Is it just me or are they tweaking the campaign actively ? (Which is a good thing.)

[virgil_182]

  I have been flying ground attack missions in the IL2 and the gameplay feels more alive, more logical, and less controlled by a scripted AI than any other campaign, in any previous flight sim, I've ever played, including the original IL2 1946. At their best the campaigns in IL2 1946, and IL2 CLOD both felt stilted and scripted because of the AI, which never seemed to feel like real pilots. Whatever they've done with IL2 BOS, even if it is smoke and mirrors, I haven't seen through the curtain to an immersion ruining, hugely obvious, idiot AI stunt yet.  I hope it keeps up, and even improves. For the first time, the IL2 single player experience feels fleshed out and worth playing to me.

 

I've read more than a few posts complaining that the campaign missions are sterile, and empty. Flying the campaign the last few days however, it doesn't seem like that at all to me. I see activity everywhere, obvious ground battles at locales distant from Stalingrad, aircraft crossing the sky (who knows, enemy, or friendly.. I fly in expert mode so no icons.)

 

It just might be that the campaign generator needing an active internet connection is a very good thing. Without having to wait for patches, or core game engine changes, they can add things to the campaign, respond to player feedback very quickly. I wonder if this is what is happening ?

 

Regardless, I am happy to say the campaign I have been flying is nothing as sterile and empty as I've seen complaints of. Perhaps it's just me, the excitement and newness of a pretty amazing combat flight sim. Either way it feels good. I am really enjoying this thing. Got shot down today on a ground attack mission by a 109 I never even bothered looking for (Bad S.A, I know.) because for the prior 4 or 5 missions my air cover had been doing their job so well. I suppose the massively busy radio chatter indicating a heated furball going on in my vicinity should have heightened my S.A a little. Right before I plowed my crate into a barely successful emergency landing I noticed the 109 was smoking as well..... Which means he probably ruined one or more of my escorts evening before then ruining mine.

Edited January 31, 2015 by virgil_182

[BlitzPig_EL]

Can you please send me a copy of your install because my campaign is as predictble as the sunrise.

 

The only variable is if my oh so talented wingman/men crash on takeoff (about every other mission or so), leaving me to face the three Heinkels (or Stukas) and their 4 109 F4s (or two G2s) alone, well, sort of alone as it seems they are very frequently next to one of their bases.

 

Just what I'm seeing in my "campaign".

 

Hopefully on Monday this will change, and they will bag this whole terrible unlock nonsense and we can get on with a proper development cycle.

[virgil_182]

Ha.  Yeah, I do worry a little bit that it is so exciting now for me only because it's new.

 

It looks gorgeous, it feels immersive, but I've only had enough hours to see the shine.

 

Maybe I'll get lucky and my timing was good. Sounds like there is a big update just around the corner, and by the time I start to notice the cracks they'll be patched.

 

Until then, I'm enjoying the campaign. The sensation of being there is still fresh, I'll take it while it lasts.

[LLv24_Zami]

I was thinking the same thing when I started new Il-2 campaign couple days ago. I`m going to fly 6 missions in every chapter and just moved to second phase.

I think the missions have improved from the last time I played. Well anyways, it has been fun strafing ground targets again

 

Ground attack AI needs further tweaking too. Wingmen are very reluctant to actually attack enemy. If there is enemy CAP in target area, they wont never attack.

No enemy CAP and they do attack occasionally but even then usually only once. I had 3 wingmen in last mission and just one of them dropped single bomb, others just flew around ignoring all orders.

Everybody was loaded with two Fab-250 bombs. No enemy planes anywhere.

 

 

 

[216th_Jordan]

I think the very environment that is around in the mission is excellent, just the mission on its own is rather boring (objectives, waypoints...) and repetitive.

[Sim]

To be honest, I really really doubt the campaign missions are actually generated on the server. All the mission templates/data for the single player campaign are available with your local install. Someone should do a network test and see if the _gen.Mission mission is actually transferred from the servers (pretty sure it's not..). I think the server-generated missions were in the initial plan, but then were dropped at some point (including other campaign features - such as historical units/regiments).

[Porkman]

IMO the campaign seemed to improve as pilot level increased. For me there is so much more happening on the map during missions now at pilot level 9 than at earlier pilot levels. Noticeably more ground units on map, encountering more and bigger AI flights and AI skirmishes, more general ground fighting effects (shooting, bombs exploding) and it has definitely been less boring and pretty challenging dealing with sniper AA/flak and tail gunners. I was actually thinking something similar, was there a update I missed? But now I think it's more to do with pilot level?

[voncrapenhauser]

IMO the campaign seemed to improve as pilot level increased.

 

Definitely the last section of campaign has more action in it.

I am flying the last HE111 missions at the moment and its hard to survive the bomb run there's so many fighters around on this section.

 

Just the last HE111 and Lagg 5 missions to go.

Edited February 1, 2015 by voncrapenhauser

[SharpeXB]

wingman/men crash on takeoff (about every other mission or so), .

.

I think if you take off straight and correct on full throttle they won't crash. If you falter or swerve they crash trying to miss you. I think the AI just guns their throttle as soon as you start rolling so you need to do likewise.

[TheElf]

I don't think they are tweaking it actively.  That would require a push of data on the installer which I have not seen since the last update some weeks ago.  I HAVE seen the missions in the campaign change as I gained EXP.  For instance most flisght were go to this check point, then go to this mission area, shoot down this or that.  Then one day around level 7 I got a mission where I couldn't modify my plane or change the fuel setting so I hit START and was in the middle of an attack on my Airfield!  It was a scramble!  Lots of fun.  

 

I've also begun to have random encounter, which I like, between my checkpoints, and mission areas, sometimes I am in a position to engage and get extra kills, at others I have to run and hope for the best.  In any case I think there is a gradual increase in complexity to the missions, with a little variety sprinkled in.

 

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has seen major changes past level 7?

[No601_Swallow]

I haven't played the campaign for a few weeks (due to the usual factors of finishing the fifth chapter, getting the unlocks I wanted, feeling things a bit repetitive, etc) but I've generally enjoyed them. This thread makes me want to give the campaign a second visit.

 

I've often thought - well, hoped - that there's more to the campaign and its mission generator than meets the eye. I do hope they continue to work on it, and if the generation of missions can be tweaked independant of game updates, that'd be a rather cool thing, I think.

[ShamrockOneFive]

It does feel like it's been expanded a bit. I wish there were more mission types and that AI bombing and attack missions were better but it's coming along.

Escorting IL-2s is still very very bad... they just circle the target and get shot down.

[Mugwump]

There's a campaign?

[Feathered_IV]

Random mission generator.

[ShamrockOneFive]

What I don't understand is why I sometimes get sent out on bomber hunting missions on my own. It made for an exciting mission but I would have loved to at least have a wingman.

[Y-29.Silky]

The unbearable boredom of the predictability in the BoS campaign makes me nauseous.

 

The 1946 campaign is hands down, the best, most immersive, and most unpredictable WWII campaign. There's about 15-30 aircraft flying at once in each mission doing their own thing, 50 ground units, and no random airfields right under the non-existent "Exit Points"..

[LLv24_Zami]

Expanded or not, still missions give nice surprises sometimes.

I was in chapter three flying Il-2 mission, lots of action between base and target area. Evening mission so front looked really good guns flashing and tracers flying.

Biggest surprise was when I landed and was taxiing for parking. Search lights suddenly came on and AA guns started firing. Same time I saw heavy explosions on the runway. There were flight of He-111 attacking my base

I dont recall seeing that before.

[Y-29.Silky]

Expanded or not, still missions give nice surprises sometimes.

I was in chapter three flying Il-2 mission, lots of action between base and target area. Evening mission so front looked really good guns flashing and tracers flying.

Biggest surprise was when I landed and was taxiing for parking. Search lights suddenly came on and AA guns started firing. Same time I saw heavy explosions on the runway. There were flight of He-111 attacking my base

I dont recall seeing that before.

I never seen that before, I quit trying to land after I'd botch it and lose all my points. With that said, if those HE-111's killed your pilot after you parked, you'd lose all your xp for that mission. In my eyes, that's purely scripted. It's like they purposely throw in a left hook at the exit point and landing just to make a challenge.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Silky

[LLv24_Zami]

I never seen that before, I quit trying to land after I'd botch it and lose all my points. With that said, if those HE-111's killed your pilot after you parked, you'd lose all your xp for that mission. In my eyes, that's purely scripted. It's like they purposely throw in a left hook at the exit point and landing just to make a challenge.

 

Nope, they didnt kill me. I was not on runway anymore when they attacked. Scripted or not but it did give a nice flavour IMO. More of these kind of suprises are more than welcome!

 

I dont care my xp points anymore, believe or not I`m playing campaign for fun

[Y-29.Silky]

I dont care my xp points anymore, believe or not I`m playing campaign for fun

I wish I could do that, but the immersion just isn't there for me. Until then, I have to stick to 1946. I started a campaign with the southern group at Stalingrad in a 190 to see how it compares with this game just for shits and giggles. 3rd mission in I was attacking a formation of Li-2's who were on a supply run, I actually didn't know Li-2's had a rear gunner so I was attacking them carelessly, and my pilot was wounded. I was able to make it home and land but sadly I ended up missing the rest of the battle to recover and returned to my unit in the 2nd Kuban theatre with many new faces in the squadron.

 

Lord knows when this will ever come to BoS :/

[LLv24_Zami]

Lord knows when this will ever come to BoS :/

 

Lets pray that eventually BoS will have proper campaign too.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I wish I could do that, but the immersion just isn't there for me. Until then, I have to stick to 1946. I started a campaign with the southern group at Stalingrad in a 190 to see how it compares with this game just for shits and giggles. 3rd mission in I was attacking a formation of Li-2's who were on a supply run, I actually didn't know Li-2's had a rear gunner so I was attacking them carelessly, and my pilot was wounded. I was able to make it home and land but sadly I ended up missing the rest of the battle to recover and returned to my unit in the 2nd Kuban theatre with many new faces in the squadron.

 

Lord knows when this will ever come to BoS :/

 

The Li-2, the Kuban battle, or the faces in the squadron?

 

Early IL-2 Sturmovik was pretty limited as well and I think we have to wait and see what they have planned for the future. I'm hoping they aim for big things but those big things need to also be achievable too and I suspect we'll still see slightly more focused releases around a singular battle (Kursk, or Kuban or Finnish Gulf, etc.).

[D_Konig]

If they can get a campaign generator together like old il2 id be over the moon

[Feathered_IV]

Better than the old il-2 hopefully. I was sick of that by 2007.

[voncrapenhauser]

Expanded or not, still missions give nice surprises sometimes.

I was in chapter three flying Il-2 mission, lots of action between base and target area. Evening mission so front looked really good guns flashing and tracers flying.

Biggest surprise was when I landed and was taxiing for parking. Search lights suddenly came on and AA guns started firing. Same time I saw heavy explosions on the runway. There were flight of He-111 attacking my base

I dont recall seeing that before.

I had that one time too, cool but never had it since.

Lets pray that eventually BoS will have proper campaign too.

+1

[Bearcat]

Better than the old il-2 hopefully. I was sick of that by 2007.

You talking DGen or Lowengren's DcG? I thought the DCg was an improvement over dGen.

[virgil_182]

Thinking about the introduction of the JU52 makes me see more clearly the concerns here.

 

Air bridge supply schedules would necessarily be of the highest order of secrecy. Missions to intercept them would be long, wide, patrols in the hopes of catching a cargo transport and dealing a blow to the german war machine. I worry, however, that the mission generator as it seems currently will give you a series of waypoints, at the end of which will be a JU conveniently ready to be shot down, every time.

 

Here's hoping they offer an option to eliminate the computer precise waypoints and unit placement and make missions like these as uncertain as they should be.

[D_Konig]

Did the Russians not have radar or any equivalent intel to intercept/scramble aircraft on short notice similar to the british system in 1940?

[33lima]

Did the Russians not have radar or any equivalent intel to intercept/scramble aircraft on short notice similar to the british system in 1940?

 

I think the point here is that neither side had a defensive setup like RAF Fighter Command by 1940. Never mind anything else, the front was much too fluid.

 

Intercepts should be limited to what observers at or behind your own front lines could see, perhaps supplemented by the occasional radar or sound location set. Intercepts in BoS should be 'scrambles' against raids that are in the act of penetrating your airspace, not as now, against (much too small) raids that your side has apparently seen coming from miles away inside enemy territory. Or perhaps should be described, treated and flown as standing patrols, to protect a given area of airspace ('Ground Support' missions may be like this, from what the devs have said).

 

Intercept missions are one of the weakest points of the current BoS campaign, IMHO. Bomber formations are way too small (apart from the odd aircraft on a weather, photo or visual recce) - double what they are now, would be a sensible minimum, keep the escort small or add a second intercepting flight if needed to give some sort of balance - and they are 'seen coming' while still too far away.

Edited February 3, 2015 by 33lima

[Sokol1]

I look at this campaign system as "improved" QMB.

 

An be done short missions, expert mode, in two weeks of play I unlock weapons for IL-2, Pe-2, Ju-87, He 111, LaGG-3, Yak-1 and half for Bf 109F.

 

The most "profitable" missions are ground attack  - for He 111 cancel artillery and supply dump attacks because sometimes is need strafe these targets, they only blow up with direct hit.

 

I end the missions in "exit point", in the time that you go for landing you do another short mission. 

 

After "unlock" all phases, the one that have short distances missions is the "Air Bridge".

[D_Konig]

Some intercept missions for me are hit or miss. Sometimes i get there and its one lone bomber (really?!) And others theres 8 bombers with fighter escort.

 

But yeah, theyre spotted literallt 10km away by my wingmen with mutant eyeballs somehow as well.

 

Scramble missions would be cool.

[Feathered_IV]

You talking DGen or Lowengren's DcG? I thought the DCg was an improvement over dGen.

 

Kind of both really.  Plus the static user-made campaigns.  Without triggers and such the formations were just set to blunder into one another.  Actions did not have consequences of any weight.  Mission debriefings were particularly poor.  Lots of things made the campaign experience of the Il-2 series more the baseline for what a game should achieve, but definitely not the pinacle if you know what I mean.  I never felt that there was anyone in the Il-2 campaigns but me.  Never felt like I was part of a unit or that I'd "met" any of the AI companions.

[unreasonable]

My own experience of DCG was that you could get personality into it but you had to do a bit of work.

 

I set up my own "Barbarossa" campaign over 4 maps, flying for Stab 1/JG3 (love them wurms), only maximum 4 planes in a Stabschwarm at any given time.

 

DCG allowed you to assign squadron skins with default or modded numbers, or even better individual custom skins to named AI pilots (with a bit of tweaking). 1/JG3 had marvelously varied skins, so you could immediately make out your wingmens' identities. I usually set my player flight to 2 aircraft, and you either fly as wingman or leader. Doing it this way your AI tended to live longer, since they avoided the silly landing circuit crashes that plagued IL2 1946. The rest of the AI flights went about their business and you could follow along and join in or not at your discretion. You might see them at any time or not at all.

 

With a two aircraft flight and some practice, rudimentary team tactics were possible, even if it was just done by using the "help" order. You could get your wingmen up to some respectable kill scores by tactically sensible flying.

 

Sadly none of this is yet possible in BoS. Given time, perhaps, provided the new game design mechanics do not prevent it.

[No601_Swallow]

Kind of both really.  Plus the static user-made campaigns.  Without triggers and such the formations were just set to blunder into one another.  Actions did not have consequences of any weight.  Mission debriefings were particularly poor.  Lots of things made the campaign experience of the Il-2 series more the baseline for what a game should achieve, but definitely not the pinacle if you know what I mean.  I never felt that there was anyone in the Il-2 campaigns but me.  Never felt like I was part of a unit or that I'd "met" any of the AI companions.

 

This was my experience in IL2 SP as well. The world felt flat and empty. By comparison, BoS seems teeming to me, and the people complaining about the "empty" world of the BoS campaign must have short memories. And the lack of triggers and "advanced tools" in the FMB meant that mission building was a real real art, whether SP or coop. Basic missions were very easy to make, but surprising or immersive missions were difficult to achieve.

 

Thank goodness of squadrons and online camaraderie. My main worry about BoS is that my squadron mates will give up waiting for the MP support (AKA mission builder and hosting capabilities) that we all want!

[Porkman]

 

 

I've also begun to have random encounter, which I like, between my checkpoints, and mission areas, sometimes I am in a position to engage and get extra kills, at others I have to run and hope for the best.  In any case I think there is a gradual increase in complexity to the missions, with a little variety sprinkled in.   I would be interested to hear if anyone else has seen major changes past level 7?

 

From what I have seen in my campaign the amount of action, random encounters, effects and general activity during missions started to ramp up at pilot level 7.  At level 9 the amount of action during missions drastically increased for me, regardless of which chapter I chose to fly in.  There are still occasional boring missions that pop in, but for the most part missions have become way more interesting and challenging.  It leads me to believe it is all tied to Pilot level, and makes me wonder how many people that have complained about boring missions and nothing happening are just giving up on the campaign too early.  I do agree that before level 7 the missions got repetitive and stale pretty quickly, but after 7, and especially at level 9, I have noticed a huge difference.  I hope the game is not losing players due to the average "gamer" being either too impatient or not skilled enough to reach the highest levels and see the real potential of BOS and fear that many "average gamers" will simply abandon the game too early and write it off as being a crap game or too hard, but never even see the full potential.

 

I would now like to share my latest mission, because it was one of the most intense flights I have had with this game to date and am curious if others have ever had this much action during a mission.  To set it all up, I was playing on normal, full hud and icons, pilot level 9, campaign complete, all airfields unlocked, ultra graphics setting.  I decide to fly a full 35km escort mission in Chapter 2 (forget exactly which airfield I chose) flying the LA5 just to unlock the last skin.

 

Mission start from runway, I have a single wingman, we take off and form up with 5 IL2s to escort them at 500 km for ground attack.  We get on route and start flying towards first waypoint, I start cruising about 1 k ahead of IL2s doing their speed and at about 650 km altitude.  1/2 way to the waypoint and we come across a 3v3 skirmish high above us, about 5k away and a few k to the NW of our route.  I climb to 1500 km, think about engaging, but they are still at least another 1500km above me and I decide it is best to stick with the IL2s and continue with mission.  I watch 1 or 2 planes get shot down during that skirmish, and continue on route.  We are now just after waypoint and a 4 flight of returning friendlies happens to fly right into the skirmish at same altitude and shoots remaining enemies down.  A minute later there appears a 6 flight of enemies dead ahead at same altitude and heading right at us, but as soon as i spot them they happen to do a 180 and fly back to their lines.  1 plane, however, breaks away from formation and starts flying SW while rest of flight continues W.  I setup to engage the lone G2 when I notice another 4 flight to the SE about 6 k away and unknown identity but not really a factor so I continue after the G2 and shoot it down fairly quickly once getting in range.  I am a few k off course and about 6k behind the IL2s who are now nearing the action point.  I pull the big map up and my jaw drops as I see about 8-10 planes ahead of my IL2s, 6 just S of action point and 4 or 5 a few k N of action point.  I push my plane hard trying to catch up, knowing that if my IL2s do not complete task I will get no points other than the G2 kill...

 

I watch from a few k away as the 6 F4s down 3 of my IL2s in the first head on, then the 4th on the next pass.  I fly right into the middle of the madness trying to lure all enemies to me and my wingman, and end up on 1 of the F4s tail after a few highspeed turns.  I am trying to line up a shot when he starts turning hard and I decide not to risk losing my speed by following, so I break off and try to locate the other enemies.  I hear my remaining IL2 call that he is returning to base, and I turn to see that he is smoking, and watch him get shot down a few seconds later.  Since at that point I knew the mission was a failure, I paused game for a moment and pulled up map.  There were the 6 F4s all around me and my wingman and a still unknown but presumed enemy flight of 4 or 5 to the N about 6.5k away just circling...  

 

I figure why not play this out and see what happens, its been a super interesting mission so far, I don't really need the XP anymore so let me see if I can make it home and maybe shoot down another plane in the process for the fun of it.  I unpause, and decide the first thing to do is get separation from all enemies so I do some aggressive flying and evading and end up flying towards my home base with my wingman about 2k behind me trailing light smoke.  1 k behind him is an enemy in pursuit and a second enemy is about 5 k behind that one.  I am thinking oh well there goes my wingman he is about to get shot down, but at least it will buy me more separation.  Instead, surprisingly, the enemy does not attack my wingman, it seems he is somehow locked onto me instead of my wingman and just parallels him like he doesn't even know he is there.  Eventually the enemy overtakes my wingman and finally my wingman engages him and he turns for home.  I call my wingman to form back up and surprisingly he actually does.  The first enemy is no longer a factor but the second enemy plane has now caught up a little and is now about 3k behind my wingman who is now about 3k behind me.  I am about 11 k from home base so I let the enemy follow us, and decide to wait to engage him until he makes it into the cover of our AA and flak.  We get above home field and I start maneuvering to get on the enemies 6.  Flak starts exploding all around him and AA tracers firing.  I get to his 6 and just before shooting range he starts hard turning to the right and I just can't stay with the F4 so I disengage and setup another attack.  I am shocked that he has not picked up a scratch from ground fire yet because it has been all around us.  Somehow while I am getting back into firing range he manages to get on my wingman and shoots him down.  I am so pissed at my wingman for getting himself shot down, lol, I really wanted him to survive the 6 F4 vs 2 LA5 craziness that just happened, but instead he gets shot down by a single one over our own home with flak and AA raging everywhere.  Very depressing....but anyway the enemy plane somehow still does not have scratch.  I finally get to the edge of gun range while we are in a medium turn, I take a few quick ranging shots but don't connect and he goes into hard turn again.  I stay with him better this time and watch him finally get clipped by 2 ground fire shots.  I am right on the edge of stall trying to pull lead while he is turning hard, manage to get a quick shot off, then another, but I highly doubt that I connected, and he finally gets brought down by ground fire as I am still on his 6.  No second kill for me, oh well, all that is left to do is land.  I get it down pretty cleanly, barely a bounce, but end up ground looping at the end of roll out, no damage though.  I hit cancel mission once stopped and took my 12 XP for 1 light plane kill away from my very interesting 23 min. flight.

 

To sum it up I came across 28-30 planes within a 35 km mission.  I don't think I ever once ran into a random flight before pilot level 5 or 6.  I will say it again that I really believe the campaign gets decent at pilot level 7 and gets pretty intense at pilot level 9.  I am interested to hear other people's experiences are similar to what I have noticed or different.  I would also recommend people to not write off the campaign until they have hit pilot level 7 or ideally 8.  I wonder how many negative reviewers never made it past pilot level 5 before judging the campaign or the whole game itself.....

[LLv24_Zami]

From what I have seen in my campaign the amount of action, random encounters, effects and general activity during missions started to ramp up at pilot level 7.  At level 9 the amount of action during missions drastically increased for me, regardless of which chapter I chose to fly in.  There are still occasional boring missions that pop in, but for the most part missions have become way more interesting and challenging.  It leads me to believe it is all tied to Pilot level, and makes me wonder how many people that have complained about boring missions and nothing happening are just giving up on the campaign too early.  I do agree that before level 7 the missions got repetitive and stale pretty quickly, but after 7, and especially at level 9, I have noticed a huge difference.  I hope the game is not losing players due to the average "gamer" being either too impatient or not skilled enough to reach the highest levels and see the real potential of BOS and fear that many "average gamers" will simply abandon the game too early and write it off as being a crap game or too hard, but never even see the full potential.

 

 

I am beginning to agree with you on this one. I just recently raised to level 8 and started really notice a lot more activity on missions. More planes in air and more ground units also.

At the frontlines there are fierce battles going on, really feels like a war. Missions are much more interesting now. I had even my home base bombed twice by germans after the level rose to eight. Of course there is some variation between missions but generally its been noticiable.

Maybe pilot level affects enemy AI level also, hard to say.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Not sure how the pilot level affects things but yes my mission activity has increased a fair bit in some missions.

 

The only disappointing missions for me right now are the bombing ones. Still can't get the AI to do anything useful. I have to shoot up and/or bomb everything and the AI Pe-2s don't know how to dive bomb in these situations.

[216th_Jordan]

Any change noticed in the recent weeks? I had 4 wingmen on my last intercept mission in La-5 which I found out to be something 'new'. I might be wrong though. lets see what the other missions will bring.

 

what are your observations now?