Heavy Bomber, bombsight and multiple human crew

[LAL_Luny]

Well yesterday we've flown another french ccop Wednesday mission.

 

As usual we started with a schwarm of 4/5 He 111 which I was supposed to lead.

 

After about half way to target I had to land due to hardware problems. After that I jumped into Habu's plane as front gunner and navigator, thing that I was supposed to do as leader.

 

My other supposed role as leader was to set bombsight and give settings to the schwarm...but its impossible for the front gunner (navigator) to have access to the bombsight and use it.

 

It's a real pitty because historically the pilot didn't navigate and use bombsight : it was the front gunner/navigator's task in the Heinkel.

 

Could this be changed so that the front gunner has access to bombsight in MPwith multi human crew ?

 

I know its not for everyone, but its a bit disappointing

 

[JimTM]

It's a real pitty because historically the pilot didn't navigate and use bombsight : it was the front gunner/navigator's task in the Heinkel.

 

Could this be changed so that the front gunner has access to bombsight in MPwith multi human crew ?

 

Yes, pretty please. This would be a great enhancement. Hopefully it's technically possible.

Edited April 23, 2015 by JimTM

[[DBS]El_Marta]

It's a real pitty because historically the pilot didn't navigate and use bombsight : it was the front gunner/navigator's task in the Heinkel.

 

Could this be changed so that the front gunner has access to bombsight in MPwith multi human crew ?

 

 

+ 1 on this. It is not for everyone, but there are a number of pilots who would appreciate it.

[Neil]

Yes, that would be so nice and realistic
A medium /heavy bomber pilot does not play with the bombsight.
 
I hope it will be impemented, somehow, it would be a nice addition.
 
 Daidalos team are working on that for IL2 1946 4.13
See that  video!!!

https://youtu.be/2kFDz-Yi1Xg

Edited April 24, 2015 by Neil

[Cybermat47]

The bomb aimer should definitely be a different position than the pilot. It's a great feature in CloD.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I think when you are the pilot you can switch to bombardier view from any position.

[Potenz]

I think when you are the pilot you can switch to bombardier view from any position.

what he's asking for, is the ability to enter in a Bomber as Bombardier and be able to man the bombsight

without having to enter the plane as a pilot

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Im really for this but I think it would take some quite big modifications and really carefull gameplay considerations.

 

IMO a whole new multi crew system would have to be programed.

 

How would this be managed?

 

for example in the bombsite you can control the plane left and right, so therefore sombody could leap into the plane as a front gun/bomb aimer and start doing the pilots job. As a gunner can change to all positions apart from the pilots seat, could any possition use the bombsite or just the forward one? In the case of the later would it mean the pilot cant use the bomb site if a real player was in the AC?

 

 Would you make it so people are locked into there position? Make another bombsite with out the control over the plane? Create a signaling system for people not on team speak to turn left and right etc?

 

I want this but there are more things to think about than it seems IMO in order to have it really itergrated well

[Habu]

As for gunner, if that feature is implemented, it should be have the posibility to lock that position.

 

Like Luny, i'll love having that feature.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Habu

[LAL_Luny]

Yes I know it may involve quite some work.

 

Maybe the bomber/front gunner station could be locked independently from other gunner stations.

 

As for the ability to control it could be as it is know when either the pilot or bomber are in bombsight view the autolevel is engaged with maybe a priority for the pilot to take back control of commands in case of emergency,

 

@Potenz : love Die TH, Bis zum bitteren Ende is the best album ever made in the world

Edited April 24, 2015 by UF_Luny

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I was kinda thinking in real life that the bomb aimer may have had some kinda auto pilot control but I was more worried about if a random jumps in and starts being a dick.

 

I guess the solution to that is the bomb aimer can only take control as a result of the pilot allowing it, like a button to open auto pilot control

[Sokol1]

I was kinda thinking in real life that the bomb aimer may have had some kinda auto pilot control but I was more worried about if a random jumps in and starts being a dick.

 

Just make this like is actually for gunners, the pilot can lock these positions if want - since always are people to take over gunner to shoot at the nearest plane - enemy or not.

 

In RL, in planes with autopilot (B-17, B-24) the pilot put the plane in autopilot (like players put the game plane in "AI autopilot for level flight"*) and transfer the control - small corrections though autopilot to bombardier (BTW - reasonable mimic the movie Unbroken), in the bomb run the pilot is a mere passenger.

 

In planes without autopilot, example Pe-2(?), the bombardier inform the pilot through light signals to correct for left or righ - see the (ethernal Wip) TD 4.13 patch for il-2'46.

 

* The argument that in game the player can't pilot the plane and set the bombardier at same time is moot, because in games during the bomb run the plane are on AI autopilot for level flight (BoS), auto level (1946), so this aid is the pilot, not the player.

 

This dual work was necessary in CloD for Blenheim and BR.20 - no autopilot/autolevel - but became almost impossible do level bomber, specially with Blenheim that have only rudder and elevator trim, making extremely difficult get a stable level flight. Is possible one player pilot and other do the bombardier job (and gunner)**, but since the bombers players are rare, bombardier players are move rare. 

 

The only bomber crew that is relative easy to recruit is some 'triggerhappy" gunner. 

 

End with TF borrowing the Kurssteurung (autopilot) from He 111/Ju 88 and installing in Blenheim and Br.20 making these planes usable as level bombers.

 

** As Clod "is CloD" this end with the collateral effect that the last two planes positions occupied by human player became inaccessible for AI... 

Edited April 24, 2015 by Sokol1

[13Nrv]

I totally agree with luny ,

the possibility for an other player than the pilot( and i mean a real teammate for real team work....not a sandbag)  to take control of the bomsight would be both historical and would too be a nice feature to work as a team , it would be an excellent feature to increase both immersion and fun ...

 

I ve always liked to jump as a  gunner both in Rof and in Bos ,because of  team work with the pilot (that means Team speak on of course), the ability / possibility to give pilot more informations about contacts --targets-navigation -other formation friends/foes   etc etc .... the possibility to handle the bombsight for the "right historical gunner" would just be both historical and would enhance the gameplay and immersion .

And it can also lead people to jump more easily into bombers to see how it work and to learn more easily how to manage them and may be to populate servers with more bombers with human crews...

 

 

By the way , i have no idea at all about the work it asks for Devs to implement such a feature ....i dunno at all .  But if it s possible without requiring too many efforts i vote a big YES !

 

13

Edited April 25, 2015 by 13Nrv

[LAL_Luny]

UP

 

I'd really like to have a developer answer on this. If possible of course

[Jupp]

~S~ Everyone,

 

I too would love this feature to be implemented. There's got to be a way to make it viable.

 

Please Aviation Gods, make this happen!  

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Jupp

[F/JG300_Gruber]

[Lord_Pyro]

Still nothing?

I asked for it right after they made their IL2 Developement official but back then also no one replied

[Asgar]

maybe you should simply read the Q&A thread from time to time

[Lord_Pyro]

Ok, it might have been several years ago, i visited this board here the last time :D

 

What did they replie?

[TP_Silk]

I've just posted this in the official 'Suggestions' forum. Please don't think I'm stealing your ideas, I just thought that if it gets put there as well it may get read by the relevant people

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21968-new-crew-position-bombardier/

[NachtJaeger110]

 

NachtJaeger110, on 22 Sept 2015 - 13:56, said:

Will you separate the positions of bomber pilot and bomb aimer in the future? I would love to fly with a buddy together in a 111 or Pe2, me as the pilot and the buddy as bomb aimer and front gunner 

 

 

To this Han replied:

 

"May be one day. But now it's not planned."

[Asgar]

Yogiflight, on 17 Mar 2016 - 19:35, said:

have you thought about switching side between front MG and right rear MG, so the navigator (Beobachter) could support the radio operator, who shot from his seat, with the left rear MG, with defensiv fire? So you could, as player, shoot the one rear MG and let the other one be fired by a second player or AI.

For a while it is not possible. One crew member functions can't be shared now (this why navigator can't operate bombsight).

 

6./ZG26_Asgar, on 08 Apr 2016 - 15:07, said:

 

does that mean there are plans to make this possible in the future?

 

May be.

[Blitzen]

I don't fly bombers very often,but I gather there is no bombsight view in SP or MP?

[LeRocket]

I don't fly bombers very often,but I gather there is no bombsight view in SP or MP?

no there is, but only accessible by the pilot.

[Blitzen]

no there is, but only accessible by the pilot.

What's the keystroke command and under which heading  ?

[[CPT]milopugdog]

What's the keystroke command and under which heading ?

I think the default bomb sight command is V.

[Habu]

I think the default bomb sight command is V.

You're right, that's the default key.

[TP_Silk]

I think the default bomb sight command is V.

 

It is - and don't forget to put your aircraft into Auto-level flight first (default key Shift+A) :D

[JimTM]

It is - and don't forget to put your aircraft into Auto-level flight first (default key Shift+A) :D

That happens automatically when you go to the bomb sight Silk (for me anyway).

[TP_Silk]

Oh, Okay. I wouldn't have thought to go to the sight without making sure the plane wasn't going to go drifting off so wouldn't have known that. Maybe I'm just a belt and braces type guy in that respect. Good that they thought of it though

[Yogiflight]

It used to do, but for me it doesn`t anymore. I have now to set auto-level by myself before I enter bombsight mode.

[Blitzen]

Thanks guys ,I think I might try this with the new'88" in SP missions.Is using the bombsight with fly level keystroke pretty intuitive or is there  quick read-me?

[TP_Silk]

It's not too bad - check your altitude (remembering target altitude as well and heading. Check wind speed and direction from the little app in the bomb sight for weather report and input the settings closest to your altitude. Put all these values in and away you go. There are tooltips on each input device that help out. Sights are very slightly different for German and Soviet planes, but the basics are the same. The only major difference is that the German sights also have an auto-track function.

It is often handy to do this the first time or three with the Bombing assistance setting enabled in the options. That way you see a 'bubble' that will eventually be directly under your bombing crosshairs if you have input all the values correctly.

 

There is a function in each sight that allows you to free view the terrain coming up so you can make course changes and you can do this from within the sight. Only minor changes can be made though.

 

Last but not least don't forget to open your bomb doors and select how many bombs you want to drop in one salvo.

 

Have fun

[Yogiflight]

You can also take a look into Chuck`s Aircraft Guide in the Manuals section. He gives some good advices for handling the aircrafts and shows how to work with the bombside in the Pe2 in manual mode and in the He111 in auto mode.

[216th_Jordan]

It is - and don't forget to put your aircraft into Auto-level flight first (default key Shift+A) :D

Mine goes into autolevel automatically o.O

[LukeFF]

Thanks guys ,I think I might try this with the new'88" in SP missions.Is using the bombsight with fly level keystroke pretty intuitive or is there quick read-me?

Yes, it's called the manual.

[mort]

It is often handy to do this the first time or three with the Bombing assistance setting enabled in the options. That way you see a 'bubble' that will eventually be directly under your bombing crosshairs if you have input all the values correctly.

 

Agreed, using the bombing assist for the first couple of runs gives you an instant visualization of the impact of each dial change as you watch the yellow circle makes it's way to the center of the cross hairs.

[LeFrenchCat]

+1 on bombersight with other slots.

I have some friends that like bombers but just aren't good at sight and navigation. In the other hand, after a hard day, i could just drink my beer and take care of that for them, while they enjoy flying the simulator

[GrendelsDad]

They could sell $20 standalone game with gunner and tank access only.

Edited April 18, 2016 by 6./ZG1_GrendelsDad

[xvii-Dietrich]

Thanks guys ,I think I might try this with the new'88" in SP missions.Is using the bombsight with fly level keystroke pretty intuitive or is there  quick read-me?

 

Here is the link to the official manual. It is somewhere to start, at least.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16752-il-2bos-user-manual-released-first-edition-english/

 

Bombing instructions are on pages 34-36.