Feathered_IV Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 "Technically, such a system is ready, simply create your own objects and put them in the game folder." was said in the Developer Diary 3. Hi SGB. That seems to be one of the things that got dropped somewhere along the way. I can confirm that the game does not do this unfortunately.
Vaxxtx Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 This doesn't resist the hard facts. Modding has been done on IL2, RoF and BoS without mod tools delivered to everyone by the developers.... Many mods (most of them actually...) have still been done without any official mod tool released. BUT....mod tools such as the ones offered by Arma and Total War, have not only increased the participants but made the mods easier to make as well as easier to use. This includes using mod packs for online or offline in order to NOT divide a community. Switching between packs or back to vanilla with 2 buttons. The community that is involved in a game (mods, forums, squads, co op, etc) and has options is much stronger than a community that just participates in forum discussions. How does Arma have sooooo many full MP servers with so many mods? How come Total War Attila had mods released the day it came out (and still pumping out quality ones daily), yet still has a healthy online player base? These companies know to get their communities involved and are not afraid of some "dumb user" making certain aspects better than they could have whether it be due to talent or time. I don't think 777/1c thinks that way. Aside from this going against everything that "IL2" stood for if it does not change I feel BoS/BoM will be a short lived game if they keep telling the community how they should play this game.
wellenbrecher Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 You shouldn't mention Total War as a good example for modding. The turn that series took in terms of mods is a sad, sad story of lies and greed.
Vaxxtx Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 You shouldn't mention Total War as a good example for modding. The turn that series took in terms of mods is a sad, sad story of lies and greed. I disagree. As far as greed for DLC content, etc, its perspective. Some can see greed, some see a good business model. Are you talking about things like Blood and Gore DLC? I assume so? As far as mods go, http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/ATTILA_Assembly_Kit <---- not sure how those tools are "sad". Not sure how any of that effects "modders" in a negative way. Not to mention the total conversion mods like the WWI mod for Empire/Napoleon, the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2 etc, etc .... My point still stands. More mod support, longer shelf life, more community involvement, so on and so forth... 2
Rama Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 BUT....mod tools such as .../... I mostly agree with what you said (including the benefit of modding, player options, etc...), .... and will of course never pretend mod tools don't help for modding, this would be totally stupid. I just object to those telling "modding is dead", that no, restricted mod access and unavailability of modding tools don't stop some peoples to mod, as the history of modding prove it in the Il2, RoF and BoS game. But as I allready say, I'm 100% for a "mods on" mode and think it's a bad move for the dev not to include it in the game.
wellenbrecher Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Completely off-topic so I'll make it short and quick: I disagree. As far as greed for DLC content, etc, its perspective. Some can see greed, some see a good business model. Are you talking about things like Blood and Gore DLC? I assume so? As far as mods go, http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/ATTILA_Assembly_Kit <---- not sure how those tools are "sad". Not sure how any of that effects "modders" in a negative way. Not to mention the total conversion mods like the WWI mod for Empire/Napoleon, the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2 etc, etc .... My point still stands. More mod support, longer shelf life, more community involvement, so on and so forth... The tools are a result of the massive backlash after they closed down the system with the engine in Empire. With Empire, Napoleon and Shogun 2 on release their goal was clearly to stamp out mods and sell DLC instead. For years people were promised tools and support and whatnot and nothing happened, instead the system was closed more and more. They finally saw reason when Shogun 2's DLC cycle was done with and released the tools to garner positive PR prior to announcing Rome 2. Dunno if you ever played and modded (or took part in the modding scene) prior to Empire. It was a whole different ball-park. That's what I mean with "sad".
Vaxxtx Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Rama, on 21 Feb 2015 - 09:34, said: I mostly agree with what you said (including the benefit of modding, player options, etc...), .... and will of course never pretend mod tools don't help for modding, this would be totally stupid. I just object to those telling "modding is dead", that no, restricted mod access and unavailability of modding tools don't stop some peoples to mod, as the history of modding prove it in the Il2, RoF and BoS game. But as I allready say, If 100% for a "mods on" mode and think it's a bad move for the dev not to include it in the game. I agree 100% for once on this board with you. I was not disagreeing with your post at all, just adding to it. wellenbrecher, on 21 Feb 2015 - 09:47, said: Completely off-topic so I'll make it short and quick: The tools are a result of the massive backlash after they closed down the system with the engine in Empire. With Empire, Napoleon and Shogun 2 on release their goal was clearly to stamp out mods and sell DLC instead. For years people were promised tools and support and whatnot and nothing happened, instead the system was closed more and more. They finally saw reason when Shogun 2's DLC cycle was done with and released the tools to garner positive PR prior to announcing Rome 2. Dunno if you ever played and modded (or took part in the modding scene) prior to Empire. It was a whole different ball-park. That's what I mean with "sad". So, as in right now present day, the TW series IS a good example of mod support, as I clearly pointed out with a link to the tools and support from CA. And by all accounts they saw a positive after trying to quell it. Backlash? Community feedback? Realizing they were wrong and fixing it? I don't care how it happened its great now with mod support. Maybe BoS will see the same move that TW made and realize the lack of options and lack of community support is bad. Maybe... Edited February 21, 2015 by Vaxxtx
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) How does Arma have sooooo many full MP servers with so many mods?Just checking now, ARMA 3 has something like 4000 servers and so many players online it can't be counted. Games like that can afford to have mods RoF has one server going with 25 players on it (and nobody playing Expert, supporting my point above that RoF MP is dead) BoS this morning had about 40+ on one server and maybe 8 on another And this is Saturday noon prime time game hour! Flight sims absolutely don't have the player base to afford being divided up by mods and even though it's possible to have Mods-On servers in RoF there are currently none running So as far as online play is concerned, modding is a no-go Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
71st_AH_Hooves Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Thtys pretty short sighted. The Reason ArmA has so many people is because there is a mod for everyones liking. MODS drive higher numbers. And you cant use RoF as an example its nearly a completely different genre.
ST_ami7b5 Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) .. RoF has one server going with 25 players on it (and nobody playing Expert, supporting my point above that RoF MP is dead) .. You are quite out of reality. Expert Syndicate server has 70+ players every Sunday during their vintage missions... RoF MP is far from dead. Edited February 21, 2015 by ST_ami7b5
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) You are quite out of reality. Expert Syndicate server has 70+ players every Sunday during their vintage missions... RoF MP is far from dead. Yes but only on Sunday. Syn was my favorite server and it used to be full all the time. But now it seems it only runs once / weekThtys pretty short sighted. The Reason ArmA has so many people is because there is a mod for everyones liking. MODS drive higher numbers. And you cant use RoF as an example its nearly a completely different genre.ARMA has so many players because:- It doesn't require a joystick - There's not much of a learning curve. - Players can get online for FPS games in short sessions. I can't tell how many servers use mods so there's no way to answer the question. Mods don't help RoF attract players online. There are no servers for it running mods so apparently nobody wants to use them in MP The "mods" that are being used online are the officially adopted ones. Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
Livai Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Hi SGB. That seems to be one of the things that got dropped somewhere along the way. I can confirm that the game does not do this unfortunately. Sad, if we dont get offical a mods-on feature the same that RoF had like it was told inside the Developer Diary before Early Access . The only way that is left is to go the unoffical way. And this way is not good for this product.
dburne Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) RoF has one server going with 25 players on it (and nobody playing Expert, supporting my point above that RoF MP is dead) I suspect there probably are a lot of MP ROF guys that might tend to disagree with that statement, all indications I have seen on the ROF forum, MP is a thriving community for it. Granted, WWI does not attract near the numbers that WWII does. Considering that, I would say it is doing quite well. Considering ROF is still thriving ( with a nice update recently), after 5+ years, and they say the sp career mode is just not played that much, I would think MP would certainly be a contributor to it's success - yes, even with MODS ON available should one choose. I certainly would not say MP is dead in ROF! Not quite sure why you would be so against having MODS on or off for BOS... At least if the option is available, players can make a choice in the matter, whether they want to run with them or not. But I guess you can take comfort in the fact, the developers have already said BOS will NOT have a mods on mode. Edited February 21, 2015 by dburne
Vaxxtx Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Yes but only on Sunday. Syn was my favorite server and it used to be full all the time. But now it seems it only runs once / week ARMA has so many players because: - It doesn't require a joystick - There's not much of a learning curve. - Players can get online for FPS games in short sessions. I can't tell how many servers use mods so there's no way to answer the question. Mods don't help RoF attract players online. There are no servers for it running mods so apparently nobody wants to use them in MP The "mods" that are being used online are the officially adopted ones. Depending on the mod/squad/type of game running ARMA can have a large learning curve. Especially using the TARS equivalent etc. Also some squads run in depth mods and Co op missions that can last a few hours at least. ALSO...I know quite a few people who use joysticks, and many use trackir for infantry and aicraft. Also, RoF/BoS does not require a joystick, either. Nor does either have a high learning curve. Not sure what you are on about there... Thanks for proving the point though....you know how mod support can customize a game to cater to all types from the super hardcore to the casual shoot em type. Oh and to keep the servers full. RoF mod support was a joke, starting with the master server and approval BS. Also considering the lower interest in WWI aviation compared to WWII and so on, its also not a surprise the list of mods is so small. So point being having mod support means you can use them....or not. Having no mod support means once again, less options, and once again the devs telling you how YOU should play.
Livai Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 But I guess you can take comfort in the fact, the developers have already said BOS will NOT have a mods on mode. The same comfort like with the Custom Graphic Settings. Hey wait a second this Custom Graphic Settings were never popular. Maybe thats the point why this or a another feature from RoF got dropped somewhere along the way. Maybe it was too much from everything.
71st_AH_Mastiff Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Didn't Jason say he would even have a special down load section for the mod'ers? I really think some one pulled the trigger to soon on saying there wouldn't be mods. As I remember Jason and Albert stated we have the same benefits for moding..as in ROF.. Edited February 21, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff
Jason_Williams Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Loft apparently changed his mind at some point. Nothing I can do unfortunately. My partners know my position on this topic. Jason 4
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Also, RoF/BoS does not require a joystick, either. Nor does either have a high learning curve.I'm' talking about flight sims in general. Yes, RoF just implemented mouse control. But the point is FPS games don't require extra or expensive hardware to run. Using the TrackIR in ARMA is just awesome though.And most would agree flight sims have a steep learning curve Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Not quite sure why you would be so against having MODS on or off for BOS... At least if the option is available, players can make a choice in the matter, whether they want to run with them or not. I'm not really against having a Mods mode. Just pointing out in RoF that nobody uses Mods-On in multiplayer.
IRRE_Belmont Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Loft apparently changed his mind at some point. Nothing I can do unfortunately. My partners know my position on this topic. Jason Can't you do something about it ? Like buying him a puppy or something?
Brano Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 ARMA has so many players because: - It doesn't require a joystick - There's not much of a learning curve. - Players can get online for FPS games in short sessions. I will just add to this,that game which sells maybe million copies can afford to allow for moding possibilities. Flight sims/games are such niche market that it is absolutly understandable for me that devs keep future additions under their control.Even in old sturm noone touched BoB era because devs reserved it for their sequel SoW/CloD.
Jason_Williams Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Can't you do something about it ? Like buying him a puppy or something? Buying a puppy would work on me, but not him. Cigarettes might work though. I'll give that a try. :-) Jason
IRRE_Belmont Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Buying a puppy would work on me, but not him. Cigarettes might work though. I'll give that a try. :-) Jason *throws cigarettes at the screen*
von_Greiff Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 ...why not wait a see how things develop, go with the flow! Did ol' IL2 came with mods? yours v.Greiff
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I suspect there probably are a lot of MP ROF guys that might tend to disagree with that statement, all indications I have seen on the ROF forum, MP is a thriving community for it. You know people talk on forums way more than they play, right? ;-) Here's the participation right now in RoF on prime time game hour Saturday afternoon. Doesn't look thriving to me... So point being having mod support means you can use them....or not. Having no mod support means once again, less options, and once again the devs telling you how YOU should play. This is how many people are choosing to play online with Mods-On in RoF Clearly the reason there are not more Mods-On servers in RoF is that everyone realizes that the small player base does not need to be divided up with Mods. And for comparison here's BoS. IMO this isn't enough players to support a Mods-On mode online either Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
Mikey Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 no mods? mods are the only reason i continue to play rof singleplayer...would be a shame if it will be difficult/impossible to mod il2bos
Livai Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Clearly the reason there are not more Mods-On servers in RoF is that everyone realizes that the small player base does not need to be divided up with Mods. On a Mods-On Server you never known what mods the others use. Thats the point why many not choose a Mods-On Server if you want to play online. If all players need the same mod on this Mod-On Server thats a whole different story. With mods you enjoy more offline gaming. You cant compare RoF vs BoS Modding. BoS is WWII. Is like day and night. Build your own offline Campaign with own plane skins and mods that you enjoy thats how I enjoy RoF and I wanted to enjoy BoS the same way with the same fun that I had with RoF.
Vaxxtx Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 You know people talk on forums way more than they play, right? ;-) Here's the participation right now in RoF on prime time game hour Saturday afternoon. Doesn't look thriving to me... This is how many people are choosing to play online with Mods-On in RoF Clearly the reason there are not more Mods-On servers in RoF is that everyone realizes that the small player base does not need to be divided up with Mods. And for comparison here's BoS. IMO this isn't enough players to support a Mods-On mode online either This is not RoF is it? Want to see how many people play IL246 with mods? How about Arma? How about CLoD? How about DCS? I can keep going. Point is this isn't RoF. And it isn't Arma. Mods off is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.
Urra Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 This is not RoF is it? Want to see how many people play IL246 with mods? How about Arma? How about CLoD? How about DCS? I can keep going. Point is this isn't RoF. And it isn't Arma. Mods off is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. the 1.009 update should add quite a bit of steam to this game..., hopefully the door will remain at least a little open, for the chance that the mods addition can make it back in a year down the road.
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) This is not RoF is it? Want to see how many people play IL246 with mods? How about Arma? How about CLoD? How about DCS? I can keep going. Point is this isn't RoF. And it isn't Arma. Mods off is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. IL1946 and CoD are games which are no longer officially supported and therefore need Mods. RoF is relevant for comparison because it's about the only other developer supported combat flight sim there is on the market today. There's nothing in RoF to prevent people from playing online with Mods On, they just choose not to. Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
dburne Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 You know people talk on forums way more than they play, right? ;-) Ok whatever you say I guess, never realized ROF was dead. Not sure 777 realizes that either. Let's hope better for BOS shall we? There's nothing in RoF to prevent people from playing online with Mods On, they just choose not to. Of course that does not even take into account, the MODS that were developed, used in MODS ON mode, became very popular as they were very good, and since been added into the official product...
Livai Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 RoF is relevant for comparison because it's about the only other developer supported combat flight sim there is on the market today. You forget DSC World and War Thunder for the comparison. For DSC World are mods like a HDR Mod, some enhanced Terrain mods..................... War Thunder released a Content Development Kit the same Tools that the Devs use to create Content for the game. And both are free to play like the RoF Demo Version and moddable. Not sure if RoF Demo Version had the Mods-On feature, too.
LizLemon Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 IL1946 and CoD are games which are no longer officially supported and therefore need Mods. RoF is relevant for comparison because it's about the only other developer supported combat flight sim there is on the market today. There's nothing in RoF to prevent people from playing online with Mods On, they just choose not to. And there are plenty of currently supported games that do have vibrant mod communities. No games need mods, but every game benefits from supporting modding. You forget DSC World and War Thunder for the comparison. For DSC World are mods like a HDR Mod, some enhanced Terrain mods..................... War Thunder released a Content Development Kit the same Tools that the Devs use to create Content for the game. And both are free to play like the RoF Demo Version and moddable. Not sure if RoF Demo Version had the Mods-On feature, too. This too. Kinda ridiculous that something like WT gives better support to modders then a follow on to the il2 series. 1
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Ok whatever you say I guess, never realized ROF was dead. Not sure 777 realizes that either. Let's hope better for BOS shall we? Of course that does not even take into account, the MODS that were developed, used in MODS ON mode, became very popular as they were very good, and since been added into the official product... I'm not saying RoF itself is dead just that it's MP game attendance is sparse. You forget DSC World and War Thunder for the comparison. For DSC World are mods like a HDR Mod, some enhanced Terrain mods..................... War Thunder released a Content Development Kit the same Tools that the Devs use to create Content for the game. And both are free to play like the RoF Demo Version and moddable. Not sure if RoF Demo Version had the Mods-On feature, too. Aw everyone knows War Thunder isn't a "sim" right? There's probably 800,000 people playing it online today anyways. And DCS is a different type of product than BoS/RoF. It's servers aren't split into mods on and off in any case. It's sparsely attended too so it couldn't afford being split up. Edited February 21, 2015 by SharpeXB
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 On a Mods-On Server you never known what mods the others use. Thats the point why many not choose a Mods-On Server if you want to play online. If all players need the same mod on this Mod-On Server thats a whole different story. In RoF it's not just that many people fly Mods Off online. It's nearly everyone. Ok there are 2 people apparently using mods online today. Based on that, if there was a Mods On mode online for BoS it's likely nobody would be using it.
dburne Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I'm not saying RoF itself is dead just that it's MP game attendance is sparse. Aw everyone knows War Thunder isn't a "sim" right? There's probably 800,000 people playing it online today anyways. And DCS is a different type of product than BoS/RoF. It's servers aren't split into mods on and off in any case. It's sparsely attended too so it couldn't afford being split up. So War Thunder is not a sim.m I don't have it but pretty sure I read it has a sim mode. DCS is just a different type of product. Not a sim. Hmm, pretty sure DCS has both a sim and a game mode. Ok then... You keep arguing for no mods on mode in BOS, but yet that is what you are getting. And you keep arguing as if MODS ON option is only a multi player thing?? So what if not a lot of MP guys would use it, it is there as an option. An option many SP guys can use to create some mods that might end up being great. And again, some good mods came for ROF from having the tools and the option, that got implemented in the product itself, without needing to fly with MODS ON. I just can not understand why you would be against that as an option? Option being the key word. Edited February 21, 2015 by dburne
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 And you keep arguing as if MODS ON option is only a multi player thing?? In RoF the Mods setting really only affects multiplayer in that there can be servers with it on or off. The mod setting makes no difference in SP gameplay in terms of career achievements or points.
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 So War Thunder is not a sim.m I don't have it but pretty sure I read it has a sim mode. DCS is just a different type of product. Not a sim. Hmm, pretty sure DCS has both a sim and a game mode. Why don't you have War Thunder? Everyone has it. It's free. I'm just giving WT a hard time... Ok we can stretch the definition of sim and put WT on one end of the spectrum and DCS on th other. In my definition DCS is mostly a study sim, not an air combat sim. Flaming Cliffs is an air combat sim like BoS.
Yakdriver Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 Loft apparently changed his mind at some point. Nothing I can do unfortunately. My partners know my position on this topic. Jason would you mind asking him to inform the public at the very least? not justify with walls of text or argue, but, like, inform us that a big subject will be tackled in a different manner because of reason 1,2,3... basta. That would be way cool.
SharpeXB Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I don't play WT either but I still "own" it.
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