return to base so you wont lose the plane. Man I miss those days....

[JG5_Schuck]

I remember it well.......

[ITAF_Rani]

Thanks for your post..ITAF also fought online coop war since 2003...

Great time and source of friendship among virtual pilots community..☺

[TP_Jacko]

Although there are many ways for the community to get this going the first step is to enable a coops and key features in the Game as the most logical place.

So a first step for me is need by the devs. The features would allow:

• Coop Room where more than one game can be organised and joined before the mission is launched includes a chat box but would be better to chat on voice comms and share TS channels 
• The mission must handle blue and red briefs separately so only your own brief is visible when you select your team
• Improvement for the stats to be parsed and exported to  the web, maybe more details on the stats can be included
• Dead is dead (available)

Is this such a challenge for the Devs vs the attraction for Coops to current and would be players.

Edited January 8, 2016 by TP_Jacko

[SYN_Mike77]

I really don't think the problem is with the game, as has been said above, all of the tools to do coop persistent war missions have been either given by the devs or is widely available.  Teamspeak would be so much better than  the old fashioned hyperlobby for example and is widely available.  Coop mode is in the game if you want it. We are now up to 84 on line  at a time.  There is a much more powerful mission editor (though admittedly harder to use).  All of those charts that you have so lovingly preserved were made by the community.  All of those wars and missions were created by the community.  Blaming the devs for those things not happening in 2015 seems misplaced.  In fact maybe we are seeing the first shoots poking through the ground with the Ded expert server.  No, it's not coop but the stats are there, the missions are solid and it could be made coop if the will was there.

 

The fault dear sirs does not lie with our devs but with ourselves.

 

It begs the real question, why hasn't this happened?  I'd really like to know.  I missed out on the glory days of the original IL2 but it sure sounds great.

Edited January 8, 2016 by SYN_Mike77

[Dakpilot]

Hyperlobby was created 15 years ago, surely tech and the internet has moved on a lot since then  I know "if it aint broke dont fix it" but....

 

Are there not other 'current' solutions that allow a similar concept? I am no expert in MP, simply asking

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Of course there is an online war. FNBF, is there for a long time now. It's actually pretty awesome. Not the game's fault, when you guys don't inform yourselves about what is around

[JG4_Nemesis]

So, if it was possible TODAY: How do we gather pilots and make them join a mission with separate briefings, just one plane / life each, and start all at the same time? Let stats alone, but HOW is this possible??? Please write facts we can check, I would be glad if it was possible. But if it is - why not announce it or designate it Coop? Oleg had Coop and Dogfight servers separate...

 

 

And frankly, I disagree that Teamspeak is better than HL. You cannot see 500+ pilots in one TS server. And you cannot chat PM real time without HL. And for sure you don't want ALL Pilots on one TS room. Would create chaos. It is still in 2016 the best tool I know. No stupid advertizing like with Steam, small neat program that does what it should. Jiri deserves a Virtual Pilots Hall of Fame award for it.

 

And the chat and Player tab in BoS is far from handy...

 

To claim Coops are already possible today - It's like saying, yes, apple iphone makes open source possible, you just have to root it and use unofficial hacks then you can make your online war work, isn't it?

Edited January 10, 2016 by I/JG27_Nemesis

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

 

How do we gather pilots and make them join a mission with separate briefings, just one plane / life each, and start all at the same time? Let stats alone, but HOW is this possible??? Please write facts we can check, I would be glad if it was possible. But if it is - why not announce it or designate it Coop? Oleg had Coop and Dogfight servers separate...

 

Ask Tx_Tip from DBS how he got his working. 

[FS_Fenice_1965]

So, if it was possible TODAY: How do we gather pilots and make them join a mission with separate briefings, just one plane / life each, and start all at the same time? Let stats alone, but HOW is this possible??? Please write facts we can check, I would be glad if it was possible. But if it is - why not announce it or designate it Coop? Oleg had Coop and Dogfight servers separate...And frankly, I disagree that Teamspeak is better than HL. You cannot see 500+ pilots in one TS server. And you cannot chat PM real time without HL. And for sure you don't want ALL Pilots on one TS room. Would create chaos. It is still in 2016 the best tool I know. No stupid advertizing like with Steam, small neat program that does what it should. Jiri deserves a Virtual Pilots Hall of Fame award for it.And the chat and Player tab in BoS is far from handy...To claim Coops are already possible today - It's like saying, yes, apple iphone makes open source possible, you just have to root it and use unofficial hacks then you can make your online war work, isn't it?

I generally agree. I think Nemesys means that the way coop mode is handled in the game is not as easy as it was before. With 1946 interface (and builder....) almost everyone could be promoter of that game mode.

I think that none can deny that now it is more difficult arrange coop mode or create professional working mission. Technology achievements aren't synonimous of progress, expecially if they do not come handy.

[=FB=VikS]

Well, as already noted by Lucas_From_Hell - Han wrote about coop in some prev answers - that its not that we dont think about implementing coop, but that it just another line in queue of features for the future, as we had to carefully plan our way of development due to circumstances (lack of resources, time, and the whole situation on market).

When this future will came to the realisation? Yet nobody knows at the moment.

[DD_Arthur]

Thanks for the reply VikS.  I think we all realise that we must be patient but as the game matures a lot of people are looking for something more than dogfight servers for their online experience and implementing a coop mode would be fantastic.   

[J2_Trupobaw]

All of the resources that are required to make online co-op missions (persistent and otherwise) are already available right now. HyperLobby type features were already made with the BoS launcher program someone made and posted on the forums...but HyperLobby functionality is obsolete because of the infinite mediums in which people can get together and discuss missions, etc...make a Steam group or something.

 

What you ask for in the OP is right in front of everyone, you just need the community (not the devs) to make it.

 

 

I really don't think the problem is with the game, as has been said above, all of the tools to do coop persistent war missions have been either given by the devs or is widely available.  Teamspeak would be so much better than  the old fashioned hyperlobby for example and is widely available.  Coop mode is in the game if you want it. We are now up to 84 on line  at a time.  There is a much more powerful mission editor (though admittedly harder to use).  All of those charts that you have so lovingly preserved were made by the community.  All of those wars and missions were created by the community.  Blaming the devs for those things not happening in 2015 seems misplaced.  In fact maybe we are seeing the first shoots poking through the ground with the Ded expert server.  No, it's not coop but the stats are there, the missions are solid and it could be made coop if the will was there.

 

The fault dear sirs does not lie with our devs but with ourselves.

 

 

 

This and this. Features that the original post describes looks not unlike tournaments and cyclic events in RoF (same technology!), like Bloody April or Flanders in Flames or smaller/closed tournaments, with exception with hyperlobby (there are forums and TS instead). Set teams, chain of command, division of tasks and responsibilities between flights (often taken over by virtual squadrons), dead is dead, mission results affecting the next missions, central statistics, virtual lives reset after death or capture, cementing of community as everybody who is somebody shows up... It's all there, in some form. And its all done by community. 

 

 

 

So, if it was possible TODAY: How do we gather pilots and make them join a mission with separate briefings, just one plane / life each, and start all at the same time? Let stats alone, but HOW is this possible??? Please write facts we can check, I would be glad if it was possible. But if it is - why not announce it or designate it Coop? Oleg had Coop and Dogfight servers separate...

 

 

 

Probably depends on how often you want the missions to start (weekly, daily?), but what is done in ROF (and can be done with BoS ) is.

 

-Get a team of organisers including map makers, like a virtual squadron. 

-Find a catchy theme (Operation Uranus, Operation Wintergewitter) to attract players and show how serious and historical your event is.

-Make the rules (what the objectives in missions are and how they affect the war). Make first mission (or few). A generic map with abundance of objectives works very well for "phase" of conflict.

- Announce on this very forum (and steam BoS forum) that you're starting the campaign/event. Set up the page and forum to handle people and squadrons signing up, explain patiently that everybody can't fly as Luftwaffe to people you've assigned to Allies to balance teams. Let them appoint team leaders for themselves or appoint team leader if they can't agree.

-Set the mission, make respawn delay upon death longer than mission length to enforce DiD, make number of planes in mission limited so they don't respawn, ever.

-On the day the mission happens contact commanders of both sides and let them know what their objectives for today are (today you must destroy the bridge that yesterday was just part of decorations). Let them know what enemy objectives (or their own critical targets) are, or don't if you like fog of war.

-Let the team leaders split their pilots into teams and brief them on TS. It's their problem now.

-Make the server passworded and give password to team leaders just prior to mission starting.

-Let the mission go, use mission itself and a server logs parser like Vanders stats page to keep track of objectives and player stats.

-Adjust next mission for results of previous one. Or do it every time a "phase" ends.

-Check if users had abused the rules (took another plane after losing previous one and living, etc), ban them from your server and remove from tournament.

-goto 6)

 

Given the number of prominent RoF players now in this community who must have participated in events like these, I'm surprised there is no online Battle of Stalingrad yet, now nearing the Operation Koltso and awaiting relaunch with summer map and tanks.

 

Check out how these guys are rolling... or grab the F2P RoF and sign in for closer look

 

http://forum.jg1.org/forum/14-flanders-in-flames-online-war/

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Trupobaw

[JG4_Nemesis]

I have Il2BOS, but do not play it pecause of this: No Online wars, just meaningless dogfight servers. 

 

I know only 1 squadron member who actively fly (Karaya). After online wars did not come over to newer flight sims, they lost most players I guess.

 

Let me change that sentence to "After online wars did not come over to newer flight sims, they lost most PAYERS I guess.

 

I think it's kinda silly to allocate all available ressources on creating new scenarios, new flyable planes, new XZY stuff like drivable tanks and all that stuff....

 

it should be Number one priority to change the gameplay mode to a COOP way that is FUN and COMPELLING, and keeps pilots flying and buying.

 

As long as this goal is not achieved, more solo campaings, add-ons and all that stuff are kinda pointless...

 

Would any pilot be eager to fly again just because there are new maps, and planes available, just to find himself in the same old boring world with pointless end endless dogfighting without proper score boards, campaign advance and all that good things required to create a compelling gaming experience? If you are stuck in the old DF world which is still the case, it feels like "all you will ever get is a Iron Cross 2nd Class, and it will be taken away from you every other day, regardless if you get killed or not"

[StG2_Juuti]

No online war? - not quite. There are some ambitious beginnings:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/?p=332792

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Tactical Air War, Interactive War, Friday Night Bomber Flights, Saturday Night Bomber Flights, Wings of Italy's French Challenge, the 216 SAD & 4./JG 52 Thursday Coop, coconut's French coop on Monday, the upcoming 6./ZG 26 Moscow campaign...

 

Lots and lots of stuff actually

 

That way you can fly with Coconut on Monday, TAW on Tuesday, Wings of Italy on Wednesday, 216th on Thursday, FNBF or IN-WAR on Friday, SNBF or IN-WAR on Saturday, and back to TAW on Sunday.

[Trooper117]

God, I remember those big online wars with Hyperlobby and the old IL2... I literally lived for those online experiences (as sad as that may sound)

There was something special about those times... For me, it had nothing to do with getting kills and improving scores. It was all about the great people we met and played against, plus using the right tactics, and achieving objectives.

 

Great times for WWII aviation fans... and I totally agree with the OP. 

[SC_Manu653]

Like Lucas said we have coop mission but from an another perspective. For the stats and the log we use on on our squad for DiD mission in coop like SNBF, FNBF and soon Coop Campaign on Coconut missions. If you want to particiapte in something bigger an organised I suugest you to try the 216th http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21643-fly-216th-mixed-aviation-division/ for the VVS side or the OKL http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22106-zerstorergeschwader-squad-benefits-without-time-commitment/ for the Axis side.

 

With this you can enjoy some command,control and coordination inside a cooperative experience.

Edited April 20, 2016 by 4./JG52Manu653

[seafireliv]

A friend of mine won`t fly this sim because of the lack of co op play unlike ROF, original IL2, which he flies a lot.

[FTC_Riksen]

Great post Nemesis!

 

I feel ur pain my friend and I also share the same feelings. Although some people have made these features available through 3 party apps or scripting, it is still not the same thing as having a coop mode built in the game itself reachable by a click of a button. The lack of a real Career mode and a Coop mode is what prevents me from playing this game. Although u can have the first using PWCG, it is sad to realize u have spent more than 100 bucks for a game series that lack these integrated options, which IMHO constitute the basic core for a flight simulator belonging to the il2 series. I do, however, believe in the dev team and the fact that they plan to integrate such features in the future, so i still support them and hope for it to be available sooner than later ...

[6./ZG26_Emil]

It almost seems to me like people are creating obstacles for themselves.

 

There are co-ops every night of the week. If your TZ doesn't have one then just host a mission with friends.

 

If you can't make a mission then some people wont mind you copying theirs, if you can't manage hosting ask someone else to do it.

 

Guys....don't let your dreams be dreams, just do it.....make you dreams come true!! 

 

 

 

[ITAF_Rani]

We need coop tournament h24 online..so you can fly when you want..

[=LG/F=Kathon]

We start new MP campaign on 12.05. All welcome!

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/page-5?do=findComment&comment=356057

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

Just chiming in to say a proper co-op mode with a chat lobby or something would imo increase the appeal of IL-2 BoS

 

As someone who's not as experienced in flight simming as he'd like to be - my options are go play campaign, or go join one of few populated MP servers.

 

I'm pretty useless without labels on.. If I do manage to spot something I'm guessing as to what it might actually be and whose side it's on.

 

And while I'd love this game to have a SP format similar to the current available release of il-2 1946 -  I'd honestly be really pleased with the ability to run the current campaign mission with friends and hop on the wing of a more experienced pilot to go tackle vicious AI while I learn combat maneuvers and develop a bird's eye view.

[KG200_Volker]

TS will never substitue HL, period. You must had used HL in old IL2 to understand the statement.

 

Memory lane, a friendly aircraft crash landing on enemy teritory, another friendly aircraft was landing near him and instead of geting a MIA your virtual life was saved by the guy that brought you back to base. (Sturmovik coop based online wars through HL)

[JG4_Nemesis]

To me, the biggest news of the new "big announcement" is that there will finally be a decent Multiplayer Coop Hosting (one life, one airplane each, one time of start for all pilots) System AND a propper Lobby with Chat System (and PN Pager and friend list hopefully!)

 

The missing of this part did ruin the long term motivation for me and all my fellow pilots, because it did just not make any sense to fly pointless dogfight servers with unlimited lives over and over - and kiddies bashing everyone around with vulching, intentional collisions and stuff....one life each plus global statistics does change the game!

A decent online war will increase the long term motivation off the scale compared to what was there before.

 

Without that, I would never have flown 600+ Missions in IL-2 Sturmovik Online War back in the year 2002.

 

Thank you for your continued efforts to making this sim the greatest ever - only thing still missing is a proper Fw190 Cockpit FOV - after you fix that, theres not much left to complain about

Edited December 16, 2017 by I/JG27_Nemesis

[BraveSirRobin]

 

The missing of this part did ruin the long term motivation for me and all my fellow pilots, because it did just not make any sense to fly pointless dogfight servers with unlimited lives over and over

 

So you just fly your coop and if you die you just go to bed?

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I wish we could have more news and details about now that is coming after Christmas. It could make a big difference and some squad still die-hards using the old Il2 1946 could make a step forward towards the Great Battle Series BOX.

I just finished my first TAW and I really liked it. It was a 24/7 Coop.

Edited December 17, 2017 by -=PHX=-Spartan-

[BraveSirRobin]

TAW isn’t a coop. It’s a dogfight style mission.

[Lusekofte]

Friday Night Bomberflight  is quite fun and like the old days serve a purpose. It gaining popularity and starts up after new year again. 

To me it is fond memories about ols times, but they are over, we have to play with what we got.

If wargame in existance is not good enough, then make a new one. Leaving the party do not solve the problem. I get quite enough flytime in FNBF and if I want more I think I would arrange it. There was a Saturday night bomberflight too ment for US citizens, but it never got too many people to join.

 

Do not leave, create something and get involved. There is nothing that stops anyone for making a war server for serious flying but yourself

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

So you just fly your coop and if you die you just go to bed?

If that was his last coop at that particular end of day and if hi is not vampire there is big chance he will go to bed or he can wait for next coop mission and stay alive to the end then go to bed with banana one the face.

Edited December 17, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[BraveSirRobin]

or he can wait for next coop mission 

 

So he has unlimited lives and respawns over and over.  Just like the dogfight servers.  The fact that he just moves to a different server doesn't change that coop players are playing the same respawn game as everyone else.  

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

So he has unlimited lives and respawns over and over.  Just like the dogfight servers.  The fact that he just moves to a different server doesn't change that coop players are playing the same respawn game as everyone else.

Of Course, but the point it that in given mission he has only one life. No unlimited respawns, no uncoordinated flights - it change everything. Edited December 17, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[BraveSirRobin]

 it change everything.

 

Only if you never play the game again after you get killed.  Otherwise it's no different from the people that respawn.  It changes nothing.

[Gambit21]

Roboin did you fly Hyperlobby CoOps in the old days with us?

The point is that for that particular instance of reality, (that mission with those pilots/players)  you have one life and you treat it differently because that mission, that one instance of reality only exists during that short time span.

You're suspending disbelief, it's just a different mind set. Of course you can join another mission later, that's not the point.

 

It's like if you were watching a movie and someone pulls the plug on it, and after that happens you can watch another movie, but never that exact one.

Similar, but never the same. So if you want your involvement in that reality to be safe, you're more careful, you fly differently etc.

That fact that you can watch another movie has nothing to do with how you regard the story/mission that you're involved in.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Gambit21