Reading materials, learning tools and getting better.

[Xenunjeon88]

I'm trying to learn the more "tactical" and come to grips of the more advanced aspects of aerial combat. I'm wondering if anyone found enlightening or useful books that they learned to apply in game through reading.

 

I've read "In Pursuit" and now I'm trying to chew through "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuvering"

 

I've also been practicing against AI in quick battles, but even on Ace, the AI isnt particularly challenging once you grasp the "predictableness" and tame flying they seem to exibit.

Online it's not so... clear... on what went wrong, what you did wrong, the moments and mistakes of the enemy you missed to capitalize on. Everything can get so crazy and hectic, hell even when I do things right and get the victory, when I start thinking about it and playing the fight in my head from memory, it's hard to wrap my head around "why did I win?" or alternatively, "why did I lose?". The most basic, general answer I can seem to come up with is, "I started the fight from an advantage and kept it up to the win." or again alternatively, "because he had the advantage and didn't lose it despite my efforts to do so. In fact, I may have given him more advantages trying to take earlier advantages away from him" and I can't seem to get any more deeper than that.

 

So what have you guys found useful in learning from your experiences? Other books and tools you guys found useful? Care to share the secrets of learning to be a great pilot? I mean, besides going out there and getting slaughtered and then trying again.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Xenunjeon88

[Willy__]

 

 

Online it's not so... clear... on what went wrong, what you did wrong, the moments and mistakes of the enemy you missed to capitalize on. Everything can get so crazy and hectic, hell even when I do things right and get the victory, when I start thinking about it and playing the fight in my head from memory,

 

Save the tracks of your fights! So you can watch them later, with external views and icons so it will help you visualize where and what you did wrong/right.

 

Watching others good pilots vids also helps! I recommend Mr.X and Karaya, they're excellent marksmen when it comes to shooting and truly experten flying the 109. 

 

Also flying together on TS with other more experienced pilots helps!

[6./ZG26_Emil]

In Pursuit and Robert Shaw's book are very good although the latter is very dry and not something that's easy to read as a book.

 

Requiem did a bunch of videos which explain most basic ACM like rope a dope or loose deuce which are well worth a watch even if they're for ROF.

 

If you're fairly new to sims or BOS I'd probably stick with one aircraft for a while and learn it's pros and cons

[Xenunjeon88]

Save the tracks of your fights! So you can watch them later, with external views and icons so it will help you visualize where and what you did wrong/right.

 

Watching others good pilots vids also helps! I recommend Mr.X and Karaya, they're excellent marksmen when it comes to shooting and truly experten flying the 109. 

 

Also flying together on TS with other more experienced pilots helps!

I can save tracks, but only through my cockpit view. (I play expert or custom expert online, so I don't know if expert settings turn off external views for track replays.) If thats not the case, what do you do to set up external view track replays?

 

 

In Pursuit and Robert Shaw's book are very good although the latter is very dry and not something that's easy to read as a book.

 

Requiem did a bunch of videos which explain most basic ACM like rope a dope or loose deuce which are well worth a watch even if they're for ROF.

 

If you're fairly new to sims or BOS I'd probably stick with one aircraft for a while and learn it's pros and cons

I'm trying to stick with the 190 because in my opinion, its one of the hardest planes to fight in. It's such a confusing read on 190s cause it was considered manuverable, yet it's hard to understand what they meant by that. The 190 can go into a high speed stall, and is even harder to stay in control at lower speed manuvers. I know they say only perform manuvers at high speed, yet just manuvering hard can knock off 100kph within moments. I know I have to make my movements coordinated and no sudden, jerky movements on the stick or rudder, but it is just so damn difficult to pull off a reversal when someone is on your six.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Xenunjeon88

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I can save tracks, but only through my cockpit view. (I play expert or custom expert online, so I don't know if expert settings turn off external views for track replays.) If thats not the case, what do you do to set up external view track replays?

 

 

I'm trying to stick with the 190 because in my opinion, its one of the hardest planes to fight in. It's such a confusing read on 190s cause it was considered manuverable, yet it's hard to understand what they meant by that. The 190 can go into a high speed stall, and is even harder to stay in control at lower speed manuvers. I know they say only perform manuvers at high speed, yet just manuvering hard can knock off 100kph within moments. I know I have to make my movements coordinated and no sudden, jerky movements on the stick or rudder, but it is just so damn difficult to pull off a reversal when someone is on your six.

 

Yep well it is very very maneuverable especially at high speeds where the 109 would be flying like a brick and have virtually no elevator or aileron response. Personally I'd fly it similar to the 109, go in to engagements with an altitude or significant speed advantage but the superior roll rate and elevator response and fire power makes one pass snapshots very effective. If you dogfight in it I'm the wrong person to ask because I never do that in any aircraft. One thing is for sure though you have to be very gentle with it even at high speed as it will stall with very little warning at high speed, maybe it's worth to change your sensitivity settings on your stick/in game when flying the 190.

[Willy__]

I can save tracks, but only through my cockpit view. (I play expert or custom expert online, so I don't know if expert settings turn off external views for track replays.) If thats not the case, what do you do to set up external view track replays?

 

You can save tracks with the Ctrl+R hotkey, it doesnt matter if you're playing on normal or expert servers, while viewing the track you can switch icons on/off and change the camera with F1, F2, F3, ..., etc keys.

 

 

The 190 is a tricky bird, you need to be very gentle and plan ahead all movements, its not very forgivable with errors like the 109. Climb high, stay fast and dont ever turn with the russians. Mainly all of your kills will come from ambushes (when the enemy did not see you) and deflection shooting, so load up some qmb and train that deflection shooting! If you need to turn with the russians to get a firing solution you`re doing it wrong. Try to always, ALWAYS stay above 300km/h. Use all 4 cannons to your advantage and set up your dives in a way that you destroy your enemy on the first pass or at least seriously cripple them, the 190 is not a dogfighter, its a butcher bird.

 

In case you get caught with you pants down (someone on your six), dive until you start to get some separation. If you somehow cant outrun them (you should!) use that awesome roll rate in your favor, do some scissors and barrel rolls and force them to overshoot.

 

In general, you always want to be flying fast and high, so you can dive on your enemies. If you can, bring a wingman, the 190 is awesome for pairs! When I fly with my friends I fear nothing when we are flying 190s because I know I can outrun everything and buy some time so my wingman can get up in a shooting position.

Edited August 15, 2015 by istruba

[indiaciki]

Listen to interviews. There are quite a few out there. Chuck posted some great ones on his youtube chanel.

 

here's some:

 

 

 

 

since you're into FW 190:

 

[indiaciki]

And do your ACM (vertical) and aerobatics low above the RWY - no room to lose altitude. Fly limited A/C like the stuke at cruise setting. You'll learn a lot about using and conserving engery. Watch your recorded tracks hitting the F11 button a few second before take off and watch your flight fron the RWY. You'll be a lot better when flying an overpowered and agile fighter.

 

Edited August 16, 2015 by indiaciki

[Wulf]

I'm trying to learn the more "tactical" and come to grips of the more advanced aspects of aerial combat. I'm wondering if anyone found enlightening or useful books that they learned to apply in game through reading.

 

I've read "In Pursuit" and now I'm trying to chew through "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuvering"

 

I've also been practicing against AI in quick battles, but even on Ace, the AI isnt particularly challenging once you grasp the "predictableness" and tame flying they seem to exibit.

Online it's not so... clear... on what went wrong, what you did wrong, the moments and mistakes of the enemy you missed to capitalize on. Everything can get so crazy and hectic, hell even when I do things right and get the victory, when I start thinking about it and playing the fight in my head from memory, it's hard to wrap my head around "why did I win?" or alternatively, "why did I lose?". The most basic, general answer I can seem to come up with is, "I started the fight from an advantage and kept it up to the win." or again alternatively, "because he had the advantage and didn't lose it despite my efforts to do so. In fact, I may have given him more advantages trying to take earlier advantages away from him" and I can't seem to get any more deeper than that.

 

So what have you guys found useful in learning from your experiences? Other books and tools you guys found useful? Care to share the secrets of learning to be a great pilot? I mean, besides going out there and getting slaughtered and then trying again.

 

 

I generally agree with Istru's comments about the 190 although not in all respects.

 

Firstly, as a general comment I'd just say no matter who you are, or what you fly, always attempt to enter a fight from an advantageous position.  In practical terms this usually means an altitude or speed advantage, or by picking an enemy who is in a distracted state.  Not only does this put the enemy on the back foot, but it also gives you a better chance of getting away if your initial assessment is incorrect.  

 

When fighting in the 190 I much prefer to limit myself to the two Mauser cannons.  That  makes you a bit lighter and somewhat more agile IMO.  Two 20 mm cannons are also quite sufficient in my experience.  As Istru mentioned, high angle-off deflection shooting is something of a feature of the 190 so learn to shoot.  Being a good shot is tremendously important so practice in QMB.  Far better to get the enemy with the first shot rather than the tenth.

 

As you know the 190 is about the worst 'turning' fighter in the game.  Although this doesn't help, it doesn't mean you can't engage in prolonged one-on-one fights either.  And it doesn't mean you always have to stay well above your enemies.  It just means you shouldn't get into sustained turning contests with an enemy.  If you are behind an enemy and he attempts to pull you into a turn - don't take the bait.  Stay straight, stay fast and extend. When in combat, use your ailerons to change your lift vector - before using your elevators.  If you fly on WOL you'll find you can live quite comfortably around 2-2.5km.  If you are caught short with an enemy approaching your tail  use your ailerons to roll your aircraft in the opposite direct to the pursuit curve of the attacking aircraft.  If you roll wide and pull low you can often get into a blind spot under his wing.  Use this opportunity to extend and re-position for an attack.  Attempt to regain lost altitude at every opportunity.  If you find yourself with multiple bandits on your tail, trim for max speed and attempt to extend beyond gun range then judiciously apply throttle in such a way that you stay there (out of gun range) without burning your motor.  Use your ailerons/elevators to make subtle changes to your direction and altitude when being shot at.  If there is just one enemy behind you, and co-alt/speed, attempt to extend while gradually climbing.  Step-climbing should eventually allow you to get enough of an altitude advantage that you can eventually dive and zoom climb up above him for another attack.  To do this successfully you must learn to accurately judge your energy state relative to his.  If you can't get sufficient altitude separation above him for another attack, go straight, extend and look for another target.

 

As far as ACMs are concerned, I haven't found any books that are really all that useful and practical.  All the fancy bs in the world won't help you without good SA.  Stay fast and keep your head on a swivel.  Change direction often, check the airspace under your tail every 10 seconds or so - more when in a combat zone.  Where you find one enemy expect to find more - quite possibly lining you up as you size up his friend.  Scissors (to force an over-shoot) and the like are fantastic when they work but realistically speaking they're desperate last ditch measures that will only work 'some' of the time - at least, that's been my experience.

[Dakpilot]

Most aircraft will turn/roll better in one direction than the other, quite often different aircraft from various Airforces/designers will have different propeller direction rotation, if you are turning/rolling in your least advantageous direction and your opponent is in his best direction.....well I don't have to spell it out., also aircraft have certain speeds which are best for certain manoeuvres, keeping the aircraft in its most optimal operating envelope is actually quite technical and not always intuitive

 

Anyway I guess what I am saying is that AS important as good knowledge of ACM is, a thorough understanding of your A/C's operating limits and its capabilities against its opposition is almost as important as the  'dogfight ' itself, with this knowledge and good situational awareness, ACM skills can be developed

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Free pdf book by Norbert Hannig found by 19te.Leaf

 

http://www.walk77.com/dog/files/luftwaffe_fighter_ace.pdf

[Dakpilot]

Just read part of the Chapter with JG54 on the Eastern Front, excellent read, will definitely  read the rest, am sure I have come across some excerpts from this befor,e very nicely written with some great insights

 

Thanks to all

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Some simple diagrams of basic ACM

 

http://www.combataircraft.com/en/Tactics/Air-To-Air/

[Dr_Molenbeek]

I'm trying to stick with the 190 because in my opinion, its one of the hardest planes to fight in. It's such a confusing read on 190s cause it was considered manuverable, yet it's hard to understand what they meant by that. The 190 can go into a high speed stall, and is even harder to stay in control at lower speed manuvers. I know they say only perform manuvers at high speed, yet just manuvering hard can knock off 100kph within moments. I know I have to make my movements coordinated and no sudden, jerky movements on the stick or rudder, but it is just so damn difficult to pull off a reversal when someone is on your six.

 

Don't give up, continue to practice with this high wing loaded plane and you will get used of his AoA behavior sooner than you think.

 

As said above, when you're below ~300km/h IAS in a fight and you see that the bandit who still has some energy is doing a vertical maneuver or something you cannot follow in your state, disengage with a shallow dive.

 

Fw 190 is more maneuverable than Bf 109... maneuverability is not only about "turn time", and even less about "turn time at low speed".

 

As long as you stay below 2000m (above what the plane underperforms seriously and get outclimbed by Yak-1 even at full power), you're simply the best fighter in BoS. And no, this is not only about speed as some incompetents troll want it to be, a "fast plane" with nothing else.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2015 by Ze_Hairy

[Mac_Messer]

I'm trying to learn the more "tactical" and come to grips of the more advanced aspects of aerial combat. I'm wondering if anyone found enli

 

So what have you guys found useful in learning from your experiences? Other books and tools you guys found useful? Care to share the secrets of learning to be a great pilot? I mean, besides going out there and getting slaughtered and then trying again.

You can use the books to some degree but mostly they are useless when flying online. Most of the online frustration comes from people who read books, tried to apply some things  in the game and got killed.  You train with your squad and do more online flying. You play the game and learn how it works. Every hour spent flying makes you notice different things. On 10th mission you will notice something, on 40th mission you will notice something else you could not on the 10th - you can learn that about yourself, about your partners or about your aircraft. Virtual pilots who know their planes and teammates inside out, excel

 

When people fly numerous missions toghether, they understand and predict moves of their buddies. Some squads even did engagements step by step according to their book of flying as if the whole thing was directed.

 

EDIT I wanted to add this : BoS is a fairly new game so not many people are masters at it. When playing 1946, you entered a squad with people who flew the game ex for 6 years. In squad training they gave you their knowledge so you quicky learned all the things most people did not know. Nevertheless you can always review missions and discuss them toghether, at least about some basics of air combat. Many of the things in 1946 apply to BoS, especially tactics and strategy - plane performance not so much.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Mac_Messer