What is you experience with ATI/AMD cards and sims?

[Caudron431]

Hi guys,

 

I always had a NVIDIA card. But as i am building a new rig for IL2BOS i'm considering buying the R9 280X by ATI, for it is cheaper and have 3 gigs of memory. How about the picture quality?

 

My question is: are ATi cards ok for simming. And what are the differences to be expected between  ATi and Nvidia (in sims don't play anything else, but would like to know about how ATi works with IL2CoD, IL2 1946, RoF, and DCS P-51)? My question is obviously for people that have experience with both cards, but any feedback is welcome

 

Thanks

[Bearcat]

My 7870 works great with DCS, RoF, 46, CoD and probably BoS as well.. when I get my mits on it..

[Revvin]

I've not had any issues with my AMD cards over the years, used to use NVidia but switched to AMD many years ago just to get more bang for buck but I'd happily go back to NVidia if I needed to. AMD get a bad rep for their drivers from some people but I've not had any problems , didn't NVidia release a driver a while ago that actually caused users cards to fail?

[Caudron431]

Thanks Bearcat and Revvin for taking the time to answer!

 

Good to hear that Ati cards seem to work OK with sims, as their price seem to be very competitive at the moment.

 

Did you guys notice any differences between Nvidia and Ati in game (picture quality)?

[Revvin]

I don't think there are any differences, there used to be maybe small differences but now its down to just raw number crunching comparisons between the two. If AMD's new 'MANTLE' API is used by developers then you may be better off with AMD but who knows what will happen with that, NVidia on the other hand have just announced their 'G-Sync' module for monitors that potentially does away with the need to use V-Sync which can have a big effect on framerate. You would have to have a monitor with this technology built into it and an NVidia card and again, who knows how it will take off.

[sop]

The Radeon R9 280X is basically a rebranded 7970, not a bad thing at all for its price its still a great card, the only issue I ever had with ati was their drivers which really aren't a problem these days they are on a par with NVidia easily.

[GabelschwanzTeufel]

I've had one for the last several years, no issues at all and if there is it's usually something related to the game engine. Occasionally you will run across one that prefers a certain gpu, but it's not as common as it once was, IMO.

[Caudron431]

Very interesting Revvin, thanks again.

 

Thank you too Sop and GabelschwanzTeufel, for sharing info and your views, much appreciated

[Alesia]

My Sapphire 7850 OC Edition chugs right through ROF and WT just fine.  Running on the Phenom II 965 with a cheapo (read: ~$40) motherboard so it's not the best rig in the word other than the GPU.  Everything maxed 1080p of course, aside from fluff like trees or plant/tree draw distance.

[Grifter]

RegRag:
 
I would highly recommend you knock around at two websites I have long used to help make informed decisions with PC component purchases.
 
Anandtech and Tom's Hardware

 

They are both known for their independence wrt reviews, etc. Also, as sop mentioned, they will be the first to sniff out some of the hijinks NVidia and AMD play with re-branding and naming conventions.

Tom's has a couple features I love- one is a seasonal CPU and GPU best value chart/article, the other is a Tier Chart for CPUs and GPUs, nice when you want to know if upgrading to that shiny new component you've had your eye on is really going to be worth it. 

 

Can't recommend them enough!

Have fun and see you in the skies soon.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Grifter

[Caudron431]

@Brann: Thanks for the feedback, very useful and much appreciated

 

@Grifter: Thanks too for the advice and links, i will check the sites

 

I appreciate you guys taking time to answer my questions

[Shea]

For me i would never go back to a ati/amd card.Gave me many problems from day 1,also the software is crap.My advise is get a nvidia card

[=LD=Hethwill]

So far so good. Got a saphire 7970 vaporx and runs smooth. RoF in a very high degree of performance visuals out of the box. With tweaks it goes spectacular. WT is easy to digest on any visual quality, but mind you, keep an eye on it as it has some strange coding and even if using med/low graphics the card can go extensively high resource... for some unknown reason. Can also lockup your entire buffer sometimes. As I never had it with other games I can only blame the underlying WT code.

 

CloD is a hard one to describe. Sometimes is smooth, others bounces with intense lag even on menus. DCS runs fine and dandy.

 

Nvidia has a better control software out of the box. Catalyst is more closed in some options.

 

I wouldn't recommend one or the other for the output quality compares, but would go more after the final assemblers brands. Saphire, Asus, are always good assemblers with excelent built in solutions for cooling and OC. VTX i'd stay away.

Edited October 23, 2013 by =LD=Hethwill

[Caudron431]

For me i would never go back to a ati/amd card.Gave me many problems from day 1,also the software is crap.My advise is get a nvidia card

Hey Shea, thanks for your answer! Could you be more specific about the things you really hated with with AMD cards, just curious

 

 

@Hethwill: thanks too for the feedback! Very interesting since R9 280X seems to be a rebranded 7970.

Edited October 24, 2013 by RegRag1977

[Dakpilot]

I have always been an Nvidia user and noted with interest a lot of problems (reported) by users of flight sims about AMD drivers, however a lot of this had to do with openGL and AMD . It was often suggested that "most" flight sims ran better on Nvidia.

However times have moved on and each generation from both manufacturers takes the performance/price lead for a short while. I will be doing a new build  of similar price components to my current setup but all AMD, simply because I have never experienced this before, it will be interesting then to compare Intel/Nvidia to an AMD/AMD setup directly 

 

In short I would suggest getting the best bang for buck in the format/manufacturer you are most comfortable in setting up and getting the most out of.

My experiences are that Nvidia usually run cooler/quieter and use less power than AMD for similar quality GRX, less heat in your box gives more room for overclock if you go down that route 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Caudron431]

Thanks too Dakpilot

[[JG2]Surf]

I have a VaporX 7950 running Eyefinity and it's great.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I have used both brands and can't say anything bad about them. Currently using the AMD 7970HD GHz Edition and it chugs along very nicely, especially with latest 13.11 Beta 7 drivers from AMD. My next card will be an AMD 290X as it seems to be a very competitive card at a reasonable price. To those complaining about heat on it the solution is liquid cooling. Can get those blocks for less than 100€ already. nVidia is launching their GTX780 Ti soon too and dropping prices on their normal GTX780. So boils down on your preference. Both brands offer spectacular performance at a fairly reasonable price these days.

 

 As of the G-Sync..Make it nV exclusive like PhysX and they can kiss my hairy buttocks :D Like they do not want to divide gaming community with their craptastic PhysX already..Opinionated maybe, but this is my only grudge against nV team..their goal to gain total control on things and excluding other brands..well AMD..with their "innovations". Their hardware is good though and driver support. As it is on AMD side as well.

[Hadwell]

G-sync is gonna be built into the monitor, not the videocard... dunno if it could be nvidia exclusive...

[ThudThunder]

I have an ATI Radeon 5670 and it runs ROF great, sucks at pretty much everything else though.

[SeaW0lf]

Thanks Bearcat and Revvin for taking the time to answer!

 

Good to hear that Ati cards seem to work OK with sims, as their price seem to be very competitive at the moment.

 

Did you guys notice any differences between Nvidia and Ati in game (picture quality)?

 

 

Reg, what I am going to say it is just my experience of upgrading my HD 6870 to a GTX 770. I might be doing something stupid with my HD 6870, since I am not a regular gamer.

 

I noticed a good bump in image quality of ROF with the GTX 770. The landscape looks richer in texture and color and the cockpit and the planes too. And I tested both cards one after the other (the HD 6870 is at my backup computer) and even with the same settings I can't get the 6870 to have the same richness and image depth of the GTX 770. I use FlightFX in both and it seems to me that it is not a problem of image setup. It is the GTX that renders a better, richer image. But ROF is basically based in the Nvidia cards, since AMD never gave feedback to them.

 

It might be a driver thing, since the HD 6870 is kind of old, but I remember that I had to replace a GTX 460 for the HD 6870 (the GTX was having overvoltage problems) and the GTX had better overall image (in gaming - the desktop looks the same).

 

The AMD has a good cost benefit, but right now I would only go back to AMD if I really needed. 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Seawolf

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Mantle API could be a real game changer if it fares well in Frostbite 3 engine and BF4.

Potentially letting lower end AMD cards perform on par with higher end nVidia cards.

[Caudron431]

Thanks guys to share your views with me, much appreciated!

[Grifter]

The first few reviews of the AMD R290X are in and anyone considering it should check them out. While very fast for the money, the card is hot and loud according to most reviews. Particularly compared to the NVidia 770 and 780, the new AMD card can't quite match their combination of power, heat and noise factors.

Check over at Tom's Hardware and Anandtech for starters guys.

One not so nice rumbling I am hearing is that AMD is understating total Wattage ratings in order to look good. Once the third party coolers are out for it things may improve, but I have never been much for hot and loud videocards. Your mileage may vary as they say.

Cheers.

[7./SchG2_BuRNeR]

Ok, I will leave here my opinion.

 

At first my videocard history: nv gf 2 gts -> ati 9500 pro -> 7800 gtx -> nv 7900 gtx -> ati hd 4870 -> ati hd 6970 -> ati hd 7970 ghz

 

You can see that I´ve an eye on performance/price. Thats the reason for me to choose ati/amd at the moment.

The mystery of the better driver for nvidia is still alive, but is absolutly nonsense. Well, there are some nice features like downsampling integrated there, but the most usefull things were on both drivers.

I had more stability problems with the nvidia and had the best effort with cusom drivers like dna or omega driver.

Open gl was mostly a bit better on nvida, but some open gl games runs still better on ati.

But now there are just a couple of modern open gl games/simulations on the market and if you choose one of the upperclass cards, you have enough performance with both there.

 

One thing is really better on nvidia, it is the stock cooler. The best solution is to wait for customdesigns from the 3rd party developer if you don´t want to put a watercooler on it.

I can give you a small example with my card. I´ve got a HIS 7970 iceq x2 ghz edition and it has great cooling performance and is really silent. To compare I will show a small review: http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/his-7970-iceq-x2-ghz-edition/13/

You should compare it with the stock ati 7970.  

For the current generation you should wait about 1-2 month for these kind of customcards.

The r9 290 and  r9 290 x were really strong cards for a great price, but like I said before, they need a better cooler.

If you choose a cheaper card, you can have the r9 280 x with customdesign which is the former hd 7970 ghz ed.

There is my advice for this card: http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-772.shtml

Edited November 11, 2013 by 7./Sch.G.2_BuRNeR

[Zettman]

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I don't wan't to make one myself if I would ask the exact same question.

 

How do AMD/ATI cards perform compared to Nvidia cards at the moment? I heard that AMD solved many driver problems in their latest release. But most benchmarks and reviews do not consider SIMs so I have no idea if this is still true if it comes down to games like IL2 BoS or DCS.

 

I'm especially concerned about multimonitor support (Eyefinity vs Nvidia Surround) and Crossfire vs SLI.

 

All I found is this old thread on the ATAG forum. Where they say that Nvidia cards are still superior to AMD cards, but that was nearly a year ago.

 

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6785&p=73012&viewfull=1#post73012

 

With best regards,

Zettman

[39bn_pavig]

Most AMD effort seems to go into the newer technologies, but NVIDIA seems to support older technologies fairly well. This has caused problems with AMD legacy cards and directx9 (which BoS is built on), but may be fixed down the line. NVIDIA's CUDA technology is more mature than the more open AMD/NVIDIA OpenCL, but that is probably only an issue for people doing 3D graphics or hardcore physics/maths simulation on the GPU. Also NVIDIA has the advantage of being installed on a bajillion xbox consoles, so adopts many of the advantages of a larger install base. They really are much of a muchness though. If you save quite a bit from a similarly specced AMD card you have to weigh that into your bang-for-buck equation. My advice is to go for the best deal you can get, whatever that happens to be.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Seems nVidia is launching their Maxwell based GTX cards soon enough too, the 9XX-series. AMD launched their 285X based on Tonga-series. I have to say I am happy with my AMD 290X 4Gb, no bad things to say really. Drivers work, games run well and all that. Price these days ain't bad either. Being a rabid fanboi helps nothing, neither company cares if you are a "brown nose fanboi crusader" if they get your money, deal done and case closed for them Get whatever you want, make comparisons using websites etc. and seal the deal

Edited September 6, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

[Zettman]

Get whatever you want, make comparisons using websites etc. and seal the deal

 

Well the problem is that Sims are often left out from GPU reviews. Only mainstream games are reviewed.

 

Another question, what will be implemented earlier in BOS? SLI or CF support? I'm sticked with NVIDIA quite some time now, but the R9 295x2 just dropped to 900€.

 

Zettman

[Ace_In_Exile]

I have a full Amd pc with a CPU Amd fx 8120 and a GPU amd Hd 7970 3Gb. I think today Amd in very competitive on quality/price ratio. About sims, i can play CLoD, Il-2, BoS without any kind of problems

[Zettman]

I have a full Amd pc with a CPU Amd fx 8120 and a GPU amd Hd 7970 3Gb. I think today Amd in very competitive on quality/price ratio. About sims, i can play CLoD, Il-2, BoS without any kind of problems

 

Other sites said that AMD GPUs had some problems in Clod like rendering the shores of rivers and smoke. Are these issues gone now with the latest drivers or are they still there?

 

Zettman

[Charlo-VRde]

I have ATI but it appears Nvidia allows more card-level control of AA. I am envious of that until BOS can fix In-game AA working with SweetFX.

[Ace_In_Exile]

Other sites said that AMD GPUs had some problems in Clod like rendering the shores of rivers and smoke. Are these issues gone now with the latest drivers or are they still there?

 

Zettman

Personally i'd never encourred on this issues.

The most problem is about the physix, because the nVidia Cards have an Hw controller that head on the Physix's processing, meanwhile the Ati Card emulate the processing via software.

The other problem is about the 3Gb of the Cards (ati or nvidia, no matter), because lot of games support maximum 2 Gb

[Zettman]

I just found this.

 

 

 

At 4K though things look bad for AMD. The company has stated quite plainly that the fixes for frame pacing with DX9 just are never coming, and as a result, Skyrim shows some dramatic frame time variance in our testing. This pushes average frame rates (when removing the runt frames) down to about 90 FPS on the R9 295X2 while both NVIDIA solutions sit at about 120 FPS.

 

 

Link: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-TITAN-Z-Review/Skyrim

 

Since BoS also uses DX9 this could be an issue. I couldn't find any official statement from AMD about a fix for the frame pacing with DX9. I also haven't followed the latest driver releases from AMD (I have only Nvidia cards), so I don't know if this issue is already fixed, the review I linked is from June 10 2014.

 

 

The other problem is about the 3Gb of the Cards (ati or nvidia, no matter), because lot of games support maximum 2 Gb

 

Yeah I had some of these issues too, but should have no problem with more than 2GB of VRAM or is this issue related to the use of DX9?

 

 

Zettman

Edited September 6, 2014 by Zettman

[oneeyeddog]

I have an AMD 8320 CPU and a ATI 7970 GPU, both OC'ed and I've been very happy with the performance I get in BoS, RoF,DCS and CLOD. 

[Ace_In_Exile]

Yeah I had some of these issues too, but should have no problem with more than 2GB of VRAM or is this issue related to the use of DX9?

 

Zettman

Isn't related to the DirectX, is related to the single game, with his native code.

But for this there are many solution (i.e. Commandlines)

Gta Iv is the most famous game with Lots of Hw issues.

Link for an example commandline: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761829

Edited September 6, 2014 by Ace_In_Exile

[Zettman]

It is a bit sad that BoS is based on DX9, other wise the R9 295x2, which currently only costs 900€ (like some single core Nvidia cards) would be a no brainer.

 

Will we see CF and SLI support at the same time or could it happen that we have SLI support and CF will take another year?

 

Zettman

[Fishbed64]

That may be your opinion but mine is the complete opposite.

 

I have a very similar history to you, like you, chasing the best performance for price.

 

I have always been frustrated by the ATI drivers.

 

Their biggest failing is the fact that you cannot create per-game profiles. I had to use a 3rd party program to achieve this.

 

Last week I built my new PC and went for a 770 GTX where I had a Radeon 5870 in my previous rig and coming back to NVidia felt like a breath of fresh air.

 

Its OK, opinions vary!

I 100% agree with you, for every sim player only way to smooth gameplay is Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU it is just fact...Nvidia drivers are great with much lover demand on CPU,AMD drivers just dont work well in flight sims overall especially in DCS world and FSX.AMD have great hardware and prices but thier drivers just need lot of work. 

[skline00]

I have a GTX &80 Classified AND a Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X. Both play the sim very well

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Can't complain about AMD drivers. For example I run Mechwarrior Online on almost full settings(disabled motion blur and other gimmicks) at a steady 60fps VSync on. Can easily get over 100fps without VSync. And CryEngine is the "the way you are meant to be shafted" aka nV optimized Same applies to other games like EVE Online, Men of War-series, Cliffs of Dover etc. They all run just fine. I bet most of the alleged driver problems are mainly due the game engine bugs and on top of that users tweaking/forcing settings expecting it to work. This happens in both camps, unrealistic expectations when they meddle with the settings and use heavy OC.

 

 For me both brands have offered good performance and IQ in games, both having their issues with drivers. For now using AMD as the 290X offers better bang for the buck compared to nVidia GTX780Ti, the price tag difference simply does not justify the marginal gains in FPS. Could not care less if nV poops out 122fps and my card 116fps if the average and minimum are the same or within single digits.