BladeMeister Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 When are the landing models of each plane going to be fixed? BOS landing simulation is ridiculously bouncy. It makes me think that the landing physics from ROF have been imported and with heavier planes they you just bounce all over the place like you have giant balloon tires. When will we see a fix for this? S!Blade<>< 2
-=PHX=-Satch Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jYkTkcUntY 1
Brano Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I add 1 point for this,but in meaning of downvote,as it is not possible to do it on this forum. Can we have a downvote possibility here?
Finkeren Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Learn to land. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKPS5aPvOc We all had to go through this at some point. Edited February 21, 2015 by Finkeren
dburne Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I agree Blade, unfortunately though you are not going to get anywhere with it here...
Finkeren Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I'm curious to hear, what you guys think should be different? Just about every video I've ever seen of WW2-era fighters landing has involved at least one bounce. Even modern day air show warbirds flown extremely carefully by experienced pilots with hundreds of hours on taildraggers bounce a lot during landings. Just out of curiosity I went on Youtube just now and searched for videos of Spitfires landing. Most were modern day air show vids, some were wartime footage, but I simply couldn't find a single example of a landing, where the Spit didn't bounce off the runway at least once, and some of the wartime footage made landings in BoS look like a walk in the park. Edited February 21, 2015 by Finkeren 3
-TBC-AeroAce Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Well, I actually find landing extremely realistic in BoS ? Are you using the correct speeds over the rw threshold, flare... ? Are your flaps properly set for landing ? +1
BlueJayslivernyc Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I go up on practice missions just to practice landing I still suck at it. the BF109 is a tuff to land. I usually bounce and wind up crashing.
-TBC-AeroAce Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) landings are quite easy once u have them locked in. Key points: have correct speed, flaps and trim, learn how high off the deck u are people should try dcs if u think this is hard Edited February 21, 2015 by AeroAce
BladeMeister Posted February 21, 2015 Author Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) The Landing physics are obviously miscalculated. Even the 109 on the grass field landed almost flawlessly. If you want me to keep posting more WWII birds landing with no bounce or just one minor bounce I will. It is so funny for people to say, "almost every video I watch the WWII bird bounces multiple times or at least one high bounce upon landing". I searched Yak landing and I came up with each of these videos back to back, no searching. It is funny, I don't bounce in DCS, I don't bounce in CLOD, I hardly bounce in ROF and I have never had trouble in IL2 1946. I don't claim to be a landing expert, but this is just wrong. Sure I can work around it and come in at a really exaggerated shallow angle and make it work, but the fact remains that there is something inherently wrong with the landing physics adjustment in BOS. To make an initial flare at correct landing speed and ease the throttle off at maybe a half meter off the runway, touch once and bounce and float(throttle still at idle) almost half way down the runway before you touch the runway again, that is not realistic. Say what you will but this is a flaw within BOS that has existed from its beginning, and it needs addressed. S!Blade<>< .58 seconds .12 seconds 4:31 seconds 4L29 4:51 Edited February 21, 2015 by BladeMeister
Primus_71 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Check your speed coming in and make sure you're flaring properly and you will not bounce
indiaciki Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 hm...fighter aircaft of that era were designed for grass strips. all taildraggers are. Even now on airshow they use a grass strip if there is one. Landing is by default the most difficult part of flying and 's one of the things BOS does best. I'd really, really recomend this lecture to all who have trouble landing, ground looping, take offs... http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14690-great-lecture-new-pilots-or-those-new-flying-taildraggers/ USE SOKOL1's link and watch it in youtube. It's like everything you need to know in 1h.
indiaciki Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) The Landing physics are obviously miscalculated. Even the 109 on the grass field landed almost flawlessly. If you want me to keep posting more WWII birds landing with no bounce or just one minor bounce I will. It is so funny for people to say, "almost every video I watch the WWII bird bounces multiple times or at least one high bounce upon landing". I searched Yak landing and I came up with each of these videos back to back, no searching. It is funny, I don't bounce in DCS, I don't bounce in CLOD, I hardly bounce in ROF and I have never had trouble in IL2 1946. I don't claim to be a landing expert, but this is just wrong. Sure I can work around it and come in at a really exaggerated shallow angle and make it work, but the fact remains that there is something inherently wrong with the landing physics adjustment in BOS. To make an initial flare at correct landing speed and ease the throttle off at maybe a half meter off the runway, touch once and bounce and float(throttle still at idle) almost half way down the runway before you touch the runway again, that is not realistic. Say what you will but this is a flaw within BOS that has existed from its beginning, and it needs addressed. S!Blade<>< .58 seconds .12 seconds 4:31 seconds 4L29 4:51 Just guess how many flying hours these pilots flying warbirds have on any type of aircraft and then ad the hours on warbirds... that's why they rarely bounce. This is me listening to chief (otherwise I wouldn't talk about that). My father was trained flying warbird-like trainers in the 70s. He doesn't fly sims. He flew and landed the 109 F in BOS and the 109 K in DCS. He flew them for the very first time and landed without bouncing at all. he did 2 approaches and go arounds and landed. Two flights, two differnt sims. One try. He told me that the flyight dynamics are great. If you bounce go around. That's all. Edited February 21, 2015 by indiaciki
indiaciki Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The most common cause of bouncing is flaring too high. It really helps zooming in to a realistic angle of view. i.e. you don't see anything. That's why you have to come down in a pretty high angle with full flaps and flare when you KNOW that you are above the runway. It's scary but the airfields in BOS are extremly wide so it's easy to misjudge your height. And you have to 3 point (exept if you have extreme crosswind) and pull the stick to stall it. If it doesn't work. Give full throttle and go straight to gain speed. Don't climb on a go around. Another Taildragger tutorial 25min Edited February 22, 2015 by indiaciki
LeonMadDog Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 The most important reference speeds you should know are your stall speeds in clean configuration. The second most important reference speeds you should know are your stall speeds with gear extended and full flaps for landing and in a pre-touchdown scenario - just inches off the runway. This will help greatly when landing. Notice I said speeds plural - - not speed. Because these vary significantly depending on your total weight of aircraft, therefore you need to know the range - from lightest to midweight to heaviest. The best way to get these reference speeds is to run trials and test the actual stall speeds. Also, the stall speed that you write down as the official stall speed should be 10% higher than the actual stall speed you experience in controlled test conditions. So if you find it impossible to continue level flight at 137 km/h - - - then you should record that stall speed as 151 km/h. Example: Clean config @ 500 meters - the Beaufighter Mk 21. 1944 LIGHTEST> Empty ammo - no ordinance - 10% fuel - - = 205 km/h MIDWEIGHT>Default full ammo - no ordinance - 70% fuel - - = 225 km/h HEAVIEST > full ammo - Mk13 Torpedo - 100% fuel - - = 245 km/h Example: Full Flaps, Gear Down, inches off runway, - the Beaufighter Mk21, 1944 LIGHTEST> Empty ammo - no ordinance - 10% fuel - - = 170 km/h MIDWEIGHT>Default full ammo - no ordinance - 70% fuel - - = 185 km/h HEAVIEST > full ammo - Mk13 Torpedo - 100% fuel - - = 200 km/h Then as you are on final, you can guess what your weight would be, then with a specific speed in mind you can reach target speeds on final final, expect to lose about 5 km/s through the flare and then be in the ball park to cut engine and float and touchdown. (With or without a bounce or two - - doesnt matter..)
wellenbrecher Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 landings are quite easy once u have them locked in. Key points: have correct speed, flaps and trim, learn how high off the deck u are people should try dcs if u think this is hard Other way around for me. In DCS I get down nice and soft almost ever single time. In BoS I blow hard at landing. Not saying it's wrong or anything, I'm just really bad at landing in this game. Part of it that using rudder to lose speed seems to work so differently (as in, hardly at all IMO) than in other flight sims so I always come in way too fast.
Quax Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) There is no bouncing whithout pilot error. What fix do you want, Blade ? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo2QqDL60I4 Tip: record your landing. At replay you can easily identify your faults, when it did bounce. Most propably you failed touching three point. Edited February 22, 2015 by Quax
Quax Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Just guess how many flying hours these pilots flying warbirds have on any type of aircraft and then ad the hours on warbirds... that's why they rarely bounce. This is me listening to chief (otherwise I wouldn't talk about that). My father was trained flying warbird-like trainers in the 70s. He doesn't fly sims. He flew and landed the 109 F in BOS and the 109 K in DCS. He flew them for the very first time and landed without bouncing at all. he did 2 approaches and go arounds and landed. Two flights, two differnt sims. One try. He told me that the flyight dynamics are great. If you bounce go around. That's all. That´s it. But a few sim pilots think they are already as good flying taildraggers as your father PS: if someone says, it´s the sim´s fault, he never tried with serious training. Edited February 22, 2015 by Quax
Quax Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Part of it that using rudder to lose speed seems to work so differently (as in, hardly at all IMO) than in other flight sims so I always come in way too fast. Sorry, but this doesn´t make any sense. If your speed is too fast, your pitch is too low. Watching guys online, I see at least 90% coming in too fast. I don´t need a speed indication at all. Pitch is speed, as in RL. Edited February 22, 2015 by Quax
-TBC-AeroAce Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 All this talk of reff speeds and such is good to know but balls really. U just need to get a feel for it.............. 3
indiaciki Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 All this talk of reff speeds and such is good to know but balls really. U just need to get a feel for it.............. +1
GP* Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) All this talk of reff speeds and such is good to know but balls really. U just need to get a feel for it.............. I take it you've never flown an aircraft then. Bouncing is due to your sink rate upon contact with the ground. Typically caused by a high flare or, more frequently, coming in too fast and giving up on the flare too soon. This thread won't go anywhere without a track. Happy landings. Edited February 23, 2015 by Prefontaine 1
wtornado Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 At 500m alt just shut the game down and restart it and go get you're favorite beverage while it is loading. Never any stress never any bother just fun. Seeing some people if gaming would stress me this much I would quit gaming there is no pleasure for me stressing while playing. I would take up Yoga. P.S. If gaming continues on this path I just might have to take up Yoga.
avlSteve Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 A bounce normally means you still had enough lift to fly. If you touch down right at stall speed, you won't have enough lift to bounce, no matter how hard you hit. I bounced a cessna 172 on the grass once, back up about 10 feet in the air (instructor said it was about 2 feet, but it felt like 10 to me). Instructor comment on the landing, "Aww, what happened to your flare?"
Reflected Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Not saying that BoS physics are 100% correct, but you might not be landing on 3 points. If you land on your main wheels, the tail snaps down to the ground which instantaneously increases the angle of attack of the wings - and with that, lift.This can result in bouncing as well. Again, it doesn't mean that physics are 100% correct. Edited February 23, 2015 by Reflected 1
Guest deleted@13284 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I followed the 3-point landing system last night and am happy to report that I got my LaGG down in one piece for the first time ever. Stalin himself was moved to tears of joy
=EXPEND=Tripwire Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Well done! Bit more practice and soon it will become second nature.
Guest deleted@13284 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Thank you,however I've probably just jinxed myself for the next dozen or so 'landings'
Yakdriver Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 you are trying to make a soft collision between planet earth and a 2.5 ton 1200 HP moving object. getting things like that "right"... cut yourself some slack. It'll come. it will remain difficult.
Finkeren Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 For me a succesful landing is one where I break nothing on the plane and don't end up in a ground loop at the rollout. Those I've gotten fairly good at, and they propably constitute 95% of my landings. It is a rare occurance not to have any bouncing at all. 1
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 When are the landing models of each plane going to be fixed? BOS landing simulation is ridiculously bouncy. It makes me think that the landing physics from ROF have been imported and with heavier planes they you just bounce all over the place like you have giant balloon tires. When will we see a fix for this? S!Blade<>< Fix it? Who said it was broke? 5
GOAT-ACEOFACES Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The Landing physics are obviously miscalculated.Obviously? Even the 109 on the grass field landed almost flawlessly. If you want me to keep posting more WWII birds landing with no bounce or just one minor bounce I will.So, let me see if I understand you correctly.. Your proof of the landing being.. How did you say it? Obviously miscalculated is based on video of some WWII plane landing without a bounce? If 'a video' is all that is needed as proof.. Than all someone would have to do is produce a video of a WWII plane that does bounce when landing.. Note, not saying the landing code is correct, I am simply pointing out that you have not provided anything that would be considered proof.. Especially in light of the fact so many here can land in BoS without bouncing, which tells me the problem is not the landing code, as much as the guy doing the landing. 2
GP* Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Not saying that BoS physics are 100% correct, but you might not be landing on 3 points. If you land on your main wheels, the tail snaps down to the ground which instantaneously increases the angle of attack of the wings - and with that, lift.This can result in bouncing as well. Again, it doesn't mean that physics are 100% correct. Wheel landings don't equate to a bounce. Wheel landings are perfectly valid.
Quax Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Wheel landings are of course possible, but german pilots have been trained landing three point for two reasons: they obviously judged it as the saver option (no bouncing) and you need about half the landing distance. Read the Steinhoff biography about landings in Sicilia. Germans called wheeler landings "british". Edited February 24, 2015 by Quax
Finkeren Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Germans called wheeler landings "british". Kinda like condoms in the 18th and 19th century were called 'French Articles' in the UK and 'British Articles' in France.
unreasonable Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Kinda like condoms in the 18th and 19th century were called 'French Articles' in the UK and 'British Articles' in France. "French letters" and "capot anglais", IIRC, well into 20th century. Edited February 24, 2015 by unreasonable 1
Finkeren Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 "French letters" and "capot anglais", IIRC, well into 20th century. Alright, my words were directly translated from Danish. Thanks for the clarification
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