Unlock button and future planes

[Solmyr]

Hey all, hello dev team,

 

Please could you tell us how the unlocking thing is gonna function exactly ?

 

If I unlock right now, and if some new planes (God I hope !) are released later, and those planes have locked stuff (I don't talk about skins of course), will it be unlocked automatically ?

 

OR

 

If I keep my unlock magic red button inviolate, and I deflower it AFTER such a release, will all the planes' stuff be unlocked or only those actual ? 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Solmyr, please understand, that though your question is valid, it's kind of wasted. You might as well ask yourself, it's sunny now but will it rain on me if I go for a walk. My advice is enjoy what you have and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

 

Chief

[ST_ami7b5]

It is a valid question Chief.

 

I have already unlocked everything, so I don't need the red button NOW.

BUT.

If there are some new planes/theatres coming in near future with ulnocks again, I would gladly use that (unused) button then.

[LizLemon]

I would hope that they have learned their lesson and don't try unlocks again.

[ST_ami7b5]

That would surely be the best solution

[Solmyr]

 

 

You might as well ask yourself, it's sunny now but will it rain on me if I go for a walk.

 

And do you never ask yourself : "Should I pick an umbrella ?"

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

And do you never ask yourself : "Should I pick an umbrella ?"

 

Nope ... check the weather report and dress accordingly before I go hunting .... and so is waiting if you choose to do so.

 

Chief

[Solmyr]

Well, let's say I don't have weather reports, and that ... the question doesn't cost a lot, neither to ask, nor to answer.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Solmyr

[Solmyr]

Little up for an official answer please ?

[oneeyeddog]

My guess would be that the unlock button will work to unlock the mods on future Aircraft or, more likely,  those AC will just arrive mods unlocked. I also think that some of the skins of these future AC will have to be unlocked thru a campaign progression. 

[ST_ami7b5]

Little up for an official answer please ?

+1

[Bearcat]

That door needs to be shut locked and barricaded and anyone who even dreams of reopening it needs to be awakened and soundly slapped into unconsciousness....

[Solmyr]

That door needs to be shut locked and barricaded and anyone who even dreams of reopening it needs to be awakened and soundly slapped into unconsciousness....

 

I take it for a "ok, there will not be any unlocks anymore" ?.. 

[Bearcat]

No not at all... That is just my opinion...

[Feathered_IV]

It would seem like a waste of development time to continue with such an unpopular feature.

[No601_Swallow]

Oh such angst about a game mechanic (for games) which a Dev made the mistake of applying to a sim.

 

Obviously, it didn't work, and obvioulsy I'm glad for the unlocks being freed up at least for "premium players".

 

But look - there is something to talk about here.

 

There's a legitimate debate to be had in game design (I've read online articles about it, so I must be an expert) about whether it's justifiable to force players to "complete a level" before they have access to the next part of the game. After all, if someone's paid the money, they've paid for all of the game, haven't they? I remember thinking how ingenious it was for GTA 3 (at least I think it was GTA3, unless I'm getting my GTAs mixed up) to have its map on three islands - so you had to "earn" the right to open up the next island in the map. There's a debate to be had about how if I paid for a game with all three islands, why can't I have instant access to all that I paid for? Why do I have to defeat Boss #3 in order to pregress to level 12, when I bought the game? I've already paid for level 12!! W.T.F.? But this seems to describe most games ever. There's always some sort of "gateway". Why?

 

Now that's a legitimate argument to make. Game designers would argue that you're buying some sort of "experience" that's shaped by the writers and level designers,etc, so they have to "channel" (or control) the content a player has access to. Gamers, on the other hand, might argue that they've bought a big playbox and since they've paid for it, why would you make me jump through hoops before I get the shotgun/portal device/BFG/etc.

 

It's an interesting argument.

 

I don't think you can blame the BoS devs for trying a bit of game design in a sim. I'm glad the skins are still unlockable. If online you see a plane with an unusual skin, you (or at least me!) might think, "Ah, kudos! That bloke's put some time in!" or something similar.

 

And to be honest, when the next traunch of aeroplanes come (surely to include a lendlease Hurricane!), I hope the skins at least will still be "achievements" to be earned in the normal "gaming" way.

 

Gulp...

Edited February 12, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[wellenbrecher]

No, he didn't necessary put any time nor any effort in it. There's a chance that he had the autopilot do it for him. 

Or gamed the unlock system some other way.

[Bearcat]

Oh such angst about a game mechanic (for games) which a Dev made the mistake of applying to a sim.

Obviously, it didn't work, and obvioulsy I'm glad for the unlocks being freed up at least for "premium players".

But look - there is something to talk about here.

There's a legitimate debate to be had in game design (I've read online articles about it, so I must be an expert) about whether it's justifiable to force players to "complete a level" before they have access to the next part of the game. After all, if someone's paid the money, they've paid for all of the game, haven't they? I remember thinking how ingenious it was for GTA 3 (at least I think it was GTA3, unless I'm getting my GTAs mixed up) to have its map on three islands - so you had to "earn" the right to open up the next island in the map. There's a debate to be had about how if I paid for a game with all three islands, why can't I have instant access to all that I paid for? Why do I have to defeat Boss #3 in order to pregress to level 12, when I bought the game? I've already paid for level 12!! W.T.F.? But this seems to describe most games ever. There's always some sort of "gateway". Why?

 

Now that's a legitimate argument to make. Game designers would argue that you're buying some sort of "experience" that's shaped by the writers and level designers,etc, so they have to "channel" (or control) the content a player has access to. Gamers, on the other hand, might argue that they've bought a big playbox and since they've paid for it, why would you make me jump through hoops before I get the shotgun/portal device/BFG/etc. It's an interesting argument.

I don't think you can blame the BoS devs for trying a bit of game design in a sim. I'm glad the skins are still unlockable. If online you see a plane with an unusual skin, you (or at least me!) might think, "Ah, kudos! That bloke's put some time in!" or something similar.

 

And to be honest, when the next traunch of aeroplanes come (surely to include a lendlease Hurricane!), I hope the skins at least will still be "achievements" to be earned in the normal "gaming" way.

Gulp...

 

 

That is all fine for things like GTA... but for a flight sim..the way to make it appeal to everyone is to make it scalable.. and then they could host a server that catered to those settings.. Once the ME & DServer are released like in IL2 there will probably be folks flying on less than fulls witch settings.. but I don't think there will be too many servers on novice settings..

 

I am hoping we are past that whole thing once and for all... I would think so all things considered. I'd be surprised if we weren't.

 

The difference is that with flight sims the reward is getting better at the sim...  or it should be...  I don't mind the skins being locked especially now that we can use custom ones...

[Trooper117]

I take it for a "ok, there will not be any unlocks anymore" ?.. 

 

As they have not given any info on that score you had better keep an open mind on that one.

[Felix58]

Now the thread has deviated slightly to game design.  A fascinating topic in its own right.  Unlocks are hardly a new component in gaming.  A recent article that compared Euro Truck Simulator 2 with The Crew speaks to the issues presented here.  Recommend you have a read -

 

http://www.twinfinite.net/2014/12/30/crew-fails-euro-truck-simulator-2-succeeds/

 

On unlocks/campaigns, I daresay they could be more interesting for players new to the genre (SP) rather than "old salts" who are probably going to focus their attention on-line.

 

As mentioned previously, once the mission editor is released I'm sure we will get some interesting campaigns that will have junctions for success or failure, in effect unlocks.

[Yakdriver]

But look - there is something to talk about here.

 

 I remember thinking how ingenious it was for GTA 3 (at least I think it was GTA3, unless I'm getting my GTAs mixed up) to have its map on three islands - so you had to "earn" the right to open up the next island in the map. There's a debate to be had about how if I paid for a game with all three islands, why can't I have instant access to all that I paid for? Why do I have to defeat Boss #3 in order to pregress to level 12, when I bought the game? I've already paid for level 12!! W.T.F.? But this seems to describe most games ever. There's always some sort of "gateway". Why?

 

Now that's a legitimate argument to make. Game designers would argue that you're buying some sort of "experience" that's shaped by the writers and level designers,etc, so they have to "channel" (or control) the content a player has access to. Gamers, on the other hand, might argue that they've bought a big playbox and since they've paid for it, why would you make me jump through hoops before I get the shotgun/portal device/BFG/etc.

 

It's an interesting argument.

 

I don't think you can blame the BoS devs for trying a bit of game design in a sim. I'm glad the skins are still unlockable. If online you see a plane with an unusual skin, you (or at least me!) might think, "Ah, kudos! That bloke's put some time in!" or something similar.

 

 

I was in the same position about GTA, and especially about IV [loved san andreas!] and how i could not move treely about town...

 

-There was a "big scare" and the bridges had to be shut...

-A big WHAT?

-Terrorists! Fracking Terrorists!

 

 

okay, it was a bummer. sure was.

But i make a difference between my Flight simulation, which i consider to be a large sandbox that i can play in as i wish - see FSX, and on the other hand have a Game that i play, and that has an intricate, complex, somewhat linear storyline such as GTA or Mafia_2

 

GTA is a Game that grabs you by the hand, and with a lot of controverial elements [hookers] and a TON of style [language, shootouts with cops...being a Pimp, breaking into homes... stealing and delivering Cars... what have you] - takes you through a fictional story, like a Movie.

Why not spread out the Movie on all 3 islands at the same time?

I will speculate and say that the movie makers wanted you to learn the environment, and have fun explore your local community first - learning safe places, sniping spots, ... making sure they did not waste their effort in the map creation.

Yes, the big guns are only to be found later on in the story. Yes, wearing the right clothes in some situations can save your beef from the rival Gang. Yes, you fought with the tools at hand - BB bat, Glock, knife...

 

How are these aspects in a CFS?

 

Weapons:

You train on the Cannon and you get to drop practice Bombs. You are being explained what Rockets are, and get to launch a few of them in gunnery school. You know and are able to use all the Weapons.

So the whole Guns locked mechanism... kinda iffy.

[and no, you do not get to choose your weapons load - the weapons are built-in, the 37mm sits virtually IN the engine - and no, the mechanics can not swap that thing out for a 20mm just because you want that, one hour before the flight...]

 

Clothing:

Well obviously, the camouflage aspect is important, so if your career takes place over a snow map... it is criitical to dress up in green and black, or in Grey tones. It increases the chance to be found by your peers when the enemy has shot you down because he saw your green against the white. Green and black can be seen much better on rescue missions. So yea, gimme a default green and Black LaGG.

 

I'm glad the skins are still unlockable. If online you see a plane with an unusual skin, you (or at least me!) might think, "Ah, kudos! That bloke's put some time in!" or something similar.

 

indeed. to me it tells me that this fella might be somewhat competent, has endurance and a passion for aviation. I gather one does not meet a lot of imaptient little basterds with the last skin on an expert server.

If skins are achievements, let the default skin make sense for the map it is flown on. at least. please. dont be an ass and put me in a green plane on a white map. Please...

 

Storyline on Map:

 

 

I don't think you can blame the BoS devs for trying a bit of game design in a sim.

Where GTA is supposed to take you on a movie-like trip and achieved this more or less, BoS was scheduled to do that too. But No way in hell is that being achieved. [compare their ambitions to the actual campaign results]

Same (few) enemies.

Same (few) mission types.

Same (completely anonymous, senseless Pilot with no story whatsoever)

Same (sole) environment with little in the way of places, weather, conditions,...

If Game Design is done, it is done through the Player's Campaign - and that has me personally somewhat unimpressed.

 

They sold me the experience of a Stalingrad pilot, yet didn't take me on a Stalingrad Trip, and didn't give me the sandbox i was used and accustomed to.

that's a lot to digest.

 

[Solmyr]

Oh such angst about a game mechanic (for games) which a Dev made the mistake of applying to a sim.

 

Obviously, it didn't work, and obvioulsy I'm glad for the unlocks being freed up at least for "premium players".

 

But look - there is something to talk about here.

 

There's a legitimate debate to be had in game design (I've read online articles about it, so I must be an expert) about whether it's justifiable to force players to "complete a level" before they have access to the next part of the game. After all, if someone's paid the money, they've paid for all of the game, haven't they? I remember thinking how ingenious it was for GTA 3 (at least I think it was GTA3, unless I'm getting my GTAs mixed up) to have its map on three islands - so you had to "earn" the right to open up the next island in the map. There's a debate to be had about how if I paid for a game with all three islands, why can't I have instant access to all that I paid for? Why do I have to defeat Boss #3 in order to pregress to level 12, when I bought the game? I've already paid for level 12!! W.T.F.? But this seems to describe most games ever. There's always some sort of "gateway". Why?

 

Now that's a legitimate argument to make. Game designers would argue that you're buying some sort of "experience" that's shaped by the writers and level designers,etc, so they have to "channel" (or control) the content a player has access to. Gamers, on the other hand, might argue that they've bought a big playbox and since they've paid for it, why would you make me jump through hoops before I get the shotgun/portal device/BFG/etc.

 

It's an interesting argument.

 

I don't think you can blame the BoS devs for trying a bit of game design in a sim. I'm glad the skins are still unlockable. If online you see a plane with an unusual skin, you (or at least me!) might think, "Ah, kudos! That bloke's put some time in!" or something similar.

 

And to be honest, when the next traunch of aeroplanes come (surely to include a lendlease Hurricane!), I hope the skins at least will still be "achievements" to be earned in the normal "gaming" way.

 

Gulp...

 

It's totally off-topic, read my OP or not, but please don't start an umpteenth discussion about something that's behind us yet. My question isn't about any unlock legetimacy.

And on a side note, my opinion would be, like Bearcat said, that a warbird SIM isn't similar or comparable to a GTA thing.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Solmyr

[Jaws2002]

The unlock didn't go away and I doubt they will. Part of the stuff  was unlocked for part of the players (those who paid close to 100 dollars for it). How is that taken as " the unlocks are gone"? They are not and I'm sure future releases will still have some type of unlocks.

   This move released some pressure off the developers, but in the same time opened the gate for pay to win micro transactions.

And reading some of the posts made by Loft in the Russian forum, the mentality behind the unlocks didn't change one bit.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Jaws2002

[pencon]

I don't know why they just can't admit the unlocks are a bad idea . I am happy the weapons are available , but I really am getting tired of the paint schemes on the Russian planes , of which none sre unlocked . Some really cool schemes are available , but I really don't want to drone through weeks of endless boredom to get them .If there are going to be unlocks for the clour schemes , they should at least make them earnable in multiplayer .

Edited February 12, 2015 by pencon

[Jaws2002]

I don't know why they just can't admit the unlocks are a bad idea . I am happy the weapons are available , but I really am getting tired of the paint schemes on the Russian planes , of which none sre unlocked . Some really cool schemes are available , but I really don't want to drone through weeks of endless boredom to get them .If there are going to be unlocks for the clour schemes , they should at least make them earnable in multiplayer .

 

 

They still don't think unlocks are a bad idea. They think we are too old for games and can't adapt to "new things". They still see the community as the problem, not the game, or their way to put it together.

 

I have no hopes to see this game becoming a honest flight sim, as long as they try to make "call of duty with planes". I have no problem with developers making the game they think will sell, as long as they don't try to take a the customers for an entirely different genre for a ride.  

 

Posted in the   Russian Forum

 

 

Q - In this case, you get to do the product is not for the end user and for the investor.

You have the ability to monitor how many people are playing the campaign, how much / how often played on online servers, etc.

But this is a sample-based actions, the possibility that you have already provided.

The fundamental desire of the investor, developer and user one - an interesting and popular product.

Why then not resort to well-formulated polls?

You will have more information on what you should spend resources and what not, and users will have confidence in ownership, and fewer questions about the future.

For example, "Why did not the MiG monkey?"

Loft A - Because: Genre stagnating because of the community of players. It does not quite understand simple things.

1) The game of their dreams is not technically possible

2) growth capabilities of the computer leads to complication primarily content. Ie its cost grows exponentially

3) Genre is not popular (complex, high barrier to entry), so that a smaller number of participants shall bear the costs for more (if the game itself was easier and more popular than the cost per participant would be smaller)

4) If you make a game based on the wishes of the core community it will not be interesting to anyone else because of the high expert participants (community does not like the Cubs and believes that if someone have to learn it and forget how they learned to do)

5) Age of players is high and therefore they do not like new modernized technology, social networking - shit, Like it means humbled, praising the author zapadlo (standards in the men's team, we are not women) - so what is trash and simulators know anyone unknown.

6) "I do not have to," "History should not be there with the money", "real guys are doing everything for the soul" - so smart, educated people do not want to work on such games, because I always slop and criticism under dubious prospects. find an employee to work for the simulator is almost impossible.

 

And yes, we are looking statistics. And she says that in the polls negligible part of people who do not express any opinion but also themselves argue. Ambush genre that unlike other genres there is no imagination. He is copying reality. So there is no question whatsoever. Everyone knows what color the tree and the sky, every, every day is watching. And as I wrote above is not possible to copy the reality at this level of civilization, which means that in this genre will never be an understanding between the developer and the user. 

An interesting and popular product is not compatible with a joystick. But you're never going to believe this is not because it violates your view of the world. Genre now may not be popular, joysticks removed from stores, they are not sold, they are not interesting. No joysticks = no players.

And then the polls. I do not know how to explain it to you, it's hard. In a genre there is no demand, we do it because we are interested in, not because there is a demand. If we will meet the demand it will be a different game (they already have). We know almost 100% of your answers to these questions are obvious, as the genre about the obvious. It makes no sense for you to test dragons or elves. At a certain form of a question the answer is 100% predictable.

You just do not want to understand what it is all ass (live in illusions and myths that IL-2 was mega popular, etc.).

Refuse to understand that we are only 30% of cases do not want to do something, and 70% can not, even if we want to. Simulators in the world a little because they are very complex (much more difficult all the games), but the poor (for scientific work does not pay a lot), but not because no one knows what to do.

 

I know, I know, I agree with you. Everything has to be otherwise, this is not right, etc. But all that. There StarSitizen example, is a good example. Sometimes tempted. Tell you "we make the dream", and carry you all what you want to hear all your fantasies. People will pay, and do it at a certain speed, where the output of the game will be someday, etc. This is the only way to play the dream, do not take money from investors and take them directly to the community and then it is logical to do it Wishlist, they pay for them. BUT, the money in advance. Oleg tried to DCS to do it. His name, etc. unlike us, we are one, and what happened? They have not collected anything actually. money that they have collected enough for a few planes. Therefore, no one satisfied polls, because the answers are obvious, one dream at all. But it is quite muddled. Need some something completely different approach, which we have not yet invented.

 

 

 

Q -Albert, what's heard about the addition of new types of missions in the off campaign is in the plans?

 

Loft A - It is believed that the game is now suffering not because of the campaign, etc.

Do not like it (not interested) certain circle, an important but does not define the survival of the project.

The problem is the content. Aircraft are very complex and time-consuming because and as a result expensive and ultimately they are few.

Ie corny project is not attractive to the buyer.

I am inclined to this opinion, and I think that first of all you need to correct the problem with the content, and then with the filling.

Unfortunately we are not so much involved in all the same people, so there will be a choice depth vs width.

It is important parameters for different levels of the community, the kernel is confident that the depth of the orbit sure that the width. What we do not deliver, we make a mistake, so be dissatisfied.

So now those who have engaged in a campaign are engaged in other works.

I still can not imagine when they are released.

Ideally, I would have shifted the work on the kernel itself, because he needs to. But here, first you need to create tools (they already have) and documents (they are not).

There are precedents in the past 2 years ROF campaign have improved and we are not members of the community.

I do not know whether it will come with silt. If we plan to work faster and these guys will have some free time, take care of the templates missions.

There are many ideas and opportunities and, in general, too much.

Zeus example only touched QM and not being biased yet can tell you that it is possible there is darkness, but it is work.

 

 

Q - Unsubscribe at jambs campaign just do not want to hope grosspatche will either be a complete change of an existing campaign or something new.

 

Loft A - No, nothing like this will not happen.

 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Jaws2002

[Jason_Williams]

We've already established a way to go around the unlocks if you hate them for this product and future products. Arguing about Loft's opinion about the unlocks is pointless. We've addressed the issue and offered a solution. Our next product will have the same format as BOS.

 

Jason