III/JG52_Otto_-I- Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 From BoS was released many people have claimed that Bf-109 elevator trim model was wrong. The Bf-109 IRL was capable to fly level and "hands off" at cruise speed, with the elevator trim set in zero. At present day in this game, this is not possible, we need to fly de bf-109F and G with the elevator trim set to +1 or +2 (tail-up) at cruise speed, instead off zero as Messerschmitt handbook recommended. I think, that Is a shame that 1C starting a new project as BoM without fixing the BoS main bugs completely.I will not buy the "BoM" until 1C fix the trim of Bf-109.
Roo5ter Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Maybe Im just noob or maybe it's just my stick with the soft springs but I use trim absolutely zero in this game. It always seems comfortable to just fly without and autolevel takes care of the longer flights. 1
III/JG52_Otto_-I- Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 Maybe Im just noob or maybe it's just my stick with the soft springs but I use trim absolutely zero in this game. It always seems comfortable to just fly without and autolevel takes care of the longer flights. That is not true, ..I have discussed with several friends in MP in this game, and if they try flying at cruising speed the Bf-109 (about 500km/h) with the elevator trim handwheel set in zero, the plane nose rises, And that behavior, doesn't match the comments of the pilots who flew this airplane. That not the real elevator trim behavior of Bf-109, ..
Finkeren Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 Is this a real issue? Yes. Bf 109s have way too ineffective pitch trim/are too tail heavy. Still doesn't justify childish 'threats' like "I won't buy BoM until XXXXX!!!"
Saurer Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I don't think that it is wrong that the BF 109 need a lot of nose down trim and a little stick pressure because all 3 recent 109 Flight Model (the two in BOs and the K4 in DCS) have it this way.
Godfather_Actual Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 You wont but BOM cause of a trim issue! Lmao 2
APIKalimba Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 From BoS was released many people have claimed that Bf-109 elevator trim model was wrong. The Bf-109 IRL was capable to fly level and "hands off" at cruise speed, with the elevator trim set in zero. At present day in this game, this is not possible, we need to fly de bf-109F and G with the elevator trim set to +1 or +2 (tail-up) at cruise speed, instead off zero as Messerschmitt handbook recommended. I think, that Is a shame that 1C starting a new project as BoM without fixing the BoS main bugs completely. I will not buy the "BoM" until 1C fix the trim of Bf-109. Don't buy the game sir. You will never be happy playing it. You will always find something wrong with it if this kind of issue is a major obstacle. 1
SharpeXB Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 From BoS was released many people have claimed that Bf-109 elevator trim model was wrong. The Bf-109 IRL was capable to fly level and "hands off" at cruise speed, with the elevator trim set in zero. At present day in this game, this is not possible, we need to fly de bf-109F and G with the elevator trim set to +1 or +2 (tail-up) at cruise speed, instead off zero as Messerschmitt handbook recommended. I think, that Is a shame that 1C starting a new project as BoM without fixing the BoS main bugs completely. I will not buy the "BoM" until 1C fix the trim of Bf-109. Get some actual flight test data for the aircraft and post it here. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/94-fm-discussion/
6./ZG26_Emil Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 There are sims out there where all aircraft fly on rails so there is always something to cater for everyone. BOS is a challenge and I like it
Roo5ter Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 That is not true, ..I have discussed with several friends in MP in this game, and if they try flying at cruising speed the Bf-109 (about 500km/h) with the elevator trim handwheel set in zero, the plane nose rises, And that behavior, doesn't match the comments of the pilots who flew this airplane. That not the real elevator trim behavior of Bf-109, .. Whats not true? My stick has soft springs? I use auto level? I never commented on anything historic you didn't even read my post. You are obviously one of those people just in a frenzy being stupid and you discredit yourself.
III/JG52_Otto_-I- Posted May 31, 2015 Author Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Maybe Im just noob or maybe it's just my stick with the soft springs but I use trim absolutely zero in this game. It always seems comfortable to just fly without and autolevel takes care of the longer flights. Whats not true? My stick has soft springs? I use auto level? I never commented on anything historic you didn't even read my post. You are obviously one of those people just in a frenzy being stupid and you discredit yourself. What are you trimming at "absolutely zero" the Joystick or the elevator trim handwheel in the cockpit of the airplane? ..the hardness or softness of your joystick springs has nothing to do with the airplane flight attitude ..only affects what you feel in your hand. I see from your answers that you don´t know what I'm talking about. Edited May 31, 2015 by III/JG52_Otto_Mas
=CFC=Conky Posted May 31, 2015 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm pretty sure cruising speed for the 109 is not ~500 km/h. Rudder trim is not adjustable in-flight although the fixed tab was set so the pilot could fly 'feet free' at ~400 km/h (iirc), which is a more realistic speed for cruising, i.e. just getting from one place to the next. Have you tried cruising at this speed or thereabouts? Stab trim might be closed to 0 at this speed. Good hunting, Conky 3
D_Konig Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 I refuse to buy BOM until the clouds are the correct historical shade of white! They are off by 0.0081% ! 2
Hoots Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 If the absolute best reason you can find not to buy a game is that a trim wheel is 2 or 3 degrees out then I would say buy the game because there's not much wrong with it. Seriously dude, talk about throwing your toys out the pram.
Dakpilot Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 This topic has been brought up before... It is pointless further discussing it until some-one brings genuine info for the recommended cruise speeds for the versions of the BF 109 that there are contentions about. It is well documented that at higher speeds the E model required a rudder input to fly straight when higher than cruise speeds were used due the fixed rudder tab only being effective at certain speeds, and I understand the same was true for the later models. It is a boring subject but many do not realise how much fuel is used, when above economical cruise settings are used, there is little point blasting to the action point (LOL) and having small fuel reserves for combat and return flight. Fuel management was a major consideration for fighter pilots even more so in the harsh conditions of Eastern front combat. It is not so glamorous but correct fuel (and engine) management is a much more critical part of pilots job than charging around flat out as most do on servers, notwithstanding the logistic supply situations for fuel and aircraft spares. Having said all that it is quite possible that the trim is out by 1 degree when considering the 'meant to be at zero on the indicator when cruising' although in all my experience I have never set trim by looking at an indicator except for setting in a pre-flight however before claiming in public that the sim is inaccurate enough to warrant not buying the sequel, actual facts should be used to back up these claims Cheers Dakpilot 2
-TBC-AeroAce Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The f has effective trim and the g has a little problem with trim yes but really a game breaker???? I don't know if its correct or not but maybe should be looked at
NN_RugbyGoth Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 If you want it corrected, bring in some documented facts like original Messerchmitt handbook you are referring to. If you don't do so, your post is just a troll. o7
Dakpilot Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The f has effective trim and the g has a little problem with trim yes but really a game breaker???? I don't know if its correct or not but maybe should be looked at I am no expert on the finer details of Messerschmitts but the G2 was a large departure in design from the F series with a much heavier engine and definitely a different C of G, a lot was however carried through to the newer model for simpler manufacturing/maintenance/spares procedures, was an new trim system designed and fitted or the previous one made use of to save costs/time ? Many reports from pilots of the time (unconfirmed hearsay ) preferred the better handling qualities of the "purer" F series when compared to the "compromised" design choices forced by operational considerations to keep performance parity for the aircraft with newer combatants appearing. The trouble with threads like this is that the 'headline' states there is a serious problem (enough to turn the poster away from the game) and to the casual reader of forums that is all that will be observed, and the potentially interesting and educational pages of debate will be skimmed over until it degenerates into the usual FM discussions . Whilst it is everyone's right to bring up questions of historical accuracy, a bit like a tabloid newspaper the 'screaming headline' is subliminally remembered and the later apology printed five pages in is usually forgotten.... Cheers Dakpilot
IVJG4-Knight Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) I don't think that it is wrong that the BF 109 need a lot of nose down trim and a little stick pressure because all 3 recent 109 Flight Model (the two in BOs and the K4 in DCS) have it this way. The 109 in DCS doesn't wobble like jelly. And the 109 in CLOD doesn't wobble also. + None of the 109's in the simulations I mentioned above stall when pushing negative G's. In il2 bos the german aircraft behave like ragdolls. Edited June 1, 2015 by IVJG4-Knight 2
Dakpilot Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 The 109 in DCS doesn't wobble like jelly. And the 109 in CLOD doesn't wobble also. + None of the 109's in the simulations I mentioned above stall when pushing negative G's. In il2 bos the german aircraft behave like ragdolls. " until it degenerates into the usual FM discussions ." And there ends any sensible discussion....lol Cheers Dakpilot
IVJG4-Knight Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 " until it degenerates into the usual FM discussions ." And there ends any sensible discussion....lol Cheers Dakpilot I can't help it . Do you realize that before the latest updates.The 190 controls were just as stiff as a 109's. That's a huge mistake. And it went on since development.
Hoots Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 I can't help it . Do you realize that before the latest updates.The 190 controls were just as stiff as a 109's. That's a huge mistake. And it went on since development. "Before the latest update" meaning they fixed it. How very dare they!
FlatSpinMan Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Okay, everyone is free to do what they want with their money and leisure time. No need to be too hard on the OP. OP - I assume you've already posted about this in the bug reports thread where it may do some good. If you have, I hope you receive a favourable response, if you haven't, please do so.
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